Universal DVD players

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    Universal DVD players

    What are everyone's thoughts on these new universal DVD-A, DVD-V and SACD players? At the moment I have the Denon 1600 which is one of the best DVD players available and it also does DVD-A. I'm also using it as a CD player since I find its DAC's slightly better then those in my Rotel pre amp but I know that a stand alone CD player would likely best it so I've been looking at what's available for CD players. This is where the universal's come into play. If I want SACD as an option I could either buy something like the Sony 555ES changer whihc my dealer has for a sweet price or look at one of the universal like the Denon 2900. Now here's the kicker...my pre amp will only have one set of multichannel inputs so if I went seperate units I'd have to pick between SACD or DVD-A for 5.1 and leave the other as 2 channel...or do you trade in the Denon 1600 for the 2900 and get a universal player? I'm sure both DVD-A and SACD will sound fantasic on the universal player since even budget model SACD players apparently sound very good but its the redbook performance that worries me...simply put how good a CD player are the universal players? There's only two that I'd be interested in the Denon 2900 and the Yamaha 2300. In both cases their video performance isn't quite as good as my Denon 1600 though they're both pretty close and likely close enough for it not to matter to much but I'm just not sure a seperate SACD player like that 555ES might not sound much better then either universal player...with the only downside there being the juggleing of multichannel inputs (I don't think I'd want to bother with a switcher)

    So what do you think? Has anyone tried the Denon 2900 as a stand alone CD player? Of course if its a decent enough transport the DAC's in my pre amp might be all i need or add a DAC later...




  • Greg_W
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2002
    • 9

    #2
    Andrew;
    As chance would have it, I finally gave in and bought a new prog. scan DVD player yesterday, the Denon 2900. I haven't had that much chance to play with it yet and don't have any SACDs or DVD-As yet, but on CD I find it comparable to using the rotel 1055. The Denon is more forward and the Rotel more laid back but I haven't decided what I like better. I'm going to have to listen a while longer to see if there is any kind of break in evident. If you wanted to compare machines, drop me an email. I'll post more thoughts when I get more listening time in.




    Greg
    Greg

    Comment

    • Chris D
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Dec 2000
      • 16877

      #3
      Andrew, I'm beating my head against the wall about the same thing right now. :banghead: Right now all I have is a standard non-progressive DVD player with component outputs. What I want is DVD-video, HD DVI and component outputs, SACD, and DVD-audio. There are NO players out there, even very high end, that have all four of these as far as I know. Much less anything reasonably priced. I can find players with three out of the four, though.

      Me, looking down the road, I definitely see that within the next year we'll see a lot of players with all these options, and soon after that, I anticipate that most players will. Kind of like some early players being able to play "Video CD's"... now that's fairly standard and not even referenced.

      The problem is, I can't really wait for that. I need something now, at least for progressive or pseudo-high-def video. I've been looking hard at the Samsung DVD-HD931 and the V Inc. Bravo D1, both of which have a DVI output to send upconverted 1080i video. These pictures are supposed to be some of the cleanest out there, competitive or superior to reference DVD players, and from players that are only $299 and $199 retail, respectively. The Samsung was supposed to play DVD-A as well, but apparently that capability was dropped before production.

      So, I could buy one of these units, and then buy one or two more players for SACD and DVD-A, knowing that they'll be able to be replaced within a year or so by just one unit. That kind of burns me up, so I don't know what I'm going to do. Since the Samsung and Bravo are fairly cheap, I'll probably at least pick one of those up for now.

      Throw in good CD playback capability to this whole thing, and it gets even more troublesome.

      BTW, what is "redbook"? I've seen guys talking about it.




