Driver Evaluations for a new project

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  • Face
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2007
    • 995

    Originally posted by Jim Holtz
    Hi Jon,

    I don't understand why Mad quite carrying the NE line. They're superb drivers. Meniscus also carries them and Mark has told me that there were no availability problems getting the driver.

    Jim
    When Mad carried the NE line, it was always different models than what PE carried. Either different sizes or impedances.
    SEOS 12/AE TD10M Front Stage in Progress

    Comment

    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15261

      Driver evaluations, for a new project? Must be the right thread... for now!

      TangBand 25-1983 Inverted Titanium oxid dome tweeter

      Arrived and tested this weekend, on 10" x 20" panel with rounded edges, centered across width, offset to 1/3 of length. Some nice characteristics-
      • Smooth upper octave response with very well damped upper breakup mode- practialy nonexistent
      • Excellent polar response to 30 degrees off axis, and hangs in there better than usual at -40 and -50 - possibly due to convex dome?
      • Good value, under $100
      • Good distortion characteristics for price, close to -50dB down at 90 dB playback level.




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      If distortion was 10dB lower, this would be pretty near state of the art behavior- and they wouldn't cost just $90 each, in all likelihood.
      Last edited by theSven; 23 May 2023, 21:33 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location
      the AudioWorx
      Natalie P
      M8ta
      Modula Neo DCC
      Modula MT XE
      Modula Xtreme
      Isiris
      Wavecor Ardent

      SMJ
      Minerva Monitor
      Calliope
      Ardent D

      In Development...
      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
      Obi-Wan
      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
      Modula PWB
      Calliope CC Supreme
      Natalie P Ultra
      Natalie P Supreme
      Janus BP1 Sub


      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15261

        the N26a from Transducer Lab doesn't seem to get a lot of loving, but it has some promising characteristics, as shown in some basic tests done last year. Time to setup a baffle and do a polar sweep soon, but for now, just this reminder...


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        Last edited by theSven; 23 May 2023, 21:35 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location
        the AudioWorx
        Natalie P
        M8ta
        Modula Neo DCC
        Modula MT XE
        Modula Xtreme
        Isiris
        Wavecor Ardent

        SMJ
        Minerva Monitor
        Calliope
        Ardent D

        In Development...
        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
        Obi-Wan
        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
        Modula PWB
        Calliope CC Supreme
        Natalie P Ultra
        Natalie P Supreme
        Janus BP1 Sub


        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15261

          Motus Audio- not a household word, but perhaps it should be? Doesn't compete on price with Dayton RS stuff, but doesn't do a bad job of competing with some big guys on performance. Underhung voice coil motor, and all the goodness that comes with that an a pressed paper cone with minimal resonance. There's definitely stuff here to work with.


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          Last edited by theSven; 23 May 2023, 21:34 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location
          the AudioWorx
          Natalie P
          M8ta
          Modula Neo DCC
          Modula MT XE
          Modula Xtreme
          Isiris
          Wavecor Ardent

          SMJ
          Minerva Monitor
          Calliope
          Ardent D

          In Development...
          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
          Obi-Wan
          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
          Modula PWB
          Calliope CC Supreme
          Natalie P Ultra
          Natalie P Supreme
          Janus BP1 Sub


          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • 5th element
            Supreme Being Moderator
            • Sep 2009
            • 1671

            Those TL labs tweeters certainly do represent a nice device to use as a benchmark. Very low 2nd and 3rd order HD there.
            What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
            5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
            Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

            Comment

            • Navy Guy
              Member
              • Oct 2014
              • 55

              Originally posted by JonMarsh
              Driver evaluations, for a new project? Must be the right thread... for now!

