Zaph's new driver...

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  • Jonasz
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2004
    • 852

    Zaph's new driver...

    Looks pretty nice for the price!

    Free support for loudspeaker projects, sourcing OEM speaker building supplies, and passive crossover design. We sell raw speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, subwoofer, midrange drivers, full range drivers), speaker kits, amplifiers, capacitors, resistors, and inductors.


    Free support for loudspeaker projects, sourcing OEM speaker building supplies, and passive crossover design. We sell raw speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, subwoofer, midrange drivers, full range drivers), speaker kits, amplifiers, capacitors, resistors, and inductors.


  • AlanH
    Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 57

    #2
    I wonder how long it will take to see a high-end version of the ZMV5 using this driver?
    -Alan

    There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

    Comment

    • cjd
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Dec 2004
      • 5568

      #3
      Very nice. Very nice indeed.
      diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15261

        #4
        Frame looks like it came out of the same factory as the Exodus 6.5 and the similar CSS driver- which is a good thing. Nice looking parameters all around. Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
        the AudioWorx
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        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
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        Comment

        • NyxOne
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 184

          #5
          Originally posted by JonMarsh
          Frame looks like it came out of the same factory as the Exodus 6.5 and the similar CSS driver- which is a good thing. Nice looking parameters all around. Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
          Take a loot at the pdf

          All the details are there!

          Chuck

          Comment

          • Paul Ebert
            Senior Member
            • May 2004
            • 402

            #6
            Originally posted by JonMarsh
            Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
            HD is in the pdf linked above. The HD3 has a low of -80 dB between 200 and 300 Hz and, then, rises to -50 at 3K.

            Overall, it seems like a well designed driver with quite high value. I, personnally, think it looks great as well.

            Comment

            • dlneubec
              Super Senior Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 1454

              #7
              Originally posted by JonMarsh
              Frame looks like it came out of the same factory as the Exodus 6.5 and the similar CSS driver- which is a good thing. Nice looking parameters all around. Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
              Jon,

              Scroll down in the pdf, there are HD plots, some random sample plots, impedance close up, etc. Whoops, Chuck and Paul beat me to it.
              Dan N.

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15261

                #8
                Thanks- I didn't see the PDF last night on my iPhone, it looks pretty good, though the HD3 curve has the peak around 3 kHz that I would expect- it's sort of an Excel W15CY-001 with 1.5 dB more sensitivity and at 1/4 the cost! I seem to recall that Excel was one of Zaph's favorites at one time.

                Could make a killer little sealed MTM with these... but which tweeter? For parity, the tweeter shouldn't cost more than two of the midwoofers, right?

                What do you want to bet John will have something like that posted soon? :W Of course, if I was doing it, I'd probably just use a modified Natalie P crossover concept (3rd order all pass, good vertical dispersion for an MTM configuration, and reasonable driver suppression).

                Too bad I'm so busy already.... :W
                the AudioWorx
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                In Development...
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                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • AlanH
                  Member
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 57

                  #9
                  His blog states that an MMTMM is forthcoming...If that's the case, should we assume the tweeter will be 4x the woofer cost? Somehow I doubt that'd meet the Zaph priceerformance ratio
                  -Alan

                  There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

                  Comment

                  • ---k---
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • Nov 2005
                    • 5202

                    #10
                    Ahhh, but we can't trust those manufacturer plots. We need independent testing!

                    (in case you missed the first one)
                    - Ryan

                    CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                    Comment

                    • Evil Twin
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 1531

                      #11
                      Originally posted by AlanH
                      His blog states that an MMTMM is forthcoming...If that's the case, should we assume the tweeter will be 4x the woofer cost? Somehow I doubt that'd meet the Zaph priceerformance ratio

                      OTOH, with a target of 4 - 5" drivers at $160, then one could justify a D3004/602010 on sale. you would definitely would want to stay with a lower 3rd order crossover then- that's a tall source to be going very high. This would allow some tight driver spacing with the SS tweeter.

                      Perhaps just an MTM is a better idea. I could use it with my Delilah Sumo electronic crossover and the old woofers in my Tie Fighter.... the 4 ohm sensitivity even after 4-5 dB of BSC should be pretty decent.

