802Di vs YG Carmel vs Magico V3

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  • Freddie40
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2009
    • 152

    802Di vs YG Carmel vs Magico V3

    This was a very interesting weekend.

    Yesterday I stopped by Listen-Up in Denver and listened to a pair of 802 Diamonds (Rosenut). It was a very short listen, but read more for a relisten today.

    Last night I went to YG acoustics factory for a shootout between the YG Carmel (18k) vs the Magic V3 (27k). The room holding the demo was big, may 20 x 30 x 15 tall) and was well treated. The electronics were Krell Evolution and dCS Scarlatti 4-box SACD player. The speakers were connected by Kimber cables.

    These little speakers were wonderful sounding, great highs and midrange, but lacked deeper bass. I was so impressed, esp when compared to the more expensive Magico speakers. For the test they played 2 songs then switched the speakers and played the songs in reverse order. A very fair test. I walked out really liking the YGs, but I wondered about the lack of bass.

    Today I went back to Listen-Up (a place I am not impressed by). This time I brought my own music. The room was much smaller than the YG room, wasn't as well treated and used less expensive electronics (McIntosh). I also listened at a lower volume which I should have adjusted). I really liked the 802 Diamonds, they really did shine and did have better bass.

    Here is the problem I am have. I probably liked the YGs better, but how do you resolve the difference in rooms/electronics which where definitely in favor of the YG? I have already placed an order for the 802Diamonds, but any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Dave
    Crystal Clear Music Tweaked Mac Mini / Yosemite -> JRiver 20 -> Ayre QB9DSD -> Bryston BP26DA -> Bryston 4BSST2 -> B&W 802Di | Transparent Reference XLRs, Transparent Super Speaker Cable, Maple Shade USB cable, Crystal Clear Music Power Cords
  • emig5m
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2008
    • 646

    #2
    If you're spending that much money, I'd say it's mandatory that you be able to demo all speakers you're considering from the dealer in the same room, position, and electronics at the very least. My local dealer switched back and forth the 683 (brought from another room and gear) and the 804S a good six times for me in the same room and placed each speaker in the same exact spot each time they where swapped. They had no problem doing this for me, and I even tried to tip the salesmen for his time and effort with taking the speakers from one room into the other and swapping them back and forth multiple times but kept refusing to take my money. Finally I said I'll just leave his tip on top of the nice Conrad Johnson system that was powering the 683 and 804S and he finally took it from me, lol. IMO a salesmen going through the hassle of moving speakers around from room to room deserves a little something for his time and effort. :T

    IMO the absolute best way to demo speakers is in your own room and own system. Your room will shape the sound more than anything IMO (just like your own voice will sound different from room-to-room) and also alleviate any distractions from a store environment. The salesmen when I demoed the 804S did leave me alone in the room for every speaker switch without asking him which did help me a lot.

    Comment

    • wettou
      Ultra Senior Member
      • May 2006
      • 3389

      #3
      Originally posted by emig5m
      If you're spending that much money, I'd say it's mandatory that you be able to demo all speakers you're considering from the dealer in the same room, position, and electronics at the very least.

      IMO the absolute best way to demo speakers is in your own room and own system. Your room will shape the sound more than anything IMO (just like your own voice will sound different from room-to-room) and also alleviate any distractions from a store environment. The salesmen when I demoed the 804S did leave me alone in the room for every speaker switch without asking him which did help me a lot.
      Sounds like a great shop, I visited two dealers this weekend, The first one had amaizing equipment, Quad, Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage, Electrocompaniet, Pass, Lamm, LBM, Clearaudio ...and so on. Every room were smelly, like rat urine, the carpet were stained the paint coming of the walls?

      How do these guys stay in business, when I asked them to demo some equipment they asked me if I was planning to buy and when I said I first would like to listen they said sorry no can do. The guy that didn't help me was a F.F. (250 pound grease ball)

      I can't understand manufacturer that do business with them
      Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

      Comment

      • Freddie40
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2009
        • 152

        #4
        First of all the YG and Magico speakers were demoed at the YG factory. It was a club meeting where YG asked us what we thought of the two speakers. I thought it was cool to check out the speakers since I was in the market for a pair.

        The 802Diamonds were at a local store. I would love to have them bring the speakers (all 318 lbs of them) to my home, but since there is no way I will buy from them this isn't going to happen.
        Crystal Clear Music Tweaked Mac Mini / Yosemite -> JRiver 20 -> Ayre QB9DSD -> Bryston BP26DA -> Bryston 4BSST2 -> B&W 802Di | Transparent Reference XLRs, Transparent Super Speaker Cable, Maple Shade USB cable, Crystal Clear Music Power Cords

        Comment

        • emig5m
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2008
          • 646

          #5
          Originally posted by wettou
          Sounds like a great shop, I visited two dealers this weekend, The first one had amaizing equipment, Quad, Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage, Electrocompaniet, Pass, Lamm, LBM, Clearaudio ...and so on. Every room were smelly, like rat urine, the carpet were stained the paint coming of the walls?

