Can you smell what Brando's cooking!?

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  • augerpro
    Super Senior Member
    • Aug 2006
    • 1866

    So halfway through my August vacation and I've reached a major milestone: all measurements are DONE! Should have been done a while ago but I ran into a hiccup with the NE19 and some ripple around 6-12khz. Turns out these must be perfectly flush, not just with the baffle surface but most importantly with the cutout itself. No gap around the outside of the flange at all. I had used a standard size Forstner bit and it ended up slightly too large, with maybe a 1mm gap around the tweeter flange. It didn't meet my normal asthetic standard, but since this was the second build of all the cabinets (to accommodate the NE19 change over DQ25) there was no way I was doing it a third time. I just decided to watch out for problems, and well if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have none Anyway tweaks were made, problem solved, and an important lesson relearned regarding diffraction, especially of small tweeters. Next time I'll be sure to use a metric Forstner bit of the exact size.

    I'm already satisfied with the selection of the NE19 over the DQ25. These small baffles are diffraction nightmares, but the NE19 stays quite smooth, while the DQ25 developed quite a ripple that was hard to tame, and left me a bit unsatisfied. Infinite baffle measurements are one thing, but sometimes the diffraction profile of the baffle complements the profile of the tweeter, and some times they combine to make a worse profile than either thing separately. The other highlight was during measurements. Often with a tweeter you can tell something about their character while listening to them with MLS signals. The NE19 sound very smooth. Solid, with no resonances, or spitty character. For the matter the FR88 were excellent also, just like listening to a waterfall. Given that a lot of the crossover work was done already with the version that used the DQ25, these will be close to plug and play, just retweak the tweeter circuit.

    No Quarters are coming along nicely. The Eminence Deltalite II 2512 & B&C DE160 version is again pretty much plug and play since I've been listening to the 3012HO/DE160 version for almost a year now. For the Kappalite 3012HO & Beyma CP380M version I have two active crossovers developed, which will be fired up for the first time tonight! One version is an optimized LR4 (using delay) which I won't spend a lot of time with in the near future. The one I'll be working with most right away is using the 3rd order LR filter mentioned previously with no delay. The results of listening to this will help quicken the development of the passive version using that same filter alignment. Once it is perfected in the active version, it is easy to use that as the acoustic target for the passive version. The TD12M/CP385Nd will be last to finished.

    Almost to the finish line...
    ~Brandon 8O
    Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
    Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
    DriverVault
    Soma Sonus

    Comment

    • JonP
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2006
      • 690

      Sounds like you're enjoying your vacation, even if it's a "working" one... :T

      Great progress... been looking forward to seeing the the little guys get finalized, as well as the NQ versions.

      Just for my inquiring mind, is the OD on that NE19 exactly what it's data sheet says, or slightly different? If I was shopping for Forstener bits, lets say....

      Comment

      • augerpro
        Super Senior Member
        • Aug 2006
        • 1866

        Actually measuring one just now with a caliper and they may be standard size, 2 1/16". It is a hair over 52mm, so probably not metric. I only had 2" and 2 1/8" forstner bits and used the 2 1/8" and it is clearly too big. 2 1/16" should be ok, but I hesitate to say for sure until I actually tried it. 52mm would probably require extra sanding.
        ~Brandon 8O
        Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
        Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
        DriverVault
        Soma Sonus

        Comment

        • JonP
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2006
          • 690

          Good to know...

          I'd probably do that on the trusty Jasper Jig, since I have one. It wouldn't be too difficult for that size. They have holes in 1/16" increments.

          I actually did holes for the Aura NT1 with the Jasper and router. THAT was barely a good idea, even if it does have holes down to 1". But hey, 2 usable baffles from 3 isn't all that terrible, right? 8O I'll be buying the special size Forstener Zaph reccomends, next time I do that!

          Comment

          • augerpro
            Super Senior Member
            • Aug 2006
            • 1866

            My Jasper doesn't go that small. You must have the other version? That would be ideal for sure.
            ~Brandon 8O
            Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
            Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
            DriverVault
            Soma Sonus

            Comment

            • JonP
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2006
              • 690

              I got both with the package deal, since I was expecting to do a sub (and did).

              Small one: 1" to 7 1/2" (model 400)
              Large one: 2 1/4" to 18 3/16" (model 200)

              Using the low end of either is kinda challenging, especially with the 400. Hard to see what you're doing. The 200, you just have this huge plate of plexi swinging around an assumaby smaller baffle...

              Anyway, now back to your normally scheduled thread... :W Looking forward to hearing about further progress!

              Comment

              • Fdas
                Member
                • May 2010
                • 98

                How is the documentation coming for that BBV2?

                Comment

                • augerpro
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 1866

                  Not so much lately, just been enjoying the last of summer taking a family trip to Durango and Mesa Verde. Fun town surrounded by hotspots for every outdoor activity you can imagine.
                  ~Brandon 8O
                  Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                  Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                  DriverVault
                  Soma Sonus

                  Comment

                  • Biermann
                    Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 51

                    Hey Augerpro,

                    Sounds like you've made some serious progress. Looking forward to your final results with the final horn build planned. I am wondering what CD's you tested on the 18Sound XT1086, and whether you had a chance to try their NSD1095N which the WG is supposedly designed for. From what I've read on DIYA the 18Sound 1" drivers have some of the widest exit angles ~24deg, and therefore am really curious who well their CD vs other manufacturer's with narrower angles performed with directivity on that WG. I am seriously thinking about using it in my next build, it has a nice size and clean look, any thoughts` would be appreciated.

