power conditioners

[kgveteran]

I have a customer who is interested in a power conditioner.I do not use one , but he would like one.

We will be connecting (1)Behringer EP2500,ADA PTM-6150, feedback distroyer,PS3,PS2,HDTV sat. receiver,Outlaw 950.

What do you think ?

Kg

[Glen B]

A number of us at HTG have the Belkin PureAV PF-60.

http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV.process?Section_Id=202493

[tabasc07]

Yup I just bought one of those Belkin PF60's off amazon a few days ago for a lot cheaper than the msrp. I remember reading somewhere that it has two high current banks for amplifiers so it would be nice for your EP2500 and ADA PTM-6150.

[kgveteran]

Yup I just bought one of those Belkin PF60's off amazon a few days ago for a lot cheaper than the msrp. I remember reading somewhere that it has two high current banks for amplifiers so it would be nice for your EP2500 and ADA PTM-6150.

I found it also on Amazon for about 225.00 shipped.Seems like it will fit the bill perfect.Beats the 599.00 MSRP .THanx for the help guys.

Kg

[impala454]

I can throw in another good word for the PF60. Yeah the MSRP is a little misleading on the thing.

[here.now]

I second the good word on the PF-60. It's been a pleasure to own.

Edit: I recall paying somewhere around 230 for mine also. I love the programmable remote-on features. So easy, and saves on the electricity bills as well.

[Blktre]

I would love to see a pic of the back panel. Havent been able to find one. Anybody have a link? Thanks...

[Glen B]

Here's the back panel and inside view as well:

[Blktre]

Thanks Glen. Just what i was after. This unit seems to fit the bill for a great price. I was originally thinking Panamax, but after seeing this thread, i just changed my mind. Thanks again for the tips and pics!

[kgveteran]

Thanx guys. I'd like two.One for the equipment and one for the amps.Since it only has two amp outlets I'll start with the eqipment rack.

Kg

[kgveteran]

It's ordered and on the way. Buy.com for $216.00 shipped.

Kg

[here.now]

Let us know what you think when it arrives. I'm assuming you're going to an out-of box check-up right? Has anyone ever tested power-conditioners? I'm curious to know the measurable benefits.

-Jeff

[kgveteran]

Well we are on the second one and still having problems with the power down. Seems that once its up and running it wont shut down. :M

[aud19]

All good recommendations, I'll put mine in for the APC line :T

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=310

[PewterTA]

I bought the APC S15BLK (battery backup) and it made a definite noticeably better difference. The way I really confirmed this was listening to The Doors - Riders on the Storm. First I had neither my Pre nor Amp plugged in. The cymbals from the drum that come in right around 20 seconds or so was noticeable...but not all that great. I then plugged in just the pre, the cymbal was much more noticeable and sounded more realistic. I then plugged in the amp as well and noticed a greater improvement.

Initially I thought it actually deadened the sound from my equipment and was ready to take it back. I then realized that the sound is a couple dBs quieter, but the soundstage is much more "black" or quiet. That's what I was confusing with the should not being as good with all my stuff plugged into it. But after testing all the difference options of pre/amp/cdp being plugged into it, all being plugged into the APC unit definitely made a difference.

Plus I like having the battery backup incase the power goes out, I can shut down everything in a timely manner.

Definitely give it a :T :T

[Russ L]

My APC designed Rotel RLC-1040 Power Conditioner lowers the noise floor in my system substantially without suppressing the sound. The music/audio improves even tho the signal is being filtered. Improvements in my rig were quite noticeable as I live downtown where RF/EM is a big problem.

[howzitwerk]

I have the RLC-1040 also, and like it better than the discontinued Panamax M5100 EX I was using before. With the Panamax I'd still get pops in the speakers from the washing machine on the other end of the house, made me wonder what it was doing. Of course they have many different levels of filtering and this was the low-end model, but still, loud pops is just unacceptable. I still have the Panamax since I needed way more plugs when I have all my gear hooked up, but I won't use it for the main amps and sources, just subs or surround amps and accessories like computer, monitor and switches. The RLC gets all the important stuff.

[marky mark]

i too have the Rotel RCL1040, and love it , there was someone that had a richard gray power conditoner and return it cuz he actually liked the rotel better

[planitismetal]

I higly recommend PSaudio Power Plant Premier!!! It is not only a conditioner, but a whole regenerator of ac power!! It's a bit expensive but I think it is the best equipment now in market!!

