Anyone own a Monster AVS2000

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  • ht_addict
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2002
    • 508

    Anyone own a Monster AVS2000

    Just looking for some feedback on performance of the Monster AVS 2000 from those who own one. Currently my Monster 5000mkII indicates power levels of 108-115v coming out of my socket. Only late at night does it come close to 120v. All my equipment(RPTV, DVD, receiver) require a 120v source. My 1095 only requires 115v. With the money I have invested in my setup I want to make sure its being supplied by the proper voltage to maximize performance and minimize the effects of underpowering. So if you have a similar situation and utilize the Monster I'd appreciate some feedback. My house is an older house but has updated 100amp breaker box. When the voltage drops like it does its not because I'm running the dishwasher, washer/dryer/lights/tv's all at the same time.

    ht_addict
  • brucek
    HTG Expert
    • Aug 2000
    • 303

    #2
    ht_addict,

    I don't want to discourage you, but I question the need for this very expensive device, given your situation as you describe it. Others may disagree of course.

    While I recognize the validity of some power products on the market today, many return a very subtle improvement, depending on the nature of the problem. The notion many people have that there is something inherently flawed with the power that enters their home today isn't really deserving. The variations you have in your voltage are quite common and not a cause for concern.

    The power supplies in your equipment are designed to operate quite efficiently over a wide range of input AC voltages and also provide high noise rejection. The fact that one piece of equipment specifies 115 volts and another 120 volts is not significant to you. This is only a specification to indicate that the equipment requires standard North American residential single phase AC power.

    Basically these Voltage Stabilizers or 'power plant' devices are AC to DC to AC converters. They take the AC from the wall and convert it to DC, in the same manner as the power supplies in all your audio equipment that you own. This DC is fed to a very high quality AC inverter to create a new AC signal to feed your equipment. What have you gained here? You already have a device in every piece of equipment you own to nicely convert AC to DC. That DC in your equipment power supply will be quite stable over a wide range of AC inputs and will be quite clean of noise and harmonic distortion. That is the nature of every power supply.

    Why do it again and then reconvert the DC back to AC and then feed it to your equipment's power supply to recreate DC again. Is the AC coming from the 'power plant' going to contain less noise and harmonics than from the wall? Maybe not - and as I said before, the noise rejection of a standard power supply in a piece of audio equipment is very high. And again, you'd be adding another device into the chain. How many times do you want to go back and forth from AC to DC?

    Remember that power plants or line conditioners will usually supply lower power handling capabilities from each receptacle than the wall socket. A standard 15 amp wall plug can supply about 1800 watts and a 20 amp about 2400. Why would you want to limit the power to your equipment to the output limiting factor of the power plant or conditioner, particularly when most residential power is not flawed to begin with? I'm sure you'll read lots of anecdotal evidence of how someone's soundstage improved or any number of other claims regarding these devices. Believe them if you wish, but I would suggest to not spend a lot of money on these devices.

    brucek

    Comment

    • stantheman2
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2004
      • 124

      #3
      I would agree with the previous post that the absolute voltage level is not critical. Any reasonable power supply should be able to output its rated DC voltage over a range of AC input voltages.

      However, in my limited experience, the AC power delivered to a residence can be far from clean 60 Hz sine wave(s). While a component's power supply will have some filtering effect, a separate outboard component that is specialized at filtering can improve the situation. Typical audio comments with the outboard filter are less noise and more articulate bass, and typical video comments include a clearer picture and "blacker blacks".

      Another potential benefit is surge protection - several suppliers of the outboard filter devices include surge ptotection in their compoennts, and will effectively insure your components against failures caused be line surges (as may be caused by lightning strikes on a transmission or distribution line, for example).

      This is all dependent, of course, on the quality and security of the power entering your house. The best way to determine this (if you or a friend are electrically inclined) is to put a signal analyzer with scope on your incoming line to see how much noise you've got. You could also work it the other way, and ask for a loaner line conditioner from your dealer.

      Comment

      • brucek
        HTG Expert
        • Aug 2000
        • 303

        #4
        While a component's power supply will have some filtering effect, a separate outboard component that is specialized at filtering can improve the situation.
        Fair enough Stan, I really only wish to raise ht-addicts awareness of the neccessity of a device (that I see on their website cost about $1700US dollars), to take care of a non problem. That's a lot of money.

        Certainly any inexpensive 'conditioner' can supply the standard EMI/RFI noise filtering, some local surge protection and a convenient place to plug all your equipment. As I said, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on these devices.

        Most noise in audio systems comes from ground loops, not from "dirty power". These are fairly easily solved, but it is a time consuming task. Unfortunately, the safety system that is designed to save us from shock creates a lot of problems in the audio and video world. I would look toward one of Thomas's balanced power units to solve this type of situation....