                    Comment

                    • IceZero
                      Junior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8

                      Hey Brandon,

                      Just wanted to know if you had an update on when your are releasing your designs?

                      Comment

                      • augerpro
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 1866

                        I've been working a lot lately and any free time is being used to enjoy the end of summer and yardwork. When I get back to these I'll be focusing on getting the BBV2 published since it is pretty much done.

                        I'm working through some compression driver issues on the NQ so it has kind of stalled the project right now. Well the budget 2512/DE160 version is done, but since I have to do a big write up it doesn't make sense to do that one until the rest are finished.

                        Bierman you bring up topic I'm concerned about right now. I remember reading about those exit angles back in the Ariel thread, do you remember how the different manufacturers compare?
                        ~Brandon 8O
                        Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                        Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                        DriverVault
                        Soma Sonus

                        Comment

                        • Paul W
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 549

                          Brandon,
                          Too bad you couldn't make it to RMAF & Tom's this year...great time.

                          Here are the exit angles I've collected, but can't vouch for the accuracy. I believe all are overall angles (/2 per side).

                          18sound:
                          NSD1095N, ND1090 = 27°
                          NSD1480N = 10°


                          B&C

                          1"
                          DE250 14.6°
                          DE10 7.7°
                          DE12 24°
                          DE400TN 20.7°
                          DE400 31°
                          DE500 17°
                          DE200 9.9°

                          2"
                          DE85TN 34.5°
                          DE750TN 22°
                          DE950TN 17°

                          BEYMA:

                          CP750Nd – 24º
                          CP850Nd – 7º
                          CP755Nd – 12º60’
                          SMC65Nd – 15º
                          CP385Nd – 16º30’
                          SMC225Nd – 13º1’


                          jbl 2450 10+°
                          radian 950 20+°
                          Paul

                          Comment

                          • augerpro
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 1866

                            Yeah I had to work the weekend and didn't even get to stop by RMAF for a quick listen.

                            I'm pretty surprised how much the drivers vary. Wonder if the 18 Sound ND1020 or ND1060 is also 27 degree?
                            ~Brandon 8O
                            Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                            Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                            DriverVault
                            Soma Sonus

                            Comment

                            • Paul W
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 549

                              18 Sound makes broad use of the 1.4" design platform. The ND1460A is also 10 degrees...and their 2" drivers are simply the 1.4" with a cast aluminum conical adaptor.

                              Unfortunately, I'd only be guessing on the 1" products. They use at least two different phase plugs for 1" (inexpensive to mfg vs expensive)...that may be one clue.
                              Paul

                              Comment

                              • CllessuR
                                Member
                                • Aug 2009
                                • 36

                                So Brandon, I s the passive for the NQ finished for publication yet?
                                Nice build, BTW.

                                Cllessur

                                Comment

                                • mackintire
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2009
                                  • 186

                                  Originally posted by Fdas
                                  I'll look forward to them whenever you are done.


                                  Any word on whether we'll see the BB V2 finished in 2010? :W

                                  Comment

                                  • augerpro
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Aug 2006
                                    • 1866

                                    The 2512/DE160 passive version is more or less done, although I want to check a couple other crossover points on the DCX to make sure I'm in the sweetspot for the DE160. The other versions are on hold due to an unexpected issue with the compression drivers. That and with no way to currently source the QSC waveguide they aren't a priority to finish, except for my own use.

                                    BBV2 will be done middle winter. I don't really have much left to do, but I don't see getting anything done before Xmas except maybe get the new crossovers built.
                                    ~Brandon 8O
                                    Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                    Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                    DriverVault
                                    Soma Sonus

                                    Comment

                                    • JoshK
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Mar 2005
                                      • 748

                                      Yeah, but there are plenty of us, like myself who already have QSC WGs who are waiting patiently.

                                      Comment

                                      • Fdas
                                        Member
                                        • May 2010
                                        • 98

                                        Originally posted by mackintire
                                        Any word on whether we'll see the BB V2 finished in 2010? :W
                                        I'd like to make this bose buster for some bedroom speakers. Any word on documentation for this revised design?

                                        Comment

                                        • augerpro
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2006
                                          • 1866

                                          Well I was just getting back to the BBV2 when a friend decided to finish his basement by building a home theater from the ground up. We have most of the wires run in the wall, 7 speakers, 4 subs, 1 TV, and a projector. Gonna be a sweet system. The sound system will be a sub/sat composed of 2-way bookshelf type speakers using the Zaph ZA14 and SS 9130 (old HDS), crossing to the 4 subs (Peerless 12" SLS). Once we have the wiring done we'll start on the speakers while the basement is drywalled and finished.

