room fit for the dead

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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    room fit for the dead

    I designed my HT room from many of the posts on the AVS site where they apply a 1" Johns Mansfield insulation on the bottom 3 feet of the walls. I also covered the front wall with this same insulaltion and the top half of all the walls are covered in a low pile indoor/outdoor carpet. The end result is that my HT room is very dead sounding which works great for HT but for music its not very lively. I think I'm going to try and add some reflective surfaces back into the room (there's a few posters on the back wall already) to try and make it more open sounding for music....anyone got any thoughts?

    PS click the link below to see pics of the room.




  • efarstad
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Jun 2001
    • 2231

    #2
    Hey buddy, if you want to make the upper portion of your walls more reflective you can go to your local Home Depot and buy some panel board and put that up over your carpet. It can be painted and would definately give the reflection you want.

    It is about 1/8" thick and comes in 4x8 sheets and is tongue and groove installation. Most of the time it's used for wainscoting but would be perfect for your use too. Most sheets I've seen have vertical grooves in them for looks! My father-in-law uses it for making cabinets and it's gorgeous! Here's a picture of what it looks like:



    E





    The Norwegian A/V Nut!
    E-Cinema

    The Norwegian A/V Nut!
    E-Cinema

    Comment

    • Andrew Pratt
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 16507

      #3
      I think I'll try tacking up some boards around the room and see what effect that has on the sound. Since I have carpet up already you won't see the nail holes so I've got a lot of freedom to place boards around the room.




      Comment

      • efarstad
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Jun 2001
        • 2231

        #4
        Sounds like a great plan! Anxious to hear what you "hear!"

        E





        The Norwegian A/V Nut!
        E-Cinema

        The Norwegian A/V Nut!
        E-Cinema

        Comment

        • Bob
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2000
          • 802

          #5
          Andrew,
          Were you able to fix your problem? I have been watching your post languish here and each day I expected someone with more experience to jump in and help you out.
          Since they haven't, I'm no expert and wont claim to be able to maximize your room acoustics (at least not without having you spend a lot of money) but, I am 100% sure I can help you out to make it better without spending much, if your interested.

          Comment

          • Andrew Pratt
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 16507

            #6
            bob I'm interested in anything you have to say. At this point I've been concentrating on getting the DIY speakers finished but I should have those wrapped up shortly.




            Comment

            • Bob
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2000
              • 802

              #7
              Andrew,
              I looked at your pictures. What are the room dimensions and where are the front speakers placed? Also, what is behind the curtains on either side of the TV? Is the room 2x4 studs, insulation and then drywall, then the treatment you put up or is it a cement basement? Also, does your family read much? If so, where do you keep your books, albums, video tapes, cds, lds?

              Comment

              • Andrew Pratt
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 16507

                #8
                I need to take some new pictures since the ones on the web site are now out of date since I've added new subs, new speakers added a CD rack, added movie posters and shortly will be adding a rear speaker.

                Basically though the room is 12 feet wide by 23 feet long. The drop down ceiling is at 6'9" with a few inches above that before you hit the joists. I've added 1 layer of insulation above the ceiling tiles to help keep noise out of the upstairs bedrooms. Sitting at the main listening position the left wall is the outside wall so its concrete covered with 2*3"s with drywall over that. The same goes for the front wall (behind TV) The right wall is 2*3 construction with drywall over the first 1/2 of the room (just past gear rack) afterwhich its only cheap paneling over the 2*3"s. Since I was having issues with this wall ratteling at high bass peaks I added a 2*4 to the back of everyother 2*3 on the other side of the wall to help brace it as well as trying the top header into the I beam to give it more strenght. The drywall area in the front was totally reinforced with sheets of MDF glued to the back so its very solid now. The rear wall is one that I built so its 2*4 construction with a single layer of drywall on the office side and dual layers on the HT room side with the cavities filled with insulation.