          How do these guys stay in business, when I asked them to demo some equipment they asked me if I was planning to buy and when I said I first would like to listen they said sorry no can do. The guy that didn't help me was a F.F. (250 pound grease ball)

          I can't understand manufacturer that do business with them
          Wow! Don't you know that rat urine sets the mood for more critical speaker demoing! And a piss-poor snobby attitude will make you want to buy from them! :lol: That's crazy... If I had my own audio shop I would spend any free time I had that I wasn't dealing with customers to keep the place perfectly detailed and clean. Heck, even if I was just an employee I would take care of the place on any free time I had. I'm a stickler for bad smell and cleanliness, lol, I don't even allow shoes on my carpet. :E

          Yea the place I demoed the 804S didn't ask if I was buying or anything. I basically went in on a day off (in my ratty construction work cloths non-the-less, lol) and asked if we could bring the 683s into the room with the 804S and let me hear them back to back with each other. He would swap speakers, turn the system on and get it playing, then leave me alone in the the room until I went and asked to switch speakers again. Probably the most pressure and distraction free speaker demoing I've ever done. It was good enough I was satisfied to purchase without doing an in home demo.

          Comment

          • KyaDawn
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2008
            • 268

            #6
            Originally posted by Freddie40
            Here is the problem I am have. I probably liked the YGs better, but how do you resolve the difference in rooms/electronics which where definitely in favor of the YG? I have already placed an order for the 802Diamonds, but any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
            I think the most prudent thing for your to do is to cancel your 802 Diamond order until you figure out exactly which speaker you want to buy. $15K is an expensive mistake, especially if you are finding other speakers you might like better.

            The Carmel seems to be altogether a different type of speaker than the 802 Diamond. A better B&W comparison would be with the Signature Diamonds. This is also a floorstanding 2-way speaker that focuses more on the highs and mids than the bass. For the Carmel and the Signature Diamonds, seems like you could easily compensate for the lack of bass with a good sub.

            How did you find the V3 compared with the Carmel? It's interesting that YG Acoustics chose to compare the Carmel with the V3 rather than the V2 or even the Mini II as those seem to be more fair comparisons (for the Carmel that is!). It would be interesting to hear what you thought of the two speakers during the shoot-out.

            Keep in mind that YG Acoustics have been accused in the past of skewering the conditions to their favor at the shoot-outs conducted at their own factory. A reviewer was given a demo between the Anat Reference II and the Wilson Alexandria X-2 S1. He commented that he had heard the Wilsons sound MUCH better in the past. So food for thought...

            Comment

            • sikoniko
              Super Senior Member
              • Aug 2003
              • 2299

              #7
              at CES I really liked the big YG speakers. I should for the $38k they said they cost.

              I still feel that b&w speakers image better.
              I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

              Comment

              • Freddie40
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2009
                • 152

                #8
                Originally posted by KyaDawn
                I think the most prudent thing for your to do is to cancel your 802 Diamond order until you figure out exactly which speaker you want to buy. $15K is an expensive mistake, especially if you are finding other speakers you might like better.

                The Carmel seems to be altogether a different type of speaker than the 802 Diamond. A better B&W comparison would be with the Signature Diamonds. This is also a floorstanding 2-way speaker that focuses more on the highs and mids than the bass. For the Carmel and the Signature Diamonds, seems like you could easily compensate for the lack of bass with a good sub.

                How did you find the V3 compared with the Carmel? It's interesting that YG Acoustics chose to compare the Carmel with the V3 rather than the V2 or even the Mini II as those seem to be more fair comparisons (for the Carmel that is!). It would be interesting to hear what you thought of the two speakers during the shoot-out.

                Keep in mind that YG Acoustics have been accused in the past of skewering the conditions to their favor at the shoot-outs conducted at their own factory. A reviewer was given a demo between the Anat Reference II and the Wilson Alexandria X-2 S1. He commented that he had heard the Wilsons sound MUCH better in the past. So food for thought...

                They choose to compare between the 2 because they had a pair of the Magico V3 as a trade in. On the first 2 songs they played I really liked the Carmel. When they started to play music that we brought I started to wonder. What really happened is that they carefully chose 2 songs that the carmel played well. The hardest comparison was what would they sound like with my equipment and room vs their own. The room and equipment used for the Diamond demo was closer to my own. I just wish I had played them a bit louder.

                Overall I think I am going to stay with the 802 Diamonds. They are wonderful sounding speakers.

                Dave
                Crystal Clear Music Tweaked Mac Mini / Yosemite -> JRiver 20 -> Ayre QB9DSD -> Bryston BP26DA -> Bryston 4BSST2 -> B&W 802Di | Transparent Reference XLRs, Transparent Super Speaker Cable, Maple Shade USB cable, Crystal Clear Music Power Cords

                Comment

                • James63
                  Member
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 49

                  #9
                  I would cancel your 802Di order if I were you. As much as I like B&Ws I moved on to other brands of speakers after MUCH searching and listening. I have never looked back but I still have a place for my first hi-fi love B&W.