              TangBand 25-1983 Inverted Titanium oxid dome tweeter

              Arrived and tested this weekend, on 10" x 20" panel with rounded edges, centered across width, offset to 1/3 of length. Some nice characteristics-
              • Smooth upper octave response with very well damped upper breakup mode- practialy nonexistent
              • Excellent polar response to 30 degrees off axis, and hangs in there better than usual at -40 and -50 - possibly due to convex dome?
              • Good value, under $100
              • Good distortion characteristics for price, close to -50dB down at 90 dB playback level.




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              If distortion was 10dB lower, this would be pretty near state of the art behavior- and they wouldn't cost just $90 each, in all likelihood.



              What is this tweeter? I don't think I've seen it before.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Last edited by theSven; 23 May 2023, 21:34 Tuesday. Reason: Update quote
              www.pursuitofperfectsound.com

              Comment

              • fish fingers
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2015
                • 189

                tang band titanium. Some QC issues reported but maybe that was an early batch

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 15261

                  Updated the post to identify the tweeter- maybe I can claim heat exhaustion for that oversight...

                  Some early samples were messed up, maybe a messed up suspension, much higher than normal Fs, not the right frequency response. These look pretty good. I was hoping for a little lower HD, but I'm going to re-run a few other oldie's and Goldies, and we can do a realistic appraisal- Seas DXT, Dayton RS28a-4.

                  OTOH, I also plan to order a pair of Transducer Labs N26 N28BERA today. Different end of the spectrum, I hope...
                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
                  Modula Neo DCC
                  Modula MT XE
                  Modula Xtreme
                  Isiris
                  Wavecor Ardent

                  SMJ
                  Minerva Monitor
                  Calliope
                  Ardent D

                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                  Modula PWB
                  Calliope CC Supreme
                  Natalie P Ultra
                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment

                  • meb46
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 398

                    Cripes Jon, you are on serious driver procurement run (That's my jealousy speaking) Just a side question... how many drivers would you actually have in your stock pile? You might be close to being able to open your own online speaker store to feed the DIY masses... Hancock Express, MadiJon?

                    Comment

                    • JonMarsh
                      Mad Max Moderator
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 15261

                      Well, I don't stock in depth... So it's just usually one pair. Would be hard to run a business that way. :W

                      BTW, the Transducer Lab N26BRG came in yesterday- very nice build quality, a significant step up from the N26A ceramics in the rectangular form factor, a more elaborate magnet structure and rear enclosure plate. At about $270 each, they may represent good value; the claimed sensitivity is quite high, at about 94-95 dB. If these test well, I'll probably order another set right away just to have as backups- if they mate well with the Motus drivers, then there's an opportunity for a midrange price system that might be pretty nice. I think I can get them to dance in an MTM with the 6-1/4" Motus fairly easily. They go out to almost 5 kHz, according to the data sheet. Got baffles prepared, need to do some testing...
                      the AudioWorx
                      Natalie P
                      M8ta
                      Modula Neo DCC
                      Modula MT XE
                      Modula Xtreme
                      Isiris
                      Wavecor Ardent

                      SMJ
                      Minerva Monitor
                      Calliope
                      Ardent D

                      In Development...
                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                      Obi-Wan
                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                      Modula PWB
                      Calliope CC Supreme
                      Natalie P Ultra
                      Natalie P Supreme
                      Janus BP1 Sub


                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                      Comment

                      • kravi4ka
                        Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 90

                        Motus/ N26BRG in MTM???? Now I have a reason for living Please Jon, even a TM is ok...

                        Comment

                        • scottvalentin
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2015
                          • 175

                          Originally posted by JonMarsh
                          Well, I don't stock in depth... So it's just usually one pair. Would be hard to run a business that way. :W

                          BTW, the Transducer Lab N26BRG came in yesterday- very nice build quality, a significant step up from the N26A ceramics in the rectangular form factor, a more elaborate magnet structure and rear enclosure plate. At about $270 each, they may represent good value; the claimed sensitivity is quite high, at about 94-95 dB. If these test well, I'll probably order another set right away just to have as backups- if they mate well with the Motus drivers, then there's an opportunity for a midrange price system that might be pretty nice. I think I can get them to dance in an MTM with the 6-1/4" Motus fairly easily. They go out to almost 5 kHz, according to the data sheet. Got baffles prepared, need to do some testing...
                          That sounds pretty tempting! Those Motus woofers are pretty sexy looking IMO

