Dedicated theater questions for new construction

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  • bentiger
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 1

    Dedicated theater questions for new construction

    What's up guys!
    Long time reader, first time poster. I'm about to start building a house and have set a room aside for a dedicated home theater.
    Right now the my equipment is as follows:

    Onkyo dx575 receiver
    Pioneer Elite 45a dvd player
    Cambridge soundworks Tower 2s, centerstage, and surrounds
    Svs Pcs-plus subwoofer
    Toshiba 57H81 RPTV

    I'm trying to sell this equipment with the house that I'm in now. I'm pretty satisfied with it, so if I have to keep it, no big deal.

    The room dimensions in the new house are 15'6" x 20'0". The ceiling height varies. On the 15'6" dimensions, the ceiling height at the walls are 5' above finish floor, and it slopes to 10' above finish floor at a 45 degree angle. The rest a the ceiling is at a constant 10' aff. What would be the ideal setup for this situation? As I looked at other posts, the ideal seemed to be putting the screen on the 15'6" dimension, but if I were to go with a front projection, the size would be limited by the 5' ceiling height on that wall.
    I was also wondering about the staggered stud wall. Do you think this would be necessary on the wall that makes up the interior wall?
    What do you think?
    Thanks in advance.

    Ben Smith
  • Sonnie Parker
    • Jan 2002
    • 2858

    #2
    Hey Ben... welcome to htguide... glad to see another southerner join in.

    I would try to keep the screen on the 15'6" wall so you would have a depth of 20' from front to back... you could use a hanging screen probably about 2-3' out on the slope/angle. This way you can have 2 rows of seating. If you use the 20' wall as the screen wall then you will probably be limited to only one row of seating. Typically the first row would be somewhere around 10-12' so it would be crowded to have another row if your front to back depth is only 15'6".

    If you want to improve the sound proofing then staggered studs will help... especially on an interior wall. Although I used staggered studs on my exterior wall I'd think it would be less of an issue. If sound proofing is not a big concern then staggering the studs might not be necessary.

    I used staggered studs, R-26 (dual R-13) and double 5/8" sheetrock inside and ceiling, and single 5/8" on the outside with a solid double door system. The sound proofing might have been overkill but it works very well and was not that costly IMO.

    Those are my thoughts which are by no means professional.






    SONNIE

    Cedar Creek Cinema

    DVD Collection

    BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

    Comment

    • aud19
      Twin Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2003
      • 16706

      #3
      I used staggered studs, R-26 (dual R-13) and double 5/8" sheetrock inside and ceiling, and single 5/8" on the outside with a solid double door system.
      Sonnie, I read something strange in the current issue of Stereophile Guide to Home Theatre. There's a 7(?)-part "how to" series on building your own home theatre and under the "Common Mistakes" column they listed double sheetrock as one of them?! (Of course they gave no explanation as to why but....) Any one know why it's a "mistake"? I too was under the impression it was benneficial.... :?:

      Jason




      Need a new display? Questions about new display technologies? Visit RPTVs, plasmas, and other monitors @ HTguide
      Jason

      Comment

      • LEVESQUE
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2002
        • 344

        #4
        After doing alot of reading on this subject to build my dedicated HT, I have those answers:

        2 sheets of sheetrocks are ONLY for soundproofing. And usually you should go with 2 different thickness (1/2" and 5/8"), because both will absorb differentely. And all the seams shoud not overlap.

        That's what I"m doing right now in my HT. My wife don't want to hear a sound, so 2 sheets (5/8'' over 1/2'') of sheetrock is the way to go!

        Staggered studs, and in between, if you can find some Rhoxul Safe'N'Sound, that's one of the best option.

        Alot of caulking on all the seams to have a 'airtight' room will also improve soundproofing. And if you have some conduits for cabling or HVAC tubing, be sure to use flexible ducts and alot of caulking to be sure they will not transmit any vibrations through the walls.

        Double sheetrocks will not improve the sound. It's only for soundproofing. You then need panel bass-traps that will act has membranes, with some rigid firberglass has absorbers for mid-highs.