                      I admire how John has provided an "explicit" drawing for recommended rear chamfer for backflow; OTOH, that's a pretty steep requirement, not a lot of meat left at the driver mounting point. Perhaps Imperial grade composites would handle that - or should we go green and spell LBL?

                      It would be interesting to see how the linear distortion holds up, where it starts exhibiting energy storage on shaped sine bursts. Regardless, the value proposition (a familiar mantra from Mr. Kruktke) is quite clear.
                      DFAL
                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                      Comment

                      • TacoD
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 1078

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ---k---
                        Ahhh, but we can't trust those manufacturer plots. We need independent testing!

                        (in case you missed the first one)
                        I totally agree, don't get me wrong but why do we need another "Dayton class" woofer?

                        Also I think the motor is big and not that efficient (Bl = 6), I would expect a little more of such motor system.

                        Comment

                        • Ray Tremblay
                          Member
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 49

                          #13
                          Originally posted by AlanH
                          His blog states that an MMTMM is forthcoming...\
                          Looks like I might be buying four of these then. I was just about to pull the trigger on the ZDT3.5 kit at PE. I guess i'll wait to see John's design for this MMTMM. This is very interesting. Looks like he abandoned his MMTMMW that he was working on for a similar design with his own drivers.
                          Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.

                          The Merlots
                          Scanspeak R2904/7000's, Scanspeak 15M4531K00's, Dayton RSS265HF-4's, MiniDSP 2x8, Class D amplification

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15261

                            #14
                            Originally posted by TacoD
                            I totally agree, don't get me wrong but why do we need another "Dayton class" woofer?

                            Also I think the motor is big and not that efficient (Bl = 6), I would expect a little more of such motor system.

                            I commiserate with your Taco, but you know, those folks at Madisound don't have a line of Dayton RS drivers- maybe this is their start to rectifying that situation?

                            Driver design is a handful, and much of it is about trade-offs. Looks like they made some good ones here- in many ways, I still say it's like an improved W15CY but at much lower cost. I'm not a personal fan of the RS150 and RS125, so this is an interesting alternative.

                            Let's face it- everyone gets a vote in this with their wallet, one way or the other. :W
                            the AudioWorx
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                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • Jed
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 3617

                              #15
                              Originally posted by JonMarsh
                              I commiserate with your Taco, but you know, those folks at Madisound don't have a line of Dayton RS drivers- maybe this is their start to rectifying that situation?
                              They have Fountek which is close to Dayton performance as well.

                              Kudos to Zaph on his first driver. It's look great and I might try it as well. Cross it LR4 around 2k to avoid some of the higher order stuff high up.

                              Of course now he'll have to bring a 6, 8, and 10 inch to market... and a tweeter too.

                              Comment

                              • Mark K
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 388

                                #16
                                It does look promising, although there is competition as noted. I'm sure I'll get my hands on a pair of these for testing sooner or later. I don't have any plans for a 5" two way though, so I'm not really inclined to buy a pair (Where's my "evaluation sample" :W )

                                Anyway, I'm not really testing much lately, but I'll make an exception if someone wants to send me a pair. Still have to finish the second order with the ER18 and the running joke of the year, my inability to really finish the dipole...

                                mark
                                www.audioheuristics.org

                                Comment

                                • ---k---
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2005
                                  • 5202

                                  #17
                                  It sounds like Zaph and Madisound are going to be offering a few kits with these things.

                                  Jed,
                                  Aren't you working with Madisound on a new kit?

                                  Seems like they might be making a bigger push for kits. More good kits in market is a good thing. :T


                                  PE,
                                  If you want to offer CJD and I $$ to offer the Khanspire, Khancenter, or In-Khan-Neato as a kit, I'm listening. :rofl:
                                  - Ryan

                                  CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                  CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                  CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                  Comment

                                  • Paul Ebert
                                    Senior Member
                                    • May 2004
                                    • 402

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                    I'm not a personal fan of the RS150 and RS125, so this is an interesting alternative.
                                    Why is that?

                                    Comment

                                    • JonMarsh
                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 15261

                                      #19
                                      Lower Xmax and Sd compared with RS180; no better linear distortion, average CSD (another way of looking at linear distortion).

