Driver Evaluations for a new project

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  • Evil Twin
    Super Senior Member
    • Nov 2004
    • 1531

    I have an update from Claus Neesgaard- I do find him quite transparent and pleasant to work with.

    Their manufacturing schedule has been delayed due to the impact of the coronavirus situation in China with regards to a sub supplier for magnets, with an extended factory shutdowns after CNY (no, not CSNY).

    However, things appear to be getting back on track and it is expected that there will be a courier pickup next Wednesday on February 26, instead of the originally scheduled ship date of Valentines Day.


    This will delay the timing of completing tests on the PuriFi mid woofers, and the development build for the NatalieP Redux, but it should not be a large impact, as there is much work in process and shifting to other tasks will fill the gap...
    DFAL
    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

    Comment

    • Evil Twin
      Super Senior Member
      • Nov 2004
      • 1531

      Up next... or soon.

      Other events are unfolding as I have foreseen...


      The ImpEx shipping priority service has come through, and I shall soon be able to make some interesting test comparisons...



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      Are six mounting holes truly superior to just four? Soon we shall have the answer to this and other vexing questions...
      DFAL
      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

      Comment

      • Bear
        Super Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 1038

        Originally posted by Evil Twin
        Other events are unfolding as I have foreseen...


        The ImpEx shipping priority service has come through, and I shall soon be able to make some interesting test comparisons...



        [ATTACH=CONFIG]30011[/ATTACH]


        Are six mounting holes truly superior to just four? Soon we shall have the answer to this and other vexing questions...
        Is that the Dayton tweeter or the TW29DN in the waveguide on the right? I'm willing to bet, though, that if you happen to take it and knock it into a crossover configuration that works with the WO24P at about 1300 - 1500Hz, my wallet will thank you.

        (Otherwise, the WO24P woofers arrived today, and I'll order tweeters next week....)
        Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

        Comment

        • ergo
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 675

          Originally posted by Evil Twin
          Are six mounting holes truly superior to just four? Soon we shall have the answer to this and other vexing questions...
          Depending how stiff the plastic is 6 holes might be better. I used 4 for the 3D printed DIY I desin for the OLA project but then later did see that 6 would ensure better fit of the whole circle when it need to push down on casket. So next time I would be using 6 also.

          Comment

          • dwk
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2005
            • 251

            Originally posted by Bear
            Is that the Dayton tweeter or the TW29DN in the waveguide on the right? I'm willing to bet, though, that if you happen to take it and knock it into a crossover configuration that works with the WO24P at about 1300 - 1500Hz, my wallet will thank you.

            (Otherwise, the WO24P woofers arrived today, and I'll order tweeters next week....)
            Based on previous comments, I thought it was the Bliesma T34A in the Jantzen waveguide myself. It's getting hard to keep track.

            Comment

            • Evil Twin
              Super Senior Member
              • Nov 2004
              • 1531

              Originally posted by dwk
              Based on previous comments, I thought it was the Bliesma T34A in the Jantzen waveguide myself. It's getting hard to keep track.

              Yes, that is the BlieSMa T34A-4 with the Jantzen waveguide. I also have the T34B-4 on hand, but haven't taken any of them apart. I have a potential premise that if one handles the ultra sonic resonance wisely in the crossover network, one might find the sonic signatures to be quite comparable... a CSD plot may give further clues to examine.
              DFAL
              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

              Comment

              • Evil Twin
                Super Senior Member
                • Nov 2004
                • 1531

                Are six mounting holes truly superior to just four? Soon we shall have the answer to this and other vexing questions...

                Originally posted by ergo
                Depending how stiff the plastic is 6 holes might be better. I used 4 for the 3D printed DIY I desin for the OLA project but then later did see that 6 would ensure better fit of the whole circle when it need to push down on casket. So next time I would be using 6 also.

                And this is what happens when I make a struggling attempt at this thing your planet calls "humor".

                Now, the assembly with 6 holes is aluminum, probably machined, and it is quite stiff- of course, I'm sure six holes are reasonably sufficient for that.

                On the other hand, this could leave the Jantzen waveguide as somewhat "suspect" in construction, though adding additional holes would be a relatively trivial tasks.

                On the other hand, anyone who has worked with the Jantzen waveguides will know, that the POM ingots from which they are machined are very strong, very inert, and one might even go so far as to speculate that THREE holes might be sufficient- mechanically, it is the best solution I have examined as regards high mass and freedom from resonance in a waveguide.

