Bryston 14B SST Amplifier

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jimmyp58
    Super Senior Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 1449

    Bryston 14B SST Amplifier

    Does anyone have this model or heard it? I have the 4B SST for my main front speakers in my HT and I have the opportunity to upgrade to the 14B SST for a very good price.

    Any input/advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks....

    Jim
    jpiscitello@ameritech.net
  • David Meek
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 8938

    #2
    Sorry Jim, can't help with this one. Houston's not the best place in the world for access to high-end equipment. :evil:




    David - HTGuide flunky
    Our "Theater"
    Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

    .

    David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

    Comment

    • Phil Rose
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 142

      #3
      Jim,

      What are your mains and does the 4B SST handle them well now? If so, there probably isn't any real reason to upgrade. That said however, the 14B SST is a beast and you'll never run out of power. I believe that the SST's generally have the same output topology and should sound very similar. So, if you like your 4B then the 14B will give you more of the same.

      Also, check on power line requirements. I think the 14B needs a 20A feed where the 4B only needs a 15A. BTW, I like my 7B-STs.

      Comment

      • jimmyp58
        Super Senior Member
        • Aug 2003
        • 1449

        #4
        I currently have the Def Tech BP7000SC's for my fronts --- they're awesome. The 4B handles them very, very well.

        I am considering doing this upgrade because I can get full credit on my 4B if I trade-up to the 14B SST's. I spoke to Def Tech's senior engineer in tech support and he indicated that the more powerful amp will function more effortlessly with the speakers, resulting in a more open and clear soundstage. With this, he felt the 14B will make the speakers sound better than they do with the 4B.

        I figure that it is best to do this now while the amp still has its full value. If I wait too long, I won't get squat for the 4B as it will be deemed "used" equipment.

        Jim
        jpiscitello@ameritech.net

        Comment

        • Phil Rose
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 142

          #5
          Hmm, Is there a chance that you can try the 14B for a couple of days? I'll bet, and this is just a guess, that you won't hear a darned bit of difference. I don't think that you'll ever get to the point where the 4B is worth "squat" since it's a well respected amp and they sell very well on the used market.

          Isn't the 14B somewhere nearly double the cost of the 4B? So, it's not exactly chump change. If it were me, I'd take the $$ you'd spend on the 14B and get a new universal player like the Denon 5900 that's just coming out or, buy some new movies and save the rest for a rainy day. But that's just me and I know the exact emotions that are driving you since I battle my own monsters that keep me in this hobby.

          Let us know how the new amp sounds! :twisted:

          Comment

          • jimmyp58
            Super Senior Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 1449

            #6
            Hi Phil:

            Thanks for the reply and thoughts. This is what makes this zany hobby so much fun yet nerve-wracking at the same time. What I omitted in my explanation too is that next year, I will be upgrading my main speakers to some B&W Nautilus 801's which are truly power hogs; they'll require the extra power from the 14B that I don't have with the 4B. So this upgrade is for me to enjoy now and for the near future. If I wait until then to upgrade my amp, I'll take a beating on the trade-in value of the 4B as it'll be over a year old.

            As for a universal player, I've had the Denon DVD-2900 for about 4 months & I love it. I had considered upgrading to the 5900 but when I asked a number of folks about it, this new unit didn't offer me any sonic improvements over the 2900 (from all the technical news releases the sonic enhancements are for those folks that have the Denon AVR-5803 --- which I had and dumped!). I also took into account that the SACD format will be changing soon to SACD II so instead of "wasting" money on this "upgrade", I'll wait to see what Denon or Marantz does with a universal player that has DVD-A & SACD II (I don't use my 2900 for video, I use my SONY carousel for that).

            My rep always leaves the door open regarding my satisfaction. If I am not satisfied within the first 30 days, he'll give me full credit for any purchase, the 14B included. No questions asked. I'll take the money and "re-buy" the 4B should this happen.

            Thanks again for the input and I'll let you know what happens.

            Jim
            jpiscitello@ameritech.net

            Comment

            • Phil Rose
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2000
              • 142

              #7
              Jim,

              Since 801's are in your future it makes perfect sense to go for the 14B. FWIW, I have 802's with my 7B-STs and the amps don't ever run out of steam.

              Enjoy the amp!

              Comment

              • brucek
                HTG Expert
                • Aug 2000
                • 303

                #8
                Jim,

                Nautilus 801's which are truly power hogs; they'll require the extra power from the 14B that I don't have with the 4B
                Really? I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. A 4BSST can drive a set of 801's and still have time for lunch and a nap. The 801 is an 8 ohm speaker that enjoys a sensitivity of 91dBspl. The BP7000 is an 8 ohm speaker with a sensitivity of 92dBspl.