                                      I mean, they're not "bad", but you can't really use them significantly higher in frequency (IMO) than the RS180, and with all the other disadvantages compared with the RS180, my usual reaction is, "Huh? Why bother?" All of these pretty much require either an all pass 3rd at 1800 or 4th at 2200, and I really don't care so much for the latter, because linear distortion effects (energy storage, seen in CSD and shaped sine burst testing) is getting deteriorating at 1400 Hz anyway. Significant resonance in the RS150 at 1800 Hz. The ER15RLY is significantly cleaner, with 25% higher rated Xmax to boot than the RS150. The RS150 has the edge in non-linear distortion, but both are probably low enough- so the other issues are more important to me. YMMV, of course. If you've got a situation you can cross over by 1200 or so, then the lower nonlinear distortion of the RS150 will take the day- but then why not use the Rs180?

                                      I may be the odd man out here as regards my opinions- and I'm sure folks have built some speakers which they enjoy using these drivers- they just aren't my choices. (OK, I didn't wail on the RS125- about that big dip between 3K and 7 kHz, and the nice energy storage ridges at both those frequencies? With 3rd order HD amplification, it too should be crossed over below 2 kHz- that's a might small diameter driver for that limitation!

                                      Of course, that's why I picked the RS100-4 as the midrange for the inexpensive version of the Ardent- relatively clean CSD for a metal cone driver, and no ridges in the 2 - 10 kHz area! You can actually use a relatively slow roll off with just a 15 kHz trap filter with this guy! (this is the same reasoning why I'm not so enamored with the Visaton TI100- which is a good performer if you're willing to cross it low.)

                                      Now, what would really excite me is if John and Mad could bring out a driver with the response characteristics of the Accuton C79 at 1/4 the price - that would DEFINITELY be intriguing! And unlikely, too, of course. :W But if you don't ask for crème brulée, you'll keep getting vanilla ice cream.
                                      the AudioWorx
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                                      Ardent D

                                      In Development...
                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                      Obi-Wan
                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                      Modula PWB
                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                      Comment

                                      • jkrutke
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2005
                                        • 590

                                        #20
                                        Hi all, thanks for the comments. My participation on this subject will be minimal since I don't want to seem like I'm pushing a commercial product. Rest assured I'm listening and taking notes though.

                                        I have one pair I can borrow out for testing. Unfortunately, I would need them back however. They are part of my own personal 12 pulls from this batch. My designs I have here are a pair each of TM, MTM and MMTMM's. All those M's add up to 14. Eventually I want to just keep the MTM and MMTMM's around. Right now I've got a pair in my TM's, leaving one pair in the other MTM as loaners.

                                        I can send one pair to one person or split them up and get 2 testers in. I think everyone who tests drivers has my email address, so get in touch. I've got other potential test drivers laying around if interested too.

                                        Next batch I'll have more test units. (I'm personally testing for batch consistency)

                                        Note to Jed: way to steal my thunder with that awesome looking kit. :B
                                        Zaph|Audio

                                        Comment

                                        • Finleyville
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Sep 2006
                                          • 350

                                          #21
                                          I wonder how many of these will sell just because it has Zaph's name on it.... opcorn:
                                          BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                          Comment

                                          • Jed
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Apr 2005
                                            • 3617

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by jkrutke

                                            Note to Jed: way to steal my thunder with that awesome looking kit. :B
                                            :T Honestly... I don't think many have noticed yet.

                                            I'll have to do a kit with your driver next. Looks really great, John. Congrats.

                                            Comment

                                            • Hdale85
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Jan 2006
                                              • 16075

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Jed
                                              :T Honestly... I don't think many have noticed yet.

                                              I'll have to do a kit with your driver next. Looks really great, John. Congrats.
                                              Well at the price its at with the components it uses....they will notice very quickly unfortunately. Unfortunate because I'd love to get a pair but just don't have much spare cash atm.