[scarpi]

One thing I'd like to mention in this discussion and this was an expensive lesson for me. I bought a Panamax Max 5510 AC Regenerator new ($1300 unit). I unfortunately found out that I can't use it with my B&K Reference 200.5 amp even though the Panamax has high current outlets. The B&K draws so much current at turn on that it causes the ampmeter on the Panamax to spike off scale (15 amps) and the Panamax does its job and shuts off the power to my whole system due to sagging current! It's just two great units that are incompatible with each other. To solve the problem, I'm having a 20 amp line installed this monday (less than $300 per the electrician). I will plug my amp into the dedicated 20 amp line and leave the Panamax (with the rest of my gear) plugged into the regular 15 amp circuit. I talked to a Panamax technician about this and he also told me that unless I protect my amp, Panamax would not honor any possible future damage from surges etc because the amp is connected to the rest of the system via cabling. So to keep my damage warranty in tact, I had to purchase a Panamax M2A20 which is a 20 amp wall plug unit made for high current amps and use that on the 20 amp line my amp is plugged into. The moral of the story is that if you are looking to buy a high quality (and expensive) power conditioner for your system and you have an amp that draws alot of current at turn on, I would recommend that you buy a power conditioner that has 20 amp high current outlets on the back and not the typical 15 amp ones. I know it's my mistake for not looking into this before, but you'd think that a high quality and expensive unit like my Panamax would be compatible with a powerful amplifier! So don't be like me, learn before you buy!! :T

[Glen B]

B&K was remiss in not including a soft start feature in such a large amp.

[Armbender]

i currently own the pf60...however with my bryston power pack 300 running my cntre..when my freezer kicks in my centre ch pops...not cool...same with when the doorbell goes off...my centre pops..

i will be switching to the APC in the near future

[Nolan B]

same with when the doorbell goes off...my centre pops..

:unsure:

thats a new one..

[Glen B]

i currently own the pf60...however with my bryston power pack 300 running my cntre..when my freezer kicks in my centre ch pops...not cool...same with when the doorbell goes off...my centre pops..

i will be switching to the APC in the near future

The PF60 has no chokes that can help with noise suppression in the high current section. This is a tradeoff so that you don't get current limiting. Still, I am surprised the caps and ferrite rings are not suppressing the source of pops (unless it is airborne). Try plugging the amp into one of the other analog outlets temporarily and see if you're still getting the pops in the center channel, and report back if there is a difference.

[Armbender]

The PF60 has no chokes that can help with noise suppression in the high current section. This is a tradeoff so that you don't get current limiting. Still, I am surprised the caps and ferrite rings are not suppressing the source of pops (unless it is airborne). Try plugging the amp into one of the other analog outlets temporarily and see if you're still getting the pops in the center channel, and report back if there is a difference.

still get the pops..and its funny cause my 4bsst which is plugged into the wall doesnt give any pops to my mains..

[scarpi]

Well as I mentioned before, I got my dedicated 20 amp line installed for my amp. Works great, but now my year old Panamax 5510 that is plugged into another circuit went out, so I have to send it in for warranty service. It keeps telling me unsafe voltage and will not send power to my source gear even though the power is ok. Temporarily I plugged my gear other than the amp into a panamax surge suppresor I had on hand and it all works. It seems lately that all I do is replace or send in gear for repairs. Over this past year I had to replace my power amp, get my preamp repaired, and now my Panamax has to be sent out.

[scarpi]

Got my 5510 back from Panamax. Repaired under warranty. Works great and I use it for all my gear except my power amp which is plugged into its own 20 amp line. All is well.

[Thirsty93]

Belkin PureAV PF31 What do you guys think of this one?

[Thirsty93]

One thing I'd like to mention in this discussion and this was an expensive lesson for me. I bought a Panamax Max 5510 AC Regenerator new ($1300 unit). I unfortunately found out that I can't use it with my B&K Reference 200.5 amp even though the Panamax has high current outlets. The B&K draws so much current at turn on that it causes the ampmeter on the Panamax to spike off scale (15 amps) and the Panamax does its job and shuts off the power to my whole system due to sagging current! It's just two great units that are incompatible with each other. To solve the problem, I'm having a 20 amp line installed this monday (less than $300 per the electrician). I will plug my amp into the dedicated 20 amp line and leave the Panamax (with the rest of my gear) plugged into the regular 15 amp circuit. I talked to a Panamax technician about this and he also told me that unless I protect my amp, Panamax would not honor any possible future damage from surges etc because the amp is connected to the rest of the system via cabling. So to keep my damage warranty in tact, I had to purchase a Panamax M2A20 which is a 20 amp wall plug unit made for high current amps and use that on the 20 amp line my amp is plugged into. The moral of the story is that if you are looking to buy a high quality (and expensive) power conditioner for your system and you have an amp that draws alot of current at turn on, I would recommend that you buy a power conditioner that has 20 amp high current outlets on the back and not the typical 15 amp ones. I know it's my mistake for not looking into this before, but you'd think that a high quality and expensive unit like my Panamax would be compatible with a powerful amplifier! So don't be like me, learn before you buy!! :T

How do the B&K Ref.st125.2do?

[Hdale85]

The Belkin is pretty nice but you can get the APC H15 for 150 shipped right now from the audioholics store and it kills just about anything even close in price and quite a bit that's even more expensive. Not to mention APC's customer service and warranty are incredible.