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15261

                            Originally posted by kravi4ka
                            Motus/ N26BRG in MTM???? Now I have a reason for living Please Jon, even a TM is ok...
                            Actually, it's the Dark Lord working on that one- I'm just a consultant. :W The motors on the Motus are pretty fine, though... and the the cones very extended and smooth in response- I'd say expect to see some data before the week is out.
                            the AudioWorx
                            Natalie P
                            M8ta
                            Modula Neo DCC
                            Modula MT XE
                            Modula Xtreme
                            Isiris
                            Wavecor Ardent

                            SMJ
                            Minerva Monitor
                            Calliope
                            Ardent D

                            In Development...
                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                            Obi-Wan
                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                            Modula PWB
                            Calliope CC Supreme
                            Natalie P Ultra
                            Natalie P Supreme
                            Janus BP1 Sub


                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • JonMarsh
                              Mad Max Moderator
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 15261

                              Originally posted by scottvalentin
                              That sounds pretty tempting! Those Motus woofers are pretty sexy looking IMO

                              Sexy is as sexy does, too- and the motors and cone behavior are pretty top flight from what I've seen so far...
                              the AudioWorx
                              Natalie P
                              M8ta
                              Modula Neo DCC
                              Modula MT XE
                              Modula Xtreme
                              Isiris
                              Wavecor Ardent

                              SMJ
                              Minerva Monitor
                              Calliope
                              Ardent D

                              In Development...
                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                              Obi-Wan
                              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                              Modula PWB
                              Calliope CC Supreme
                              Natalie P Ultra
                              Natalie P Supreme
                              Janus BP1 Sub


                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                              Comment

                              • Evil Twin
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Nov 2004
                                • 1531

                                Once again this thread title fits well to current activities... after an extended period coping with corporate issues at Palpatine Industries, and dealing with matters clearly flowing from the Dark Side, it is time again to ponder the advances in the state of driver art, and what concepts may now be practical to realize... some may be of wide interest, while others may raise eyebrows and blood pressure regarding their feasibility and range of application.

                                So be it.

                                There is also some interesting contract work, as well as past commitments to honor.... if all goes as I have foreseen, this will be an interesting if challenging year.

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                                DFAL
                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                Comment

                                • DFAL Minion
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Jan 2017
                                  • 15

                                  and so it begins....


                                  .....opps, wrong movie....ops:
                                  DFAL
                                  Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                  A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries
                                  Supreme Director of Operations, EVIL TWIN


                                  "A Royal Guardsman never seeks special privileges, ever. His entire goal in life is to serve our Dark Master, ET, and the New Order he created."

                                  Comment

                                  • Evil Twin
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2004
                                    • 1531

                                    One of the interesting things under further investigation is to attempt to tie together various clues from Accuton and others... such as just what their "filtered" distortion measurements mean, and how this likely relates to the work of Reiner Feile and his popular (in Europe) mini monitor design using the rather ancient Seas TAF27.

                                    Some relatively new drivers are curiously interesting, but in spite of new diaphragm materials such as corundum, still suffer fairly high Q break up modes, and these generally come with significant resonance amplification of harmonic distortion products and accompanying in increases in intermodulation distortion.

                                    Some early experiments I'm conducting under contract show interesting potential... in this case some quick tests (with more planned) for the Peerless DA25TX00-08.


                                    This first plot is of the DA25TX00 in an experimental waveguide....


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                                    And the input impedance with a basic LCR conjugate network to partially compensate the complex impedance characteristic at resonance.