                                              Comment

                                              • neb001
                                                Junior Member
                                                • Apr 2008
                                                • 9

                                                #24
                                                Where is Jed's kit? I'm looking all over the madisound site and can't seem to find it

                                                Comment

                                                • HareBrained
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Jul 2008
                                                  • 230

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by neb001
                                                  Where is Jed's kit? I'm looking all over the madisound site and can't seem to find it
                                                  Free support for loudspeaker projects, sourcing OEM speaker building supplies, and passive crossover design. We sell raw speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, subwoofer, midrange drivers, full range drivers), speaker kits, amplifiers, capacitors, resistors, and inductors.


                                                  Put something soft under your chin so that you don't hurt yourself when your jaw drops and hits the keyboard.
                                                  John

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Ray Tremblay
                                                    Member
                                                    • Jun 2008
                                                    • 49

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by jkrutke
                                                    My designs I have here are a pair each of TM, MTM and MMTMM's.
                                                    :B
                                                    Hey John, which tweet? I wanted to pull the trigger on a pair of these a few hours ago but I held off because I didn't know which tweeter you were using.
                                                    Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.

                                                    The Merlots
                                                    Scanspeak R2904/7000's, Scanspeak 15M4531K00's, Dayton RSS265HF-4's, MiniDSP 2x8, Class D amplification

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Rick Craig
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Jul 2006
                                                      • 391

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                      Thanks- I didn't see the PDF last night on my iPhone, it looks pretty good, though the HD3 curve has the peak around 3 kHz that I would expect- it's sort of an Excel W15CY-001 with 1.5 dB more sensitivity and at 1/4 the cost! I seem to recall that Excel was one of Zaph's favorites at one time.

                                                      Could make a killer little sealed MTM with these... but which tweeter? For parity, the tweeter shouldn't cost more than two of the midwoofers, right?

                                                      What do you want to bet John will have something like that posted soon? :W Of course, if I was doing it, I'd probably just use a modified Natalie P crossover concept (3rd order all pass, good vertical dispersion for an MTM configuration, and reasonable driver suppression).

                                                      Too bad I'm so busy already.... :W
                                                      Actually the Fs is much lower on the W15CY-001 and it has more excursion capability. I see John's driver as more of a midbass to be augmented with a subwoofer. With the small amount of x-max a MTM would give it more headroom. It would be interesting to see how it performs on a Klippel test.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Jed
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Apr 2005
                                                        • 3617

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Ray Tremblay
                                                        Hey John, which tweet? I wanted to pull the trigger on a pair of these a few hours ago but I held off because I didn't know which tweeter you were using.

                                                        If Madisound is going to offer a kit of some kind you might want to wait because they usually offer a parts discount on the sum of the parts.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Curt C
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Feb 2005
                                                          • 791

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                          Lower Xmax and Sd compared with RS180; no better linear distortion, average CSD (another way of looking at linear distortion).

                                                          I mean, they're not "bad", but you can't really use them significantly higher in frequency (IMO) than the RS180, and with all the other disadvantages compared with the RS180, my usual reaction is, "Huh? Why bother?"

                                                          I may be the odd man out here as regards my opinions-
                                                          You may be in dubious company Jon, but I also felt the RS180 brought more to the table, -even as a mid, than the 150 or 125, for much the same reasons as you portend. The Exclamations! ran with the RS180 doing mid duties, before it was upgraded to the Accuton C92 and OW5.

                                                          C
                                                          Curt's Speaker Design Works

                                                          Comment

                                                          • ---k---
                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                            • Nov 2005
                                                            • 5202

                                                            #30
                                                            Where is CJD to defend the RS150 when you need him?
                                                            - Ryan

                                                            CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                                            CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                                            CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                                            Comment

                                                            • cjd
                                                              Ultra Senior Member
                                                              • Dec 2004
                                                              • 5568

                                                              #31
                                                              Heh.

                                                              To my ear the RS180 is ever so slightly clouded above about 800Hz relative to the RS150 - on the other hand, it may be additional distortion artifacts in the RS150. To resolve this once and for all I probably should try some other mid-woofers in similarly voiced systems.
                                                              diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                                              Comment

                                                              • TacoD
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Feb 2004
                                                                • 1078

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by jkrutke
                                                                Hi all, thanks for the comments. My participation on this subject will be minimal since I don't want to seem like I'm pushing a commercial product. Rest assured I'm listening and taking notes though.

