Panny Gen9 Displays

[MMike]

After a six month study I was all ready to buy the 50" Pro display (gen8 ) when Panny comes out with the new consumer unit. Where they just trying to piss me off? Don't they know tech crazy people will go nuts?
So I hold off and go and visit the new TH-50PX6OU at BB. Great display-case design looks like it was made for a new Wal-Mart private label. Talk about cheese.
So here is my plan. I found out the NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) convention in Las Vegas is at the end of April. IF, Panasonic is going to release the Gen 9 Pro 50" this spring it will be shown there. Otherwise I am told it might intro in September when last years Pro-series Gen 8 came out.
There is no question that the simple black bezel is the only way I am going to have one of these plasma displays in my media room.
So here is a few things I could use some commments on.
1. Anyone know when the Gen 9 Pro-Series Plasmas will be out?
2. Real life Gen 8 vs. Gen 9 viewing difference. Yeah, I know the higher contrast spec and more gradation sounds great. But is it enough to wait another 6 months?
3. Is Panasonic stupit? $3,500 for something that looks like "walmart's best"?

Anyone else waiting for the Gen 9 Pro?
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Mike :)

[aud19]

You're not alone on your view of the consumer sets :lol:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=19134

I'd tend to say wait on the pro models as even if there isn't a huge difference between generation 8/9 at least if the gen9 sets are out the gen 8's will be going for cheap ;)

Then you can at least have a choice between cheap gen8 or slightly better but more $$$ gen9.

[peterS]

you can get the current models at lower prices than the previous gens closeout prices (cost)

they have better stated contrast ratio and refresh rate (looks the same to me)
has an extra hdmi input still no cable card or vga... and its uglier

given your criteria and disire for the best i wonder why it is even your top choice relative to what a pioneer can be had for.... it is a far superior picture but if we are going that route then the same argument could be made for the elite 1080p....

to the average person (ie consumer report subscriber) the panasonic is good enough
for anyone who can even think for themselves there is better performance wise
i am familiar with the pioneer (and it is regarded as the best by many) i do know that panasonic makes a line with external processor too but my understanding is that it costs considerably more than the pioneer.....

getting the pioneer 50" is very doable for 4,500 or lower if you really want to haggle

[Shane Martin]

to the average person (ie consumer report subscriber) the panasonic is good enough
for anyone who can even think for themselves there is better performance wise
That's laughable at best. Cost is a major factor and can determine what one will and can afford. Just because he or she can't afford something doesn't mean that they can't think for themselves.

Nmike,
For your purpose if you want the black bezel then go the commercial route. The current one calibrated producing a might fine picture. If you play the waiting game you will be playing it for a long long long long time so there comes a point where you need to make a decision.

The difference between Gen 7 and Gen 8 isn't that big of a deal. I can't imagine that the difference of Gen 9 vs Gen8 will warrant waiting.

The only thing worth waiting for would be 1080P and those won't be in the $3500 range for a good while.

[peterS]

That's laughable at best. Cost is a major factor and can determine what one will and can afford. Just because he or she can't afford something doesn't mean that they can't think for themselves.


where did i mention cost? :roll:

[aud19]

I believe Shane's point is that cost can ALSO have a major effect on what people can/do purchase. Not just what the frame of the set looks like. Also, I've seen numerous calibrated Panny's that looked quite nice (for a plasma).

Can the Pioneer's look nicer? Yes. Do they cost more? Yes. Do BMW's and Porsches Drive nicer than Honda's? Yes, but I can only afford a perfectly nice Honda ;)

[peterS]

I believe Shane's point is that cost can ALSO have a major effect on what people can/do purchase. Not just what the frame of the set looks like. Also, I've seen numerous calibrated Panny's that looked quite nice (for a plasma).

Can the Pioneer's look nicer? Yes. Do they cost more? Yes. Do BMW's and Porsches Drive nicer than Honda's? Yes, but I can only afford a perfectly nice Honda ;)
my opinion is clear ... but i would caution people on the new panasonics as they do still have notable refresh rate problems and this years model added some sharpening bs that makes the picture look like it is colored by crayon
looks similar to the pictures below... the first being over sharpened on photoshop
actualy been a topic of discusion on the bestbuy forums
even had a return today do to its bad picture quality

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/petesieber/helix2sharpened.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/petesieber/helix2.jpg

[Snap]

Well I have good news and bad news. Panny has been having problems with production of their stuff. Product has been on back order in some cases for several months. They make a sweet unit and the price is very nice.

Here is some food for thought.

I read about about the need for "solid Black" for the display. Well LG desided to make a move on plasmas and the prices for the 06 LG's have droped over a grand on some units.

So here is something to look at.

50 inch Solid Black Plasma HDTV, 10,000:1 Contrast ration, 2 year war. 160 gig build in DVR!

MAP: $4199

This version is avail to custom installers only, and will not be sold at BB, CC or your local appliance store. But any Audio dealer that has LG will be able to get this set.

I am trying to find the spec sheet to post as well.

