helping the Old Man

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  • rotel&energy
    Senior Member
    • May 2004
    • 104

    helping the Old Man

    I bought all my gear about a year ago and my Dad has had a chance to listen to it 3x now. Now he's talking about getting back into the hifi game (after being out for 25+ years). He has a huge record collection (growing CD collection) and he really used to be into music and hifi, but he got away from it for awhile.

    Anyway, he's thinking about starting to look. All he talks about is McIntosh. He remembers the name from when he was young and he really wants to head that route (w/o listening to any gear yet). A few questions for you guys:

    I know McIntosh has a great history, but what are your thoughts on the company now? Still great? (Clearly I don't know)

    He's strictly looking for a two-channel setup. He'd probably have a heck of a lot more cash than I did (my stuff is Rotel), so what other brands I should mention to him? I've name dropped Classe, but that's it. I'd say his music tastes are mostly jazz, r&b and oldies rock. Any thoughts w/ that little bit of info?
    Christopher
  • gd
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2003
    • 583

    #2
    Too many choices...

    Drop us a budget.

    Then start with speakers and work your way back.
    .
    greg (gd to you)
    .
    Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring
    production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid.

    Frank Zappa

    Comment

    • ThomasW
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 10934

      #3
      McIntosh still makes good sounding gear at high-end prices. Don't let the classic cosmetics fool you, the stuff inside is state-of-the art.

      When it gets reviewed it continues to get good reviews. It has a cult-like following and that keeps the resale values high.

      If he has the bucks and wants McIntosh, it's certainly a reasonable purchase.

      Besides us old geezers need connections to our past to keep the Alzheimers at bay .....

      IB subwoofer FAQ page


      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

      Comment

      • David Meek
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 8938

        #4
        There's a review of Mac's 501 (I think) monoblock amp in this month's Stereophile. I haven't read the whole article, but the summation is EXTREMELY favorable. Plus, it mentions that MacIntosh has the lowest depreciation of any audio electronics. Yeah, I'd happily push your dad into a Mac system if he has the means. :T
        .

        David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

        Comment

        • rotel&energy
          Senior Member
          • May 2004
          • 104

          #5
          he pulled the trigger!!

          Just following up on this thread from awhile back. I thought you all might be interested in how the father and son hi/fi adventure turned out:

          My Dad was big into music when he was younger, but got away from hi/fi gear and music as my brother and I grew up. He started talking the talk after I bought my gear, but I provided the impetus to get him walking the walk.

          This past weekend we visited two stores and checked out a ton of gear. My Dad was looking for 2-channel only, which was neat b/c I shopped for HT when I bought my system. The salesman set us down in the two channel room and fired up a Mark Levinson cd player and pre/pro. He had new Revel Performa F50a towers being powered by their own monoblock tube amps (I can't remember the manufacturer). It was very, very sweet but out of my Dad's price range. The guy led him into Bryston stuff and also some Rotel gear (my Dad kept waffling on his budget). My Dad & I really liked the Energy Veritas speakers we listened to. After getting some qoutes, we drove to another store that carried McIntosh. My Dad really wanted McIntosh b/c it was what he grew up on and had always wanted his own McIntosh gear. After lots of listening, he ended up pulling the trigger on the following:

          McIntosh MA6900 (integrated amp)
          Rotel RCD 1072
          Paradigm Signature S4s

          He's pretty happy and I'm happy that he's happy (kind of jealous too). I'm going to help him set it all up this weekend and hopefully I'll get to try out some of my music on the new system once he has it broken in.

          Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to the forum. The insight I've gathered here really let me help my Dad pinpoint what he wanted.

          chris
          Christopher

          Comment

          • aud19
            Twin Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2003
            • 16706

            #6
            Nice kit as they say across the pond :T I wonder how long until Bam spots this post :B You and your Daqd have fun and enjoy.

            Jason
            Jason

            Comment

            • Bam!
              Super Senior Member
              • Jan 2004
              • 2458

              #7
              Hmmmm just saw this one....must've slipped my vision!

              So now your dad is a man!

              When will you become a 2 channel man!

              Tell me what mage him decide on Paradigm and Rotel cd player.....They have very different characteristics as far as sound goes compared to Macintosh ?

              If you dunno.....I'll just shut up.... :lol:


              Nice!

              Oh and Jason! : :lol:
              Got a nice rack to show me ?

              Comment

              • Burke Strickland
                Moderator
                • Sep 2001
                • 3161

                #8
                Originally posted by Bam!
                If you dunno.....I'll just shut up....
                It's better to not make promises you can't keep... :>)


                Chris -- Your dad should be very pleased with that outfit. All very fine choices.

