Where should I go from here?

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  • Drew_W
    Member
    • Dec 2003
    • 75

    Where should I go from here?

    Well, it's been an exciting year for me...my quest for good 2-channel reproduction within a multi-channel environment has had me arrive at:

    Anthem AVM-20 v2.xx
    Rotel RMB-1075
    Denon DVD-2900
    Musical Fidelity A3.24
    Monster HTS3600
    Energy Veritas 2.1 mains
    Energy Veritas 2.0Ri surrounds
    No centre yet because I can't FIND a 2.0C/Ci in Canada.

    Linn K20 speaker wire for the fronts terminated with WBT MID spades on speaker end, bananas on amp end, Monster XPHP for surrounds. Amp to processor via my own Belden 89259 with Cardas GRMO connectors. Denon 2900 to MF DAC via Monster M1000i Silver Digital, and Audioquest King Cobras from DAC to processor. Monster THX1000 Fibre Optic from 2900 to processor for surround sound. Monster M550i for multichannel from 2900 to processor.

    I don't know what it is, but for some reason, I'm still not quite happy with my system. Call it just the urge to keep changing it or tinkering around with it if you will...

    I'm interested to hear what people think and what suggestions people might have for what I should improve on. I want much stronger two-channel performance, but I'm not sure I can totally depart from the multichannel atmosphere...this isn't my primary theatre setup (although it does have much better equipment than my theatre), but I'd still prefer it to remain multichannel...unless keeping it multichannel prohibits further improvement in the 2-channel domain.

    To keep suggestions reasonable, how about keeping suggestions price wise within about double what's going to be replaced...a little more for the speakers perhaps. For example, if I were to forego the MF DAC (resale of $700US or around there), what could I put in for around $1400 ? Etc...

    I'm trying to be vague since I'd like as many ideas as possible to expand my horizons. I like the fact that I've never heard of half the brands discussed on this forum.

    Thanks in advance for any/all input!
  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    #2
    The solution could lie in getting rid of mass market interconnects in favor of solid silver high performance high value wires from my company CAT, or perhaps speaker wires (the best) also from my company Quantum. Don't take my word about it, go read the reviews, then decide.

    You've got nice gear. Certainly it could be that one piece is causing a problem, but maybe not.

    Goodluck in your quest.

    Doug
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

    Comment

    • Andrew Pratt
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 16507

      #3
      What enhancements have you done to the room? You might be stunned at how much the room plays a part in the sound you hear from your gear. Doug's recomendation on better interconnects is valid as well and as an owner of his silvercats I can testify to their abilities.

      Comment

      • SpOoNmAn
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2003
        • 518

        #4
        The acoustics in your room play the biggest role, and please dont get offended, but ditch any and all Monster interconnects you have. You probably spent an arm and a leg for some of those, when you could get better for about the same price online. Other then that, your gear list is excellent so Im confused :roll:

        And that Monster HTS looks familiar. One of those surge strips? I wont even get into those, Ill make far too many enemies here :E

        Try plugging your amp right into the wall, if that doesnt help, make sure that you have your amp into the "amp" outlet if that Monster strip has it. Hows your electrical situation where you are? Everything running on a single circuit? Lights dim or anything?

        Im a firm believer in having tons of available clean current. My system became a new beast when I installed dedicated circuits and Brickwalls.

        Theatre Photo Album (A work in Progress)
        GameTracker -My List-
        Life is short, Play it LOUD!

        Comment

        • Drew_W
          Member
          • Dec 2003
          • 75

          #5
          I got dealer discount on all that Monster stuff (which is 60% off), which is pretty much the only reason I have it. The M550is cost me I think around $36CAD a pair for 1M length, the digital cable cost me $40CAD. Can't beat that really (for the system I had last year anyways...they're due for replacement soon anyways). Monster is a ripoff for full price, but at 60% off, not all that bad. Besides, because of that substantial a discount, and the number of Monsterophiles out there, I've been able to resell all of the Monster cable I've put on the market for more than I paid for it.