        I agree though, it's certainly a good idea if you could borrow an AC line analyser to get a better feel for the condition of the power entering your home if you feel it's suspect. Generally though, power supplies and the equipment itself is very tolerant of small amounts of noise and distortion on the line. From the input transformer of a piece of equipment to the chips themselves, you can easily have 100dB of noise rejection (down a factor of 100,000).

        This is why many equipment manufacturers publish the suggestion in their manuals to not use any conditioners etc. I quote from my Bryston amplifier manual - "Bryston amplifiers contain high quality, dedicated circuitry in their power supplies to reject RF, line spikes and other power-line problems. Bryston power amplifiers do not require any specialized power line conditioners. Simply plug the amplifier directly into its own wall socket".

        Well, Bryston doesn't have the market cornered on this for sure, because just about every decent piece of equipment you own qualifies to make the claim 'contains high quality, dedicated circuitry in their power supplies to reject RF, line spikes and other power-line problems & do not require any specialized power line conditioners'. :roll:

        brucek

        Comment

        • stantheman2
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2004
          • 124

          #5
          Excellent. reasoned reply brucek! I didn't research the cost of the AVS 2000 - at that price point I would say no way. I was thinking more along the lines of a $USD 300 - 500 Monster Power Center. Some might consider something at that lower price point worth a try. Looking at the posts on AV forums, there is an extremely wide range of costs that are viewed by individuals as "reasonable". $5000 phone preamps or speaker cables are two examples that come to mind.

          Comment

          • Blazar
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2004
            • 127

            #6
            I would say skip the monster power nonsense and try one of the power plants from PSAUDIO.com. These had mad reviews from both "stereophile" and from "secrets of hi fi and home theater".
            Blazar!
            (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

            Comment

            • David Meek
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 8938

              #7
              Originally posted by stantheman2
              there is an extremely wide range of costs that are viewed by individuals as "reasonable". $5000 phone preamps or speaker cables are two examples that come to mind.
              I can say that if you have the disposable income, at least some of those $5K and up phono-pres, CAN make a substantial difference in the way your music sounds. The whole point being that the person buying feels the improvement is worth the cost. Different strokes. . . .
              .

              David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

              Comment

              • ht_addict
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2002
                • 508

                #8
                Originally posted by Blazar
                I would say skip the monster power nonsense and try one of the power plants from PSAUDIO.com. These had mad reviews from both "stereophile" and from "secrets of hi fi and home theater".
                I picked up the AVS2000 on Friday and got everything hooked up. Now I haven't had much time to play with it but did watch X2 today. What I noticed right off the bat was the improvement in video. My Panasonic 47" RPTV is 1.5yrs old but has yet to be ISF calibrated, so the further you get from center the more the convergence is off. Being hooked up to the AVS2000 has diminished this problem to barely noticable and trust me I looked. On the audio side, I think I'm hearing more detail and seperation though a little more testing is needed. Was it worth the $$$? Yes! With the money we invest in our equipment why make it work harder than it should. For an extra $50 I picked up a 4yr extended warranty, so I'm set for a while.

                ht_addict

                Comment

                • GSamF
                  Member
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 36

                  #9
                  ht_addict beware!

                  I own the top of the line avs 2000 plus the htps 7000 line conditioner (both signature series). I got them both for a steal but have noticed many high end systems, much higher than mine, include them. I probably wouldn't have bought them without the great price plus I admit I was suckered into the cool look and how they matched nicely with my rotel gear (both silver and black).

                  I have not done an a/b test with each individually, but I can tell you combined it has definitely cleaned up my picture and has made my audio more "cleaner and crisper".

                  I say beware because there are many people here will warn you against these types of gear, but have never heard a system with and without.

                  I am sure there are people who have done an a/b test that say the difference is minimal, but as someone said to me, try to only listen to those opinions who have heard them in use, not their beliefs in theory.

                  For me, I'm a believer. But I got both for around $2000, which is either a steal in my eyes, or I bought one of the most expensive surge protectors on the market in other people's opinion. I enjoy mine, and I hope you do too.

                  Sam

                  Comment

                  • ht_addict
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 508

                    #10
                    Originally posted by GSamF
                    ht_addict beware!

                    I own the top of the line avs 2000 plus the htps 7000 line conditioner (both signature series). I got them both for a steal but have noticed many high end systems, much higher than mine, include them. I probably wouldn't have bought them without the great price plus I admit I was suckered into the cool look and how they matched nicely with my rotel gear (both silver and black).

                    I have not done an a/b test with each individually, but I can tell you combined it has definitely cleaned up my picture and has made my audio more "cleaner and crisper".