[Glen B]

"Kills just about anything even close in price" in what way ? "Kills" does not tell us anything. Is this opinion based on direct comparisons in your system ?

[Glen B]

Sorry. Double post.

[aud19]

I'm going to to assume Dougie's referring to features/specs/build quality etc. There's not much (especially at $150) that can compete in that price range IMO.

And I'll second the customer service/warranty comments. There should be more companies like APC :T

[Hdale85]

Yes, features, specs, build quality, component quality so on. It has been compared to units in the 1k+ range. Also one of the few that does power regulation under 500 bucks. One of the reasons I didn't go with the PF60 is because it doesn't offer power regulation.

As for the warranty, someone on another forum bought one from Audioholics and there was something rattling inside it. He said it worked fine and everything just the rattle worried him, so he called APC and they said no worries we'll send you out a new one asap with a return shipping label for the old one. Well they sent that one out and it wouldn't power on, so he called back and they apologized repeatedly for the problems and then he asked if this time they could send him a black one, they said sure no problem. So they sent him 3 units without receiving one back yet I've never seen any customer service do this. The third one worked perfectly I believe and from what I've heard it's pretty rare to have this many problem units. Mine worked perfect out of the box.

Internal shot!


Image not available

[Thirsty93]

I'm going to to assume Dougie's referring to features/specs/build quality etc. There's not much (especially at $150) that can compete in that price range IMO.

And I'll second the customer service/warranty comments. There should be more companies like APC :T

Just pulled the trigger on one of the apc units :T

[Glen B]

Looks like the same basic technology as in the PF60 -- chokes and caps for noise filtration and liberal use of MOVs for surge suppression. The PF60 actually has a bit more isolation of the outlet banks, and more switching and delay options.

Really, the only advantage I'm seeing in the APC unit is that it has voltage regulation whereas the Belkin does not provide that feature in the PF60. Belkin does provide voltage regulation AND battery backup in another model that has a lower MSRP than the PF60 (see link below).

IMO it would seem that the dollars APC spent on voltage regulation was spent by Belkin on the other features. As such, they both probably balance out valuewise for the features provided. That said, I could live with either unit in my system.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=belkin++AP30800fc10&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4111981132285829071#ps-sellers

[wkhanna]

For $149 (w/free shipping) I just ordered the H15 a few minutes ago to replace the M* HTS 3500 MkII I've been using for the past 2 yrs. Only reason I got the MkII was a deal back then from buy.com --- $70 after mail-in rebate.

Frankly I feel much better knowing I will soon have APC guarding my 'precious' toys.

[don9146]

Here's a link to the Audioholics review of the APC AV H15.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/power-conditioners/apc-h15

Note their words of caution about hooking-up a subwoofer to the H15. Overall, APC is the brand that Audioholics recommend the most and I trust the Audioholics site pretty well.

Later,
Don

[wkhanna]

IMO it would seem that the dollars APC spent on voltage regulation was spent by Belkin on the other features. As such, they both probably balance out valuewise for the features provided. That said, I could live with either unit in my system.

I have noticed significant voltage fluctuation as displayed by the analog meter on my old M* HTS 3500 MkII over the past two years. How accurate the information is that this device is giving is questionable, but I went for the APC because I felt the voltage regulation was option I wanted. Running a turntable motor and phono pre the raison d'être.

[Thirsty93]

For $149 (w/free shipping) I just ordered the H15 a few minutes ago to replace the M* HTS 3500 MkII I've been using for the past 2 yrs. Only reason I got the MkII was a deal back then from buy.com --- $70 after mail-in rebate.

Frankly I feel much better knowing I will soon have APC guarding my 'precious' toys.

Lets hookum up and give these guys a good review!!!

[Mike B]

I have a PF-60 and the only thing I like about it is it tells me how much current I am drawing. About 3 amps.

Otherwise, it takes up space in the stand and does nothing but glow blue. No differance in performance of the components what-so-ever.

I did test it with the 1200 watt microwave oven plugged into it and it reported 11 amps, so it is accurate.

[Thirsty93]

I have a PF-60 and the only thing I like about it is it tells me how much current I am drawing. About 3 amps.

Otherwise, it takes up space in the stand and does nothing but glow blue. No differance in performance of the components what-so-ever.

I did test it with the 1200 watt microwave oven plugged into it and it reported 11 amps, so it is accurate.

Well you could make you some popcorn. :T

[Mike B]

No doubt.

I was a little concerned about how much current these things could pass, so I gave it a spin. The thing is well built and gave a good reading on the voltage drop when sucking down 11 amps.

Yeah, I got one on super sale too.

[exojam]

When I added my PF-60 into the system it cleaned up the picture of my TV (a Mits CRT). I had some type of ground issue with the TV cable that the cable company could not fix and was a pain.

[june]

hello all,

is the monster 3500 worth getting? if found a deal on draigslist for $100.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/power-conditioners/monster-hts-3500-reference-power-center