          Funny you should mention the HTS though. It's a surge strip, but it's in my component rack. Anthem in the manual tells you not to plug it into those things...plug it straight into the wall. I've done the same with my Rotel amp for a while now too. The HTS is basically only filtering digital devices, and I'm beginning to wonder now whether I need it at all. Hmmmmm...

          Comment

          • SpOoNmAn
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2003
            • 518

            #6
            I assumed you were an average person who worshiped Monster cables and paid full price, you have my sincerest of apologies my friend. I will put myself in a timeout for such a mistake later on...

            moving on...

            Sure/spike/line conditioners vary so much. Have you tried the amp plugged into the HTS? If I were you, Id be trying anything and everything until you have peace of mind and ear. Trial and error works wonders :T

            Theatre Photo Album (A work in Progress)
            GameTracker -My List-
            Life is short, Play it LOUD!

            Comment

            • Burke Strickland
              Moderator
              • Sep 2001
              • 3161

              #7
              Once you reach a certain level of equipment quality, unless the equipment is chronically malfunctioning or ceases top operate at all, making major investments in new equipment "upgrades" tends to become an elusive dog-chasing-tail exercise. At that point, (and from your list, it sounds like you are pretty much "there"), typically attention to more mundane aspects of the setup render bigger benefits.

              In addition to room treatment, (to over come peaks and dips in the frequency curve), and adequate clean power being a couple of the most important but overlooked areas needing improvement in many HTs and/or music listening rooms, speaker postioning is a no cost adjustment that can pay off big time in better soundstage, more even response, etcetera. It does take an investment of some time, and careful listening, though.

              If your front main speakers are close to the front wall, for instance, (especially if they are behind the front plane of an RPTV), then pulling them out a couple of feet into the room would probably yield a huge improvement. Even if they are already well away from the wall, a slight change of toe-in angle might help too. Also, if one speaker is close to a side wall and the other is not, you may notice an imbalance that can oly be fixed by moving the close-to-wall speaker away from it, or by creating a "wall" for the other speaker to reflect against.

              Make any postional changes in small steps and take notes of your impressions. If a particular postion sound good, then mark it with tape on the floor so you can go back to it after further trials. For music, listen carefully to some representative selections, preferably involving acoustical instruments and voices rather than electrified (rap and techno may be exciting, but they are usually not good test material for system setup). :>)

              Also, I don't recognize a subwoofer on your list. If you are really "into" heavy bass and are trying to push your main speakers to provide a room-shaking bass experience with your music, such as deep-register organ music, full range symphonies or grunge rock/techno/heavy metal, even if the mains are supposed to be "full range", the addition of a good subwoofer would relieve the strain on your amp and main speakers that over-driven bass causes, smoothing out the overall sound and rendering a more satisfying listening experience in additon to cleaner bass at greater volume.

              That was a major "upgrade" for me, when I stopped trying to rely on the 15" "built in subwoofers" in my floor standing tower main speakers and added a dedicated subwoofer to my system. I guess maybe I shouldn't add that I later upgraded just about everything else in my system, :>) but those upgrades included moving to a separate pre/pro and power amps instead of a receiver, etcetera, and you've already done that.

              Have fun!

              Burke

              What you DON'T say may be held against you...

              Comment

              • David Meek
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 8938

                #8
                Don't plug any amplifier into a surge protector/filter until you have verified that the device can accomodate the amp's peak current requirements - generally speaking, inexpensive ones can't. CD players, DVD players, DACs, TV's all have fairly static current requirements and can be used with inexpensive conditioners/protectors/power units - again, as long as the total draw doesn't exceed the total available from the conditioner. Amps with their dynamic loads are a different matter entirely. Limiting the current that the amp needs may not damage it (I wouldn't bet MY amps on it), but it sure as little fishes will negatively affect the sound of what you are listening to.

                Do be careful. :yesnod:
                .

