B&W and Newer Digital Amps

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  • Glenee
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2006
    • 253

    #46
    Well I called Wyred4Sound today to ask several questions and One thing led to another. They are coming out with a Statement/Reference Amp. It will have a TUBE input/output stage ( one or the other can't remember, didn't want to interrupt when He was talking) New Cosmetics all the way around. No Time frame on when it will be released though. They will be about 2X the price ( Not Quite, but about). They did say they were going to Offer about 100% of Original purchase price Trade-In for Original Owners of the A Stock previous Amps.
    I thought this might be some good info. At least if you wanted too you could Buy Now and then trade Up if your little Heart Desired.

    Comment

    • boarder1995
      Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 68

      #47
      Here's my latest regarding the 803D with a D-class amp and returning to my original setup...
      Back on original Sunfire 5x200w amp the 803D sound wonderful. I played with them a bit more on the D-sonic and wasn't as disappointed as I was before - I guess my ears were getting used to the new sonic signature. When I switched back to the Sunfire things once again sounded strange, foreign. The sound wasn't lifeless, but a bit more tamed up top. It lost some of its sparkle up top perhaps compared to the Class D. I listened for a while with mostly classical and never grew fatigued though and wanted to listen to one more song. So I guess I'm back in "the zone" and in my temporary sonic bliss. I do think the extra top end detail is kinda cool, so perhaps I need to try a Classe or similar at some point. Also, the bass from the Sunfire didn't sound as drawn back as I expected. Still strong, but perhaps not as much so as with the D-sonic. In the end I think I'm on the right path without the D-sonic, but I'd actually welcome the unit back again for more listening, perhaps on a non-Diamond B&W unit next time. I've actually got 805S coming to me that perhaps would pair up nicely with a little box full of major Class D power.

      Comment

      • wettou
        Ultra Senior Member
        • May 2006
        • 3389

        #48
        Originally posted by Skyblue
        Not much actually. They are complete amplifiers in themselves. So, a box to keep them in, a wire from the board to the balanced input for hte monoblocks. Two small wires for sound out to the speaker. One wire for the power input. Some screws to attach it to the box, and then you need to connect a couple of pins in order to tell it if you want mono or stereo from it. In principle you can almost wire it directly to the speaker Maybe even insert it into the bottom of a 800D
        That sound really cool, to bad B&W could not design an Active speaker like Linn does

        Please send pictures of your DIY :W
        Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

        Comment

        • wettou
          Ultra Senior Member
          • May 2006
          • 3389

          #49
          On an other note check these out



          Dreaming
          Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

          Comment

          • KyaDawn
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2008
            • 268

            #50
            Great thread! I didn't know all these Class D amps were using the same component, from B&O for that matter! I did know B&O used some of this pioneering technology in their Beolab 5 speakers introduced around 7 years ago.

            Well I run my 802Ds with the Rotel 1092 and it sounds great! I chose it particularly because it provided a lot of power without taking up the huge amount of space that monoblocks do, and I could also put it in my BDI cabinet due to spacing reasons, and it runs completely cool, so I have no air-flow/over-heating issues whatsoever.

            Soundwise, I like them a lot. I compared them with Classe amps, which sounded warmer to me, but I liked the tightness of the bass in the Rotel, though overall the sound was "leaner" than the Classe. It was a fraction of the cost though.

            I thought I got a good deal with the Rotel especially compared to the Halcro, Jeff Rowland, and BelCantos, but I see there were "identical" amps for even less than what I paid for the 1092! Still, I'm satisfied with the Rotel, and they certain provided more bang-for-the-buck than most of the other amp choices tha I saw. :B

            Comment

            • Skyblue
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2009
              • 504

              #51
              Originally posted by KyaDawn
              Great thread! I didn't know all these Class D amps were using the same component, from B&O for that matter! I did know B&O used some of this pioneering technology in their Beolab 5 speakers introduced around 7 years ago.