                I shall have to do more reading and study of local psychology and determine whether it is possible for me to have some mastery of this concept, "humor", or whether it is simply a waste of my time and resources....

                In this case, I believe the crux of the matter will be determined by the excess spacing at the throat of the waveguide, and I can foresee potentially problematic issues with the SB Acoustics product due to the width of the surround and spacing of the dome edge from the throat.

                But, while in the Emperor we are commanded to trust, all others we must verify.
                DFAL
                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                Comment

                • Bear
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 1038

                  Originally posted by Evil Twin
                  Yes, that is the BlieSMa T34A-4 with the Jantzen waveguide. I also have the T34B-4 on hand, but haven't taken any of them apart. I have a potential premise that if one handles the ultra sonic resonance wisely in the crossover network, one might find the sonic signatures to be quite comparable... a CSD plot may give further clues to examine.
                  Is that the Jantzen WG that they are currently distributing that's notionally for the new big SEAS T35C002? The good folks have both the T34A and the WG at a much better price than Be Satori, and I'm also willing to bet that it's higher performing.
                  Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                  Comment

                  • Evil Twin
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 1531

                    Originally posted by Bear
                    Is that the Dayton tweeter or the TW29DN in the waveguide on the right? I'm willing to bet, though, that if you happen to take it and knock it into a crossover configuration that works with the WO24P at about 1300 - 1500Hz, my wallet will thank you.

                    (Otherwise, the WO24P woofers arrived today, and I'll order tweeters next week....)
                    I do have the current Dayton tweeters, and have tested them in larger custom built SMJ waveguides.

                    Testing this configuration should be feasible, though my intuition (and previous testing of those tweeters) indicates you may not be thrilled with the results.

                    However, hard data is worth far more than speculation....
                    DFAL
                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                    Comment

                    • Evil Twin
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 1531

                      Originally posted by Bear
                      Is that the Jantzen WG that they are currently distributing that's notionally for the new big SEAS T35C002? The good folks have both the T34A and the WG at a much better price than Be Satori, and I'm also willing to bet that it's higher performing.
                      Yes, and the only difference between it and the nominal Audax version is where the holes are threaded on the backside for mounting the tweeter. I have both on hand...

                      Hint: the most convenient vendor for these parts is HiFi Collective in the UK.

                      Mine have either come from them or Jantzen direct.
                      DFAL
                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                      Comment

                      • Steve Manning
                        Moderator
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 1879

                        Come now, must I remind everyone that using the force is the best method and as such no screw holes are required. 8)


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                        Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                        WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                        Comment

                        • Evil Twin
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 1531

                          Originally posted by Steve Manning
                          Come now, must I remind everyone that using the force is the best method and as such no screw holes are required. 8)


                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]30013[/ATTACH]
                          Not everyone has arrived at such an advanced state of fabrication and manufacturing prowess... we must accommodate the limitations of more conventional DIY constructors from time to time... such as myself....


                          Unfortunately, the advanced capabilities of SMJ corporate headquarters are not available at the satellite engineering development facility.
                          DFAL
                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                          Comment

                          • Evil Twin
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 1531

                            Many things are possible; not all things are desirable.

                            Originally posted by Bear
                            Is that the Dayton tweeter or the TW29DN in the waveguide on the right? I'm willing to bet, though, that if you happen to take it and knock it into a crossover configuration that works with the WO24P at about 1300 - 1500Hz, my wallet will thank you.

                            (Otherwise, the WO24P woofers arrived today, and I'll order tweeters next week....)


                            Do pray you can delay ordering tweeters until some investigations are complete- Injuries sustained fighting with packaging for a new testing system may delay matters a few days...


                            But should you be curious about the possibilities which can be examined....


