Filling a missing niche in accomplished designs

[Jed]

I've been thinking about working on a speaker project that might be used by a greater audience than myself, and I was wondering what type of project people would like to see that isn't already in progress. The purpose would be to build something unique, but with budget in mind. I'm open to hear what you might be waiting for because it could just be something that can be developed this month.

Edit:

See the Lineup Maxx Build Thread and Lineup Series Build Thread for detailed info on the results of the project(s).

[---k---]

It seems like the most unanswered requests are for small, budget speakers, on wall or near wall, and especially for surrounds. It seems like the ModulaMT are beyond some people's budgets, and size limits. Everyone seems to want Bose and a walmart budget.

Other than that, I think that between the RS150MT, CJD RS150MTM, ModulaMT, NatP, the DM RS WWMT, Jon's new WMTW, my upcoming Khanspire's, and CJD's big 3-ways, there is almost an RS project of every size and shape in Mission Accomplished. Just the RS125 is missing.

Though, I'm not sure a small budget speaker is an interesting project, but it is what I see the most unanswered requests for.

[JasonB]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a low budget fully passive open baffle speaker that's good down to 100hz or so. One that could be crossed to a powered sub through a typical 5.1 reciever. The lack of such a project has kept me from trying out open baffle speakers so far, I think their might be some interest for a project like this from others as well.

Jason

[Hdale85]

A VERY small 2 way MTM. Like 6" wide 12" tall. I don't know would be interesting. I know it wouldn't play to low? I see computer speakers requested once in a while and something like this would be doable for computer speakers I would say. Especially paired with a small 8" sub. I don't know just an idea Could see the W4-1337SA being used for the mids. Sounds interesting for me anyways. I know they aren't quite as cheap as the dayton drivers but they aren't far off. I've been thinking about building my brother in law a set of speakers for christmas and this would definitely be something I'd be interested.

[NateTTU]

I agree with k. I know I'm a noob and have contributed nothing (so far) to this forum. However, I have read many of these threads, some multiple times especially those in the completed section, and have found most requests are for surrounds. (in wall/on wall designs) We have some excellent choices for towers, bookshelves, and centers. However, most of the time when I see surrounds mentioned it soon is followed with a response to use the modula MTs. Certainly not a bad choice, but why is that really the only one?

[Dennis H]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a low budget fully passive open baffle speaker that's good down to 100hz or so. One that could be crossed to a powered sub through a typical 5.1 reciever. The lack of such a project has kept me from trying out open baffle speakers so far, I think their might be some interest for a project like this from others as well.

Jason

I'm with Jason. A budget, passive, open-baffle speaker that will hit 80 Hz to use with the THX crossover in receivers and has receiver-friendly impedance and power requirements. If I were trying it, I'd look at the BG Neo3 (back removed for dipole), Peerless 6" Exclusive and a pair of big midwoofers, maybe the 12" Peerless SLS or maybe something else. Low slopes would be good to keep the XO cost low so that would be a factor in driver selection. Go for a flat baffle, maybe 13-14" wide, to keep construction simple and WAF high.

[Jed]

Just the RS125 is missing.

This is a possibility, for sure. Keep the ideas coming guys.

[Mark K]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a low budget fully passive open baffle speaker that's good down to 100hz or so. One that could be crossed to a powered sub through a typical 5.1 reciever. The lack of such a project has kept me from trying out open baffle speakers so far, I think their might be some interest for a project like this from others as well.

Jason

Well,

I guess it depends on your idea of low budget and "passive."

http://www.markk.claub.net/whats_new.htm

It will only need 2 channels, but still will require active dipole eq. Maybe down to 50hz though.

[cobbpa]

I guess low-cost is all about defining budget. The TriTrix MT are there & pretty low-cost, but I haven't heard those, so I can't comment. I don't think there's an on-wall xover for those though, so there might be an opening there, as was already mentioned. For a small on-wall design, the Ti Tangband & maybe the silk Vifa Jon's using in his 3 way could make for a high, shallow, somewhat cheap crossover. Just an idea...haven't looked at the 125's response, but I'd guess there's a breakup that would need taming / extra parts.

[Jed]

Here's my idea of a budget speaker, as an example.

MTMW-Mains

RS125-4, SEAS TDFC, RS125-4, and RS225-8

MTM- Center, and/or Surrounds
RS125-4, TDFC, RS125-4

RS210-Sub

[Jonasz]

I vote for JasonB/Mark K's suggestion, cheap passive dipole good to around 100 hz or a closed box tweeter/RS52/RS225/RS225 3.5-way.

