Best A/V receivers FOR MUSIC?

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  • jameswatson3
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2004
    • 3

    Best A/V receivers FOR MUSIC?

    I seem to be in the minority in the current market. I want a receiver that is top-notch for listening to 2-channel music, but will also provide adequate home theater.

    Which A/V receivers are known for music? Of course there are the Rotel 1055's and NAD 761's which I'm sure would sound good, but are they going to be noticably better than the Pioneer Elites or Denon 380x's? Of course now I'm changing the original premise of the post and getting into questions of value.

    I've even considered getting a garden-variety A/V reciever with preouts and hooking up a 200wpc amp to it for the fronts, but some people thought this might be a waste given the pre-processing of the cheapo receiver. Some of my primary concerns are:

    1. Power! I have large floor standers (Paradigm Studio 60's) and I want lot's of it.

    2. A warmer sounding receiver. Not bright.

    3. Made with 2-channel music in mind.

    What to do?
  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    Well as I see it you have a couple of options to ponder.

    Option 1

    Buy a Rotel 1055 and add a nice sounding 2 channel amp like the Rotel 1080 for front duty. The 1055's pre amp section is virtudally identical to the 1066 pre amp and if you can wait a little while Rotel's new 1056 receiver will be out that offers some of the features of the 1098 mega dollar pre amp (analog bypass mode)

    Option 2

    Buy an el cheapo receiver for HT and then get a nice power amp and a stereo pre amp that has a HT bypass mode on it to allow the HT processor to pass though the pre amp when HT is required.




    Comment

    • Bob
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2000
      • 802

      #3
      James,
      Andrew is right, if you really are as interested in music a AV receiver isn't the direction you want to go. You want a pre amp that has a AV bypass (which is most of them these days) and the least expensive AV processor you can live with.
      Let me give a very brief reason why. Let's start with the AV processor. In order to play DTS, DD, etc. soundtracks, it has to pass their standards in order to get licensed. So, for the retrivial of soundtrack info even the least expensive ones will do as good a job for that as the most expensive ones. Note, I didn't say they would sound as good, but they will retrive all the info that is on the DVD. AV processors are computers designed for movies and even the best ones make poor preamps for music. I had a Casablanca II with extreme DACs and any used mid priced pre amp outperformed it when it came to music.
      Where you want to spend the most you can afford, and so you don't have to feel the need to upgrade in the future, is in the preamp. I don't know what your budget is but, a used Rogue preamp might be a good choice. If that is to much there are many great preamps on the used market for under a $1000.
      As for amps, more wattage doesn't always mean better, or even louder with less distortion. Better to get a older quality 60-100 wpc amp rather than a newer 200wpc amp with a inferior power supply and poor current abilities. Of course, if you can afford a great 200wpc amp that is even better.
      By going with seperates, and getting the best preamp that you can it this point, you will save yourself a lot of grief in the future. If you start with a good preamp. should you feel the need to upgrade you can build on it. Perhaps a better CD player, maybe someday a different amp, maybe a turntable is in your future. The thing is the preamp can remain for years as the cornerstone that everything else builds on in the future.
      I hope this was useful for you, and parden the run on sentences and misspellings, I got Ds and Fs in English all through High School and collage and still can't write worth a damn.
      If you want a more thorough explanation on why AV processors or AV receivers are not as good as preamps for music let me know and I will go into it in more depth.

      Comment

      • Arnold van Oostrum
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2002
        • 121

        #4
        If you want topnotch stereo, you don't want to use an AV-receiver. Best option is indeed use a high quality stereo pre-amp/power amp (i.e. Rotel) and use a good quality AV-receiver. This receiver must have pre-outs on the frontchannels, so you can use the stereo setup for powering the frontspeakers.
        In this case you keep best stereo and still can enjoy AV-hometheater. It is the setup I have choosen.

        Comment

        • Jeff Aguilar
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2001
          • 126

          #5
          What I did was get an entry pre/pro for home theater (Outlaw/Parasound 855A) and a small tube amp for two channel music. I love the combo. The integrated tube amp I got was only about $600 and runs 30 watts a channel. That would be more than enough to push your speakers. It pushes my Martin Logans really well. For another $30 you can get the amp with a sub out.