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                                    Now here is the modeled response with a simple crossover network primarily consisting of a single series capacitor, plus the LPAD attenuation network with elliptic filters to suppress the high frequency break up mode. For clarity, a target 3rd order response is overlaid.


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                                    And for further reference, a plot of the input impedance to the driver and "crossover" with LPAD and ultrasonic filters.

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                                    These crossover simulations (which include component parasitic characteristics) are certainly promising, and a more complete hardware test is now planned.
                                    DFAL
                                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                    Comment

                                    • Evil Twin
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2004
                                      • 1531

                                      More measurements on the DA25TX00-08

                                      The appearance of the DA25TX00-08 may be unusual to many eyes, perhaps even off-putting. The rear assemblage for connection entry and "heat sinking" is a curious design feature- it could not have been included without a reason, but it's implementation and functioning is largely a question mark.


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                                      On the other hand, the behavior of the dome has both pluses and minuses...


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                                      Clearly, the shape of the dome and perhaps the simple flat front plate contribute to a surprisingly good level of off axis response...


                                      But this may also contribute to the moderately high Q breakup mode.


                                      Still, a conventional distortion plot shows promising HD3 behavior, with relatively little resonance amplification of distortion products.

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                                      DFAL
                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                      Comment

                                      • Juhazi
                                        Senior Member
                                        • May 2008
                                        • 239

                                        Did you notice power rating 100W - extreme for a hifi tweeter and obviousy all that energy won't transform to sound pressure...
                                        My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                                        Comment

                                        • Evil Twin
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2004
                                          • 1531

                                          Originally posted by Juhazi
                                          Did you notice power rating 100W - extreme for a hifi tweeter and obviousy all that energy won't transform to sound pressure...
                                          Yes, and there are some curious design choices for this transducer- what appears to be a heatsink assembly with the connection leads embedded is certainly one of them. I suspect that thermal power handling is a strong point, based on the obvious physical design and Peerless claims.

                                          From my perspective, an intriguing point is how the shape of the dome seems to promote a very subtle and consistent tapering of the upper two octaves of response, without the drop in SPL with a marked corner in the response at some point... this is quite different from most HF transducers I measure, even those with Beryllium domes.


                                          The behavior of this far more expensive TW29BN is much more typical...

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                                          The same measuring setup and baffle, same test conditions with 10 degree steps.

                                          One would hardly believe there is a nearly 10X difference in price.
                                          DFAL
                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                          Comment

                                          • cochinada
                                            Senior Member
                                            • May 2014
                                            • 658

                                            Yes, but what about the distortion and waterfall plot? In fact TW29BN is the number one tweeter on my list.
                                            Joaquim

                                            DIY 4 way speakers.
                                            DIY subwoofers.
                                            Zaph ZD3C.

                                            Comment

                                            • Juhazi
                                              Senior Member
                                              • May 2008
                                              • 239

                                              Around 10kHz wavelength is so short, that very small details become important, eg. membrane profile, surround, frame cutout depth & edge profile, grille etc. BlieSMA has done it right too.
                                              My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                                              Comment

                                              • Evil Twin
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2004
                                                • 1531

                                                I have a recent sample of the TW29BN, for which I can offer this data. Perhaps it will whet your interest further...


                                                Polar response curves at 10 degree increments:

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                                                Distortion Sweep with 2.83VRMS


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                                                Waterfall plot


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                                                The dome profile appears to result in a relatively low Q breakup mode that is well damped compared with many other Beryllium dome tweeters, comparable to the SS 6640.

