Music Sub

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  • CHC
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 5

    Music Sub

    :?: I am wading my way through the task of selecting a subwoofer for my two channel system. I currently have B&W DM 2000 speakers and Luxman amp, pre-amp.I am looking for a sub that is excellent with music. I listen to mainly Jazz and some Rock. My listening area is approx. 35 x 15 x 14 high with slate floors. My budget is approx. $1500 or below. I have auditioned B&W, Rel, Paradigm and Velodyne. My Current considerations are the B&W ASW 750, ACI Titan II, SVS pb2+, HSU VTF-3 MK2 or Aaire Dharma. Looking for suggestions.




    Craig Conelly
    Craig Conelly
  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    #2
    Craig, ordinarily I'd recommend the Dharma. Even though Adire is not currently supporting HTG, Dharma is an excellent choice though.

    REL is the number 1 "for music" subwoofer, IMO. There's really not much else I can say on that. I've enjoyed my Aerial SW-12. But then, even used it runs twice your allowed budget.

    I really don't have experience with the other subs.

    Goodluck,
    Lex
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

    Comment

    • Andrew Pratt
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 16507

      #3
      Those are all good choices...its going to be difficult to fill such a large room and those slate floors won't help either but for reinforcement in music raw volume isn't as critical as in a HT environment. Of the one's you've listened to so far which did you like the most and why? Keep in mind though that subs like no other speaker is going to sound vastly different in your room...and for that matter it will sound different depending on where its placed in your room




      Comment

      • Crimson
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 131

        #4
        Try the Vandersteen 2Wq.




        Q.
        Q.

        Comment

        • awtryau89
          Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 69

          #5
          Check out the James EMB-1000. It is in your budget and absolutely will eat a REL for lunch. I have just purchased the EMB-1500 for HT/Music duties and compared it to the Revel B15 and it is the best I have owned and heard. The 1000 may not quite get there on your room size so you may want to check out the EMB-1200. It is just out of your range but there are some dealers that will work with you.

          www.jamesloudspeaker.com




          Eric Awtry
          War Eagle
          Eric Awtry
          War Eagle

          Comment

          • Bam!
            Super Senior Member
            • Jan 2004
            • 2458

            #6
            Hello Gents!

            Well here`s my 2 cents

            My buddy has an M&K sub and I have to say transparency...wow...musical...double wow and it goes down low real low...

            Anyway even though it wasn`t one of the names mentioned I figured I`d throw this one in!

            Take care!




            Bam!
            Got a nice rack to show me ?

            Comment

            • dave
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2003
              • 434

              #7
              My Business partner owns the Miller Kriesel twin 15 inch driver sub, This Sub is extremely agile for all types of music it rocks when it's supposed to and as BAM said has an unbelievable transparency. A rock solid foundation to any system. I am also using a M&K for the lowend duties in my system, you won't look back on this one! Regards Dave




              dave
              Dave...

              Comment

              • Bam!
                Super Senior Member
                • Jan 2004
                • 2458

                #8
                CHC !

                So whatch ya got to say there fine lad?




                Bam!
                Got a nice rack to show me ?

                Comment

                • CHC
                  Junior Member
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 5

                  #9
                  Thanks for all of the information. I have read about the Vandersteen 2Wq and the James EMB-1000, and they both look promising. I need to do some research on the M&K. What about the Paradigm Servo 15? Whichever sub I purchase, I would like to audition in my home first. Very hard to audition in a store environment. The only store in Tucson that sells high end audio sells only B&W and Paradigm. Has anyone got an opinion on the B&W ASW 750 ?




                  Craig Conelly
                  Craig Conelly

                  Comment

                  • Bam!
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 2458

                    #10
                    CHC!

                    It is too bad you can not come to the Sound & Image show here in Montreal cause all of these companies are here auditioning their stuff!
                    :

                    Take care bud!




                    Bam!
                    Got a nice rack to show me ?

                    Comment

                    • robertwb70
                      Member
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 59

                      #11
                      I'll add another recomendation for M&K-one of the dual 12" push/pull models(I don't think they make 15" models??)-I've had an MX-90 for 10+ yrs and it's still the best box sub I've heard-and don't get too caught up in the power races my MX-90 has a 125 watt amp and most people would think it's too much(the amp/box/drivers were all designed together so the power is subjectively much higher-and M&K is honest with their ratings-some others aren't)

                      for your budget you could buy a new one but I'd look for used and get 2(they're not that big)




                      =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                      "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston
                      =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                      "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston

                      Comment

                      • Dr C
                        Member
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 86

                        #12
                        Hi Craig - saw this post earlier but thought it had died out ... but evidently not

                        While all the subs you mentioned are great choices, I'm surprised no one's come out (except for Lex/Doug) supporting Adire. Let me give you a small review on this.

                        I was caught in the same situation as you about a year back and asked for comments about subs. At the time I was considering the REL but decided that I was getting more and more into HT applications. reason was that new music additions (using CDs) were getting less and less. I have about 500 CDs and i've pretty much bought everything that I need. The new bands don't interest me much as they either rip off old tracks or don't sound very musical. Thus I found myself buying music DVDs of the artistes I have on CDs - especially since "live" on DVD is much better than a "live" CD. Thus I figured that I would consider more HT type subs and even though I still considered REL, it would be their Q series rather than the Stratas for example.

