10 x 10 BR too small for decent HT room?

[GregoriusM]

The question says it all.

I'm looking at moving to a 2 BR apartment, with the second BR being my HT room (possibly).

I'll scan in the layout and give you guys a better idea IF you even think that this size of room is 1) big enough 2) nowhere near the right dimensions to have any decent sound.

I have a 5.1 setup and am very happy with that with dipole surrounds.

Anyway, I'll give you more information if you think it is even possible to fit a 47 to 53" (down the road) RPTV, an approx. 24" wide gear rack, 2 Paradigm Titan mains (bookshelf type speakers on stands), bipole/dipole ADP 170's in the rear, CC170 center channel, and a fold out love-seat for seating and for the odd guest.

I may not have time to scan in the layout until later, but any prelimary thoughts about room acoustics, etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Greg

[Bam!]

Gregor!

Could you make a hole in the wall to put the RPTV in like David Meek did ?

:roll:

[GregoriusM]

Nope. Apartment building managers frown on that. The RPTV won't be for a year or so. For now it will remain my 27" Panny. But, I want to plan around the RPTV.

[Bam!]

Well Greg!

My personal opinion is yes it is small...too small no....just right no...

Square is not ideal for sound waves....however....I once when into a store that had a really small sound room...maybe it was 10 * 12....they made it dead....so dead that I actually had to talk louder than normal so they could hear me!!!!....It was a Wilson set up on Mark Levinson...set up right here in Montreal!

Anyways....anything can be done...with the right acoustic treatments...probably would be great....

What about neighbours and travelling bass boom....will that be a problem ?

[GregoriusM]

Bammer: Thanks for the replies.

I know it's pretty small, but it only needs to seat two in a love seat.

As far as sound to the neighbours, I just posted a question about that in another thread, to kind of keep the size of an HT room as a separate topic from acoustical treatments for apartments.

Greg

[Bent]

Gregor, after buying a 56" panny (and having to buy an entertainment unit to surround it... WAF, you know, for another 1000 dollars), Id never buy a RPTV again, they are just to big, clumsy and big...and clumsy... plus I'm not fond of the off-axis image degradation.

I'd look at the FPTV market, a screen is flat... it doesn't intrude into your room, and at the cost of a RPTV, you can very easilly put an X1 at the rear of your room c/w a higher end screen up front and have an awfull nice image.

There are lots of sweet (affordable) pj's out there, and they are just getting sweeter and sweeter.

anothe pj that you might look at (if bulb prices is scaring you off...) is the Hitachi PJ-TX10 (the Canadian equivalent of the Hitachi Home-1), it's bulbs list for 200 bucks... and 3000 hours bulb life, and a huge zoom range, and dual axis lens shift...

[aud19]

No living room area to utilize in the apartment?

I agree. Once you subtract the depth of a RPTV cabinet plus sitting at least a foot or two from the back wall that's going to be a really small viewing distance. You'll run in to an even more extreme version of the problem Bing's having with his TV and NTSC being almost unwatchable that close to the screen. I'd go with a low priced FP. Right off the bat you'll save a couple feet with no cabinet to deal with and in a small room a couple feet is a lot! You could go with a relatively small screen in that room which will help increase percieved resolution too and minimize things like "screendoor" effect etc.

Jason

[Bam!]

I'd look at the FPTV market, a screen is flat... it doesn't intrude into your room, and at the cost of a RPTV, you can very easilly put an X1 at the rear of your room c/w a higher end screen up front and have an awfull nice image.

There are lots of sweet (affordable) pj's out there, and they are just getting sweeter and sweeter.

anothe pj that you might look at (if bulb prices is scaring you off...) is the Hitachi PJ-TX10 (the Canadian equivalent of the Hitachi Home-1), it's bulbs list for 200 bucks... and 3000 hours bulb life, and a huge zoom range, and dual axis lens shift...

Yeah yeah Xi from Infocus! :T it`s a winner....I have that one bud as you know.....well I hope you know or that was stupid of me to assume it......anyways...I saw it in 720p (right now mine is 480 ops: ) even in 480 it is sweet but in 720p.... :E

Anyway...great space saver and lists for 999.00$ US buckarooneys!

[David Meek]

Grego,

If you are waiting a year or so to purchase, I'd strongly recommend looking at a flat-panel in addition to the PJ. In a room that size (no, it's NOT too small) a 42" LCOS or plasma would be a stone killer!
;x(

Plus, you don't have the issues of PJ placement, screen obstruction, etc. These'll all be magnified by a smaller environment.

Gotta get back to work. More on this, later. . . .
:later:

[GregoriusM]

Hey guys! Some excellent info here!

The RPTV I would be looking at would be something like the Toshiba that Trev and Bing have.

But, if you can get a PJ for $1000 USD, that would be killer.

I don't seeing any flat panels coming down to the price of the Tosh RPTVs or the $1000 PJ in a year though.

But, hey, keep me informed people.

Aud19: Yes, there would be room in my living room for the entertainment system, but it would then compromise the arrangement of the furniture (I know! I know! What has furniture got to do with it? And I don't even have a wife).

But, the HT would have to be along the long wall, and the LR is open-ended, so it turns out to be 11' wide by 16' long, plus another 11' for the dining area.

That 11' x 27' with the HT along the 16' side of the LR area. It just doesn't work for looks, furniture arrangement, and from what I can see - sound.