      CHRIS
      Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
      CHRIS

      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
      - Pleasantville

      Comment

      • Jeff Hartford
        Member
        • Jul 2003
        • 53

        #4
        Andrew-

        I have read several reviews were the CD playback quality of the Denon was felt to be exceptionally- comparable to a similarly priced stand alone player. For whatever that is worth. I also will be in the "only one set of 5.1 inputs" situation with my 985. I will probably go with the Denon but am unclear how this bass management issue will affect me as the 985 has no bass management ability (per Tim Wyatt of Rotel), but I am not running a subwoofer, just biamping my front speakers. I am wondering if the problem will not even affect me if it is only the .1 channel that is problematic??

        Again, CD playback, on the brief listen I had at a dealer seemed very detailed and pleasant. I am sure it is not an Arcam though.

        Jeff

        Comment

        • Danbry39
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Sep 2002
          • 1584

          #5
          The Denon 1400 is scheduled for release late September. It is universal and, I think, supposed to be the replacement for the 1600, with an msrp the same as the 1600, $549.




          Keith
          Keith

          Comment

          • Jeff Hartford
            Member
            • Jul 2003
            • 53

            #6
            Danbry-

            I had not heard about that. I had heard the 5900 was coming out likely Oct/Nov as I suspect a tweaked version of the 2900 without the flaws and perhaps upgraded audio. What will the 1400 be, a repackaged 2900??? It is not a 1600 replacement as that is not a universal unit. I suspect as many have stated that the next year will bring about a flood of universal players, at prices that will make them more attractive. Unfortunately, some of us cannot wait that out as I need a universal player, having only one set of inputs.

            Jeff

            Comment

            • danam
              Junior Member
              • Jul 2003
              • 25

              #7
              Hi guys, some friends of mine tested the DVD-2900 player, it's amazing for dvd-a and sacd ... but for regular audio cd ... hmmm they were really surprised ... in the bad way !
              it seems that the 2900 cuts high and low frequencies ... (excuse my english i'm french ...) compared to others stand alone cd players ...
              that was my 0,2 € ... err $ ! :LOL:

              Comment

              • Lex
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Apr 2001
                • 27461

                #8
                Chris, redbook is the latest 9.1 channel CD format, you not heard about it? JK :LOL:

                redbook refers to standard original 2 channel CDs. You know the kind you buy most your new release music on. That's all. It's just a fancy name for regular CD. I really don't know where the term redbook originates from though. :?:

                Lex
                Doug
                "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                Comment

                • Danbry39
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 1584

                  #9
                  Jeff,

                  From what I hear, Denon is coming out with a 1200, which is what the 1600 used to be, with DVDA only. The 1400 will be the same unit, with SACD also enabled. I'll try to get a link to a picture, but all I've seen so far is on Japanese text write ups. So, you might have to download a translator if you want to see the usually rough translation of what they're saying.

                  Here's the link. At least you can make out a few words and see the picture. I'll see if I can dig anything else that's better up for you.






                  Keith
                  Keith

                  Comment

                  • Chris D
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Dec 2000
                    • 16877

                    #10
                    Originally posted by danam
                    that was my 0,2 € ... err $ ! :LOL:
                    No problem, it's "cents", either way! (one is just worth a bit more than the other)

                    The 2900 seems like a fantastic unit, listed for one thing as having twice as much video buffer to combat layer change pauses. Cool. The 1200 is actually listed on the Denon website now, seems to be pretty similar to the 1600. I look forward to the 5900 and/or 1400, as Denon has historically made some great DVD players. Here's hoping they add a DVI output!

                    FWIW, the Denon site also now has info on the DVM 1815, a Prog. scan 5-disc DVD-A/V player.

                    Here's a model comparison chart from Denon's website:





                    CHRIS
                    Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                    CHRIS

                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                    - Pleasantville

                    Comment

                    • Jeff Hartford
                      Member
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 53

                      #11
                      I talked with the guys from Denon a few days ago. Without giving up anything they said the 5900 is going to blow some doors down. Likely price in the $2000 range (guessing), and I am sure with resolve all the 2900 issues and than some. No idea about DVI but if I was betting I would say yes. Wish I could hold off till than but I will likely pick up the 2900 and I suspect they will have some firm ware patches for much of the little glitches.