                The 4B SST is a pure dual mono design that can produce 300 watts into 8 ohms or 500 watts into 4 ohms. Believe me, that's an enormous amount of power and will easily drive the 801's. As Phil said, your money may be better spent on something else.

                In that regard, I would completely understand if you said I am going to get a 14B because "I want it"...That would make sense, but not that the 4BSST is not powerful enough to drive a set of 801's.

                If you are indeed looking to slightly better your sound I would advice (2) 7BSST's over a 14BSST. Being a mono block design, it allows you the luxury of placing the amps very close to your speakers, facilitating super short speaker cables with all the benefits derived from that configuration. The 7BSST is capable of 600 watts into 8 ohms or 900 watts into 4 ohms.

                Just my opinion..

                brucek

                Comment

                • jimmyp58
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 1449

                  #9
                  brucek:

                  You bring up an interesting issue that until now, I hadn't heard. Thanks. The question I have though is that the technical engineers at both Def Tech and B&W indicate that bigger amps simpler do better with bigger speakers --- more openness, clarity, ease, etc. Can/could the 4B suffice, certainly. Could the 14B do it better? Absolutely according to them.

                  I value the opinions shared on this forum and truly if I don't have to spend this money, I won't. I know that Phil has been skeptical too as well as Scarp. I simply have heard over and over that with the higher-end B&W speakers, they are power hungry, much like my Def Tech BP7000SC's. Last night, I really gave the 7000's some gas from my 4B and they performed flawlessly. They never even strained; they really shouldn't either. It is very intriguiging though to think what the 14B could do for them. As I said to Phil, my rep will give me 30 days so I don't have to worry but then again, I don't want to have to take it down either.

                  If you have more info, please share it. I'd appreciate it.

                  Thanks again....

                  Jim
                  jpiscitello@ameritech.net

                  Comment

                  • jimmyp58
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 1449

                    #10
                    brucek:

                    I just got off the phone with an engineer from B&W. I spoke to him r.e. some of the comments you provided above. He concurs that the 4B SST will do a very nice job on the 801/802, the true brilliance though will only come out with a much larger amp. They test their 801's with a Krell 600W X2 amp and he indicated those speakers give this amp all it can handle. I don't think he is trying to sell me because he does not benefit one iota if I upgrade my Bryston amp (I could see if he was trying to steer me into a Rotel RB-1090 which they co-market). So, again, I am hoping you can provide me further details to clear this all up.

                    Thanks for your time and consideration.

                    Jim
                    jpiscitello@ameritech.net

                    Comment

                    • brucek
                      HTG Expert
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 303

                      #11
                      No one can really clear this up for you. It's a matter of interpretation of their specs for the B&W's. I don't see why a speaker with a reasonable sensitivity and minimum impedance such as the 801 has, would sound any different with a 600 watt amp compared to a 300 watt amp given they have virtually identical THD+N and S/N figures and that your use is a home setting...

                      I guess I can give a first hand account that my 4BST easily drives my very inefficient ProAc Response 3.8 speakers with a sensitivity of 88dBspl. These are a very nice speaker (in the $11K range in Canada), but are considered a bit difficult to drive as such. My 4BST has no problem in my opinion.

                      I think it's important to size an amplifier appropriately for optimum sound. There are those that ascribe to the theory that unnecessary power with its associated large power supplies, high current requirements and all the voodoo required to control that power, doesn't result in a better sound - and that there is a certain 'delicacy' that is realized with a more reasonable max power output. I don't know if I buy into that, but there it is. I can do the math, and can't imagine you need more than 300 watts RMS headroom. Actually Bryston amps are woefully underspec'd. All my Brystons are 35 - 50 watts more than spec under bench test.

                      You said it yourself and you can bet your dealer knows the psychology. If I tell you that in 30 days if you don't like this new 14B amplifier and how 'incredible' it sounds you can bring it back and get your old 'lesser' 4B back.................well, not likely............you 'will' hear the difference...... :roll:

                      If you seriously want to make a change that has a good chance of helping your sound, get a pair of 7BSST's and put them directly behind your speakers with one foot 3 gauge speaker cable......

                      Just my thoughts....others may disagree.

                      brucek

                      Comment

                      • jimmyp58
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 1449

                        #12
                        thanks brucek...
                        jpiscitello@ameritech.net

                        Comment

                        • LEVESQUE
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 344

                          #13
                          jimmyp58.

                          Bryston amps have the reputation of all sounding the same no matter the wattage. So if your speakers don't need the extra power, no need to upgrade the amp.

                          BTW, I should receive the Denon DVD-5900 by the end of the week. I did the same thinking as you did, but the other way around!, and decided to skip the 2900 all together because it was a first try for Denon with SACD.