                The wall treatments currently installed are the bottom 30" is covered with Johns Mansville Linacostic Permacoate 1" insulation which was applied with 3M spray on glue. The front wall behind the black curtain is totally covered with Linacoustic insualtion. The remaining 4 feet is covered with a low pile grey indoor/outdoor carpet.

                Not shown in the online pictures are the more recent accessories that I've added. On the rear wall beside the light switch I've added a 24" * 36" movie poster which is in a plastic frame and covered with glass. There is another movie poster on the left side wall near the back corner. Also in the corner opposite the door there is now a CD/movie rack thats about 4 feet tall.

                Here's a more recent picture showing the CD rack and movie posters on the back wall



                The front speakers are 5 feet out from the back wall and about 2.5 feet from the side walls. I have them in as far as I can before the TV gets in the way.

                Interestingly enough yesterday I was playing music from the HT room but working in the workshop adjacent to the HT room and I could clearly hear the cymbals reflecting of the office walls....ironic that I spent $$ treating the HT room but I'm getting good reverb from another room altogehter :roll:




                Comment

                • Bob
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2000
                  • 802

                  #9
                  It is easy to see why your room is to dead, I only have a few minutes right now but, will post further tonight.

                  Comment

                  • Bob
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2000
                    • 802

                    #10
                    Andrew,
                    As you already know, the dampening material you put all along your walls is the problem. There may be a solution that isn't as drastic as removing or covering over it. It would have worked if you only had it along your front wall and only partially along your side walls, stopping just past your speakers.
                    That is why I asked you about where you kept your books and cds and dvds. You could line the back wall with book cases to use as difusers. Along the side walls I would start removing some of the carpet and replace it with something reflective like painted plywood or drywall.

                    Comment

                    • Andrew Pratt
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 16507

                      #11
                      So I'd still leave the bottom insulation on right?




                      Comment

                      • TEK
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 1670

                        #12
                        Hei...

                        The main point about room acustics is to avaoid earley reflections, but not to have a completely "dead" room. This makes it ideal to have the area around the loadspeakers as dead as possible, while the other part of the room should reflect sound.

                        This will allow your loadspeakers to create sound without beeing intefered with early reflection from the speaker side walls.

                        So I do also think that the solution is to try removing/changing some of the damping in the rear half of the room.
                        -TEK


                        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                        Comment

                        • Bob
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2000
                          • 802

                          #13
                          Andrew,
                          I am not familiar with the material you used on the bottom third of your walls but, if it is non reflective you will probably have to cover it. If it is acting as an insulation don't remove it, cover it.
                          Personally, my experience has been that keeping the front wall and the side walls up to about a foot or two in front of the speakers fairly dead works best. I know that most people say to eliminate the first reflection but, I played around with this a lot in my room and found difusing the first reflection sounded much better. Same with the back wall. Plantation shutters and bookcases work great as difusers. I would err on the side of the room being a little bright rather than to dead, but, that's just me.

                          Comment

                          • Lex
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Apr 2001
                            • 27461

                            #14
                            When Andrew first complained of how his Maggies sounded, I suggested that his room was to dead, that he needed some reflective surfaces. Posters are good that are in plastic. Bookshelves as Bob suggested. I say go to the building materials place and start looking at possible solutions. How about some decorative tile designs that go around the room, straight for a while, then taper them up to a top corner, something like that. Just an idea. I agree, cover the absorptive surface, don't remove it.

                            Lex
                            Doug
                            "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                            Comment

                            • Andrew Pratt
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 16507

                              #15
                              I've been playing around with speaker placement this afternoon and its sounding quite a bit better now but I do still need to add more reflective surfaces on the back of the room. Doug's suggestoins of small squares could be interesting. I'll have to see what I can come up with. Of course I'm going to add some more posters as well. One thought I had this afternoon while listening to some nice 2 channel was that since my second row of seating is raised up 9" or so it means that directly behind my hear (well a few feet back) is a nice row of chairs that are likely absorbing really well....I'm going to see what effect it has if I move them out of the room since there's no point adding tons or reflective surfaces to the back wall if the chairs are going to block it all.




                              Comment

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