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                            DFAL
                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                            Comment

                            • Evil Twin
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 1531

                              I will endeavor to prepare test baffle and waveguide this weekend to accommodate at least part of your curiosity...
                              DFAL
                              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                              Comment

                              • Bear
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 1038

                                Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                I will endeavor to prepare test baffle and waveguide this weekend to accommodate at least part of your curiosity...
                                Your Lordship need not rush on my account. I went ahead and pulled the proverbial blaster trigger. I need to build something, and there's always version 2.0... It should not be hard to beat the value proposition for the Helios, but it's at least a completed design which I can build and be settled before focusing on finding a house. If anyone is interested in SW223s, I also put up my FS thread over at DIYA.
                                Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                Comment

                                • Evil Twin
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2004
                                  • 1531

                                  You have chosen your path- but there should still be some new data soon...
                                  DFAL
                                  Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                  A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                  Comment

                                  • Bear
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Dec 2008
                                    • 1038

                                    Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                    You have chosen your path- but there should still be some new data soon...
                                    If you have the patience, it might also be good to test some of the other Satori tweeters in your various tweeter squadrons to test for compatibility. Your own tests indicated that the TW29dn performed as well or better as the Be version, so it would be interesting to see if it, too, fit the new waveguide.

                                    One quick edit: this will unfold over the next several months for me, and Madisound does have a 45 day return policy.
                                    Last edited by Bear; 23 February 2020, 16:48 Sunday.
                                    Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                    Comment

                                    • Evil Twin
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2004
                                      • 1531

                                      Combining measurements on new components with revising the test system is a recipe for additional work...


                                      Especially when some correlation checks reveal anomalous level sensitive behavior for measured distortion that is not particularly realistic...

                                      Disappointing, but then too, it is a different and untried brand of audio interface. This may necessitate finding a way to mate tried and true Firewire to Thunderbolt 3, or go back to living with lower resolution displays...


                                      However, a few data points can be shared with some confidence, such as this polar plot for the Satori DW29B-WG tweeter from 0 to 60 degrees...


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                                      OR this accurate but misleading measurement of the T34A tweeter in a Jantzen waveguide at 40 degrees off axis- like an optimal photograph, just the right angle to bring out the best appearance...


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                                      But we are not engaged in fashion photography,
                                      and this is not representative of the overall reality.


                                      The polar plot of the Satori waveguide tweeter reveals an unfortunate tendency to roll off the top end further off axis, similar to a Faital LTH142 Waveguide, from which I expected performance similar to an EighteenSound XT1464, but was not rewarded with that behavior. I would have been very happy if it the Satori waveguide was comparable to the Dayton RS28a with a custom wood waveguide constructed for me by Steve Manning, but that was not to be either. However, it should still provide good performance in many situations, but until I have reviewed the interface electronics and possible regressed to the previous ones, I will not show distortion plots. There was some very anomalous level sensitive changes in behavior, with small changes resulting in unusually large measured differences. This is not been seen before...

                                      The BlieSMa tweeter displays typical issues on axis with reflections causing deep in the response around 10kHz. It is easy to understand why Ergo with his custom matched waveguides still prefers to use 10 degrees as the design axis- I have seen this behavior with many experimental configurations for the DA25.

                                      However, if one wishes to listen primarily off axis, then there is little faulting the result at 40 degrees...
                                      DFAL
                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                      Comment

                                      • Bear
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 1038

                                        Interesting. Given the Helios measurements, I would have expected a noticeable valley in the Satori in the 15k - 17k range. As always, this is most informative.
                                        Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                        Comment

                                        • Evil Twin
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2004
                                          • 1531

                                          Originally posted by Bear
                                          Interesting. Given the Helios measurements, I would have expected a noticeable valley in the Satori in the 15k - 17k range. As always, this is most informative.
                                          I did too. Maybe there has been a tweak to the design. There is a dip in the 17-20kHz area for 0 degrees and 10 degrees, but it is milder than what I’ve seen in published Helios curves. This part of the data I have high confidence in, as the microphone and front end preamp buffer are the same, and as always, I’m measuring out to 40kHz.

                                          With the “ideal” waveguide behavior there is a consistent and similar drop off across the span as you go off axis. So, things may be down, say, 6 dB at 40 degrees, both at, say, 3 kHz and 15kHz. I have seen and measured behavior like that with some configurations in the past, and they sound quite good. This is not the case here for this SB product.

