Look out dlp, Sony's coming atcha

[George Bellefontaine]

New LCD with increased ratio, etc.:

http://www.Sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200302/03-008E/




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)

[JonMarsh]

Since this is a PR news release, reproduction in parts is OK.

This looks to be Sony's answer to the high res 1080P LCOS Toshiba TV. Sign me up for the FPTV version when it comes out- wonder how how many 7-11's I'll need to knock over to afford one?



Sony

The outstanding picture quality generated by SXRD is due to the large number of pixels contained within the image area of the device. For this to be achieved both the size of each individual pixel and the space between pixels has been minimized. The combination of radically designed Silicon Driving Circuit technology and novel Silicon Wafer Process Technology, coupled with new Liquid Crystal Device technology, has enabled 2,000,000 pixels with a pitch of 9um to be arranged just 0.35um apart (Diagram1-a). This is the world's smallest inter-pixel spacing*2 thus delivering full HDTV (1920Hx1080V, 16:9 widescreen format) within an image area measuring a mere 0.78 inches diagonally across.
In comparison to high temperature Poly-Silicon liquid crystal devices, this represents a 2.4- fold increase in pixel density, and a 10-fold improvement in inter-pixel spacing.
These advances have facilitated the achievement of a high-grade, high-resolution picture quality previously unseen on fixed-pixel projection devices, with outstanding cinematic quality and image smoothness that can be enjoyed free from the grainy "mesh" effect noticeable on conventional projectors.
*2 Current data, based on Sony research



http://audioworx.virtualave.net/Sony%200219_a.jpg



High Contrast and Rapid Response Time
In Sony's SXRD device the liquid crystal cell gap measures less than 2um, far thinner than conventional high temperature Poly-Silicon liquid crystal or LCOS(Liquid Crystal On Silicon)devices (Diagram1-b). Furthermore, in place of the TN(Twisted Nematic)liquid crystal commonly used in projection devices, Sony's unique "Vertically Aligned Liquid Crystal" materials, whereby the liquid crystal molecules are aligned vertically to the cell substrates have been used. The materials have been developed to provide good driving voltages and high quality optical properties, even in such thin cells, ensuring high contrast images that would otherwise be unachievable with conventional TN devices (Diagram1-b).
These innovations have made a high panel contrast level of 3000:1, and very rapid 5 milli-second response time a reality. This represents an approximately threefold increase over conventional projector contrast levels.




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[George Bellefontaine]

At 1080p, I have a feeling that Sony will really price this high. What do you think the msrp will be, Jon ?




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)

[Burke Strickland]

I have a feeling that Sony will really price this high
Sony aims to introduce front projectors and rear projection products incorporating this technology to the market within the next fiscal year.
At least we'll have something tangible to drool over in the next year or so. And in the past (even the very recent past), Sony has typically upset the apple cart in the projector arena with aggressive competitive pricing, so even if the initial products are priced really high (at least in comparison to Sony's current LCD projectors), I would expect the technology to trickle down to more reasonably priced units within a few years at the most.

Burke

[JonMarsh]

Well, the Toshiba RPTV with a comparable chip is about $8K. But then again, that was the list price of Sony 10HT's, also. So, with luck, in a few years it could drift down to the $5K level... a real deal, huh? Actually, it would be, if they realize the potential of the panel and it's resolution and contrast ratio. This could be it for a long time- I wouldn't imagine needing an upgrade the rest of my life!

-Jon




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[SayersWeb]

This could be it for a long time- I wouldn't imagine needing an upgrade the rest of my life!

LOL! How many times have you said that before? My wife hears it from me all of the time!




Sayer - Musical Creations (http://ampcast.com/sayer) and Home Page (http://sayersweb.com)

[JonMarsh]

Well, actually, I haven't!

But let's think about this. If someone gave me a G90 Sony front projector, which does a very credible job with HD at 1280X720 as well as being able to hit 1920X1080P (maybe a touch soft, though), just what would I be able to upgrade to from that? Realistically?

Now, if we have an LCOS based chip for FPTV and RPTV that doesn't have the convergence issues of a CRT, has the wonderful fill factor of LCOS (even better than DLP) without any screen door effect, will run at a native resolution substantially higher than current digital cinema solutions, has no "rainbow" motion artifacts as single chip DLP projectors suffer from, and "theoretically" offers a contrast ratio (for the chip- add optics and it will drop) of 3000:1, what, practically speaking, is there to improve? An FPTV with say 800 to 1000 lumens (or better) and these characteristics would really be my "dream" monitor.