                The McIntosh is "bullet proof" (although at 74.5 lbs. (34kg) net weight, you and your dad might want to use a forklift to move it) :>) and it will work well with all kinds of ancillary gear. The MA 6900 is equally at home with 2 ohm speaker loads as with 8 ohm loads, which speaks well for its stability under difficult loads. With the Paradigms Signature S4's fairly consistent 8 ohm load, it will be "coasting". :>)

                From all reports, the Paradigm Signature S4s put out a clear, clean and cohesive sound field, which make them very well suited to jazz music listening. Those qualities are great for oldies rock and R&B, too, but perhaps not as essential. :>) The Rotel RCD 1072 is a high performance bargain (although I am sure there are others around here who can sing its praises even more vividly.) :>)

                Now that he is getting this great equipment, your dad should enjoy his music again for many years to come. One prediction, though -- if he really gets "into" it, he'll probably keep the McIntosh for years, maybe decades, while he "upgrades" his CD player and speakers multiple times. (Besides the listening -- and movie watching -- that's a major part of the "fun" of this hobby.) ;>)

                Burke

                PS –since your dad has a stack of LPs still sitting around and the McIntosh has an input for a built-in phono preamp with decent specs, adding a good quality turntable and cartridge would be all it would take to start spinning those platters again. If he still has a turntable and cartridge in good condition, cool. If not, some of us around here would be more than willing to make a few suggestions. :>)

                What you DON'T say may be held against you...

                Comment

                • Bam!
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 2458

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Burke Strickland
                  It's better to not make promises you can't keep... :>)


                  >)
                  :W : :lol:
                  Got a nice rack to show me ?

                  Comment

                  • Bill Blank
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 126

                    #10
                    I'll go first, a Music Hall MMF-5 or Rega P3...

                    I often wonder, most recently this morning, what kind of system I'd have if I'd invested the same $$ into a 2-ch rig compared to my music/HT rig??? I think it'd be something like this:

                    Preamp: $2000
                    PowerAmp: $2000
                    CD: $1500
                    Turntable: $500
                    Speakers: $6000


                    Bill

                    Comment

                    • rotel&energy
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2004
                      • 104

                      #11
                      Thanks for the response guys!

                      Not sure what to say about the Paradigm, Rotel and McIntosh match. It sounded good to his ears, which is the most important thing. My guess is he'll consider upgrading down the road. The best part about that is I'll be there for the hand me downs! :T

                      What really shocked me about the weekend was how good the Veritas bookshelfs sounded. It made me wish I had money (engagement ring just sank my savings account).

                      As for the record collection - he has an old Thorens player. Now, I don't know anything about record players (never owned an LP actually), but I believe his Thorens was decent back in the day. I think he was going to replace the cartridge or something, but again, I'm clueless. Any takes on this ol' Thorens player?

                      chris
                      Christopher

                      Comment

                      • aud19
                        Twin Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 16706

                        #12
                        Aaaah if the budget had allowed for me to build around some V2.4i's!! :P :drool:



                        Not that my C-9's are slouch's but those 2.4i's sure are nice :P



                        Jason
                        Jason

                        Comment

                        • Azeke
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 2123

                          #13
                          Chris,

                          That warms my heart that you were able to help your dad. I'm sure he is very excited about his new gear, it seems awesome. Maybe, when my son grows up he help me purchase some new gear.

                          That's beautiful man,

                          Azeke

                          Comment

                          • rotel&energy
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2004
                            • 104

                            #14
                            Jason, I have a pair of C-9s too. I love them, but I wouldn't mind "cheating" on them w/ a set of 2.4s.

                            Another note on the pairings - I agree they seem a bit weird, especially if you consider the price differences. However, he got a good deal on the McIntosh b/c it was a demo and he couldn't pass it up.

                            Azeke - I'm glad the story spread some joy in the forum! Pops is really a car guy. I just got him to put that on pause long enough to get him back into hi/fi.
                            Christopher

                            Comment

                            • gd
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 583

                              #15
                              Originally posted by rotel&energy
                              I believe his Thorens was decent back in the day. I think he was going to replace the cartridge or something, but again, I'm clueless. Any takes on this ol' Thorens player?
                              By all means make an effort to play those records on this nice new system. Thorens was (is?) a formidable player in its day, and his may indeed be worth cleaning up or refurbishing. The MA6900 has a built-in phono preamp -- if you're using a moving magnet (MM) cartridge. If you use a moving coil (MC) cartridge, you'll need an outboard phono pre. Here are a bunch at prices ranging from reasonable to crazy: http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/c.A...ategory.401/.f

                              Either way, watch the old man's face light up when he rediscovers an old favorite!
                              .
                              greg (gd to you)
                              .
                              Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring
                              production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid.