                    I say beware because there are many people here will warn you against these types of gear, but have never heard a system with and without.

                    I am sure there are people who have done an a/b test that say the difference is minimal, but as someone said to me, try to only listen to those opinions who have heard them in use, not their beliefs in theory.

                    For me, I'm a believer. But I got both for around $2000, which is either a steal in my eyes, or I bought one of the most expensive surge protectors on the market in other people's opinion. I enjoy mine, and I hope you do too.

                    Sam

                    Everyone has their own opinion and I'm fine with that. To be honest I tried very hard to convince myself not to get it but seeing that I had invested alot into my setup to begin with I just felt my gear deserved the best cleanest power possible. The HTS5000mkII was picked up in a trade for a HTS 1000mkII and $300CDN. The AVS2000 I got for $2000CDN. Was it worth the investment. :T :T . Here's a pic of the new gear in action. Watching Tron today the AVS2000 had to add almost 10v.



                    ht_addict

                    Comment

                    • brucek
                      HTG Expert
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 303

                      #11
                      ht_addict,

                      Great looking setup. You got a good price on the AVS2000. :T

                      Have you had any debates with yourself about the placement of your left speaker. It's so darn close to that left wall.

                      I suppose it's a trade off between that and the loss of separation if you put it right next to the display. Have you ever tried it located there?

                      Comment

                      • ht_addict
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2002
                        • 508

                        #12
                        Originally posted by brucek
                        ht_addict,

                        Great looking setup. You got a good price on the AVS2000. :T

                        Have you had any debates with yourself about the placement of your left speaker. It's so darn close to that left wall.

                        I suppose it's a trade off between that and the loss of separation if you put it right next to the display. Have you ever tried it located there?
                        Thanks for the compliment. Unfortunately for now my speaker has to remain where its at. My setup is in a 10 by 10 section of my basement which is 25 feet in length. Seperating the two halfs is a fireplace concrete base that prevents me from rotating everything length wise. Some day when I stop spending money on my gear I'll renovate the basement. You can't tell by the photo but the speaker is angled in towards the listening area.

                        ht_addict

                        Comment

                        • Blazar
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2004
                          • 127

                          #13
                          you bought this thing without really listening to what I said...

                          the psaudio powerplant is bar none the best effect you are likely to see from "power conditioning" on the current market today. nearly EVERY review on this product has been stellar. the disadvantages are power consumption and heat generation...

                          For $2000 you are talking about an EXPENSIVE piece of gear. Ps audio has a very generous no questions return policy... if you get a chance to compare this device let us know how it goes.

                          monster power stuff has a completely unacceptable cost:effect ratio IMO.
                          Blazar!
                          (HTPC/Panasonic SA-XR55/B&W 802D/HTM-1/SCMS)

                          Comment

                          • ht_addict
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 508

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Blazar
                            you bought this thing without really listening to what I said...

                            the psaudio powerplant is bar none the best effect you are likely to see from "power conditioning" on the current market today. nearly EVERY review on this product has been stellar. the disadvantages are power consumption and heat generation...

                            For $2000 you are talking about an EXPENSIVE piece of gear. Ps audio has a very generous no questions return policy... if you get a chance to compare this device let us know how it goes.

                            monster power stuff has a completely unacceptable cost:effect ratio IMO.
                            I did listen to you but unfortunately I don't have the funds on hand to purchase these type of units out right. My Local dealer gets me no interest/payments for 14mths when I buy through them. At $2000CDN/$1500US I think I got a good deal on the AVS2000. The Power Plant P1000 from PSaudio only allows upto 1000w on the AC regenerated zone and 15amp on the remaining zone that is filtered using UO technology. The AVS2000 delivers upto 1800w and coupled with my Monster HTS5000mkII all channels are filtered and seperated. Not to mention the P1000 retails for $3000US

                            ht_addict

                            Comment

                            • ToddN
                              Junior Member
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 3

                              #15
                              Voltage Fluctuating

                              ht_addict:

                              I just completed my power setup by adding the AVS2000. I also have the HTPS7000 conditioner.

                              On your AVS2000, does your output fluctuate, or is it rock-solid at 120.0? Mine fluctuates continually between 119 and 121, once per second. For example, it may jump 119.5 - 120.0 - 120.5 - 120.3 - 119.7 - 119.3 - 120.3 - 120.0, etc., etc.

                              Then, even though the output hovers around 120, the HTPS7000, which is connected to the #1 unswitched outlet (and is the only thing connected to the AVS2000) shows an input level that fluctuates between 118 and 119. It never reaches 120, like I was expecting.

                              What do you think, do I have a defective unit?

                              Anyone else have a comment?

                              Thanks for your help!