              Well I run my 802Ds with the Rotel 1092 and it sounds great! I chose it particularly because it provided a lot of power without taking up the huge amount of space that monoblocks do, and I could also put it in my BDI cabinet due to spacing reasons, and it runs completely cool, so I have no air-flow/over-heating issues whatsoever.

              Soundwise, I like them a lot. I compared them with Classe amps, which sounded warmer to me, but I liked the tightness of the bass in the Rotel, though overall the sound was "leaner" than the Classe. It was a fraction of the cost though.

              I thought I got a good deal with the Rotel especially compared to the Halcro, Jeff Rowland, and BelCantos, but I see there were "identical" amps for even less than what I paid for the 1092! Still, I'm satisfied with the Rotel, and they certain provided more bang-for-the-buck than most of the other amp choices tha I saw. :B
              Well, not all class D amps use B&O modules. I think Spectron use their own, Tripath certainly do. And probably a lot other companies. However, Rotel (1572), Pioneer (suzana), bel canto, jeff roland, Arcam (avr 600, 777) and more use the very same B&O boards with different wiring. I do believe that it is actually forbidden by B&O to customize the boards, so the results should really be somewhat identical.

              Personally, I don't think they will sound nearly as good as say pass, ayre or boulder. But at a fraction of the cost, and with easy placement in a cupboard (they get to 37 degrees centigrades when driven at full power).

              Also note, the asx250 modules that I have are the 3rd generation icepower modules. Apparently they should be better sounding than the precious asp1000 modules that bel canto is based on. If not, I'm sure the next generation will. As a computer geek, its nice to finally see computer type upgrades in the hifi market. Double the performance at the same price every 18 months, thank you.
              B&W 800 Diamond, B&W805S, B&W DB1, Classe SSP 800, DIY Icepower ASX2 600W monos, Ayre QB9, JPlay.

              Comment

              • Audio_ElF
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2007
                • 271

                #52
                Originally posted by Skyblue
                Well, not all class D amps use B&O modules. I think Spectron use their own, Tripath certainly do. And probably a lot other companies. However, Rotel (1572), Pioneer (suzana), bel canto, jeff roland, Arcam (avr 600, 777) and more use the very same B&O boards with different wiring. I do believe that it is actually forbidden by B&O to customize the boards, so the results should really be somewhat identical.
                Just a correction ... but the Arcam FMJ P777 IS Class A/B not using Class D B&O Modules. The AVR600 is stated as being Class G which also is not (IIRC) B&O Modules.

                Eloise

                Comment

                • Skyblue
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2009
                  • 504

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Audio_ElF
                  Just a correction ... but the Arcam FMJ P777 IS Class A/B not using Class D B&O Modules. The AVR600 is stated as being Class G which also is not (IIRC) B&O Modules.

                  Eloise
                  Hmm I might be mistaken. 10% of what I write are 95% true, 14% are 65% true, 35% are only 5% true and the rest is written by me (somewhat stolen from Douglas Adams )
                  B&W 800 Diamond, B&W805S, B&W DB1, Classe SSP 800, DIY Icepower ASX2 600W monos, Ayre QB9, JPlay.

                  Comment

                  • wettou
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • May 2006
                    • 3389

                    #54
                    Digital Amps

                    Acoustic Reality http://www.acoustic-reality.com/
                    eAR202, etc (ICEPower)

                    B&O http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/sw1067.asp
                    (ICEPower)

                    BelCanto http://www.belcantodesign.com/products.html
                    Evo (Tripath) eOne (ICEPower)

                    Bertram http://www.audiokabel.dk/eng-main.htm
                    (ICEPower)

                    D-Sonic http://www.d-sonic.net/
                    Magnum (ICEPower)

                    Jeff Rowland http://www.jeffrowland.com/
                    (ICEPower)

                    Jjaz Audio http://www.jjaz.dk/
                    (ICEPower)

                    Electronic Visionary Systems http://www.tweakaudio.com/
                    EVS-2 (ICEPower)

                    H2O Audio http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/
                    M250, M500 (ICEpower)