                              Frank Zappa

                              Comment

                              • Azeke
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 2123

                                #16
                                Aaaah if the budget had allowed for me to build around some V2.4i's!! :P :drool:



                                Jason, those sure are purtty .

                                Azeke

                                Comment

                                • Bill Blank
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Sep 2002
                                  • 126

                                  #17
                                  If he likes Thorens they've just gotten back into the high-end turntable game (at least in the States) recently:





                                  Bill

                                  Comment

                                  • David Meek
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 8938

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by rotel&energy
                                    As for the record collection - he has an old Thorens player. Now, I don't know anything about record players (never owned an LP actually), but I believe his Thorens was decent back in the day. I think he was going to replace the cartridge or something, but again, I'm clueless. Any takes on this ol' Thorens player?
                                    Chris, as Bill said Thorens is getting back into TTs in the US. If you can find out what model your dad has, we can offer better advice on what to do to restore it to its former glory. If he decides to go with a new/different TT, there are several of us here that are "into" vinyl and can go on for days about our tables, cartridges, phono stages, etc.

                                    Sounds like a great new thread. We don't talk enough vinyl around here. :scratchhead:

                                    Like everyone else, I think it's really great that you are so involved with your dad and his hobbies/passions. Too cool! :T
                                    .

                                    David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                    Comment

                                    • Bam!
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Jan 2004
                                      • 2458

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by David Meek

                                      Sounds like a great new thread. We don't talk enough vinyl around here. :scratchhead:

                                      Like everyone else, I think it's really great that you are so involved with your dad and his hobbies/passions. Too cool! :T

                                      Yeah.Yeah! Mo' vinyl!

                                      And yeah....while my dad is into HT and has pretty much my old setup....the poor guy is tone deaf....my mother thinks she knows good sound but hasn' t a clue.....it could be playing in Pro Logic......and she wouldn' t even pick up on it....neither would my dad for that matter!

                                      Ah well!
                                      Got a nice rack to show me ?

                                      Comment

                                      • rotel&energy
                                        Senior Member
                                        • May 2004
                                        • 104

                                        #20
                                        Guys,

                                        I really appreciate all the feedback! It's been a lot of fun seeing Dad get back into the swing of things. I got a kick out of watching him sit in the 2-channel room at the store and squint while trying to focus on the music.
                                        He looked so intense!

                                        I asked Dad to get the Model # for me. Would it help if I said that in his old system the Thorens was hooked up directly to his Harman Kardon receiver? Would that mean it was an MM cartridge?
                                        Christopher

                                        Comment

                                        • aud19
                                          Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Aug 2003
                                          • 16706

                                          #21
                                          Hey this may be the dumbest turntable question ever but is there any models that incorporate a phono preamp right in the unit for use with equipment like my Rotel 1066 with no dedicated phono input? I'm a total newb :loser: in the TT department... so be gentle ops:

                                          Also any good suggestions for affordable TT's for my 10 or so albums ( ops: :B ) (affordable = under $500 Canadian) as I'd like decent quality but don't need any of the crazy $10,000 audiophile ones I've seen. No money for one now anyways but seen as how we're talking about it, just thought I'd ask for future reference...

                                          Jason
                                          Jason

                                          Comment

                                          • David Meek
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 8938

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by rotel&energy
                                            I asked Dad to get the Model # for me. Would it help if I said that in his old system the Thorens was hooked up directly to his Harman Kardon receiver? Would that mean it was an MM cartridge?
                                            Yep it's a MM - unless that HK receiver was a VERY unusual one.
                                            .

                                            David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                            Comment

                                            • Burke Strickland
                                              Moderator
                                              • Sep 2001
                                              • 3161

                                              #23
                                              Jason -

                                              Here are two turntable “packages” that include a moving magnet (MM) cartridge and a built in phono preamp:

                                              Pioneer PL 990 Consumer Guide product information MSRP $165 USD (about $215.50 CAD).


                                              Denon DP-29F Amazon product information prevailing price $149.99 USD (about $195.9 CAD).


                                              In terms of “audiophile” equipment, a stand-alone phono preamp and even a cartridge, to say nothing of the turntable itself, can each easily cost far more than either of these units’ total price, so for the “casual” vinyl listener, it seems like this type of package deal would be a very attractive way to enter the game.

                                              chris -

                                              Like David said, your dad's cartridge was almost 100% sure to be a MM model. First off, MC cartridges weren't nearly as popular as MMs in the hey-day of vinyl, and if he plugged his turntable directly into the HK receiver and got listenable music instead of faint noise, it was almost certainly a MM cartridge. (Very few "built-in" phono preamps handled MC signal levels, which are typically a lot lower than MM.)