                              Comment

                              • ht_addict
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2002
                                • 508

                                #16
                                Originally posted by ToddN
                                ht_addict:

                                I just completed my power setup by adding the AVS2000. I also have the HTPS7000 conditioner.

                                On your AVS2000, does your output fluctuate, or is it rock-solid at 120.0? Mine fluctuates continually between 119 and 121, once per second. For example, it may jump 119.5 - 120.0 - 120.5 - 120.3 - 119.7 - 119.3 - 120.3 - 120.0, etc., etc.

                                Then, even though the output hovers around 120, the HTPS7000, which is connected to the #1 unswitched outlet (and is the only thing connected to the AVS2000) shows an input level that fluctuates between 118 and 119. It never reaches 120, like I was expecting.

                                What do you think, do I have a defective unit?

                                Anyone else have a comment?

                                Thanks for your help!
                                The fluctuations are normal since the unit is constantly adding/subtracting voltage to maintain the 120. I've fired an email of to Monster since my HTS5000mkII doesn't read 120v even though the AVS2000 does. I noticed at my local dealer that their 5000mkII does read 120v. When I hear back I'll let you know.

                                ht_addict

                                Comment

                                • ToddN
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Jul 2004
                                  • 3

                                  #17
                                  ht_addict:

                                  Awesome, thanks. I'm anxious to hear what they say.

                                  Comment

                                  • ht_addict
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Dec 2002
                                    • 508

                                    #18
                                    Here's the reply I got.

                                    A Note From Monster Power:

                                    Kit Driscoll, Power Products Specialist April 28, 2004

                                    "Why don't the ‘Input/Output Voltage’ meters exactly match when a Monster PowerCenter is plugged into a Monster AVS2000?"

                                    To begin with, measuring AC voltage is complex (it constantly fluctuates), and there are a few different reasons why the meters may not exactly match (even though the voltage running through both in most cases actually is the same) when a Monster PowerCenter is plugged into a Monster AVS. This should help to clarify some of those reasons. If the voltage difference is less than 2.4V between the PowerCenter and AVS: Monster Power products with digital meters allow for a 1% tolerance, meaning that Monster Power ensures voltage accuracy within +/- 1.2V (120V x 1% = 1.2V). In other words, Monster Power products that operate within a range of 1.2V below or above 120V, or from 118.8V to 121.2V, are considered operating within normal specifications.

                                    If the voltage difference is more than 2.4V between the PowerCenter and AVS:

                                    In cases where the difference appears to be more that 2.4V between the PowerCenter and AVS, the answer is a little more technical, and may have to do with a number of things. First, distortion on the AC power line can dramatically affect the sensitive electronics used to measure AC voltage. In normal situations, distortion can range from 3% to 5%, and depending upon the geographic location it can be higher than 15%. Higher distortion levels on an AC power line can lead to wider variations between the PowerCenter and AVS meter readings, even though the voltage running through both in most cases actually is the same. Second, Monster Power continuously strives to find ways to improve our products, and we occasionally upgrade our products with better electronic components, including the electronic components used to measure AC voltage. These newer versions of electronic components can also contribute to the differences in meter readings. Finally, in very rare cases it is possible that the calibration on the PowerCenter or AVS might not be correct. Potentiometers, the electronic component that is used for calibration, are extremely sensitive and can be damaged by dramatic temperature changes or by product mishandling, for example from the box being aggressively handled or dropped during transportation. In summary, Monster Power is exploring the possibility of standardizing meter display technologies and meter vendors within both the PowerCenter and AVS product lines. We believe there are many advantages to the standardization of these components, and that this will bring meter readings of Monster PowerCenters and AVSs as closely together as possible. Please contact me with any questions regarding this or any other Monster Cable or Monster Power products. You can reach me at Monster world headquarters in San Francisco at (415) 840-2000 x3532 or on my mobile phone at (415) 716-0493.

                                    Monsterously,
                                    Kit Driscoll

                                    Comment

                                    • ToddN
                                      Junior Member
                                      • Jul 2004
                                      • 3

                                      #19
                                      ht_addict,

                                      Thanks for posting their reply.

                                      It has me a little concerned, because if they're saying that the meter can be off, then it's possible that the AVS200 is adjusting to the wrong voltage. For example, if the meter is off -5.0, then it could be adjusting the voltage to 125.0, even though 120.0 is showing on the display.

                                      Comment

                                      • brucek
                                        HTG Expert
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 303

                                        #20
                                        To begin with, measuring AC voltage is complex
                                        What utter nonsense.......

                                        If they're having trouble over at Monster measuring AC voltage, I'll lend them my $29 meter from Radio Shack.. :roll:

                                        brucek

                                        Comment

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