[Jed]

Looks like Mark K has the open baffle speaker project in the works. I have simulation software coming for open baffle speakers coming- but my background has been monopoles thus far.

As for dual RS225s, Jonas, that's one big box unless one wants a sealed box which is doable. And good for the budget if going with 1 RS225.

But I'll let you guys decide.

[Gir]

I'd really love to get my dad to build some speakers with me, but the main problem is space. I'd love to see a speaker design that's really tiny - say so more than 6" x 10" - and also hits well on a small budget. Zaph has his fullrange B3S, but getting a MT in box that size would be really great. Like some of the others said, getting a small design for a small budget.

[Jed]

Post drivers you guys are interested in too.

[Hdale85]

Well deffinately that neo tangband. It's small and seems to be very easy and cheap to build a crossover for. Not sure of a tweeter that would match up to it though. Being a 4" driver I'm sure it could be in a nice small enclosure. I'm not to familiar with tweets so someone else would have to chime in with a tweet to match it.

[Jed]

The W4 titanium driver is nice and cleaner than the RS125 above 2k but the RS125 is "generally" cleaner from 300hz to 1k.

If the W4 is used, a small neo tweeter would work well crossed at 3.5-4K.

If the RS125 is used, something like the inexpensive but excellent performing Seas TDFC crossed at 2k would work well.

Both systems will be about the same price because the TB is double the price of RS, but the RS requires a more expensive tweeter.

Tradeoffs.

[Landroval]

Other than that, I think that between the RS150MT, CJD RS150MTM, ModulaMT, NatP, the DM RS WWMT, Jon's new WMTW, my upcoming Khanspire's, and CJD's big 3-ways, there is almost an RS project of every size and shape in Mission Accomplished. Just the RS125 is missing.

It's not here, but RJB has three different RS125 variants. One with Tang Band T25-1166S, one with RS28 and one with Seas 22TAF/G:

http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html

In my opinion there's missing:

- High efficiency project. Something in the 100dB/1W/1m class

- Narrow floorstander with sidefiring woofers (à la Audio Physic etc.)

- Small 3 way where a ~3" midrange would take care of ~800-4500Hz.

- Fullrange project, e.g. with the TangBand Titanium 4"

[Jed]

It's not here, but RJB has three different RS125 variants. http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html

I know Roman's designs very well. You can read my review of his Microbe design at his website as I've been to his house and listened to many of his designs.

The RS125 that I propose using would be the 4-ohm version in series. We'll see where the suggestions lead us though and if there is truly a general conclusion on design or designs that you all would like me to build, and post here with fully documented process, measurements, distortion tests, and final crossover tweaks all worked into the thread.

[cotdt]

we need something small, but good-sounding, and cheap!

[Hdale85]

I'm going to say cheap would be then 400 or less. I think this is reasonable. I was thinking a small 3way that would be slim. But then that a little MTM or MT would be nice too. People want like 200 dollar speakers but I think doing that with real good SQ is unrealistic. So I say 400ish.

[JonP]

It's not here, but RJB has three different RS125 variants. One with Tang Band T25-1166S, one with RS28 and one with Seas 22TAF/G:

http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html

There is another not posted Microbe design, an MTM! Ask Dan of the Mentor and HOSS omni projects here, he built a set as I remember. Or, just ask Roman...

As for the B3S, check out the "Cinderella's" that Curt C and Wayne Wendel came up with... a MTM with B3S's in a narrow towers, with 8" drivers at the bottom.

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/index.html

I'm also rather interested in a small, full range set of speakers. Thinking about a smaller set of mains with a small sub below each. Been batting around a few ideas, I'll let you know if any brainstorms occur...

[kingpin]

Geez. You guys and your small speakers.

How about a 3-way with some slam to it.
Doesn't have to be huge. To reduce size can be made pyramid style. No side firing woofs.

Something maybe using the Dayton RS 15" sub or even one of the eminence 15"drivers.

I think this would add another style of speaker that isn't so much like the others on this board.

Just my .02c.

Mike

[powens]

I think a speaker design using a paper(or something similiar) woofer would be a good addition. There are many good designs in the mission accomplished section, but just about all of them use metal cone woofers. I can't speak for everyone else, but I have found I generally prefer the sound of paper woofers. They seem to be a little more forgiving of the typical recording. I think a design using a non-metal woofer would add some diversity to the mission accomplished section and give people a different option when looking for a design to build.