                    Midgard Audio http://www.midgardaudio.no/www/
                    (ICEPower)

                    PSAudio http://www.psaudio.com/
                    GCA, GCMC (ICEPower)

                    Red Dragon Audio http://www.reddragonaudio.com/
                    (ICEpower)

                    Murano-Audio (TW) http://www.murano-audio.com/
                    P500, P1000 (ICEPower)

                    NHT http://nhthifi.com/
                    Power2, Power5 (ICEpower)

                    Rotel http://www.rotel.com/
                    1077 (7x100), 1092 (2x500) (ICEPower)

                    Sonicweld (Icepower) http://www.sonicweld.com/

                    Pioneer

                    TRIPATH

                    Aivin http://www.aivin.com.cn/
                    DT300 (Tripath)

                    Audiodigit http://www.audiodigit.com/
                    MC 8x100 (Tripath)

                    AudioResearch http://www.audioresearch.com/
                    150.2, 300.2, 150M (Tripath)

                    Egosys http://www.egosys.co.jp/
                    Audiotrak DrAMP (Tripath)

                    Elan http://www.elanhomesystems.com/
                    D1200, D1600 (12 and 16 channel power amps, Tripath)

                    Analog Research Technology http://www.analogresearch-technology.com/

                    AudioArt (NL) http://www.audioart.nl/
                    Van Medevoort MA240 (Hypex UcD)

                    AV123 http://www.av123.com/
                    X-Empower, xAmp (prelaunch)
                    (Philips class-D?)

                    Carver http://www.carverusa.com/
                    300.2, 700.2, 1200.2

                    Cary Audio http://www.caryaudio.com/
                    A 306 power amplifier

                    Channel Islands Audio http://www.ciaudio.com/
                    D100, D200 (Hypex UcD)

                    Chapter Audio http://www.chapteraudio.co.uk/
                    Couplet Power Amp (proprietary WMP class-D)

                    DIYCable http://www.diycable.com/
                    Exodus (Hypex UcD)

                    Flying Mole http://www.flyingmoleelectronics.com/
                    (proprietary class-D)

                    Gilmore Audio http://www.glacieraudio.com/
                    Raven, Raptor, Dragonfly m/ch (looks like ICE)

                    Halcro http://www.halcro.com/logic/home.asp
                    Lyrus

                    Integra /Onkyo http://www.integrahometheater.com/
                    DTA 9.4 7x120W 8Ω

                    Kharma http://www.kharma.com/
                    MP150

                    LC Audio http://www.lcaudio.com/
                    Predator SE (ZapPulse)

                    Marantz http://www.marantz.jp
                    Opsodis ES-150 (D2Audio) 2ch virtual surround

                    Medius [DK] http://www.medius.cc/
                    A II, A III

                    MG Audiolabs http://www.mglaudiolabs.com/
                    Symphony (Hypex UcD)

                    MindCraft (NL) http://www.mindcraft.nl/
                    Media Amp One (Hypex UcD)

                    Nuforce http://www.nuforce.com/
                    Ref 8, Ref 8b, Ref 9 (nPhysics proprietary class-D)

                    NuVo Technologies http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/
                    NV-P2100

                    Onkyo http://www.onkyo.com/
                    A-1VL, A-9755, A-9555 (?)

                    Sharp http://www.sharpusa.com/
                    SM-SX1, SM-SX100



                    Sonneteer http://freespace.virgin.net/sonneteer.audio/bronte.html
                    Brontë (Tripath)

                    Sony http://www.sony.com/
                    TA-DA9000ES, TA-FA1200ES (S-Master)

                    Spectron http://www.spectronav.com/
                    Musician, Troubador (int amp w digital inputs)

                    TactAudio/Lyngdorf http://www.lyngdorf.com/
                    Millennium & others (Equibit)

                    TEAC Esoteric http://teac.co.jp/av/esoteric/
                    AZ-1 pre-main (translated)

                    ThetaDigital http://www.thetadigital.com/
                    Virtu PowerDAC (Zetex class-Z)

                    UniwaveTek http://www.uniwavetek.com/
                    Anaco II

                    Yamaha http://www.yamaha.com/
                    MX-D1

                    Nomad Audio Niagara (Hypex)


                    Genesis Reference series (modified Hypex)


                    Wyred 4 sound (ICE)


                    Hephaestus Audio (technologie proprietaire)


                    :T
                    Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                    Comment

                    • Glenee
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 253

                      #55
                      WETTOU, is the Man.

