Slave CD player / Master DAC Lessloss Dac 2004

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  • rcchap
    Member
    • Jan 2004
    • 49

    Slave CD player / Master DAC Lessloss Dac 2004

    High End Power Cables | Hifi Cables | Audiophile Cables by LessLoss : Page Not Found - High Performance Power Cables Firewall High Resolution Audiophile Recordings DAC 2004 MkII Digital Cables Blackbody Anchorwave Loudspeaker Cable High Performance Interconnects and Speaker Cables Laminar Streamer SD Player Recording Studio Installations C-MARC C-MARC Power Cable Power distributor


    This makes sense to me. Does it to you?
    If you have time can you check out Lessloss' DAC 2004 link above and their recommendations on disconecting the cd player's clock and setting the DAC as the master clock. The CD players clock oscillator has to one of three frequencies though. They will customize the DAC to that frequency to run in master mode. What do you think?

    Also has anyone seen one of these or now how much they cost US$.

    Chris
  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    DAC 2004 :: Pricing Policy
    The price of the hand-made LessLoss DAC 2004 is 1595 € (Euros).
    I suggest taking a long look at the Benchmark DAC 1. Compare it's jitter measurements against the LossLess.

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • rcchap
      Member
      • Jan 2004
      • 49

      #3
      Yes I've heard good things about the benchmark dac1. The part that was intriguing to me was running the dac's clock as the master and cd/dvd as slave. It seems to make alot of sense, or is it just me. Can you run the dac1 as master clock?

      Comment

      • ThomasW
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 10934

        #4
        Their website is a bit over the top for my tastes.

        I have no idea if going in and modding a player to a 'slave' condition will result in better sound. It sounds like marketing hype to me.

        The Benchmark reclocks, and it's jitter numbers (with reclocking) are lower than the LossLess. So it doesn't matter what you do with the player, slave or not, the Benchmark still has better numbers.

        Regarding their "recharging" battery power, having a rechaging circuit in the unit defeats the purpose of having battery power in the first place. And unless heroic measures are taken, battery power is not inherently superior to a properly designed and built standard power supply.

        $1,924.24 + shipping is a little pricey compared to the DAC 1 at $975 shipping included

        IB subwoofer FAQ page


        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

        Comment

        • Liudas
          Junior Member
          • Aug 2004
          • 3

          #5
          ThomasW wrote:

          "The Benchmark reclocks, and it's jitter numbers (with reclocking) are lower than the LossLess."

          Both websites show a different Jitter test measuring method and the results are not comparable, they even use different measuring units.

          The Benchmark shows Jitter expressed in decibels. The LessLoss site, on the other hand, shows less than 60 ps peak-to-peak Jitter.

          The LessLoss site claims SNR+N at better than -120 dB and the Benchmark site claims SNR+N at -106 dB.

          "UltraLock" is a marketing name for Asynchronous Resampling. LessLoss suggests going all the way to Slaving the actual playing device.

          The LessLoss site states that the charger is galvanically disconnected (via multiple relays) from the mains while the device is in use. Therefore, it is wrong to say that

          "having a rechaging circuit in the unit defeats the purpose of having battery power in the first place."

          Unless both parties would be using the same Audio Precision test equipement and would be using the same test method, it isn't possible, judging only by their websites, to directly compare the Jitter amount.

          The LessLoss site shows many of the parts they use by their part number. One can directly look up the parts as to their quality and price.

          Comment

          • David Meek
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 8938

            #6
            Hi Liudas, welcome to The Guide. :welcome:

            What's your background with the LessLoss DAC?
            .

            David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15260

              #7
              The concept of using the DAC as the master clock source for the transport is sound; this is what Ayre does with the CX-7, for example, in which the converter clock is also fed into the CD-ROM transport.

              Note that all "standard" CDP's use a single master clock, also. How well this all works in practice comes down to both the clock quality and clock distribution; unfortunatlye, consumer CD players rarely use impedance controlled microstrip layout practices, for example, and in a "retrofit" this is even less practical to do.

              I believe that the measurements for jitter which Thomas is referring to are not from the BenchMark Media site, but from the Stereophile review and measurements by John Atkinson of the DAC1. Different measurement techniques are hard to compare directly. And additionally, there should be evaluation of signal correlated jitter as well as non-signal correlated jitter, which Atkinson's measurement does do.

              The DAC1 does seem to, in "boxing phraseology", punch well over it's weight class. In the new August issue they review another "pro" world DAC, the Lavry Engineering DA2002, which takes a rather different hardware approach using a Motorla DSP for some of the sampling/filtering tasks, and a proprietary network of thin film resistors to implement a semi-discrete D/A, but has very good measured performance; almost as good as the Benchmark DAC1, excepting low level noise and linearity, and comparable jitter performance even when fed with the RME toslink SPDIF, as was the Benchmark DAC1. OTOH, the Lavry MSRP's for $8500, instead of $975.

              ~Jon
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              Comment

              • ThomasW
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 10934

                #8
                I believe that the measurements for jitter which Thomas is referring to are not from the BenchMark Media site, but from the Stereophile review and measurements by John Atkinson of the DAC1
                Yes he was............

                And Liudas, he's curious to what prompted you're appearance in this thread?

                Do you really live in Lithuania? :wink:

                IB subwoofer FAQ page


                "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                Comment

                • Liudas
                  Junior Member
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 3

                  #9
                  Yes, I live in Lithuania. I bought a DAC 2004 to use with my Audiostatic full-range electrostatic loudspeakers (made by Ben Peters in Holland). In fact, it was I who insisted that the DAC be made to run on batteries. I needed a very high definition device to try out some audio cable testing methods that I was tinkering around with (with some other audiophile friends who own a sound recording studio) and it was shown to me that the balanced battery solution resulted in the least intermodulation distortion. Then after a while, Vilmantas, a friend of mine who lives across town, decided that the idea could eventually become a very nice audiophile DAC (in other words, a real 'product', as opposed to the customized devices made for each person, which was the case earlier). And so after a while, the idea of LessLoss was born. I am in so far affiliated with LessLoss in that my English is pretty good (I was born in Texas) and my audiophile friends often need help with translation.

                  The reason I stepped in to this discussion was to reply to what I believe was inaccuracies in a couple of statements made about the LessLoss DAC 2004. From what I know, the LessLoss has yet to be measured using the Audio Precision test equipment, as this equipment does not even exist in Lithuania. Until that time, it is difficult to make black-on-white comparisons based on Jitter numbers alone. Jitter can be approximated using the test method they use on their site (Julian Dunn's method), but to make exact measurements to picosecond exactitude they need to send off the device to an independant reviewer who has access to all the necessary test gear locally. I am personally really interested in what the results will show when that time comes.

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10934

                    #10
                    Hi,

                    Thanks for the reply, and a big hello! from another ESL user .... :wink:

                    My trepidation was founded primarily from my cursery read of their website. The frequent use of BOLD CAPITAL TEXT and or red underlined text along with the rather aggressive nature of the product presentation, made it a bit of a turn off for me. So rather than invite me to further explore the product, it had the opposite effect.

                    Yes hopefully your friends will be able to get one of the better magazines to test and review and the unit.

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • Liudas
                      Junior Member
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 3

                      #11
                      Yeah, looks can be deceiving... I'm told that the website is going to be revamped and also that they are finally going to get some professional photos done of the device.

                      Comment

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