        I will alternate some panel bass-traps (with 1/8''plywood) 2'X8' (high-bass and deep-bass) with some mid/highs absorbers 2'X8' (rigid fiberglass 703 by Owan-Corning) on all my walls and ceiling.

        Then some 703 firberglass horizontally and vertically on the sofit on each wall of the room.

        And 5'' thick of 703 across the for 4 corners of the room, at a 45 degree angle.

        Then 100% polyester to keep the fiberglass fibers to go in the room, then GOM over all this.

        All the plans are at Ethan Winer site, with all the stuff you need to do those DIY traps.

        Have fun.
        To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

        Comment

        • Sonnie Parker
          • Jan 2002
          • 2858

          #5
          I really don't know how double drywall is a "common mistake".

          I would have to say I disagree with SGHT. Unless they give a rational explaination I'd say they are just plain wrong.

          Here's a good site to understand STC ratings. Of course a simple search will yield dozens of sites that would totally contradict SGHT.

          Here is a chart on STC ratings of single vs. double drywall:



          It's pretty evident that double sheetrock will help. Granted I only used one sheet on my outside wall but I also used staggered studding so I didn't feel like it was necessary for double sheetrock on the outside wall. My thinking was if I didn't have enough sound proofing with the one sheet on the outside then it would be very easy to add another sheet.

          As far as using 1/2" and 5/8" mixed... not overlapping them... I don't know. I don't see where it would matter that much, but I can't say that it wouldn't because I haven't tried it. I just know that overlapping and double 5/8" on the inside is working great for our room.

          When it comes to insulation I agree with numerous others in the HT forums that say the pink stuff is the pink stuff. I used plain ole insulation and didn't buy any expensive dedicated sound proofing brand. Again... it's is working for me.

          By all means I don't imply that the way I did my sound proofing is the absolute way to do it, but simply that it works for me... if anything I may have went a little overboard.






          SONNIE

          Cedar Creek Cinema

          DVD Collection

          BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

          Comment

          • LEVESQUE
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2002
            • 344

            #6
            Sorry if it was sounding like I ''knew'' the way to do it. I was just repeating what I have read countless times on different forums about building an HT and soundproofing.

            The consensus (if we can say such a thing exist...) is to go with double drywall of 2 different thickness to obtain good soundproofing. And alot of people did choose the Roxul product because it's suppose to yield good results. I was completely clueless about all this, so I had to rely on alot of different opinions. But this solutions seems to be the more popular one. But it doesn't mean it's the best one.

            I'm far from being an expert. But after talking with alot of contractors, friends and reading ALOT about that, it's the recommandations that are the most often talk about.

            I even built a 13'(L)X10.5'(H) concrete brick wall 6'' thick between the house and the HT to have the best soundproofing possible. You know... the WAF...

            But to each is own ''techniques'', and at the end, I think we probably have the same results. We just want good sound in the room and good soundproofing for the other family members and the neighbors.

            But there is so much different and diverging opinions on this subject, that we have to find what we think is the best solution, and then do it the best we can, hoping it will all work well. :roll:
            To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

            Comment

            • Sonnie Parker
              • Jan 2002
              • 2858

              #7
              Nahhh... I didn't take it that way Alain. As I said, I wouldn't know whether it would make a difference or not. Actually when I was researching it on the net and in the forums I missed the posts about using different thicknesses but I surely wouldn't see why it would not work as well and it might possibly work better. Although I haven't seen any tested STC ratings on using different thicknesses and there are numerous charts available. I would think that even if it hasn't been tested it should work fine.... we're only talking about 1/8" anyway.


              On the insulation part... I read a good bit about different types of insulation but several posts pointed me to a website (I'll see if I can find the link because I know it's posted in several threads somewhere) where there have been studies showing that the pink stuff was the pink stuff and one was not really better than the other as far as sound proofing. I doubt any of us HT folks have installed one or the other, ripped our walls down and tried the other and said twala... this one is better. Obviously that wouldn't make sense. You know what I mean. For those reasons I chose the cheap stuff... Owens Corning I believe or something similar.

              I also stated that my way was not the "chiseled in stone" way either but I do know it's working for me. I think it's good to have a witness to the effects from someone who has experienced what will work. That doesn't mean you have to do it that way but it might make you more comfortable with what you try. I don't think either of us have to be experts to figure this out.