                                          Again, it’s kind of like comparing a specific 18Sound elliptical horn/waveguide to a similar Faital model- they look similar in design and construction, but they do not perform the same.
                                          DFAL
                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                          Comment

                                          • Bear
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Dec 2008
                                            • 1038

                                            Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                            With the “ideal” waveguide behavior there is a consistent and similar drop off across the span as you go off axis. So, things may be down, say, 6 dB at 40 degrees, both at, say, 3 kHz and 15kHz. I have seen and measured behavior like that with some configurations in the past, and they sound quite good. This is not the case here for this SB product.
                                            If I remember some of Brandon's measurements, and the ABEC modeling that was being done in parallel, this was often where some throat reflections showed up. The off-axis differences may be due to path differences where reinforcement is happening, rather than cancellation.
                                            Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                            Comment

                                            • Evil Twin
                                              Super Senior Member
                                              • Nov 2004
                                              • 1531

                                              This is one possible explanation- another seems to me that some horns/waveguides have effective coupling at the throat and a clean expansion over a wide frequency range- while others of very similar overall construction do not.


                                              An example would be comparing the Faital LTH142 to the EighteenSound XT1464, which appear quite similar on the surface. The vertical and horizontal polar maps tell a different story, though, as well as my own basic measurements.


                                              Here, the LTH142 with the B&C DE990TN, measured from 0 degrees to 50 degrees off axis horizontally....


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                                              Even with the much more conventional and (cheaper) B&C ME90 horn, the performance is quite different...

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                                              And in my opinion far more usable, as once the waveguide characteristics is eq'd flat in the crossover, the net response characteristics will be consistent in response shape over a moderately wide area, dropping in SPL somewhat to the side.
                                              DFAL
                                              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                              Comment

                                              • Evil Twin
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2004
                                                • 1531

                                                A somewhat different but similar test case, from data posted by Troels Gravesen and Kimmo Saunisto.


                                                XT1086 + NSD1095 "raw", not mounted on any baffle...


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                                                Mounted on baffle,


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                                                And polar set, with crossover for super tweeter...


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                                                The key point here is the relatively tight tracking of the response curves, especially in the upper frequency range.

                                                My own experiments suggest this combination will produce reasonably adequate results for my aging Sith ears, and with an exemplary off axis balance within a 5 dB window, and substantially tighter from 5kHz to 14kHz where many combinations of devices fall short...

                                                It is at the heart of another system planned around concepts similar to the Dutch+Dutch 8C, but without the digital nonsense and with a lower distortion driver set, albeit at larger size.


                                                Perhaps I should not mention that it is easy to purchase this driver and waveguide combination for about $300 total- I have several sets on hand.


                                                Oh, and that combination has some very interesting distortion characteristics as documented by Kimmo Saunisto (the VituixCAD Kimmo)


                                                equalized to crossover configuration, at 90 dB output, distortion is lower than -90 dB for HD3 and higher components.


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                                                DFAL
                                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                Comment

                                                • JonMarsh
                                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 15261

                                                  This discussion reminds me of the old Modula MT XE project, (set the wayback machine to 2009... much simpler times..)

                                                  And how much effort it took to sort out that build and mate the SS Discovery tweeter with a modified MCM wavguide...





                                                  But the balanced smooth response on and off axis made this a very pleasant and transparent system to listen to...


                                                  Not a very good example of in room measurement, or perhaps too typical an example, but the off axis behavior (on 15 degree increments) speaks for itself, as well as the seamless crossover behavior.





                                                  Distortion was also quite credible for that day and age... maybe even for this day and age!




                                                  My daughter's oldest Aunt was gifted with this orignal set; Cheryl died in a rafting accident on the Canadian North Slope three years ago. But she did really like these little speakers, with all kinds of program material.
                                                  Last edited by theSven; 23 May 2023, 21:27 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location
                                                  the AudioWorx
                                                  Natalie P
                                                  M8ta
                                                  Modula Neo DCC
                                                  Modula MT XE
                                                  Modula Xtreme
                                                  Isiris
                                                  Wavecor Ardent

                                                  SMJ
                                                  Minerva Monitor
                                                  Calliope
                                                  Ardent D

                                                  In Development...
                                                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                  Obi-Wan
                                                  Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                  Modula PWB
                                                  Calliope CC Supreme
                                                  Natalie P Ultra
                                                  Natalie P Supreme
                                                  Janus BP1 Sub


                                                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Bear
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Dec 2008
                                                    • 1038

                                                    Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                                    Perhaps I should not mention that it is easy to purchase this driver and waveguide combination for about $300 total- I have several sets on hand
                                                    Perhaps one should... :W (outside of FleaBay, I'm coming up dry for one-stop shopping)
                                                    Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Evil Twin
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 1531

                                                      More possibilities to evaluate

                                                      Some other investigations are reaching fruition...