                      Jeff

                      Comment

                      • danam
                        Junior Member
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 25

                        #12
                        well the 1400 seems interesting !
                        we are waiting for one of our retailer (active on the french forum) to test it and confirm the progressive capability (progressive is not common in france, well it's getting more and more but not obvious to find it on a dvd deck).
                        he will probably test it on video and audio.
                        the audio part interests me the most in red book cd and sacd ...

                        wait & see !

                        Comment

                        • Andrew Pratt
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 16507

                          #13
                          Greg I'd loe to compare my 1600 to your 2900 for CD performance..if they're similar it might not make sense to upgrade to it since the video in my 1600 is slightly better then the 2900




                          Comment

                          • Dr C
                            Member
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 86

                            #14
                            Hi Chris - not sure if you had your answer to the redbook question but in short it is just one of many books defining standards for the various disk formats. I quote :

                            Red Book - Compact Disc-Digital Audio (CD-DA). This is the audio CD that you buy in a record store.

                            Blue Book - Book that defines the standards the Enhanced Music CD specification also known as CD-Extra or CD-Plus. These discs allow for data as well as audio to be contained on one disc and not cause damage to players not capable of reading data

                            Green Book - The CD-i (compact disc interactive) book of standards.

                            White Book - Completed in 1993 the white book also known as Digital Video defines VideoCD specifications.

                            Yellow Book - When referring to CD-ROM drives and/or standards the Yellow book is a book written in 1984 that defines the standards for a standard CD-ROM drive.

                            Orange Book - Book that was first released in 1989 by Philips and Sony that defines the standard for write-able discs. In this book you can find the standards for CD-MO, CD-R, CD-ROM and CD-RW discs.

                            Comment

                            • Chris D
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Dec 2000
                              • 16877

                              #15
                              Dr. C, thanks for the info! Truly the essay answer!

                              Well, I was in an Oregon A/V retail store today, and saw they had some floor models on closeout sale, including a Denon 2900 for $799, all literature and remote included. I was VERY tempted to buy it and run, since Oregon has no sales tax that would have been the out-the-door price. But having it on closeout makes me wonder if the store has inside information that the replacement (i.e. 5900) may be coming out shortly, and they need to get rid of it.

                              Such is the revolving door of electronics. If you buy a model right when it's released, it's going to be max priced by everyone. Wait a little bit for discounts to show up, and something newer and better is around the corner.

                              Well, I don't HAVE to have something today, so maybe I'll wait and see what happens with the 5900. If it is a universal w/ DVI, that's the holy grail for me. ($2,000 is way more than I want to spend, tho)




                              CHRIS
                              Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                              CHRIS

                              Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                              - Pleasantville

                              Comment

                              • Chris D
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Dec 2000
                                • 16877

                                #16
                                Oh... Andrew! Just wondering--did you get to compare the 1600 and 2900 side by side? Or has someone done a review rating the 1600 with a higher picture quality? That's rather interesting since the 2900 is one of their medium-to-higher class of players, but I can see that since the 2900 is also multi-function.

                                Another thing I was going to ask everyone-- what exactly is it about a player that makes it able to play various formats? Is the laser or reading unit any different? Or is it only software processing? If it's the latter, at least in part, doesn't that suggest that we'll be seeing players passing the signal through a digital audio connection to future processors/receivers that will have the capability to decode all these formats, like they decode PCM, DD and DTS?




                                CHRIS
                                Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                CHRIS

                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                - Pleasantville

                                Comment

                                • Danbry39
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Sep 2002
                                  • 1584

                                  #17
                                  Chris,

                                  About your first question, if I remember correctly, Secrets did testing on the 2900 and it had the chroma bug, whereas the 1600 didn't. I think they also said every other aspect of the video was exemplary, especially the progressive scanning.