              I do however take issue with the "common mistake" comment made by SGHT. You and I both (or rather our experience and research) seem to have proven them wrong on this.






              SONNIE

              Cedar Creek Cinema

              DVD Collection

              BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

              Comment

              • David Meek
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 8938

                #8
                Hi Ben, hi gang! :later:

                The differing thicknesses of sheetrock will absorb differing sound waves as they have different resonant properties. Overlapping the seams is a structural issue IMO, not a sonic one. It is a good thing to do if you go with double 'rock though - not overlapping can lead to shifting of the 'rock and consequently splitting/warpage of the seam tape - BEWARE!

                Staggered studs are a very good isolator if you have the extra couple of inches available for wall thickness, and I strongly recommend you go with them on your interior walls. The family will thank you in the long run.

                Your 5' vertical wall height on the 15' wall doesn't necessarily eliminate a screen. At an 8' height, you still have approximately a 9' width available correct? That's a nice size screen. I'd be more concerned with odd standing wave propagation from the 45 degree sloped ceiling. Have you modeled that yet?




                David - HTGuide flunky
                Our "Theater"
                Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

                .

                David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                Comment

                • LEVESQUE
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 344

                  #9
                  Interesting link about all those different fiberglass products on the market.

                  To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                  Comment

                  • Sonnie Parker
                    • Jan 2002
                    • 2858

                    #10
                    Interesting Alain.

                    Not a WOW difference but a difference.

                    Most of these appear to be mostly the rigid, panel, or board type stuff and not the interior wall stuff that I was referring to.

                    I think there were only a couple of 6" thickness comparisons in there and the difference was very minor on the 125hz that I checked. However the thinner acoustical absorbtion type panels show a slight significant range at 125hz that I checked. The 3" ranged from .4 to .8 which I wouldn't consider that significant.

                    I'd still like to find that info on the regular in-wall insulation... maybe I can find the time to look it up today.


                    Here's one link that is a good reference for building walls and explains insulation to an extent...



                    it's just one link but it's pretty good info from NAIMA (North American Insulation Manufacturing Association). If you read it then you will find in the context a chart that shows regardless of the density (not thickness) of fiberglass the STC rating is the same. IE... 2" thick fiberglass insulation with 1 pcf density and 3 pcf density have the same STC of 46.
                    Last edited by Sonnie Parker; 30 April 2004, 13:11 Friday.

                    Comment

                    • jazznsoccer
                      Member
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 87

                      #11
                      Here's another site with interesting (and expensive) options:

                      This website is for sale! quietsolution.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, quietsolution.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!


                      I think I'd try the double sheetrock first...

                      Comment

                      • Lex
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Apr 2001
                        • 27461

                        #12
                        If there is anything to the "don't double sheetrock", it likely deals with absorption/reflection, and creating "to" solid of a surface. I've not done it, so I'll rely on you guy's expernieces with what I read, buffered by good common sense.

                        Lex
                        Doug
                        "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                        Comment

                        • Sonnie Parker
                          • Jan 2002
                          • 2858

                          #13
                          That's a good point Lex. In my research I did find that if double sheetrocking it's suggested to at least use staggered studding if not double studding to keep some "flex" in the walls. Possibly the stiffer the wall the more bass boom off the wall area. I think this might be why we see some suggest the large flexible wood panels being built a few inches out from the wall to absorb some of the boomy bass.

                          Comment

                          • LEVESQUE
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 344

                            #14
                            Ethan Winer did write somewhere that with single sheetrocks, the lower frequencies (under 100-125) are passing through the walls and leaving, so causing no harm (I mean for the room acoustics.. but causing harm to neighbors and family nearby... :lol: ).

                            If you double sheetrocks, then you are trapping those lower frequencies, and the usual bass-traps will be less efffective because they can't absorb those lower frequencies. Tube-traps and 4" thick of OC 703 are not really absorbing anything under 80.

                            So to have good bass-trapping with the usual rigid fiberglass or tube-traps, you need single sheetrocks, or else you will have to deal with frequencies you can't control with the usual bass-traps.