                                                      This experiment seems to have some useful possibilities, such as a less than 5 dB spread in the 10-20kHz region between 10 degrees and 50 degrees of axis...

                                                      I feel confident that this may be due to the six mounting holes used in this German manufactured waveguide...


                                                      A first pass at Proof Of Concept crossover shows reasonable results...


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                                                      And the target mid woofers for the new design have arrived in house for evaluation and testing...


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                                                      I do not take the prospect of an update to the NatalieP design lightly...
                                                      Last edited by theSven; 23 May 2023, 21:31 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location
                                                      DFAL
                                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Evil Twin
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Nov 2004
                                                        • 1531

                                                        Distortion is quite acceptable

                                                        One point I forgot to bring up, in my haste to get back to productive activity, was the very low measured distortion of the tweeter/waveguide combination under 2.83 VRMS drive...


                                                        This is a factor in my motivation for working with this combination and sorting out an adequate crossover filter....

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                                                        DFAL
                                                        Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                        A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Bear
                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                          • Dec 2008
                                                          • 1038

                                                          Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                                          One point I forgot to bring up, in my haste to get back to productive activity, was the very low measured distortion of the tweeter/waveguide combination under 2.83 VRMS drive...


                                                          This is a factor in my motivation for working with this combination and sorting out an adequate crossover filter....
                                                          This is still the Bliesma T34A or did another candidate slip through the Imperial Blockade?
                                                          Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Evil Twin
                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                            • Nov 2004
                                                            • 1531

                                                            This is still the BlieSMa T34A, but there is another candidate which will be constructed and tested next week... a very natural evolution, the T34B, which is also on hand. This effort with the T34A constitutes more of a POC effort... not the final planned “deliverable”.
                                                            DFAL
                                                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                            Comment

                                                            • augerpro
                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                              • Aug 2006
                                                              • 1866

                                                              Is the Bliesma T25B on the Empire's radar? If so, I have a couple waveguide variants for it that are promising. Haven't got them from the printer yet, so ET would probably have results sooner if he printed them on his own. Throat diameter is smaller than the SB26, and so should have an even better top octave.
                                                              ~Brandon 8O
                                                              Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                              Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                              DriverVault
                                                              Soma Sonus

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Evil Twin
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Nov 2004
                                                                • 1531

                                                                The T25B is listed on Solen, but only for backorder- last time I checked.

                                                                I think it would be a good candidate for a three way, looking at it’s natural response profile.

                                                                Due to plans for the move to the outer rim late this year, and leaving Imperial employment, I must restrict myself to only two projects before tackling that task- completing the Ardent D design evaluation build (cabinet work is coming along well this weekend) and the NatalieP Update design study, which is also making progress- additional pin block maple ply (not to be confused with maple ply sold through conventional outlets) is now on order, and the cabinet concept and drivers are coming into clear focus...

                                                                The other key task in the near future is completing the midrange test enclosure for the Osiris, taking measurements, and preparing a crossover concept for Michael Bell.

                                                                Certainly I will follow with interest any updates you may be willing and able to share...
                                                                DFAL
                                                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                Comment

                                                                • augerpro
                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                  • Aug 2006
                                                                  • 1866

                                                                  FYI, the person I'm working with to design wg's for the Bleisma T25B just contacted me and said his are in shipment and he'll be shipping me a tweeter. Since DanP won't have my waveguides printed for another 2 months or so, I could ask them if they would mind me shipping the tweeter to Jon, if he is willing to have my designs printed and get some early results?
                                                                  ~Brandon 8O
                                                                  Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                                  Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                                  DriverVault
                                                                  Soma Sonus

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Evil Twin
                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                    • Nov 2004
                                                                    • 1531

                                                                    This would be very interesting IF I had the means to print the waveguides, but that is not possible- much of my equipment is already in storage in the Outer Rim, and mandated bionic hip upgrades and the necessary recovery period will be longer than what DanP can do for you...
                                                                    DFAL
                                                                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • morbo
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                                      • 152