                                              The old Thorens turntables were built like tanks and were the envy of the industry. One of their "classics" in good condition should still provide excellent service, especially with an updated cartridge like the mid-range Grados. More recently, (five to ten years ago), Thorens reportedly had a lot of quality control issues and authorized dealers had a tough time getting parts for customers with failed equipment. According to a Thorens dealer who steered me toward Rega (a line he did not carry) because of those problems, Thorens had basically abandoned the North American market. I hope their re-entry is coupled with a renewed dedication to quality control and customer service.

                                              Burke

                                              What you DON'T say may be held against you...

                                              Comment

                                              • aud19
                                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Aug 2003
                                                • 16706

                                                #24
                                                Thanks Burke :T That's just the advice I was looking for :smootch:

                                                Jason
                                                Jason

                                                Comment

                                                • Phil Rose
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 142

                                                  #25
                                                  A Thorens TT from about 25 years ago is a treasure. Don't be too hasty to get rid of it since it's absolutely worth upgrading with a new cart, etc.

                                                  Some of the newer stilus geometries are very good at getting to "fresh" vinyl on the old disks. A few years ago I installed a Shure V15VxMR and it really made the clicks and pops much less noticable. So look for something with a similar diamond geometry.

                                                  I had a Thorens TD126 mkII and the arm was well suited for a high compliance cartridge so, make sure that the cart you select is suitable for the arm on the TT. Best to check the specs on the TT or ask here. If you don't find what you need try www.audioasylum.com on the vinyl forum. They have a huge Thorens following and can really help.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • rotel&energy
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • May 2004
                                                    • 104

                                                    #26
                                                    Thorens Model #

                                                    I finally got the model # from my Dad. It is a Thorens TD316. He thinks he bought it about 20 years ago, which seems about right considering it was made between 1985-1988 (I think).
                                                    Christopher

                                                    Comment

                                                    • David Meek
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 8938

                                                      #27
                                                      Wow, a 316?!?!

                                                      That's a NICE turntable. Here's a pic and a link to the web-page it came from.



                                                      Find the full page HERE.

                                                      Now, if your dad doesn't want his old 316, I'll be happy to relieve him of the burden. Just let me know. :B
                                                      .

                                                      David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                                      Comment

                                                      • rotel&energy
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • May 2004
                                                        • 104

                                                        #28
                                                        I think that one has been modified just a bit! It's been a long, long time since I looked Dad's turntable over, but I don't remember his being made of wood, but the platter and other items look very similar. I believe the tone arm is different, not to mention the blue LED! Still, I think Dad has a keeper, especially if he refreshes it a bit.
                                                        Christopher

                                                        Comment

                                                        • rotel&energy
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • May 2004
                                                          • 104

                                                          #29
                                                          umm, it sounds REAL good.

                                                          Well, pops called me over to help him hook up his new gear. I stopped up and found that he had dropped some coin on Wire World interconnects and power cords! After oogling everything, he told me the McIntosh was in the basement and he wanted ME to bring it upstairs. Now, guys I'm in shape, but this thing is an absolute beast. As I grunt and sweat my way up the steps, Dad is behind me doing ground control and reminding me not to "nick any walls".

                                                          He is still waiting on speaker cable, so we used some cheap stuff we had laying around. The Rotel and McIntosh were floor models so they were broken in just a bit, while the Paradigm speakers are new.

                                                          Though the gear needs some time to break in, I can honestly say that it sounded awesome. The little S4s really sounded great. I played a few of my discs and was amazed at how deep and precise the bass was for a bookshelf speaker. Compared to my setup, his gear sounds more vibrant, less muddy and played w/ a lot more detail. He's happy and I'm happy he's happy.
                                                          Christopher

                                                          Comment

                                                          • aud19
                                                            Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Aug 2003
                                                            • 16706

                                                            #30
                                                            Well I should hope it sounds better it's a hell of a lot more $$$$$$$$$$$$!! :B

                                                            Jason
                                                            Jason

                                                            Comment

                                                            • rotel&energy
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • May 2004
                                                              • 104

                                                              #31
                                                              Ha! Yeah it is a lot more cash. I guess there are some benefits to getting older...like more disposable income. I'll definitely have the paradigm signature series on my list when I decide to upgrade speakers.
                                                              Christopher

                                                              Comment

                                                              • bigburner
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • May 2005
                                                                • 2649

                                                                #32
                                                                Hi rotel&energy,

                                                                Just out of interest, how old is your dad and how old are you?

                                                                I'm just wondering if my 16 year old son is posting questions like that on whatever forums he belongs to!! I'm 53, by the way.

                                                                Nigel.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Chris D
                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Dec 2000
                                                                  • 16877

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Well, however old he was, he's 3 years older now!
                                                                  CHRIS

                                                                  Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                                  - Pleasantville

                                                                  Comment

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