                                  My last DVD player also had the chroma bug, but I never noticed it. Admittedly, I don't look for those things, so it might have been there. I've read that the chroma bug can vary in strength and that it affects some types of TV's more than others, although I'm hazy on this.




                                  Keith
                                  Keith

                                  Comment

                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 16507

                                    #18
                                    Or has someone done a review rating the 1600 with a higher picture quality?

                                    Chris as Keith mentions HomeTheaterHiFi did a test on this and most of progressive scan players and found the 1600 to be near perfect while the 2900 has the chroma bug...though its pretty minor compared so most players (esp Pioneer) and it has the huge buffer so layer changes are invisible. I believe with the latest firmware the chroma issue is just about completely gone and shouldn't be an issue for most people.

                                    I haven't done any testing of the two machines just yet...I'm still waiting for all the peices to fall into place and its going painfully slowly...I want it all and I want it now




                                    Comment

                                    • Chris D
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Dec 2000
                                      • 16877

                                      #19
                                      Wow, that's good to know. I got on Denon's website, though, and on their product page they have a handy .pdf file comparing their entire DVD lineup. The only current model that IS listed to have the chroma bug is the 2800 Mk II, with some of the others listed as a "No" after a certain production date. the 2900 is just listed as a flat "no", though.




                                      CHRIS
                                      Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                      CHRIS

                                      Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                      - Pleasantville

                                      Comment

                                      • jaakan
                                        Member
                                        • Dec 2002
                                        • 98

                                        #20
                                        Don't forget the Marantz DV8400 DVDA/V+SACD player with DVI under 2k.

                                        here is the but about DVI with it from Marantz

                                        " This output is not currently activated from the factory - We are awaiting approval from the DVD working group (Legal issues regarding copyrights, etc). When approval is granted, we will post the code to activate this feature on our website. Please feel free to call us with any questions. "

                                        Comment

                                        • Chris D
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Dec 2000
                                          • 16877

                                          #21
                                          yeah, I've heard about the Marantz. I'd be hesitant, though, to buy the player with the POSSIBILITY that the DVI will work in the future. I'll hold off, and if they activate it, I'll consider buying it then.

                                          I wonder why Marantz is having issues, with Samsung and V Inc. already putting the players out? The V Inc Bravo isn't even HDCP, which a small company like them may be able to get away with now. But it's not like Samsung is a small company that can slide through the cracks with questionable products.

                                          Still more than I wanted to pay for a player, with the Marantz




                                          CHRIS
                                          Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                          CHRIS

                                          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                          - Pleasantville

                                          Comment

                                          • David Meek
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 8938

                                            #22
                                            Stereophile's latest issue has a full review of the Esoteric DV-50 all-in-one player. It's not cheap at $5,500 US, but it plays Redbook CD/SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V and does all VERY well according to the review. Even on the test bench, it scored nicely with the only concern being a somewhat high jitter factor, but that wasn't evident to the reviewer.

                                            Here's a review of it (another very postive one BTW) by Soundstage if you are interested:
                                            1. Esoteric DV-50


                                            Oh FYI, Esoteric is TEAC's no-holds-barred high-end company. I wasn't even aware that TEAC was still around. It's nice to see them back in the game.

                                            Edited for content. Thanks Phil.




                                            David - HTGuide flunky
                                            Our "Theater"
                                            Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

                                            .

                                            David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin

                                            Comment

                                            • Phil Rose
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 142

                                              #23
                                              David,
                                              Wasn't the MSRP $5500? I really like the unit but at that price you'd have thought that they'd have included bass management for DVD-A and time-alignment for SACD. The new, soon to be released, Sony 9000 SACD has time-alignment for a heck of a lot less coin but, I really like the DV-50 and its fully balanced digital and analog main L/R outputs. Also, we don't know about the video but, I'll bet that it's pretty darned good as well.