[aud19]

I find that 10000:1 measurement a bit suspect..... Wouldn't mind seeing an independant test of that ;)

[peterS]

I find that 10000:1 measurement a bit suspect..... Wouldn't mind seeing an independant test of that ;)
there is no unit of contrast so i dont know how one proves or disproves that

so what is the difference between that lg and this one http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7675777&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat33900050026&id=1134702498578
id agree they are nice :T

[aud19]

there is no unit of contrast so i dont know how one proves or disproves that

There's a couple of ways of measuring contrast Peter. You can measure the full on/off (white/black screen) foot lamberts and compare those numbers for a contrast ratio or you can measure what's known as an ANSI checkerboard pattern (black and white squares, sample below: )

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/imageview.php?image=1981

[peterS]

There's a couple of ways of measuring contrast Peter. You can measure the full on/off (white/black screen) foot lamberts and compare those numbers for a contrast ratio or you can measure what's known as an ANSI checkerboard pattern (black and white squares, sample below: )

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/imageview.php?image=1981
what i am arguing is that manufacturer A states contrast 1:4,000
while manufacturer B states 1:1,300
yet manufacturer B will have subjectively superior contrast
the numbers are marketed
to say a tv has great contrast is one thing, but to say that it has so and so a ratio makes me cringe
this just seems to be one of the many numbers in electronics that are exaggerated (in some cases) or flat out marketed (no correlation to reality)

i would be interested in more info if you have got it on how one measures it

[aud19]

I find that 10000:1 measurement a bit suspect..... Wouldn't mind seeing an independant test of that ;)

That would be why I said this Peter. An independant, standardized test ;) For example Home Theatre Mag measures both forms of contrast measurements when it reviews displays.

[Shane Martin]

Well LG desided to make a move on plasmas and the prices for the 06 LG's have droped over a grand on some units.
They are the top maker of plasma displays but not the top seller. You do the math ;) People just aren't buying them. To me LG's have an issue as their blacks tend to be a bit cloudy for lack of a better term. The picture isn't as smooth as it is on a Pioneer, Fujitsu or Panasonic display(aka the top 3). Sound and Vision points this out seemingly everytime they review an LG display.

That's not even discussing the fact they are a goldstar which was well known to folks to be a walmartish level of quality.

[Snap]

there is no unit of contrast so i dont know how one proves or disproves that

so what is the difference between that lg and this one http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7675777&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat33900050026&id=1134702498578
id agree they are nice :T

You and Shane have good points. I did not quote Shane as I am not smart enough to quote 2 different post. LG wants all markets. They have several lines. For example BB can not get the "Custom Installer" line of Plasma's and LCD's. Those are sold only to AV stores. From what I know, there is upgrades in screen, glass, and some other stuff inside. There are several companies that do that. Like Mits has I believe their balck diamand line or double diamond line that is sold only to Custom AV stores, and not to BB or CC. Toshiba I think only sells their Cinema Line to Custom AV guys.

Basically the companies realize that if the Custom AV companies go away so does a large amount of their money. But they have to offer something to the AV guys that is different than the big box pushers. There is no way that a local AV store can go up against BB or CC. The only way that they can survive is service, and a different product that is not availible at BB.

Kind of like Yamaha. They have the STR line for the big box pushers, and the RXV line for Custom AV stores.

I do agree that LG does not make the best plasma, I think Fujitsu makes the best but I do not have the loot for that!

I really like the Panny Comercial line really nice displays as far as PQ goes, and they look nice as well. That is the big problem that I have with Toshiba Plasmas. They have goo PQ but the case looks so UGLY! just the the Sony XBR1 40 inch LCD. Good unit, but UGLY case for sure!

[eddiem67]

50 inch Solid Black Plasma HDTV, 10,000:1 Contrast ration, 2 year war. 160 gig build in DVR!

MAP: $4199

If there TV's work as good as there phone, then I'll pass...

I can get a Panny and a Tivo for a little over 3K, a better monitor and a box I can wire to any room in the house.

[MMike]

From MMIke0(original poster of this tread)
Thank you everyone for your concidered opinions. This forum is great for this. Sales people have knownledge but they won't always share it with you. I mean, I don't blame them-they need to eat too.
From my reading Panny Pro-Line 50" (Current model TH50PHD8UK) is still the best thing out there for me. I don't think I can wait till August or September for the Gen 9 display. Tech spec's not withstanding..When I take down the contrast and the brightness for my viewing room it won't look anything like what I see at the stores. It will just look great!
BTW-I did go running after the commerical/Av pro version of the LG 50" as the suggestion of one of the posted replys to this thread. All sound good till I spoke with my good friend who sells these displays with the Dell name on them-he works for Dell. He tells me the 42" is fantastic. The 50" has some deep contrast and resolution issues. He says they are trying a firmwear upgrade but that is a "hail mary" attempt. Maybe the fixed the problem with this new pro model. But...Maybe not..
So the only thing left is....That pesky old chestnut, Service agreement or No? I did my reading. I am leaning towards Amex to double the warranty against defects and leave the long term stuff on the table. Personally, the service agreement saved my ass on a $600 Nikon Dig Cam.
I will decide in about a week where to buy it. My next project...There are good internet merchants out there that have low prices. But you just never know who is going to jerk you around prior to delivery...But that's another thread...
Cheers!
Mike

[Snap]

Mike I hope you get it! Panny is a nice unit that will serve you well. I have had my 42 inch comercial on order for 3 weeks now, and it is going to be another 4 before I get it. Just like you are saying about not waiting for the Gen 9 it is not going to do well for Panny if they can not get their awesome product to the stores.