Remember, most of what is sold on your local A/V emporiums as HD ready sets can hardly do NTSC properly without a supplemental convergence and color calibration- it takes very little convergence misalignment to kill the picture resolution. I know, I've got too many friends with new Tosh 57" RPTV's that I can't stand to watch for very long because of the picture artifacts, and those are pretty decent sets (as the industry goes) out of the box. But the industry doesn't go very well. Just look at the compalints on AVS forum about all the HTPC guys trying out there computer desktops on their HDTV, and compaining because the text is fuzzy compared with PC monitor even when they're only runningg 960X540P on the HDTV, much less true high res!

OK, maybe I'm over doing the cynical bit. But go look at DVD, much less HDTV, on a good high res computer monitor. THATS what a display in your home for vide should be able to do- not the softened, edge sharpened (with ringing) that we often have to put up with.

So, the reason I'm excited about products like the Toshiba LCOS display and the this new Sony SXRD panel (which looks to be the same thing; also a reflective panel technology), is that true high resolution, without screen door, without motion artifacts, and with good contrast ratio should be possible at a relatively attainable price.

Otherwise, when I get my daughter out of college, I'd have to choose between buying a used NSX or a Sony G90 to celebrate- sure wouldn't be able to afford both! But a digital projector based on this kind of technology may make me not care bout a high res CRT projector anymore. Even with 4:3 material, this chip would do about 1365X1080. That's still Digital Cinema equivalent, without the anamorhpic squeeze.

Best regards,

Jon




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[JonMarsh]

Even sites focused on the insider news of the computer business are taking note of the Sony SXRD display chip development....


http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7979

There summary is well taken, particularly the bit about whether Sony can bring this out at reasonable price points...

-Jon




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[George Bellefontaine]

Well, Jon, I am with you. If this thing was priced somewhere around $6000 CDN it would also be my last upgrade. And if I had been fortunate ( or rich enough) to own a G90 I wouldn't need to upgrade again ever, either.




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)

[JonMarsh]

I'm totally with you, George- well engineered sets with this kind of display technology in an RPTV or FPTV would set a whole new standard- the real question is, what will be the price point? Toshiba has drawn a line in the sand with their $8K unit. If Sony or others can match it, and if plasmas do hit the price targets their proponents claim are possible in the next five years, then I think what you'll see is either wall hanging plasma TV's or true HD res LCOS projection TV's, with a very few low cost smaller CRT sets (or maybe even LCD) made in China. Those three technologies could really dominate in a five years or so. I just hope that we don't wind up giving up the color performance of the best current CRT solutions.

Best regards,

Jon




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[George Bellefontaine]

No, Jon, I wouldn't want to see any loss in color performance, either.




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)

[Brandon B]

I think GLV is likely to displace this in the medium term due to manufacturing costs (that is as soon as the lasers are really there).

Article on GLV projection company (Sony tried to buy them):

http://www.mkpe.com/articles/2000/SLM/slm.htm

And where they might get the lasers to do this:

http://compoundsemi.com/documents/view/cldoc.php3?id=2614#top


BB

[Brandon B]

Also, a coworker in our AV group evidently got to see a demo of a lab test PJ using TI's 2048x1080 DMD next generation devicce (after HD2). This will likely be released in E-cinema units by Barco, Christie and the like to the tune of $200K.

Anyway, he repeated the oft heard "film is dead". Saw 5 minute clips from various films, Moulin Rouge, Road to Perdition, AOTC, Ice Age. others. He was mightily impressed. No screendoor visible from any seating position in the theater. The specific shot that wowed him was a pan across a brick building wall in Road to Perdition. There were no dithering or motion artifacts of ANY kind, he said it was more impressive than anything he'd ever seen on film or digital projection. He spoke to someone who had been involved in the digital transfer work, and they admitted that shot had received a great deal of attention (as in the most of any part of the demo). Still, shows the capability is there.

Be nice if this is rolled out in time for Ep III (for those of us who want to see it).

So sounds like in a few years we'll be all set. Beautiful HiDef Sony SXRD or GLV units at home, and 3rd generation DMD monsters at the plex.

BB

[JonMarsh]

So sounds like in a few years we'll be all set. Beautiful HiDef Sony SXRD or GLV units at home, and 3rd generation DMD monsters at the plex.