                                                Like Scanspeak, the 2nd order distortion appears to be substantially higher than 3rd at this output level.
                                                DFAL
                                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                Comment

                                                • cochinada
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • May 2014
                                                  • 658

                                                  Thank you very much. 2nd harmonic distortion is indeed a bit higher than I would like but above all, your waterfall plot is considerably worse than the one from Troels. I wonder...
                                                  Joaquim

                                                  DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                  DIY subwoofers.
                                                  Zaph ZD3C.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Evil Twin
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Nov 2004
                                                    • 1531

                                                    Unless the setup and software tools are the same, I would be reluctant to compare waterfall plots across different systems. This was done using Fuzzmeasure 4.0, latest updates, with an ACCO Pacific instrumentation microphone and preamp, but I have never attempted to cross correlate this specific measurement and do not regularly use it myself.
                                                    DFAL
                                                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Dave Bullet
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Jul 2007
                                                      • 474

                                                      Very interesting. It would be great to see the same designer measure both beryllium and soft dome versions -being TW29BN vs. TW29DN respectively.

                                                      I'd like to know how much better the beryllium dome is - considering the price difference.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • cochinada
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • May 2014
                                                        • 658

                                                        Originally posted by Dave Bullet
                                                        Very interesting. It would be great to see the same designer measure both beryllium and soft dome versions -being TW29BN vs. TW29DN respectively.

                                                        I'd like to know how much better the beryllium dome is - considering the price difference.
                                                        x2 x2 x2
                                                        Joaquim

                                                        DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                        DIY subwoofers.
                                                        Zaph ZD3C.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Evil Twin
                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                          • 1531

                                                          TW29DN also tested....

                                                          Tw29dn...

                                                          Polar update, 10 degree increments

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                                                          Distortion on axis.

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                                                          Most notable issue with the TW29DN is a broad hump in the response centered at about 14 kHz. This "helps" the off axis extension at 30 degrees, keeping it fairly solid to the 15 kHz area.


                                                          These response curves, like the TW29BN, are measured on a 12" by 12" panel with a 3/4" round over at the edges. The response is not as flat on this baffle for either of these tweeters as for some others, even though additional felt diffraction control was employed to reduce response irregularities. .
                                                          DFAL
                                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                          Comment

                                                          • cochinada
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • May 2014
                                                            • 658

                                                            At last a comparative between the most wanted tweeters on my list measured by the same tester! It remains to be seen the measures from HiFiCompass but I'm not expecting any surprises as both seem more or less the same for the Beryllium version.
                                                            I must say it looks like the 3rd HD is even lower for the TW29DN which is most unexpected. That bump you mention however looks about 2dB higher for the TW29DN which must contribute for higher power response and worries me a bit although I think I can't hear anything above 15KHz or so.
                                                            If we consider the (substantial) difference in price between these two models I find it hard to justify to myself the option for the most expensive...
                                                            I know there's more than meets the eye besides measures but still... :roll:
                                                            What is your opinion oh Dark Lord?

                                                            EDIT: HiFiCompass has now published both measures as well.
                                                            Last edited by cochinada; 16 April 2019, 10:30 Tuesday.
                                                            Joaquim

                                                            DIY 4 way speakers.
                                                            DIY subwoofers.
                                                            Zaph ZD3C.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Evil Twin
                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                              • Nov 2004
                                                              • 1531

                                                              I believe there is a popular aphorism about opinions and anatomical features that nearly all living beings have...


                                                              I agree there is a clear value proposition for the DW29DN, all popular "opinions" about what dome materials are "modern and contemporary" versus "old school".

                                                              One may readily argue that the hump in the upper range axial response of the TW29DN is relatively minor, inaudible to many, easily equalized away if desired, and actually a very small contribution to the averaged forward power response.

                                                              One may also argue that though the TW239BN has a very small resonance amplification of distortion products between 7 and 10 kHz, it is there... though hardly at a level to offend most. And one may well note that the 2nd harmonic above 10kHz appears to be at a lower level than the DN. Is that significant?

                                                              I would suggest making the choice which produces the most mental satisfaction for you, weighing all factors significant to you, and not worry about the possible sonic differences.
                                                              DFAL
                                                              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Evil Twin
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Nov 2004
                                                                • 1531

                                                                The Baby Yoda of mid woofers?