                            So for me it was a choice between dealing with under 100 frequencies, or dealing with an angry wife complaining about the noise... 8O

                            So I did choose to deal with the bass... :B
                            Last edited by LEVESQUE; 05 May 2004, 14:49 Wednesday.
                            To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                            Comment

                            • David Meek
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 8938

                              #15
                              Alain, you sir are a wise man. :B
                              .

                              David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                              Comment

                              • aud19
                                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 16706

                                #16
                                :rofl: :rofl: :B

                                Jason
                                Jason

                                Comment

                                • Bam!
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2004
                                  • 2458

                                  #17
                                  Yup the ball and chain can be loud at times even louder than your 325 watts amp * 5!!! :lol:
                                  Got a nice rack to show me ?

                                  Comment

                                  • Sonnie Parker
                                    • Jan 2002
                                    • 2858

                                    #18
                                    The WAF played a huge role in why I may have went the extra step to sound proof our room. Some claimed I was going a little overboard but it's sure better to be safe and do it now (as simple as it was) than have to go back and try to fix it later.

                                    Fortunately it worked well. Ocassionally... though extremely rare... an ever so faint thunder roll can be heard while inside the house. It's not localized at all. Those super low frequencies are hard to sound proof but surprisely it's turned out pretty well proofed.

                                    Comment

                                    • LEVESQUE
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Oct 2002
                                      • 344

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Sonnie Parker
                                      The WAF played a huge role in why I may have went the extra step to sound proof our room.

                                      I know what you are talking about.

                                      Yesterday we did the ''shouting test''. She was standing in the other room while I was in the HT with all the door closed, and we were trying to hear each other.

                                      We were at 2' from one another, and we were not able to hear each other 8)

                                      She found it really impressive... :T I was sooooo proud :B
                                      To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                                      Comment

                                      • Sonnie Parker
                                        • Jan 2002
                                        • 2858

                                        #20
                                        LOL....


                                        I can be in the HT room watching a movie and Bug will drive up into the other half of the garage and I never know she's home. Sometimes she'll come home... go inside... get to looking for me and finally figure out I'm in the HT room.

                                        My dad came up to the house one Wednesday (my off day) looking for me. He walked all through the house and outside and finally went home. Later in the day I walked down to his house and he was asking me where I'd been. I stated "at home... where esle?" He told me he saw my truck but thought maybe I'd ran off with someone. I told him I'd been watching a movie. Then he started in that I needed to tell someone when I was in that room cause I might be dead and no one would know it. I asked him did he not at least hear a little noise from the room when he came through the garage but he didn't. I had been watching Underworld which is pretty constant with deep bass and I will usually crank it on up when I'm by myself. Then again he's somewhat hard of hearing at 68.

                                        Maybe I'll put a little red light above the exterior door that comes on with the system.

                                        Comment

                                        • LEVESQUE
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Oct 2002
                                          • 344

                                          #21
                                          Yes, I know.

                                          My wife is concern about the fact that this HT can potentially be a "death-trap". The whole house could be burning and we wouldn't know. With 6" thick of mineral wool in the walls all around and thousands of watts of sound, who would knows?...

                                          Don't laugh, I'm not exagerating. There has been a long thread on AVS forums about that problem. And I'm trying to find a solution...

                                          I will probably install those monitors for babies in my console and a cam to my HTPC...
                                          To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                                          Comment

                                          • aud19
                                            Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2003
                                            • 16706

                                            #22
                                            Geez 8O I never thought of that.... I guess the best solution is to make sure you have some sort of emergency exit be it door or window...just in case you need it....

                                            Jason
                                            Jason

                                            Comment

                                            • Sonnie Parker
                                              • Jan 2002
                                              • 2858

                                              #23
                                              This is a very good point of concern indeed. My dad was very serious about it.

                                              Our fire alarms are connected together so if one goes off they all do. I've already planned on wiring one to the HT room. I should have done this initially but it completely slipped my mind.

                                              Really though being in the HT room alone is safer than being outside working alone. Messing around outside with machines and tools is more dangerous than lounging in a recliner. None the less it would probably be good for someone to know when someone is in there.

                                              Comment

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