Ah, ain't life grand! :B

Seriously, we could be set- I'd be much happier with 2048X1080 three chip DMD than anamorphic squeez on 1280X1024 for theater presentaion, as the present systems work. The thing is, these new 1920-2048 chips will be the first displays most people will see (like the new Toshiba LCOS) which can actually resolve HD signals, even though, truth be know, most "HD" signals are being filtered in luminance at about 1440, and Chroma at 720 (according to Cushman and others I've talked to). One point which amazed Gary Mearson at TPV, was that the Toshiba LCOS clearly resolved the double pixel alternating line test pattern from his Sencore HD generator (which is a pattern with only 960 lines of resolution)- no other RPTV display he's tested would do that. (But, a Sony 400Q, carefully setup for phase and overscan, will!) Which is a telling commentary on how much resolution you're really getting with the current crop of RPTVs, most still based on 7" CRT's.

One of the sharpest looking HD pictures I've ever seen still, has been on a Sony 10HT fed 1080i; it does a pretty good job down converting, and given the filtering used on HD signals and it's overscan on a 1080i input, it matches pretty well to the 1365 panel resolution.

It will be an interseting few years coming up, no doubt about it!

-Jon




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[Brandon B]

A link with descriptions by someone else who attended the demo of the new TI chips.

http://www.tech-notes.tv/Archive/tech_notes_114.pdf

BB

[George Bellefontaine]

Exciting and interesting stuff, guys.




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)

[JonMarsh]

Some excerpted commens from a guy who claims to work in Sony R&D in Europe:




SXRD is Sony lcos variant and WILL be pitched as direct competitor to dlp.
There is no retail price as yet,but a lot of conversation about this after demo!
Most believe it will retail at $8000 to $9000 for high end projector-with budget version in 2005 for $6000.
During demo SXRD was shown against three competitor projector.
I am not allowed to say models-but they are realised as best three hd2 machines at the moment.(Give you a clue though,one is from Italy!)
After demo there was much smiles I can say.
Believe me when I say that dlp was destroyed easily.
This dlp technology was referred to as slide projectors in comparison!
The prototype was not the finished article.The finished article will have compliant dvi ,aspect ratio control and an improved drc.
I would estimate the lumens on the prototype to be 1500+-but the blacks were amazing!
We watched a hd copy of l.o.t.r. and I have never seen this look so good,like when Gandalf fell into the pit-there was details on the rocks in the shadows I had never seen before!
Some of us went right to the screen and we could not see pixels??
One colleague I spoke with had seen against g90 and he said that in blackout conditions the g90 was beat by the prototype 1.(Which was not as good as 2).
It was said in buildup to presentation that Sony had wanted to see how far they could take lcd to dlp,they believed(and knew) with 12ht that they had embarrased a lot of dlp manufacturers to be able to compete with an older technology.
It was a chess move by Sony,they knew if they could equal hd2 dlp with lcd-they could destroy with SXRD.
They are very proud of the 12ht for allowing them to push the envelope of lcd technology and stated that without the 12ht they would not have been so confident in the success of lcos.
So boys,enjoy your dlp for 12 month then there will be a new kid on the block!




Interesting comments, particularly about pricing- if true, and performance is realized as expected, Sony could own the under 10K FPTV market in the same way that Trinitron Color TV's once owned the premium direct view TV market.

Best regards,

Jon




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[George Bellefontaine]

I don't want to wait until 2005. Hope it makes it to market sooner.




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)

[JonMarsh]

Hi George,

2005 is for a lower cost version (~$6k), probably with the rumored 0,5" follow on chip (not as much light output); first introduction in the 8-10K MSRP range is expected late 2003 or Q1 2004, according to this guy. These are plausible dates, considering there have been a couple of "large" internal Sony demos, including one in US, already, as well as the demo in Tokyo and Europe. If they have the optical engine and chip develpment nailed down, then the interface electronics and final packaging are probably what's left.

Sony claims to have solved high volume yeild issues for LCOS chips; they've got most of the functionality integrated into the actual Si chip, as opposed to having more subsequent critical manufacturing steps when assembling the final panel. If true, this would make a huge difference in quality and ability to deliver panels without defects. Then, the rest of it shouldn't cost much more than a 12HT; probably need a bit better optics, but lets remember Toshiba is marketing an LCOS RPTV for ~8K street price, so this seems a reasonable target.

Frankly, with the performance they claim, even at $15K they would pretty much obsolete the G90 ($35K), and sell a heck of a lot of them; at ~$10K or so, they would almost own the high end (> $5K) HT digital projection market unless the HD2 DLP guys could drop their prices a lot and still make money. I think only Infocus, with their 7200, might be able to do that.

Best regards,

Jon




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[George Bellefontaine]

03/04 sounds better, Jon. Thanks.




My Homepage! (http://www.mts.net/~glendap/george.htm)