                                                                I have one pair I can borrow out for testing. Unfortunately, I would need them back however. They are part of my own personal 12 pulls from this batch. My designs I have here are a pair each of TM, MTM and MMTMM's. All those M's add up to 14. Eventually I want to just keep the MTM and MMTMM's around. Right now I've got a pair in my TM's, leaving one pair in the other MTM as loaners.

                                                                I can send one pair to one person or split them up and get 2 testers in. I think everyone who tests drivers has my email address, so get in touch. I've got other potential test drivers laying around if interested too.

                                                                Next batch I'll have more test units. (I'm personally testing for batch consistency)

                                                                Note to Jed: way to steal my thunder with that awesome looking kit. :B
                                                                I think the best selling point is a great design. And it looks like these are in the making. I wish you all the best. Any plans to make these drivers available in Europe?

                                                                Comment

                                                                • ---k---
                                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                  • 5202

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I've seen several people comparing these to the RS drivers. I'm not taking a position on which is better. But, I think we all forget that the RS drivers are over 3 years old. It is going to be interesting to see what/if PE has in the pipeline.
                                                                  - Ryan

                                                                  CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                                                  CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                                                  CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • fjhuerta
                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                    • Jun 2006
                                                                    • 1140

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Great price point, and the metal resonance seems far easier to tame than the RS150's. Awesome job, Zaph!
                                                                    Javier Huerta

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • JonMarsh
                                                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                                      • 15261

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Yes, it reminds me of why I'm often attracted to shiny things! Combine it with a tweeter that's happy down low, and you could have all kinds of flexibility about crossover choices.

                                                                      Don't you think you should do an open back MTM midrange with these, Javier, like your recent open baffle midrange three way? Can't you hear them calling to you? :W
                                                                      the AudioWorx
                                                                      Natalie P
                                                                      M8ta
                                                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                                                      Modula MT XE
                                                                      Modula Xtreme
                                                                      Isiris
                                                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                                                      SMJ
                                                                      Minerva Monitor
                                                                      Calliope
                                                                      Ardent D

                                                                      In Development...
                                                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                      Obi-Wan
                                                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                      Modula PWB
                                                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Paul Ebert
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • May 2004
                                                                        • 402

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                                        Yes, it reminds me of why I'm often attracted to shiny things! Combine it with a tweeter that's happy down low, and you could have all kinds of flexibility about crossover choices.

                                                                        Don't you think you should do an open back MTM midrange with these, Javier, like your recent open baffle midrange three way? Can't you hear them calling to you? :W
                                                                        Yes, exactly, with a Seas L26Roy. But which tweeter? It'd be nice aesthetically, if it had a silver faceplate, but the only ones I'm aware of are the Scan Speaks. Seems odd to match it with such pricey partners.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • cotdt
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Oct 2005
                                                                          • 393

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by cjd
                                                                          Heh.

                                                                          To my ear the RS180 is ever so slightly clouded above about 800Hz relative to the RS150 - on the other hand, it may be additional distortion artifacts in the RS150. To resolve this once and for all I probably should try some other mid-woofers in similarly voiced systems.
                                                                          My experience EXACTLY. Some energy storage seems to start at 1kHz according to the graphs, so it kinda makes sense.

                                                                          Regarding Zaph's new midrange, I'm excited!!! The data looks great!

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Dave Bullet
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Jul 2007
                                                                            • 474

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Nice looking driver. I like metal cones
                                                                            Good frame
                                                                            Good use of copper in the motor
                                                                            Luverly flat response
                                                                            9KHz main breakup (nice and high)
                                                                            Good low non-linear distortion...
                                                                            Consistency in production..

                                                                            Then I thought - well, that's probably a $80+ (looks better on paper than the Seas L15 - excluding xmax and that is roughly $80 isn't it?)... and to see the ZA14W08 is only $39.... Way to go John! :T

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • jkrutke
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Dec 2005
                                                                              • 590

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by Ray Tremblay
                                                                              Hey John, which tweet? I wanted to pull the trigger on a pair of these a few hours ago but I held off because I didn't know which tweeter you were using.
                                                                              Probably no surprise, Vifa DQ25. The MMTMM design needed all of it's 95 dB. As far as highly sensitive small flange tweeters, there's really only one choice. I'll never get into tweeter design because I just can't beat that. For those who want to roll their own MMTMM here's a couple others that I considered: Scan 7100, and the 18sound ND1060 on a XT120 horn. Both awesome, but not exactly screaming value the same way.