                          But DVI-HDCP is important for me (PJ), firewire upgrade is really near for the Anthem AVM20, adjustable Y/C delay directly in the player. I DVI out and 2 component out is important for me because I have a 40XBR800 in one room, a plasma coming soon in another, and a PJ coming in 1 month or 2...

                          BTW, I'm selling my Denon DVD-3800 for cheap, if anyone is interested just E-mail me!
                          To spend more $$$ on electronics without first addressing room acoustics is fruitless IMO.

                          Comment

                          • Victor
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 338

                            #14
                            Guys,

                            Let me shed some light on Bryston products for you. I used to do design work for Bryston in the mid 90s and I am very familiar with Bryston Power Amplifiers. All Bryston amplifiers regardless of the model fundamentally feature the same circuit topology. What differentiates Bryston from other manufacturers is the rather ingénues output stage. The rest of the amplifier is rather standard and well understood complementary design with origins dating back to mid 1970s.

                            The output stage kind of goes against the textbook since it is actually featuring voltage gain and it has its own feedback. This is the reason why Bryston amps have a rather exemplary THD behavior regardless of power levels and frequency. Krells or Levinsons do not even come close to those numbers. The second feedback is used around the entire amplifier and it is responsible for the amp’s overall stability. So all in all 2 feedback loops.

                            The 14SST amp is actually 4 amps in one box. Each channel uses 2 amps in a bridge configuration. Bryston does not tell you this little detail, however you can see it clearly if you look in the manual on their web site. Fundamentally each amplifier inside 14B SST is one channel of a good old Bryston 3B with ‘ST’ treatment.

                            By the way the ‘ST’ treatment does not really do much for the amp. It does lower the distortion a bit, but it does that because the power amplifier gain is half of what it used to be and so more feedback gain is available. The input buffer, i.e. the ‘ST innovation’ has a gain of 2 so the overall gain is as it used to be before the ST treatment. I remember when Stuart Talor came up with this idea. I personally never liked it. However, it works fine. In my view the older NRB line of Bryston amps is just as good as the ST line with marginally higher distortion, but at least NRB are classical power amps when ST actually has two signal processing stages, - the power amp the buffer. Why complicate things for the sake of marginally better distortion? I do not know. There are other peripheral improvement in ST line, such as soft start circuit and better wiring.

                            The 7BSST amplifier is marketed as a monoblock. It is not. It is also a bridged design with 2 beefed up (extra output transistors) 3B channels in a push-pull configuration. So the 14BSST is two 7BSST in one box with redesigned heat sink layout. Also I suspect that the SST series of power amps features upgrade output transistors and higher voltage transformers for marginally higher power.

                            All in all Brystons are very credible amplifiers. They are built very well with the circuit topology that’s old but good. Except for the output stage it is like any other power amp on the market. I always liked Bryston gear and would go for it if it were not as expensive as it is. These days a good amplifier can be had for a few dollars per Watt. Consider Rotel products for instance. They are in many ways just as good as Brystons with marginally higher distortion and inferior sheet-metal construction, but if you believe that amplifiers have sound, I guarantee you the Rotels will ‘sound’ identical to Brystons for a fraction of a cost.

                            Regards,
                            Vic

                            Comment

                            • Pieter Stolk
                              Junior Member
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 17

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Victor
                              Guys,

                              Let me shed some light on Bryston products for you. I used to do design work for Bryston in the mid 90s and I am very familiar with Bryston Power Amplifiers. All Bryston amplifiers regardless of the model fundamentally feature the same circuit topology. What differentiates Bryston from other manufacturers is the rather ingénues output stage. The rest of the amplifier is rather standard and well understood complementary design with origins dating back to mid 1970s.

                              The output stage kind of goes against the textbook since it is actually featuring voltage gain and it has its own feedback. This is the reason why Bryston amps have a rather exemplary THD behavior regardless of power levels and frequency. Krells or Levinsons do not even come close to those numbers. The second feedback is used around the entire amplifier and it is responsible for the amp’s overall stability. So all in all 2 feedback loops.

                              The 14SST amp is actually 4 amps in one box. Each channel uses 2 amps in a bridge configuration. Bryston does not tell you this little detail, however you can see it clearly if you look in the manual on their web site. Fundamentally each amplifier inside 14B SST is one channel of a good old Bryston 3B with ‘ST’ treatment.

                              By the way the ‘ST’ treatment does not really do much for the amp. It does lower the distortion a bit, but it does that because the power amplifier gain is half of what it used to be and so more feedback gain is available. The input buffer, i.e. the ‘ST innovation’ has a gain of 2 so the overall gain is as it used to be before the ST treatment. I remember when Stuart Talor came up with this idea. I personally never liked it. However, it works fine. In my view the older NRB line of Bryston amps is just as good as the ST line with marginally higher distortion, but at least NRB are classical power amps when ST actually has two signal processing stages, - the power amp the buffer. Why complicate things for the sake of marginally better distortion? I do not know. There are other peripheral improvement in ST line, such as soft start circuit and better wiring.