                                                                      Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                                                      This would be very interesting IF I had the means to print the waveguides, but that is not possible- much of my equipment is already in storage in the Outer Rim, and mandated bionic hip upgrades and the necessary recovery period will be longer than what DanP can do for you...
                                                                      If it helps, I would be willing to SLA print a set of waveguides and have them sent on the next trade federation ship leaving the outer rim. My fabrication techniques and tolerances are not up to those of resin printing, but I have produced waveguides with sufficient resolution and smoothness for prototyping. With a bit of finishing work, they would probably be good enough for final product as well. Contributing to these ever-improving designs, which are so instrumental in keeping the galactic peace, would be the least I can do to show fealty to the Emperor.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • morbo
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Nov 2004
                                                                        • 152

                                                                        Originally posted by morbo
                                                                        If it helps, I would be willing to SLA print a set of waveguides and have them sent on the next trade federation ship leaving the outer rim. My fabrication techniques and tolerances are not up to those of resin printing, but I have produced waveguides with sufficient resolution and smoothness for prototyping. With a bit of finishing work, they would probably be good enough for final product as well. Contributing to these ever-improving designs, which are so instrumental in keeping the galactic peace, would be the least I can do to show fealty to the Emperor.
                                                                        This is not the best photo, and the guides are some of the first I printed, but gives an idea of the minimal quality level. With advancements in technique and machine tolerance, I can usually get substantially higher surface quality at .162mm layer height, but consider this a worst case.

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                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • JonMarsh
                                                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                                          • 15261

                                                                          I believe you and Augerpro need to talk...
                                                                          the AudioWorx
                                                                          Natalie P
                                                                          M8ta
                                                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                                                          Modula MT XE
                                                                          Modula Xtreme
                                                                          Isiris
                                                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                                                          SMJ
                                                                          Minerva Monitor
                                                                          Calliope
                                                                          Ardent D

                                                                          In Development...
                                                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                          Obi-Wan
                                                                          Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                          Modula PWB
                                                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • morbo
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Nov 2004
                                                                            • 152

                                                                            Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                                            I believe you and Augerpro need to talk...
                                                                            Indeed! If either of you need prototypes printed, please don't hesitate to drop me a line.

                                                                            Augerpro I'm a big fan of your work, as you can see at least one of the waveguides pictured above is your design. Let me know if I can be of assistance in further development, I think your open source waveguides are a great project and would enjoy giving something back to the group.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • JonMarsh
                                                                              Mad Max Moderator
                                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                                              • 15261

                                                                              Originally posted by augerpro
                                                                              FYI, the person I'm working with to design wg's for the Bleisma T25B just contacted me and said his are in shipment and he'll be shipping me a tweeter. Since DanP won't have my waveguides printed for another 2 months or so, I could ask them if they would mind me shipping the tweeter to Jon, if he is willing to have my designs printed and get some early results?

                                                                              Did you ever receive the T25B? Any thoughts on it if you did? (data would be even better than thoughts...

                                                                              Of course, these days almost nothing is going as planned...
                                                                              the AudioWorx
                                                                              Natalie P
                                                                              M8ta
                                                                              Modula Neo DCC
                                                                              Modula MT XE
                                                                              Modula Xtreme
                                                                              Isiris
                                                                              Wavecor Ardent

                                                                              SMJ
                                                                              Minerva Monitor
                                                                              Calliope
                                                                              Ardent D

                                                                              In Development...
                                                                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                              Obi-Wan
                                                                              Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                              Modula PWB
                                                                              Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                              Natalie P Ultra
                                                                              Natalie P Supreme
                                                                              Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • augerpro
                                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                                • Aug 2006
                                                                                • 1866

                                                                                I have it. Just waiting on the waveguides to be printed and sent to me, but who knows when that might be given "the situation".

                                                                                EDIT: switched jobs at a most inopportune time and got laid off. So I have time to finish a couple speaker projects and restart some experiments (box construction methods).
                                                                                Last edited by augerpro; 25 April 2020, 22:46 Saturday.
                                                                                ~Brandon 8O
                                                                                Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                                                Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                                                DriverVault
                                                                                Soma Sonus

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • dwk
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Apr 2005
                                                                                  • 251

                                                                                  Originally posted by Bear
                                                                                  Perhaps one should... :W (outside of FleaBay, I'm coming up dry for one-stop shopping)
                                                                                  Digging this back up as I stumbled across the reference again.