                                                                              Originally posted by TacoD
                                                                              I think the best selling point is a great design. And it looks like these are in the making. I wish you all the best. Any plans to make these drivers available in Europe?
                                                                              The designs are done but need to be tweaked to be salable. Apparently, I used some Bennic caps that don't actually exist anywhere but my closet and I don't know how I got them. Plus Eagle resistors are on their way out of stock and I've gotten used to using their non-standard values over the years.

                                                                              As far as alternative vendors, I'm considering it. I've been contacted by a couple who are interested. One of the reasons I went with Madisound is that they have good international shipping policies. If I do allow other vendors, it will likely be through Madisound's dealer program. That will make Madisound the primary warehouse and still allow me a close local location to do my QC checks.

                                                                              Could I ask a couple international folks what your average shipping cost in USD is from Madisound? For roughly something the size of a couple woofers, tweeters and misc parts for a 2-way pair.
                                                                              Zaph|Audio

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • ---k---
                                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                • Nov 2005
                                                                                • 5202

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Zaph,
                                                                                So this truly is your driver that Madisound is buying from you? I had assumed that Madisound had employed you to design a driver and lend your name to one of their products.
                                                                                - Ryan

                                                                                CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                                                                CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                                                                CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Ray Tremblay
                                                                                  Member
                                                                                  • Jun 2008
                                                                                  • 49

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by jkrutke
                                                                                  Probably no surprise, Vifa DQ25. The MMTMM design needed all of it's 95 dB. As far as highly sensitive small flange tweeters, there's really only one choice.
                                                                                  Thanks for the heads up on that tweeter, John. :T

                                                                                  Will this MMTMM design be a 2.5 way? What's the baffle width?
                                                                                  Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.

                                                                                  The Merlots
                                                                                  Scanspeak R2904/7000's, Scanspeak 15M4531K00's, Dayton RSS265HF-4's, MiniDSP 2x8, Class D amplification

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • cotdt
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Oct 2005
                                                                                    • 393

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by Dave Bullet
                                                                                    Nice looking driver. I like metal cones
                                                                                    Good frame
                                                                                    Good use of copper in the motor
                                                                                    Luverly flat response
                                                                                    9KHz main breakup (nice and high)
                                                                                    Good low non-linear distortion...
                                                                                    Consistency in production..

                                                                                    Then I thought - well, that's probably a $80+ (looks better on paper than the Seas L15 - excluding xmax and that is roughly $80 isn't it?)... and to see the ZA14W08 is only $39.... Way to go John! :T
                                                                                    It's more comparable to the Excel W15 than the L15, but slightly smaller, like a hypothetical "Excel W14" and the distortion measurements and 9kHz breakup peaks are as predicted. It's 1.5dB more efficient though, would serve as a GREAT midrange, for only $39 it's a steal!

                                                                                    I am going to buy a pair and use it in a 3-way of my own design (unless Jed is going to come up with one first, then I'll just use his). To me it just doesn't seem to have the extension for an MTM.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • davey_m
                                                                                      Member
                                                                                      • Nov 2008
                                                                                      • 37

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      How about a 4 ohms version for some additional flexibility for midrange usage?

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Bear
                                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                                        • Dec 2008
                                                                                        • 1038

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        It would be great if Madisound would truncate the frames for "large orders". (Mmmm... line array...)
                                                                                        Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • fjhuerta
                                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                                          • Jun 2006
                                                                                          • 1140

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Curt C
                                                                                          You may be in dubious company Jon, but I also felt the RS180 brought more to the table, -even as a mid, than the 150 or 125, for much the same reasons as you portend. The Exclamations! ran with the RS180 doing mid duties, before it was upgraded to the Accuton C92 and OW5.

                                                                                          C
                                                                                          Add one more... I've used the 125 on an MTM and the 150 on an MT, and I was surprised I couldn't run them much higher than the 180.
                                                                                          Javier Huerta

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