                                              Danbry39,
                                              No offence but, it took me a couple of looks to figure out what your avatar was. I just couldn't imagine what significance a plucked chicken on a branch had! Doh!!!

                                              Comment

                                              • Chris D
                                                Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Dec 2000
                                                • 16877

                                                #24
                                                Keith- Actually, I was going to ask about your avatar. Maybe I'm just slow, but I can't figure it out. chicken on a stick? Or is that a back shot of Pooh or a koala climbing onto a limb?

                                                Andrew- I went back to the Secrets test and you're right, of course. It's good for me to revisit the tests every once in a while. I'm very comforted that Denon is obviously interested in doing well on those tests and putting out a good player free of bugs.

                                                I've read some more about the next Denon to come out. The top-of-the-line model looks FANTASTIC. Even had BNC connectors on the prototype pictures I saw. That would be the solution for me.

                                                The Marantz 8400 might be good as well if it is upgraded at all from the 8300 in performance. I can't find a straight answer on that yet, but it's kind of looking like the answer is no.

                                                I also found a Pioneer universal player (655 I think) for about $200, but performance would be a real concern.




                                                CHRIS
                                                Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                                CHRIS

                                                Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                - Pleasantville

                                                Comment

                                                • Harry Tuttle
                                                  Junior Member
                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                  • 12

                                                  #25
                                                  I am a very proud owner of a Pioneer DV 655A. Which I believe is the Australian version. It handles DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, CD, NTSC progessive scan (but not PAL), and is basically a very nice machine.

                                                  It is not in the same class as some of the other players mentioned, but to me, the shortcomings are only noticable in a direct comparison against the better machines.

                                                  The CD performance of the player has better channel separation, is more dynamic, and a tighter bass response than my CD player (12 year old Denon Multi-disc). OK, perhaps not the best comparison, but I do believe a similarly priced stand-alone CD player would perform better still.

                                                  Another Pioneer model that could be of interest is the DV757i (English Model No) which would translate to Elite 57i (???). And there is also a new Pioneer budget universal player DV56?.

                                                  I think the universal player is the way to go, until the final format for hi-rez is determined but include a dedicated stand alone CD player.




                                                  Harry
                                                  Harry

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Chris D
                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                    • Dec 2000
                                                    • 16877

                                                    #26
                                                    Bump... good topic to keep going. We're getting closer to the universal releases!




                                                    CHRIS
                                                    Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                                    CHRIS

                                                    Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                    - Pleasantville

                                                    Comment

                                                    • clm811
                                                      Junior Member
                                                      • Nov 2002
                                                      • 24

                                                      #27
                                                      Don't look now, guys
                                                      but Denon has their new Universal DVD models listed on their website.
                                                      There is a new model#2200, which features the #1792 D/A converter,
                                                      and the Retail price h: is about $600!!




                                                      Charles Moore
                                                      Charles Moore

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Danbry39
                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                        • Sep 2002
                                                        • 1584

                                                        #28
                                                        Yes, it was Winnie, but it's been changed since and will be again soon. Hmmm, a chicken on a branch might not be a bad idea after all.


                                                        clm811,
                                                        Thanks for the tip on the Denon site. I'm going over to check them out right now.




                                                        Keith
                                                        Keith

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Chris D
                                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                                          • Dec 2000
                                                          • 16877

                                                          #29
                                                          For everyone's benefit, I've started a new thread here on the new Denon players coming out to consolidate discussion on it into one place. Click on http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/inde...artRow=1&CFB=1




                                                          CHRIS
                                                          Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                                                          CHRIS

                                                          Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                                                          - Pleasantville

                                                          Comment

                                                          Working...
                                                          😀
                                                          😂
                                                          🥰
                                                          😘
                                                          🤢
                                                          😎
                                                          😞
                                                          😡
                                                          👍
                                                          👎
                                                          Searching...Please wait.
                                                          An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                          Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                          An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                          Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                          An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                          There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                          Search Result for "|||"