[Satansfx]

Metal!!! a 3/4-way design using aluminum drivers..... maybe a ribbon tweet or horn/compression driver. Something not too large, but def not small. Something that even uses muliple drivers.

[Wilk]

I'll probably get kicked off the forum for bringing an idea like this up because it is well below your guys regular standards, but I'll say it anyways.

I would really like to see a more traditional inwall/ceiling speaker design using these "Inwall mounting system" . I think alot more people would be able to do this versus a inwall box system.

I have seen alot of post about people not having room for this or that design. This could be a great compromise for alot of people.

[PoorboyMike]

I like the idea of a complete line up using the TB titanium mid. At the top of the chain would be a slim tower with an MTM at the top and an 8" (or 2 7s?) woofer down low. Next would be an MTM, then an MT, and finally a full range version. For a center, how about a 2 way MTM and 2.5 way MMTMM? Not sure on the tweeter, but the Vifa that Jon is using seems very nice.

This line of speakers would give people a choice of sizes for a high quality, all matching "system".

I would be willing to buy some of the drivers and parts to help develop such a system. :T

[Jim Holtz]

If the W4 is used, a small neo tweeter would work well crossed at 3.5-4K.

Hi Jed,

Since you're considering a W4, I'll throw out an idea for an inexpensive 3-way. How about an Usher 8137A 8" woofer/W4-1337SA mid and an Aura NT1 tweeter. The NT1 is extremely low distortion above 4K and is bargain priced. The 8137A looks good in about a 45-50 liter cabinet with a F3 in the low 30's.

How about open back/transmission line for the W4? I know how good that sounds. :T

8137A - $64
W4 -1337SA- $54
NT1 - $9

That should be a speaker with sound quality way beyond the cost of components. BTW, I have (4) RS125-4 drivers in the store room that I don't know what to do with. If you go that route, I'm good too. Another tweeter that seems to be a good match for the W4 would be the Seas 22TAFG. It is ultra low distortion above 4K.

EDIT: The new 8" sub from PE also looks like a possibility if it's clean enough to cross up to 350 Hz. or so. Modeling it in Unibox in a 40 liter cabinet comes up with a F3 of around 24 Hz. Another possibility.

My $.02 worth...

Jim

[sprint_9]

A 2.5.5 way with four of the same woofers maintaining an 8 ohm load for easy intregration with nearly all amps in existance. I would like something like this for possibly mains and the center, center especially as it would look better sitting under a 16.9 TV as it would be wider and shorter fitting the overall dementions of the TV better then some designs.

I also like the idea of a cheap and small surround speaker using the RS 125 as the woofer and maybe the RS28 or Seas or both for some options for those who want to build.

The Dipole idea looks intriging too, whatever the project ends up its win win for me since Im newb and will likely learn something through the process.

[Jed]

I would be willing to buy some of the drivers and parts to help develop such a system. :T

Once things get rolling that would be great!

Looks like the general concensus is people would like:

W4 in Fullrange, MTM, MMTMMW

If we use the same drivers I could do more than one configuration.

Basic, Moderate, and Ultimate versions.

Edit: This could happen with many different drivers, but for development purposes if we could decide on a midrange it would make the R&D much simpler. We could set up a vote or something once all the drivers are listed.

[Jed]

I think a speaker design using a paper(or something similiar) woofer would be a good addition. There are many good designs in the mission accomplished section, but just about all of them use metal cone woofers. I can't speak for everyone else, but I have found I generally prefer the sound of paper woofers. They seem to be a little more forgiving of the typical recording. I think a design using a non-metal woofer would add some diversity to the mission accomplished section and give people a different option when looking for a design to build.

I bet you would like the W4 as it doesn't have a typical metal cone distortion profile. That said, we can definitely entertain paper drivers. If you have a specific design in mind, let us know.

[Hdale85]

MMTMMW sounds expensive :B. Probably would be an awesomely nice slim tower though. Anyone got a link to the new PE 8"? I couldn't seem to find it...

[Jed]

MMTMMW sounds expensive :B. Probably would be an awesomely nice slim tower though. Anyone got a link to the new PE 8"? I couldn't seem to find it...

Its in the RSs210 thread. And you can get 4 RS125 for the price of 2 TB W4, so we'll see.