I'll scan in both rooms for you guys to peruse and you can give me some thoughts on the whole thing.

The BR has a closet where the doors can come off for gear placement.

You'll see on the plans when I get them scanned.

But, I'm glad that you all seem to think that I can get somewhat decent sound and picture in my 10 x 10 room.

Actually, I measured it today and it is 9' 9" x 10' 3" and then add on another foot to the closet doors that take up 3/4 of the side wall.

Confused? Me too.

But, I'm pumped about the PJ! And if the flat panels come down, that would be awesome!

Bent: I hear what you say about viewing angle, etc. on an RPTV, but that's as high as I can go for a TV. But, evidently with this Xi projector, I may be able to get something decent for a favorble price.

My 27" would then go in the LR for watching the news, or sitcoms, etc.

The HT room would be for music listening, HD sat TV, and DVD's.

Thanks everyone!

Greg

Edit: I should mention that it is an 8' high room.

[aud19]

Definately a good idea to scan in the plans :T You never know between all us HT freaks we might just come up with something workable :lol: Let us know the general amount/type of furniture you want in the two rooms as well

Jason

[David Meek]

Just thinking a little more:

In the US, we're used to large rooms/lots of space, whereas in many parts of the world where population density is higher - think Europe, Japan, China, etc. - people think a 10' x 10' room is a VERY nicely sized area and have made some beautiful home theaters out of them. It can be done.

[GregoriusM]

Good thought, David!

I arranged my furniture in my living room in a 10 x 10 space, and I think it is going to work well.

But, I'm still going to post pics of the BR and the LR for your guys take on it.

I've just been so danged busy (excuses, excuses) to scan them in. On the weekend for sure!

[Bam!]

Gregarooney!

But, if you can get a PJ for $1000 USD, that would be killer.

You do know the Infocus X1 is 999.00$ US right......DLP.......

[GregoriusM]

Yes, I do BAM BAM! So is the X2!

But thanks for the info.

I clicked on the link below to have a look at the Carada screens too.

This is all new to me so I'm going to be asking a LOT of questions.

Greg

[Bent]

Gregor, what size image are you after?
I ask because the BenQ 6100 is in the same price league, 'cept it is a much longer throw design (read: smaller image than the X1 for a give throw distance). It also offers a slightly quicker colour wheel, I believe 3X as opposed to the X1's 2X wheel.

The X1 requires a Component-VGA "dongle" to feed it anything higher than 480i, but it puts it's Faroudja de-interlacer to work with it's s-video input, so hi-scan rate component input may mean nothing to you anyways.
The X1 also has a significant image offset, meaning if it's sitting on the floor 8 feet from the screen surface the bottom of the image is also thrown upwards (I'd guess about 10-12 inches, even more so if you have it in 16/9 mode.)

I know very little of the 6100, but I hear that it is very much a contender against the X1, the biggest detracter (or benefit...) is the long throw lems.

[Jariten]

Never too small...or maybe a bit......
*grin*

My Home Theater is currently ...2.60 x 3.5 Meters so about 8' x 11'

That's my Living room !! (w00t) ...yes it's Japan after all...you can't imagine WHAT people can stuff in such small appartments...

My Equipment :

M&K S-150 THX LCR
M&K MPS 2525 surrounds
Yamaha sub (is going to a friend of mine)
HCA-2205A Amp
Halo C-1 controller
Denon DVD 5000 DVD player
Momitsu DV-880 DVD player
JVC VCR (yeah !)
HS-10 Projector and a 80" widescreen format projection screen

(1 leather couch and a cat tree compliment our living room)
3 cats own the place btw

Better than at the movies!
That's what people that visit say...
Even though we have been to 25$ movie theater rooms with about 30 seats ...THX certified and all...it was REALLY disappointing....
we prefer our setup at home....
sounds better ^^;;;;

:B

so 10' x 10' is FINE by me ^_^
just some accoustic treatment here and there
and you'll be set...

[Andrew Pratt]

Greg while its not an ideal room to work with I feel confident we could get the job done quite nicely with a little creative thinking. First and for most ditch the RPTV idea...even if you're on the bottom floor moving those monsters is not fun and they take up way to much room...esp in a smaller room like this one. You can buy the Studio Experince 1HD for about $1600 cdn and the X1 (which is available at American Hi-Fi locally) is slightly cheaper then that. For screens we'll make one for under $100 and if we move the gear into the closet I think we could come up with quite a nice cozy theater for you. I'd definitly think about doing some room treatments but again that doesn't have to be expensive.

When I get back next week you should drop by for a demo of my PJ and screen combo...as it is my chairs are 10 feet back from the screen so you'll get a nice preview of just what sort of image you can have in that room...my room's also only 12 wide so it'll be a pretty good proxy for your new room if we pretend there's a wall right behind my chairs.

[GregoriusM]

It's a deal, Andrew!

[Chris D]

I COMPLETELY agree, that you can build a nice theater in ANY room that you have. Yes, more space is definitely better, and if you can afford a 20 x 30 room with 14 foot ceilings, you'll be able to build a perfect theater. But in real life, we all are constrained by space, budget, etc. That's what I try to talk about in my magazine articles. Make the best of what you have!

[Andrew Pratt]

Greg I'm now back in town so any time you want to drop by just let me know and we'll work something out.

[GregoriusM]

Okey doke, Andrew! But will I recognize you? :lol:

[Andrew Pratt]

Actually from your Avatar it seems you've changed more then I :W