                      Comment

                      • wettou
                        Ultra Senior Member
                        • May 2006
                        • 3389

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Glenee
                        WETTOU, is the Man.
                        You are welcome, glad I could help so many choices so little time
                        Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                        Comment

                        • Glenee
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 253

                          #57
                          Well I ordered a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Pre Amp and 2 SX-1000 series 2 Amps Today. I hope made the right decision Today. I just couldn't see twice the price in the Bel-Canto.

                          Comment

                          • Blindamood
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 899

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Glenee
                            Well I ordered a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Pre Amp and 2 SX-1000 series 2 Amps Today. I hope made the right decision Today. I just couldn't see twice the price in the Bel-Canto.
                            Nice! I have been looking at the Wyred 4 Sound Mini MC 5 CH amp, which provides 220W x 5 of Icepower. A pretty nice looking piece for just under 2K. Will be interested to read more about how they sound. Might be a nice step up from my Rotel RMB-1085, without taking up too much more space.
                            Brad

                            Comment

                            • wettou
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • May 2006
                              • 3389

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Glenee
                              Well I ordered a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Pre Amp and 2 SX-1000 series 2 Amps Today. I hope made the right decision Today. I just couldn't see twice the price in the Bel-Canto.
                              I agree Bel Canto is a joke they basically doubled their prices Hope they go under they also have horrible customer service I speak from experience :cry:
                              Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                              Comment

                              • Glenee
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 253

                                #60
                                I want say this before the equipment arrives. E.J. at Wyred 4 Sound made me feel more comfortable about this Audio Purchase than I have in a long time. E.J. answered my questions, never tried to Up-Sale me, I had to ask him about the differences. He went out of his way to make sure I was Happy and comfortable with my purchase from W4S. If you ever think about buying from them ask for E.J. He's one of the owners.

                                Comment

                                • wettou
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • May 2006
                                  • 3389

                                  #61
                                  Originally posted by Glenee
                                  I want say this before the equipment arrives. E.J. at Wyred 4 Sound made me feel more comfortable about this Audio Purchase than I have in a long time. E.J. answered my questions, never tried to Up-Sale me, I had to ask him about the differences. He went out of his way to make sure I was Happy and comfortable with my purchase from W4S. If you ever think about buying from them ask for E.J. He's one of the owners.
                                  Yes nice people good customer service :T Let us know if their amps are as good as they say?
                                  Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                                  Comment

                                  • Glenee
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Aug 2006
                                    • 253

                                    #62
                                    Well, I have had the STP-SE Pre and the SX-1000's for 3 weeks now with about 350 Hrs on them. I have owned several Heavy High end amps and multiple Pre/Pro-Amp's. The thing I did notice is these do require a Break-In of about 300 hrs to reach their final Sound. When I first fired them up they definately had a Hash, Screach, Electronic Sh$t Sound Up top. This all went away after the first 50 hrs, smoothed right out. The next Big change happened around 150 Hrs, the detail and information reproduced by this system was the Best I have ever heard, a little Dry, but just the best seperation of musical pieces and parts I have Heard, this warrant's the use of decent XLR cables. At around 250 hrs they became not Dry but quite lively and depth and height increased to match some of the best systems I have owned. I don't know if these are better than some I have owned, but I know it is not worse. I am very pleased with the purchase and I got what I wanted, that being Light Weight Good Sound. Weight being pushed aside as a consideration, take a good hard look at this combo it rival's some of the Best I have owned.