                                                                This is the beginning of another. driver investigation which might yield some interesting possibilities...

                                                                In a few days I hope to have more definitive data, but one early result is interesting... most interesting...

                                                                For what is missing...


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                                                                DFAL
                                                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                Comment

                                                                • ergo
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                                  • 675

                                                                  You mean that the impedance looks nice and smooth where one would expect a cone edge induced ripple ?

                                                                  Those Anarchy woofers look cool, but they are not available in Europe as far as I can find... it is possible to get them mailed from US of course, but that tends to make the price way less attractive..... so I kinda silently hope they are not as good as they seem :W

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • dwk
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Apr 2005
                                                                    • 251

                                                                    I would simply say 'no anomalies', but yeah - that's awfully clean. Zaphs measurements of the original Anarchy do show a glitch around the 4k breakup http://zaphaudio.com/temp/EX-Anarchy-FR.gif - it'll be interesting to see whether this reflects an actual difference in behavior or whether it's just different measurement conditions.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Evil Twin
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                                      • 1531

                                                                      To clarify matters...

                                                                      Perhaps this plot of the Anarchy 708 measured on the same equipment within the same 24 hour period will clarify matters...

                                                                      Both are 500 point resolution measurements.


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                                                                      DFAL
                                                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • dwk
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Apr 2005
                                                                        • 251

                                                                        Ah, so the original trace is one of the 5" drivers? Very interesting indeed.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Bear
                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                          • Dec 2008
                                                                          • 1038

                                                                          Originally posted by ergo
                                                                          Those Anarchy woofers look cool, but they are not available in Europe as far as I can find...
                                                                          Availability in the US also seems a little bit in question, as well...
                                                                          Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Evil Twin
                                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                                            • Nov 2004
                                                                            • 1531

                                                                            Originally posted by dwk
                                                                            Ah, so the original trace is one of the 5" drivers? Very interesting indeed.
                                                                            Very interesting, but inaccurate nomenclature from vendors and manufacturer's is one of my (many) pet peeves...


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                                                                            This is a photograph of the test sample dropped into a cabinet with a driver rebate for a 6" driver.

                                                                            I trust there are no further questions about the identifying properties, and none necessary.
                                                                            DFAL
                                                                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Evil Twin
                                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                                              • Nov 2004
                                                                              • 1531

                                                                              Interesting... most interesting.

                                                                              Some basic measurements fore the 554 have been completed, and additional data is now available...

                                                                              Polar behavior shows good power response potential as would be expected, given the size of the cone. It also reveals the breakup mode at 9kHz, about the same as an Accuton C79.

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                                                                              Distortion performance is good if not remarkable; HD3 levels hardly budget when doubling the drive level to 5.6VRMS, which is about 8W for the driver impedance. This is fairly loud in room, given the apparent sensitivity of about 87 dB/2.83VRMS.

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                                                                              The low CMS and low VAS are apparent in the relatively small increase in Fb over Fs.


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                                                                              Testing the 558 should be interesting, once time is available- it might be rather interesting in a small MTM, or as an MTM midrange/treble configuration. The relative flatness of response from 200Hz to 2500Hz mounted in a small enclosure is somewhat intriguing, and certainly easy to work with.
                                                                              DFAL
                                                                              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Dave Bullet
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Jul 2007
                                                                                • 474

                                                                                Thank you ET as always for posting such useful information. What amazes me is how you manage to do such measurements, especially if you are "in transit". I can only assume your Tie fighter has the requisite measurement setup and acoustic damping to enable clean measurements. the dark side is very powerful. Tie fighter piloting, speaker measuring and no doubt dinner curry ordering all done with a thought.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Evil Twin
                                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                                  • Nov 2004
                                                                                  • 1531

                                                                                  Originally posted by Dave Bullet
                                                                                  Thank you ET as always for posting such useful information. What amazes me is how you manage to do such measurements, especially if you are "in transit". I can only assume your Tie fighter has the requisite measurement setup and acoustic damping to enable clean measurements. the dark side is very powerful. Tie fighter piloting, speaker measuring and no doubt dinner curry ordering all done with a thought.
                                                                                  It is not well known that I have an Imperial shuttle at my disposal from time to time, and though the working circumstances are cramped, it is possible to manage some tasks.