                              The 7BSST amplifier is marketed as a monoblock. It is not. It is also a bridged design with 2 beefed up (extra output transistors) 3B channels in a push-pull configuration. So the 14BSST is two 7BSST in one box with redesigned heat sink layout. Also I suspect that the SST series of power amps features upgrade output transistors and higher voltage transformers for marginally higher power.

                              All in all Brystons are very credible amplifiers. They are built very well with the circuit topology that’s old but good. Except for the output stage it is like any other power amp on the market. I always liked Bryston gear and would go for it if it were not as expensive as it is. These days a good amplifier can be had for a few dollars per Watt. Consider Rotel products for instance. They are in many ways just as good as Brystons with marginally higher distortion and inferior sheet-metal construction, but if you believe that amplifiers have sound, I guarantee you the Rotels will ‘sound’ identical to Brystons for a fraction of a cost.

                              Regards,
                              Vic
                              Interesting story! What's your opinion about Pass Labs amplifiers?

                              Comment

                              • Victor
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2002
                                • 338

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Pieter Stolk
                                Interesting story! What's your opinion about Pass Labs amplifiers?
                                It depends, which one?

                                Nelson Pass builds class-A amps. Personally I fail to see any benefits to class-A implementation. Another thing is a single-ended topology that is used on some amplifiers from Pass labs. I fail to see any benefits to that implementation just as well. The use of Field-Effect transistors throughout, as Mr. Pass does, would not be my design approach. I know that Mr. Pass has his reason for doing this.

                                Mr. Pass’s X-amp topology is very nice, and by far the best way to go from an engineering perspective, given what the Pass Labs offer.

                                I build the A-75 years ago when I was still in college. A-75 was a DIY offering from Mr. Pass. The design article was featured in the now defunct Audio Amateur magazine.

                                Anyway, - as long as the feedback feature of A-75 is used 100%, it is a very nice amp and so far is my favorite, in spite of the fact that it is a true monster of an amp that is absolutely useless in the context of being connected to a modern speaker with well controlled impedance curve and sane impedance numbers. On the other hand if your application is to drive a set of Apogees, particularly my favorite Scintilla model, then look no further then the A-75.

                                Comment

                                • Habs4life
                                  Member
                                  • Apr 2006
                                  • 85

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Victor
                                  Guys,

                                  I used to do design work for Bryston in the mid 90s and I am very familiar with Bryston Power Amplifiers.
                                  Vic
                                  Hi Vic,in Rexdale or Peterborourgh?

                                  Comment

                                  • Race Car Driver
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Mar 2005
                                    • 1537

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Victor
                                    In my view the older NRB line of Bryston amps is just as good as the ST line with marginally higher distortion, but at least NRB are classical power amps when ST actually has two signal processing stages, - the power amp the buffer. Why complicate things for the sake of marginally better distortion? I do not know. There are other peripheral improvement in ST line, such as soft start circuit and better wiring.

                                    Regards,
                                    Vic
                                    Huh, My old 7B NRB's have to what I would deffinatly call a turn on pop. :x
                                    Sounds like I could use this so called soft start circuit" :lol: I can't stand the pop, so my amps have been "on" for.... 6 months now? :lol:

                                    Overall, interesting read.
                                    B&W

                                    Comment

                                    • Victor
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Apr 2002
                                      • 338

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Race Car Driver
                                      Huh, My old 7B NRB's have to what I would deffinatly call a turn on pop. :x
                                      Sounds like I could use this so called soft start circuit" :lol: I can't stand the pop, so my amps have been "on" for.... 6 months now? :lol:

                                      Overall, interesting read.
                                      ...interesting indeed!

                                      Well, - you can cure your pop problem for about $5 and 30 minutes of your time. Get an Inrush Current Limiter and wire it into the AC line of your 7B. In fact, get two of them and wire them into both AC feeds. Look here



                                      Get the part KC007L and you are all set!

                                      Best,
                                      Victor

                                      Comment

                                      • Pieter Stolk
                                        Junior Member
                                        • Jan 2007
                                        • 17

                                        #20
                                        Thanks for your reply, Victor!

                                        Pieter Stolk

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        😀
                                        😂
                                        🥰
                                        😘
                                        🤢
                                        😎
                                        😞
                                        😡
                                        👍
                                        👎
                                        Searching...Please wait.
                                        An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                        Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                        An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                        Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                        An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                        There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                        Search Result for "|||"