                        Then I asked for help on this forum, I realised that there were many other good brands out there. Attention was drawn to Velodyne and SVS and Hsu. While I was much in favour of the SVS, it sells thru the Net and since I live outside the US, it was impractical. Then Andrew came along and recommended getting the Adire Rava or purchasing the kit to save on freight costs. Upon getting the dimensions of my room (slightly smaller than yours) Andrew recommended the Dharman. The price of $599 was especially attractive.

                        Well I put an order for the Dharman "blind" and was pleasantly surprised when the unit arrived. It was double boxed, impeccably buffered.

                        Straight out of the box, I could hear improvements in the lo end. I 1st tried it with the Norah Jones DVD and the Dharman was very musical. My preference is for rock music and I put the unit thru its paces with DVDs from Limkin Park. While I was wary about "hurting" it, I must say that never once did the sub bottom out inspite of the high SPLs. Since then I have played LOTR thru the Dharman and even in the loudest passages, it never strained itself.

                        If any, my only complaint would be the lowest levels that the sub could go to. Being a ported design, the Dharman is tuned to 22Hz and cannot reproduce anything below this frequency. I guess only a few other models could go lower (the Velodyne comes to mind) but cost is so much higher. I have had no idea whether I'm missing much as 22Hz is plenty low ... and not much material is available.

                        One thing good about the Dharman is its relatively smaller size (note that I didn't say absolutely small size as it is quite large but smaller than other 15" offerings or tubes like the SVS/Hsu). It passed the Wife App Factor easily.

                        I would not hesitate to recommend you try the Dharman. I have been thoroughly satisfied with it and it is with thanks to this fine forum that I got this far. I support the idea of supporting our sponsors as far as possible (even ex-sponsors in this case :? ). However don't get me wrong - the Adire Dharman is one awesome piece of kit and i would highly recommend it ... ex-sponsored or not.

                        As for the rest ? Didn't consider B&W (despite my having B&W speakers) as I felt they didn't go low enough and cost a bomb. Liked REL but was 2-3 times more expensive than the Adire. Couldn't get SVS ... but it wouldn't have passed WAF anyway. Did like MJ Acoustics but was not powerful enough. Was considering Velodyne's HGS but hard to find in my country (on special order) and cost was much higher.

                        Anyway ... my 2cents. Hope you have fun with your new kit.

                        rgds - Dr C

                        Comment

                        • robertwb70
                          Member
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 59

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dr C
                          note that I didn't say absolutely small size as it is quite large but smaller than other 15" offerings or tubes like the SVS/Hsu
                          just for clarification the Dharman is a 12" subwoofer

                          both the rava and the dharman are very good values(insanely good actually) with the added benefit of supporting adire




                          =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                          "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston
                          =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                          "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston

                          Comment

                          • CHC
                            Junior Member
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 5

                            #14
                            For excellent musical subs, I keep hearing Adaire Dharman, ACI Titan and M&K.




                            Craig Conelly
                            Craig Conelly

                            Comment

                            • CHC
                              Junior Member
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 5

                              #15
                              Two additional "musical" subs that I have heard about are the Adire Taalam and the Onix Rocket twin UFW-10. aNY COMMENTS?




                              Craig Conelly
                              Craig Conelly

                              Comment

                              • robertwb70
                                Member
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 59

                                #16
                                I should have asked earlier but have you considered an IB sub?




                                =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                                "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston
                                =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                                "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston

                                Comment

                                • CHC
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Mar 2004
                                  • 5

                                  #17
                                  Sorry for the ignorance, but what do you mean by IB Sub ?




                                  Craig Conelly
                                  Craig Conelly

                                  Comment

                                  • robertwb70
                                    Member
                                    • Oct 2003
                                    • 59

                                    #18
                                    whoops :? not sure you're ready for this-are you at least a little handy with saws and cutting holes in the house?

                                    this should explain most of it for you- http://home.comcast.net/~ttriff/

                                    most consider an IB sub the best subwoofer you can have-and they are really simple to make and inexpensive for the performance provided-but they do require you-or someone you know to cut holes in your house and build something to hold the woofers(baffle or manifold)-and they aren't portable so are not an option for some--but I tell everyone who will listen-if at all possible go with an IB...you won't be disappointed




                                    =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                                    "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston
                                    =+=+=+=+=+=+=
                                    "The appreciation of music is subjective.The reproduction of music isn't."-Bill Dudleston

                                    Comment

                                    • Shane Martin
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Apr 2001
                                      • 2852

                                      #19
                                      If I could build an Ib I probably would but they aren't for everyone.

                                      FWIW, I owned an M&K Mx90 and indeed for music is pretty stellar. It won't reach the bottom most octave like the PB2+ from SVS but it does do the job. Considering this is a music system, I'd seek out the ACI Titan and I'd also consider one of the new Onix Rocket subs which one just won the $600 shootout. Since you have a larger budget I'd probably strongly consider the Titan or an M&K MX90. Both of these will be extremely smooth. I wouldn't expect these 2 to really blow my socks off for HT duties but if this is indeed music only then those 2 would be your best bet along with maybe a REL.

                                      Another option which may be too expensive but if you can get a discount is the Martin Logan Descent. I've heard great things about it.

                                      Comment

                                      • Matt Sprouls
                                        Member
                                        • Apr 2003
                                        • 83

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Shane Martin
                                        Another option which may be too expensive but if you can get a discount is the Martin Logan Descent. I've heard great things about it.

                                        I have the Martin Logan Depth and am very happy with it. Very musical and does a great job with HT also. I have read that the Depth is 90% of the Descent as far as performance.

                                        Regards,
                                        Matt
                                        Regards,
                                        Matt

                                        Comment

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