                                                                                  As I have mentioned to Steve Manning, it is akin to working on construction projects on a submarine- something Mr. Manning has direct knowledge of from an earlier phase of his life.
                                                                                  DFAL
                                                                                  Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                                  A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • CraigJ
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Feb 2006
                                                                                    • 518

                                                                                    Originally posted by Bear
                                                                                    Availability in the US also seems a little bit in question, as well...
                                                                                    Erich, of DIYSoundgroup, emailed that he should have new stock of the Anarchy-704 around April. Apparently, a “high end speaker company” purchased his last 90 woofers..

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Evil Twin
                                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                                                      • 1531

                                                                                      Originally posted by CraigJ
                                                                                      Erich, of DIYSoundgroup, emailed that he should have new stock of the Anarchy-704 around April. Apparently, a “high end speaker company” purchased his last 90 woofers..

                                                                                      Interesting... most interesting.

                                                                                      This was the 554 tested now, I do have 708 and 704 on hand.

                                                                                      There is another concept, requiring the 558, also. It might be wise to ensure a small supply soon... as I only have two on hand.
                                                                                      DFAL
                                                                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • CraigJ
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Feb 2006
                                                                                        • 518

                                                                                        Originally posted by Evil Twin
                                                                                        Interesting... most interesting.

                                                                                        This was the 554 tested now, I do have 708 and 704 on hand. .
                                                                                        I know, I’m selfishly trying to avoid dual or triple Accuton AS168’s in one of your designs. No offense, but my wife’s choke hold is almost as strong as your’s, and she is also very frugal.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Evil Twin
                                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                                                          • 1531

                                                                                          Originally posted by CraigJ
                                                                                          I know, I’m selfishly trying to avoid dual or triple Accuton AS168’s in one of your designs. No offense, but my wife’s choke hold is almost as strong as your’s, and she is also very frugal.

                                                                                          I understand the nature of your dilemma, and I have met a Russian woman whom you might call "frugal" but she deems herself "econom", but as she is not a wife, (yet) I operate with relative impunity.

                                                                                          However, I should once again emphasize that this is a design study, which means quite literally that nothing is cast in concrete, and that several solutions are likely to be developed, different in cost structure and performance targets.

                                                                                          And this thread is just a continuing effort documenting driver evaluations.

                                                                                          Items yet to be concluded in this thread are evaluations of both BlieSMa T34 tweeters, the Anarchy 708 and 558, and the PuriFi PTT6.5W04-01A (8 should be shipped next week or shortly thereafter).

                                                                                          The PuriFi woofers are candidates for a mid priced version of the Ardent D, (for Duelund) as well as for the long rumored NatalieP Ultra. Cabinet materials for the latter are on hand and some fabrication steps have been completed.

                                                                                          Work is expected to continue on the Ardent cabinet pieces this coming weekend, including the detail crosscut and facet bevel work on the front panels. Woofer test system cabinets (woofer's plus PR) are about half way through construction for three (AS168, Anarchy 708, PTT6.5W04-01A) to verify the performance of modeled configurations.

                                                                                          Events are unfolding exactly as I have foreseen, if not as quickly as I would desire...
                                                                                          DFAL
                                                                                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • ergo
                                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                                                            • 675

                                                                                            Having 'the force' to use must be how you can manage with that multi leveled multi project todo list. Us earthers (oh I think that term is from another SciFi film I'm watching currently) can only observe with envy and try to do one project at a time or maybe two if stretching
                                                                                            It is great and much appreciated as learning to be gained here are also many.

                                                                                            Comment

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