          I do have to use an A/B switch to have both the Parasound amps and the tube amp going to the same speakers, but it works really slick.

          Jeff Aguilar

          Comment

          • Lex
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Apr 2001
            • 27461

            #6
            A Classe' CP-35 is a solid 2 channel pre-amp, price around 400-500 bucks. Amp, Parasound 1500A 2 channel amp maybe, or splurge for a Proceed HPA-2 used, around 1800 bucks.

            For the record, I agree, difficult to make a Cadillac into a Masarati. In other words, an AV receiver can have all the bells and whistles imaginable. But that doesn't make a sports car out of it. for best 2 channel, a 2 channel pre-amp, and separate amp will be best.

            Lex




            Cable Guy DVD Collection
            Doug
            "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

            Comment

            • Chris D
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Dec 2000
              • 16877

              #7
              Since my current experience is with Parasound, I'll point out that if you want pure music sound AND still have theater capability, both the Parasound Halo C1 and the C2 include straight-through analog bypasses to push a pure analog signal without modification. They will even do this through balanced connectors, if your music unit has XLR balanced outputs.

              For purely music, though, Parasound makes the P3 stereo pre-amp that is receiving rave reviews for its musical capabilities. (including the same XLR connections) For even better performance, you can pair it up with the stereo amplifier that was made for it, the Halo A23. You can check out professional reviews here:








              CHRIS
              Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
              CHRIS

              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
              - Pleasantville

              Comment

              • David Meek
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 8938

                #8
                James, to get this back to your question, and considering your requirements
                1. 1. Power! I have large floor standers (Paradigm Studio 60's) and I want lot's of it.
                  2. A warmer sounding receiver. Not bright.
                  3. Made with 2-channel music in mind.
                have you considered the top-end Yamaha's? I run an RX-V1 which is
                1. 1. strong enough to push my Aerial Acoustics 7Bs (86 dB sensitivity, 6 ohms)
                  2. very clean, clear, revealing and easy to listen to - not bright like mid- or lower-end models
                  3. built with a true analog bypass mode for un-processed 2-channel music
                Yes, pre/pros are in most cases superior, but since you DID ask about receivers. . . :




                David - HTGuide flunky
                Our "Theater"
                Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

                .

                David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                Comment

                • jpaik
                  Junior Member
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 2

                  #9
                  My situation is similar to many: 2-channel audio listening + DVD/HT surround audio needs. I also have both CD and vinyl sources for 2-channel listening. Just want to recap the two main options laid out in this thread, and see if I can fold in some of my current gear as well as purchasing new gear.

                  1). One option is to use a high-quality AV receiver (the Rotel 1055 was suggested) + a 2-channel amp to power the L&R fronts. I have a 1980s B&K ST-140, which I hope will do the job as the 2-channel amp.

                  2). The other option is to use a "cheap" AV receiver (for its surround processing strength and to power the center, and L&R rears) + a pre-amp with HT bypass + a power amp for the L&R fronts. The Rotel 1090 + my B&K amp could fit in here.

                  Here is another option? A pre-amp/processor (like, say the Audio Refinement) + a multi-channel amp (for the center, L&R rears) + my B&K for the L&R fronts?

                  I haven't yet priced these options but I think #1 is the least expensive. The twist for me is needing a phono stage in the pre-amp for my turntable. I could always get a separate one if it's not built in to the pre-amp (possible) or receiver (doubtful).

                  I'm big on music listening, and a big believer in the importance of concentrating on amplification. I have a quite small listening room, and any speaker suggestions would be great!

                  Input, suggestions, advice is welcome.

                  J.
                  Oakville, ON

                  Comment

                  • David Meek
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 8938

                    #10
                    Hi ya Jason, welcome to The Guide! :later: I hope you stay and play with us.

                    Yes, generally I'd say that option #1 is the least costly - less equipment to purchase.

                    You CAN get receivers with built-in phono stages. Yamaha is one (boy, am I starting to sound like a shill for Yamaha, or what?). But I recommend an external. They can be found for starters at very reasonable prices, say $200 and up, with up being many thousands. We can go into LOTS more detail on this issue if you'd like.