                                    Comment

                                    • wettou
                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                      • May 2006
                                      • 3389

                                      #63
                                      Originally posted by Glenee
                                      Well, I have had the STP-SE Pre and the SX-1000's for 3 weeks now with about 350 Hrs on them. I have owned several Heavy High end amps and multiple Pre/Pro-Amp's. The thing I did notice is these do require a Break-In of about 300 hrs to reach their final Sound. When I first fired them up they definately had a Hash, Screach, Electronic Sh$t Sound Up top. This all went away after the first 50 hrs, smoothed right out. The next Big change happened around 150 Hrs, the detail and information reproduced by this system was the Best I have ever heard, a little Dry, but just the best seperation of musical pieces and parts I have Heard, this warrant's the use of decent XLR cables. At around 250 hrs they became not Dry but quite lively and depth and height increased to match some of the best systems I have owned. I don't know if these are better than some I have owned, but I know it is not worse. I am very pleased with the purchase and I got what I wanted, that being Light Weight Good Sound. Weight being pushed aside as a consideration, take a good hard look at this combo it rival's some of the Best I have owned.
                                      Interesting is that that they really got better or that your ear adjusted to the sound?
                                      Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                                      Comment

                                      • Glenee
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2006
                                        • 253

                                        #64
                                        Originally posted by wettou
                                        Interesting is that that they really got better or that your ear adjusted to the sound?
                                        I know up until now I would of thought that within the 10 hours they would of had about 90% of their final sound. The thing is I didn't listen to them but maybe 5 to 10 min's at a time when they were getting the hours on them. It was pure random interval's. They acted like Tubes. Guess it has something to do with the B&O module and other parts. never had a Amp or Pre act like this before. I have had several over the years.They just took a LOOOONG time to settle in, maybe current, maybe circuit, I Don't know.
                                        WHATEVER

                                        Comment

                                        • boarder1995
                                          Member
                                          • Sep 2009
                                          • 68

                                          #65
                                          Interesting. I tried the D-sonic 525wpc amp and didn't put near that much time on the amp, but it was a used/demo amp to begin with. I also noted the same sonic characteristics as you up top - "Ha[r]sh, Screach, Electronic Sh$t Sound Up top" For their size, they're a great option - big power, low heat, small footprint, monoblocks all around possible!

                                          Comment

                                          • TonioRoffo
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Aug 2010
                                            • 11

                                            #66
                                            Running N804's before, and now 804S on DIY Hypex UCD400 power, beefed by a 500VA transformer and 40.000uF worth of caps. Couldn't be more pleased.

                                            These are the amplifier modules used in product such as the CIAudio amps, van medevoort, and the Meridian G95.

                                            Comment

                                            • specialized
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Apr 2008
                                              • 332

                                              #67
                                              Soundwise, I like them a lot. I compared them with Classe amps, which sounded warmer to me, but I liked the tightness of the bass in the Rotel, though overall the sound was "leaner" than the Classe. It was a fraction of the cost though.

                                              Im using Rotel RB-1080 biwired/biamped to my 803S /HTM3S/805S, and i have the same description.. I compared to MC501 and had the same feeling that rotel is leaner and tighther bass. Im not trying to tell that Rotel is better but for the money is cost seem that is really best buy.. I decided to go with McIntosh C2300 Preamp and to keep the rotels, then to go to McIntosh Amps and to use other preamp..


                                              greetings

                                              Darko

                                              Comment

                                              • Industrial
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Mar 2009
                                                • 213

                                                #68
                                                I have the RMB-1565 and love it. It does seem to have a lean sound and pretty fast bass. Im glad I chose it over much more expensive class A/B amps. I guess Im lucky I actually prefer the sound of D vs A/B. I will probably get the 250w x2 version of this Amp in the near future. They look pretty much the same inside so I'm guessing its the same modules just bridged into 2 instead of 5.

                                                Only using CM1 at the moment. Planning on upgrading to CM9's sometime this year (reason for wanting a new amp)

                                                Comment

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