                David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                Comment

                • aud19
                  Twin Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 16706

                  #9
                  I agree, subwoofer to free up your 1075 and mains, room treatment (including speaker placement), new Cat interconnects and clean up electrical. (Some nice dedicated 20amp lines with whole house surge protection etc.)

                  From there a 2-channel amp for your mains could help with your stereo listening. You definitely need to find that centre speaker. I can't believe you can't find a V2.0ci in Canada?!? 8O Where do you live?

                  Jason
                  Jason

                  Comment

                  • Drew_W
                    Member
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 75

                    #10
                    I have an Energy S8.2 sub...forgot to mention that in my initial post, although I've been running my mains full range anyways.

                    Now as for the 2.0Ci, I meant that I can't find a used one in Canada, or available to Canada. I'm not willing to pay full price for it since I'll probably upgrade it sooner than later.

                    Comment

                    • aud19
                      Twin Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 16706

                      #11
                      So don't pay full price :B I never do! Go in, don't waste any of their time and offer them sticker minus 25% (take a calculator especially when buying multiple things). They've done no work and could have an easy albiet discounted sale. If they don't bite right away start to walk and see what they come back with (they will )Settle for somewhere around 15-20% off sticker at your own discretion. NO less than 15% though! Most speakers, (especially mid/higher-end), are about 1/2 markup. In other words a $1000 speakers likely cost the retailer about $500 so don't feel bad about getting 20-25% off especially if you walk in off the street to buy and they've had to invest no time, effort or money in to you

                      Also, sell that Energy sub and get something from Adire, HSU, SVS or Velodyne.

                      Jason
                      Jason

                      Comment

                      • Drew_W
                        Member
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 75

                        #12
                        It's an $1100CAD list speaker with a resale value of around $600. There's a refurb in Ottawa, but I haven't been able to make the drive out there. Because I tend to like turning my equipment around quickly, I don't buy retail anymore ... buying used allows for me to recover 90% at least of what I paid for it without trying too hard.

                        Resale value on my Veritas 2.1s is very low as well, but I've been wondering about new mains. I'm surprised noone mentioned anything about upgrading speakers...or components for that matter. If I do get new mains though, a new amp is probably also in order to power them.

                        I was thinking of upgrading the mains, adding a matching centre (I guess it's a bonus that I *DON'T* have a centre, so I can buy the one that matches whatever I upgrade my mains to), and adding something like the Sony DVP-S9000ES to act as a better transport for my MF DAC and for reference Stereo SACD playback. Alternately, I could sell the A3.24 and get a Tri-Vista DAC, or get some other CDP for about the same price as the Tri-Vista (MF or not).

                        Comment

                        • aud19
                          Twin Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 16706

                          #13
                          Well to be honest with you I don't think anyone out there recommended new speakers or components because what you've got is already pretty damn good. Those Veritas are damn nice speakers especially for the money and especially in Canada. More so because you're not even buying new. Are there nicer and better speakers out there? Sure but they'll cost you a fair bit more.

                          Plus IMO you're already at a level of gear that unless you do some of the things like room treatment, interconnects, clean power etc that throwing more money at gear is a waste of time and money. The world's best, most expensive gear will still sound like $hite in a crappy room, using cheap cabling and bad power. Doing those things will allow your current gear sound better and will allow any of the better gear you upgrade to in the future, to reach closer to it's full potential.

                          Jason
                          Jason

                          Comment

                          • purplepeople
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 242

                            #14
                            What's your budget? Is it $700 or $1400?

                            ensen.
                            Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it...

                            Comment

                            • Drew_W
                              Member
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 75

                              #15
                              My budget for each component is double what its resale value is...more or less.

                              Comment

                              • purplepeople
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 242

                                #16
                                Instead of buying a center, how about moving the 2.1s into the middle as a pair of monos and buying a new pair of mains. You may have to change your concept of budget.

                                ensen.
                                Those who claim to be making history are often the same ones repeating it...

                                Comment

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