                    When you say "small room", just how small are you referring to? At some point, you'd want to look into monitor-type speakers rather than floor-standers. I had my Aerials in an 11' x 13' for a while and that was definitely too small an arena for them.




                    David - HTGuide flunky
                    Our "Theater"
                    Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

                    .

                    David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                    Comment

                    • Claude D D
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 465

                      #11
                      One brand that everyone seems to over look is Marantz.I used to sell it and have had the opportunity to compare it to many brands.The sound quality and build is excellent.Everything from the SR7300 on up is made in Japan.The SR7300OSE is a awesome receiver for two channel as well as HT.


                      Comment

                      • Andrew Pratt
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 16507

                        #12
                        Claude I quite like Marantz products but the last few reviews that stated that their receivers are woefully underpowered (27 watts a channel!) has seriously rocked my oppinion on them. Granted I'm sure not all their products are that bad but just the fact they released such a unit doesn't instill much confidence in them




                        Comment

                        • David Meek
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 8938

                          #13
                          Andrew, I ran over to Marantz' web site and couldn't find anything listed at less than 80 WPC. Was the review saying that was the actual output WPC? If so, that's embarrassing.
                          8O




                          David - HTGuide flunky
                          Our "Theater"
                          Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

                          .

                          David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                          Comment

                          • Claude D D
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 465

                            #14
                            Do you believe everything you read Andrew? Go give the Marantz gear a listen and you be the judge.Then tell us how underpowered it is.I got to compare a SR9200 to a Rotel 1065 and the Marantz kicked the Rotels butt hands down(and I own and love Rotel gear.)I can assure you if you go with a SR8300 you will not find it under powered.

                            Comment

                            • Bam!
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 2458

                              #15
                              hey all...

                              In the last while I have been pondering a kit that I think will do the job. I have had the same topic and many great replies and with that here is what I think would rule...

                              Bryston`s
                              9b SST...
                              Quite powerful and clean is not the word....There are some reviews that compare Bryston`s 7b SST monoblock against the 33h Levinson! While they all agree the Levinson has more than just refinement the 7B holds it guns...You know like wine...when you taste a great bottle and then compare one that everyone (hence 1/4 of the price)knows it is less but it still has body and complexity then you know it is good right?

                              Pre Pro...well here I am debating....RSX Rotel 1055 or 1056 since you can use the pre outs into Bryston. OR

                              SP1.4 from BRYSTON...More money thean Rotel RSX 1055 but...it will match the amps!!!Just kidding. That Bryston sound nothing else in these price ranges resembles it..Nothing.



                              Speakers...Angstrom Obbligatto for fronts. These puppies drink power...just like your paradigms...Bi amped with a 4b SST and you have died and gone to heaven! and would be nice as a future up grade plus they can be used a subs! (For Angstrom there are two..they would be stereo subs!)

                              I am just continuing my kit that I am working on if that is O.K!

                              DVD player... I have to say Musical Fidelity if money isn`t an issue ofcourse


                              Rear channel:


                              These things are so precise I have never heard anything else like them.

                              Basically this is what I am trying to move towards....




                              Bam!
                              Got a nice rack to show me ?

                              Comment

                              • craigdcan
                                Member
                                • Dec 2002
                                • 42

                                #16
                                Or....you could use an el cheapo receiver for surround, and pick up an integrated with HT passtrough, like Krell's 300iL, which is great, and can be found quite often on Audiogon, and the like(there is also a 300i, which, I believe, is the older version, with slightly less power, but still wicked, and very powerful)

                                -Craig

                                Comment

                                • dave
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Aug 2003
                                  • 434

                                  #17
                                  IMHO the way I got around this delema was to go out and look at dedicated 2ch. linestages. what I finally arrived at was the VTL Product , this is handling my 2ch. duties and then on the Pre-Pro side of things I am using a Rotel 1066 to handle the DPL end of it , this is all being fed into a RMB-1095. the cool thing about this setup is you can use the 2ch. linestage for you stereo needs and if you want to give your Music a bit more dimention you can add your Pre-Pros Center & Surrounds for just that right touch of Ambience. The VTL being that it's a tube Linestage really relaxed the agressivness of the 1095. Regards, Dave......




                                  dave
                                  Dave...

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