                                          Then I'll get back to the BBV2, which is a priority so I can sell my Rockets and unclutter my living room. Probably looking at late spring to early summer realistically. The NQ is on indefinite hold until I can decide on compression drivers, and the QSC horn is made available again. Rumors are PE may carry them, but with Zilch gone I'm not sure if that will happen.
                                          ~Brandon 8O
                                          Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                          Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                          DriverVault
                                          Soma Sonus

                                          Comment

                                          • dwk
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Apr 2005
                                            • 251

                                            Originally posted by augerpro
                                            The NQ is on indefinite hold until I can decide on compression drivers, and the QSC horn is made available again. Rumors are PE may carry them, but with Zilch gone I'm not sure if that will happen.
                                            If the problem with the QSC is just getting some for testing/prototyping, I have 3 that aren't going to be used any time soon. I don't really want to get rid of them just in case, but they certainly could go out on extended loan.

                                            If the problem is that it's not worth putting the effort in for a design that can't be used, then obviously that's a different story.

                                            Comment

                                            • scarjacket
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Aug 2011
                                              • 3

                                              Hey, long time lurker, first time post, but I'm curious as to why did this thread just die? I know Brandon went off to help out with a theater build, but after reading the first Bose Buster thread and then reading this BBV2 thread, I was all pumped up to get the final design and try to build me some of these.

                                              I'm just wondering if anything happened to make Brandon leave the hobby and not post the final design... He was saying the design was pretty much done late last year. Looks like his last post was in March selling a bunch of his stuff?

                                              Anyways, just hoping all is well with him, as I appreciate his contributions to this hobby. Maybe one day we'll get the final specs on the BBV2, so we all can enjoy his work.

                                              Fill me in if I missed some info on what happened here...

                                              Thanks!

                                              Comment

                                              • augerpro
                                                Super Senior Member
                                                • Aug 2006
                                                • 1866

                                                I'm still here! Been busy enjoying summer and helping a few friends with their theater systems. The center channel for one buddy is almost done, just need to finish crossover work. He is pretty excited. Also built three subs for my music room which needed them badly. And I'm building a pair of Statement Monitors, had the parts and was cuttting wood for everything else so I figured what the heck? Always good to have other high end references for comparing my own creations.

                                                I won't make any promises on the timeline and I probably sound like a broken record, but the BBV2 is in fact pretty much done. I just haven't had time to fire them up and listen. I promise I will put the info out, just don't know when. I would guess late Fall I should have time to finally get them playing. The NQ's are dead-ish. i won't say completely dead because I have some compression drivers I want to listen to and some horns (B&C and Eminence) I'm measuring for future revisions of the design, but the design as it stands now won't be published due to driver costs going up and horn availability being sketchy (PE makes it sound like they are a limited buy). Realistically I probably wouldn't have something to share until late next year.
                                                ~Brandon 8O
                                                Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                                                Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                                                DriverVault
                                                Soma Sonus

                                                Comment

                                                • scarjacket
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Aug 2011
                                                  • 3

                                                  Hey Brandon,

                                                  Thanks for responding! Glad to hear you are still around and apparently staying very busy! I'll keep watching this space for any updates on the BBV2. I'm still a few months off from actually starting to purchase anything to start my first build, so late fall (don't worry, I won't hold you to it :W ) will work nicely for me if that's when you get to it.

                                                  Thanks again for replying!

                                                  Comment

                                                  • bobhowell
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jul 2008
                                                    • 202

                                                    Originally posted by augerpro
                                                    impulse here is the FR prototype crossover. Let me know how it sounds if you build it. I'd be curious about two things, overall tonal balance and the audibility of the cone breakup at 12khz. In trying to keep costs reasonable there was not much I could do about that breakup without making a dedicated notch filter. I'll model one up anyway if you want to compare the two.


                                                    Click image for larger version  Name:	FR.webp Views:	0 Size:	6.9 KB ID:	939723

                                                    I am building this. Has anyone else?

                                                    Bob
                                                    Last edited by theSven; 10 June 2023, 10:16 Saturday. Reason: Update quote

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Finleyville
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Sep 2006
                                                      • 350

                                                      It's funny...

                                                      I have been waiting for the stats of the BB V2.0 for awhile. My lovely wife just told me today she could use a small bedroom system. I know these would fit the bill. I'm just waiting.....and waiting.... lol.
                                                      BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • mackintire
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2009
                                                        • 186

                                                        Any word on when the BB v2 will be finished?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • scarjacket
                                                          Junior Member
                                                          • Aug 2011
                                                          • 3

                                                          Bump... Been about a year since any updates... hoping for something soon?

                                                          Comment

                                                          • SpeakerGuy
                                                            Member
                                                            • Mar 2010
                                                            • 71

                                                            Originally posted by augerpro
                                                            ...The NQ's are dead-ish...the design as it stands now won't be published due to driver costs going up and horn availability being sketchy (PE makes it sound like they are a limited buy). Realistically I probably wouldn't have something to share until late next year.
                                                            We miss you Brandon (or, at least I miss your threads!). I think the Eminence woofers has come back down in price some lately (about $200 now)?

                                                            Comment

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