                                                                                  A tich under ET's claimed $300 price point, even.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • JonMarsh
                                                                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                                    • 15261

                                                                                    Originally posted by augerpro
                                                                                    I have it. Just waiting on the waveguides to be printed and sent to me, but who knows when that might be given "the situation".

                                                                                    EDIT: switched jobs at a most inopportune time and got laid off. So I have time to finish a couple speaker projects and restart some experiments (box construction methods).

                                                                                    When it rains it pours...

                                                                                    Good luck with a new job hunt!
                                                                                    the AudioWorx
                                                                                    Natalie P
                                                                                    M8ta
                                                                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                                                                    Modula MT XE
                                                                                    Modula Xtreme
                                                                                    Isiris
                                                                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                                                                    SMJ
                                                                                    Minerva Monitor
                                                                                    Calliope
                                                                                    Ardent D

                                                                                    In Development...
                                                                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                                    Obi-Wan
                                                                                    Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                                    Modula PWB
                                                                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                                                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                                                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • augerpro
                                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                                      • Aug 2006
                                                                                      • 1866

                                                                                      Yeah I'm in a good position to weather this for some time. Not much hiring in my field at the moment so I'm not going to stress out and panic move to another state just to find a job *right now*. Although if anyone has inside contacts at electrical generation plants in the Denver area for operator jobs, let me know! I'd like to move away from oil & gas and into power generation. O & G just getting too sketchy for me.

                                                                                      The upside is I have time for projects. 4 waveguides for the Bliesma T25B are being printed as we speak and should be here this week. I'm also going to build some cabinets today from different materials and use a small driver firing into the box to measure panel radiation and start quantifying the difference between materials.
                                                                                      ~Brandon 8O
                                                                                      Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                                                      Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                                                      DriverVault
                                                                                      Soma Sonus

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • JonMarsh
                                                                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                                        • 15261

                                                                                        Great that you're comfortable and have a clear upside for projects!

                                                                                        That's how I look at my downtime from the hip joint surgery- should be able to catch up on measurement and crossover construction, and also some system concept simulation and planning for CLASS D platform for PuriFi & Hypex.
                                                                                        the AudioWorx
                                                                                        Natalie P
                                                                                        M8ta
                                                                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                                                                        Modula MT XE
                                                                                        Modula Xtreme
                                                                                        Isiris
                                                                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                                                                        SMJ
                                                                                        Minerva Monitor
                                                                                        Calliope
                                                                                        Ardent D

                                                                                        In Development...
                                                                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                                        Obi-Wan
                                                                                        Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                                        Modula PWB
                                                                                        Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                                        Natalie P Ultra
                                                                                        Natalie P Supreme
                                                                                        Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Evil Twin
                                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                                                          • 1531

                                                                                          Anarchy 558

                                                                                          Some basic data can be shared for a few drivers undergoing review...


                                                                                          The Anarchy 558 and 554 have been of possible interest both for small MT's and for MTM configurations, and also for a three way WTMW or 3.5 way for WWTMWW for center channel application.


                                                                                          Early tests highlighted the interesting impedance curve of the 554 and the relatively low Q of the HF breakup mode...


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                                                                                          Now, some checks on the 8 ohm 558- a different tool, DATS was used for impedance checks, (It is faster) and this was done in a cabinet, so conditions are not the same-


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                                                                                          Measurement data is shown for both 0-30 and 0-60 degree polar plots, measured on a turntable system with the driver radiating location on the spin axis of the turntable. A test enclosure is used comparable in sizer to a target application, not an infinite baffle.



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                                                                                          The 558 exhibits reasonable potential for a small CC speaker using the Duelund concept.
                                                                                          DFAL
                                                                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Evil Twin
                                                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                                                            • Nov 2004
                                                                                            • 1531

                                                                                            ES140ti

                                                                                            The Esoteric ES140ti is also under consideration for small system applications- it has a relatively shallow construction, and workmanship appears to be of high standards.


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                                                                                            Plots for polar characteristics are shown for 0-30 degrees and 0-60 degrees



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                                                                                            reference levels are different, so do not compare the scales of the plots shown. Driver sensitivity compared with the 558 is actually quite similar, at 84.5 to 85 dB/watt. However, note that this is a 7 ohm driver, minimum impedance, while the 558 is 9 ohms, which should result in a "kinder" impedance characteristics for a dual woofer system, all other design parameters being similar.
                                                                                            DFAL
                                                                                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                                            Comment

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