The more I think about it, the more it makes more sense to use the RS125s in an MMTMMW because you have to cross low, like less than 2k in an MTM to minimize vertical lobing issues, and that is essentially where the RS125 outperforms the W4. Not to say it couldn't be done, but from a performance standpoint and cost standpoint, multiple RS125s makes a lot of sense. Just food for thought.

[TacoD]

Small 3-way
3-way with RS150 , Seas tweeter and 25cm woofer

[Hdale85]

Yeah the MMTMMW wouldn't be something I'd be to interested in honestly. The MTM with W4's sounds great though. not that the MMTMMW isn't interesting just not what I'm looking for right now.

[Jed]

Yeah the MMTMMW wouldn't be something I'd be to interested in honestly. The MTM with W4's sounds great though. not that the MMTMMW isn't interesting just not what I'm looking for right now.

I could develop more than one variation if using the same mids. That way in the end, the builder could choose which version best suites his/her needs.

[TacoD]

You can better buy more expensive drivers and do a 3-way, than such a complex behemoth.

If you want something complex build a 4-way Duelund with a seperate woofer tower and one main tower .

[Jed]

You can better buy more expensive drivers and do a 3-way, than such a complex behemoth.

If you want something complex build a 4-way Duelund with a seperate woofer tower and one main tower .

Taco,

I think people are looking for narrow designs/cheap.

But you are right, there isn't a 4-way Duelund in the Accomplished Designs section yet. That might be something you or I develop on our own and post sometime down the road.

So, to get things rolling. How do you guys feel about the following.

W4 fullrange mini speaker or MT with small neo tweeter.

W4 MTM

W4 MTMW (sidemounted woofer) 2-way with active bass.
W4 MTMW with RS225 front firing in a 10" wide box. With top section modular in about 8" wide.

Too bad the W4s are kinda pricey, would that prevent a lot of folks from building one of the above?

Jed

[Hdale85]

Yeah sounds good.

[Hdale85]

that MTMW side mount sounds interesting. All of those sound very interesting actually. The W4 MT, MTM could be a great little 5.1 setup. Especially if you can design the MTM so it can flipped on its side. Not sure if that would add a lot of extra parts though?

[---k---]

Jed,
It sort of sounds to me like you are doing this to be a good netizen. I think you should find someone that actually plans on building these. The do like CJD and I are doing, I built the boxes, bought the parts, and CJD is doing all the designing. You shouldn't have to bear all the burden.

I also was trying to imply that I would like to see something other than the RS series used for a little variety.

[Jed]

It wouldn't be a burden at all. I like building speakers and I've been planning a budget design for some time. I just want to open up some possiblities so others can give suggestions of what type of design they would like to see and most importantly, build. It wouldn't be hard for me to say, design a little W4 full range now, and then modify to include a tweeter, now that I've got all the tools to do so with LSPCad etc.

I think it would be nice to have a flexible design that can also be upgraded along the way as more funds become available. For example. One could start with woofer A, then add another, then another and have developed crossovers for each step towards the "ultimate" budget tower speaker.

[Hdale85]

For the MTMW sidemount what woofer were you thinking? Something like the TB 6" subwoofer as they call it might work? not sure how deep it is though. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=264-832 5 1/2 inches deep could work out well? The magnet structer is pretty small still too so the enclosure could stay small enough? Were you thinking like a tower MTMW? or still a bookshelf? I could see the sidemount being a bookshelf MTMW with something like this.

[Jed]

For the MTMW sidemount what woofer were you thinking? Something like the TB 6" subwoofer as they call it might work? not sure how deep it is though. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=264-832 5 1/2 inches deep could work out well? The magnet structer is pretty small still too so the enclosure could stay small enough? Were you thinking like a tower MTMW? or still a bookshelf? I could see the sidemount being a bookshelf MTMW with something like this.

I was thinking more in lines of a tower for the MTM(S). The sidefiring "woofer/sub" could be a stand for the MTM section, that way users could choose what type of bass bin they want to use.

I'd also like to explore a 3 way with MTMW with a front firing or side firing woofer. It all depends on what people are really wanting though.

[Hdale85]

Well then I'd probably just build the MTM and build a small sub like the RSS210HF for my brother in law for christmas gift. Work as computer speakers.

[Landroval]

Hmm.. MTMW with the W4-1337SA sounds very much like the current Statements. Just one woofer missing. Where's all the imagination if I may ask?