Lawsuit time for Sonus faber?

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  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    Lawsuit time for Sonus faber?



    Looks an awefully lot like this:



    Even the stands of the Usher favor Sonus faber stands, which mine pictured above are not on. Those are Lovans.

    They also have another speaker (Dancer) that utilizes somewhat of a lute shape, which I know Sf has a patent on. But the company "Usher Audio" (http://www.usheraudio.com) is in Tiawan. So who knows, can Sf touch them?

    Lex
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer
  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    Yikes there's a clear case of copy right infringement




    Comment

    • Crimson
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 131

      #3
      Actually, most likely not. Just off the bat, one has a front ported design, the other doesn't. One's baffle seems larger than the other's etc. I've seen quite a few bookshelf speakers that utilize that particular cabinet design.
      Q.

      Comment

      • KS
        Member
        • Jun 2002
        • 43

        #4
        I'm not so sure. Didn't the online speaker company that is so popular at AVS have to change their design? If memory serves the originals were built very much like the B&W Nautilus series. I know I'm getting old when I can't remember names but these were all over the net when first introduced.

        I wouldn't doubt that at the very least SF could bring pressure and apply a little heat.

        Ken

        Comment

        • Lex
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Apr 2001
          • 27461

          #5
          Well, looking at the stands, the wood columns, the use of marble, the design of the speaker. It's pretty obvious where their designs came from, that's for sure.

          Lex




          Cable Guy DVD Collection
          Doug
          "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

          Comment

          • Andrew Pratt
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 16507

            #6
            I'd gues sthis is colse enough that legal actions would be taken if it was an american company...being in the orient though might make it more difficult and yes the speakers at AV123 (or something like that) did have to change due to a lawsuit from the use of their tweeter being positioned on top of the cabinate. (the new speakers are Rockets but I too forget the old name ops: )




            Comment

            • RedStep
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2002
              • 154

              #7
              More millionares we made copying than inventing...And that is the greatest flattery...

              Having said that I remember when KEF came out with their latest high priced line copying the renowned B&W Nautilus line. They copied the Nautilus Tubes. (And a cheap copy I might add) My mouth dropped when I first saw them.




              RedStep
              We are truly a product of the decisions we make
              RedStep
              We are truly a product of the decisions we make

              Comment

              • LarryB
                Member
                • Dec 2001
                • 81

                #8
                Andrew:

                copy right infringement...
                As copyrights pertain mostly to printed material (like books), I think it unlikely that there would be an accusation of copyright infringement.

                However, it is possible that the Usher products might infringe one or more Sonus faber patents, assuming that Sf in fact has patented their designs.

                Last, it is possible that the appearance of the Usher is close enough to that of the Sonus faber products for Sf to claim trade dress infringement. (I believe B&W got AV123 to change their designs by threatening legal action based on trade dress issues. However, I think there were also trademark issues relating to the names of the AV123 products.)

                I hope this helps.

                Larry

                Comment

                • dsmith
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 114

                  #9
                  I have heard of suing over patents or copyrights or trademarks and logos, but not "trade dress infringement." I guess the lawyers are getting more and more creative these days and their client companies will do anything to lessen competition. Hell, Mercedes Benz could have sued all the Japanese auto manufacturers for "trade dress infringement" based on all the copycat sedan models they produced the last decade. But suing a small company in China would seem like a waste of time and money, especially since they aren't putting the Sonus Faber name on them, and there are significant differences. I think SF would be wise to do what Mercedes - consider it a form of flattery and let it go.

                  Dsmith

                  Comment

                  • dsmith
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 114

                    #10
                    Out of curiosity I decided to look into "trade dress infringement" and found this site to have good information:

                    http://www.escm.com/new/art/TRADEDRESS.html

                    My layman's reading of the law described here leads me to think SF would not likely prevail in a lawsuit since they would have to show the intent of the copy was to mislead the public into thinking they were buying a SF speaker, and IMO few if any customers would be so misled. However, just the threat of a lawsuit could itself have the desired result.

                    Dsmith

                    Comment

                    • LarryB
                      Member
                      • Dec 2001
                      • 81

                      #11
                      dsmith:

                      My layman's reading of the law described here leads me to think SF would not likely prevail in a lawsuit since they would have to show the intent of the copy was to mislead the public into thinking they were buying a SF speaker...
                      I respectfully disagree. The site to which you provided the link states

                      "..."any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, which -- (A) is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive as to the affiliation, connection, or association of such person with another person... [emphasis added]

                      Note the multiple use of the word "or." That is, if the device is lilkely to cause confusion, a trade dress violation may have occurred, even if the confusion was not intentional.

                      Larry

                      Comment

                      • Danbry39
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 1584

                        #12
                        Then, some of those names sold out of the white vans ought to bear some liability. Would love to see them sued.




                        Keith
                        Keith

                        Comment

                        • Lex
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Apr 2001
                          • 27461

                          #13
                          they would have to show the intent of the copy was to mislead the public into thinking they were buying a SF speaker, and IMO few if any customers would be so misled. However, just the threat of a lawsuit could itself have the desired result.
                          In some ways, I agree that it would be difficult. Reference locking barrel RCAs sold all the time very close to WBT. But there are clear patents on some things, international in some cases that could be easily constituted as violations. I don't profess to know what all Sf has a patent on, but I know they have a patent on the Lute shape loudspeaker for example. The dancer could be deemed to be in violation of clearcut patent law, that is enforcable.

                          Lex
                          Doug
                          "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                          Comment

                          • LarryB
                            Member
                            • Dec 2001
                            • 81

                            #14
                            Lex:

                            but I know they have a patent on the Lute shape loudspeaker for example.
                            Do you know the number of this patent(s), or even the inventor's name, as I would like to read it (them)?

                            Thanks...

                            Larry

                            Comment

                            • Lex
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Apr 2001
                              • 27461

                              #15
                              No Larry, I just read it in Sf promotional material somewhere either on their site or their US distributor. They didn't get that specific.

                              Lex
                              Doug
                              "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                              Comment

                              • ronm307
                                Junior Member
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 6

                                #16
                                Originally posted by LarryB
                                Andrew:

                                copy right infringement...
                                (I believe B&W got AV123 to change their designs by threatening legal action based on trade dress issues. However, I think there were also trademark issues relating to the names of the AV123 products.)

                                Larry
                                Those were the Diva's from AV123...they are still being sold in the states under a different name, Swan's, which I believe which is the PRC manufacturer.
                                AV123 now has new product lines with more to follow.




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