                  There is a pair of Yg Acoustics Kipod Studios for $18,000 (retail $38,000ish) on Audiogon right now. I was eyeing them myself but I think it would end in a divorce for me right now... lol. The speakers are in Chicago BTW.

                  It would solve your bass "problem" with the carmels too... nice problem to have by the way.

                  Edit: Thiel 3.7s are well worth a listen if you are open to other brands of speakers. They walk all over the 802D IMO. They are the best speakers I have heard regardless of price... but I have never heard any YG speakers.

                  They have great imaging, tonal balance and detial in spades. Bass is about as deep as the 802. It is not quite as powerful as the 802's bass but still has lots of bass. I found the bass much tighter on the 3.7 vs the 802D.

                  In the last 6 months I have demoed Magnepan 20.1, B&W 802D, Martin logan Spires, Wilson Sophias, Klipsch Palladium P-38F. The Thiel 3.7 are at the top for me and my taste. I value imaging tonal balance and resolution....

                  Nows the hard part for me, writing that check. I still want to hear the V2 and Carmel but in reality they are over my budget of $13,000ish.

                  Comment

                  • sikoniko
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 2299

                    #10
                    Originally posted by James63
                    I would cancel your 802Di order if I were you. As much as I like B&Ws I moved on to other brands of speakers after MUCH searching and listening. I have never looked back but I still have a place for my first hi-fi love B&W.

                    There is a pair of Yg Acoustics Kipod Studios for $18,000 (retail $38,000ish) on Audiogon right now. I was eyeing them myself but I think it would end in a divorce for me right now... lol. The speakers are in Chicago BTW.

                    It would solve your bass "problem" with the carmels too... nice problem to have by the way.

                    Edit: Thiel 3.7s are well worth a listen if you are open to other brands of speakers. They walk all over the 802D IMO. They are the best speakers I have heard regardless of price... but I have never heard any YG speakers.

                    They have great imaging, tonal balance and detial in spades. Bass is about as deep as the 802. It is not quite as powerful as the 802's bass but still has lots of bass. I found the bass much tighter on the 3.7 vs the 802D.

                    In the last 6 months I have demoed Magnepan 20.1, B&W 802D, Martin logan Spires, Wilson Sophias, Klipsch Palladium P-38F. The Thiel 3.7 are at the top for me and my taste. I value imaging tonal balance and resolution....

                    Nows the hard part for me, writing that check. I still want to hear the V2 and Carmel but in reality they are over my budget of $13,000ish.
                    you need to demo the avalons and the new usher diamonds.

                    all of the speakers you mentioned are OK speakers, but none of them can image like the b&w speakers. It just goes to show that everyones priorities in sound reproduction are different. I like to be consumed and enveloped. ML, Sophias, and Klipsch don't do that for me and Thiel is fine, but not my first choice.
                    I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                    Comment

                    • SRT-10 Viper
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 253

                      #11
                      When they demoed the Magico V3 and the YG Carmel were the speakers moved to the same spot? If not, let me guess the YG Carmel were inside the Magico V3s. It that correct? If so, that will make a big difference. If not (i.e. they were on the outside of the Magico's) then I would say take note.

                      Comment

                      • Freddie40
                        Senior Member
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 152

                        #12
                        The speakers were in the same spot and the volumes were set to be the same for both speakers. It was a fair test. I liked the YGs better. But, as for comparing with the 802Diamonds in a different place, that is another story. Listen-up definitely had worse electronics, worse cables, worse sound treatment and a smaller room. I think overall I like the 802 Diamonds better. I can't wait to get the ones I have ordered.

                        Dave
                        Crystal Clear Music Tweaked Mac Mini / Yosemite -> JRiver 20 -> Ayre QB9DSD -> Bryston BP26DA -> Bryston 4BSST2 -> B&W 802Di | Transparent Reference XLRs, Transparent Super Speaker Cable, Maple Shade USB cable, Crystal Clear Music Power Cords

                        Comment

                        • James63
                          Member
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 49

                          #13
                          Yea I would like to hear the Ushers and Avalons but I do not have a dealer. In the end I like to buy American brands (all I listed)... where are Avalons made?

                          B&Ws image very well but no better than the Thiel 3.7. On paper the Thiel should image better than the 802D because the dispersion is more uniformed and they are time-phase alined. But in the real world from listing they are both very good at imaging.

                          I guess I like the tone better on the 3.7 but there is nothing wrong with B&Ws.

                          As alway use your own ears and enjoy the music.

                          Comment

                          • Aiden
                            Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 56

                            #14
                            Originally posted by sikoniko
                            you need to demo the avalons and the new usher diamonds.

                            all of the speakers you mentioned are OK speakers, but none of them can image like the b&w speakers. It just goes to show that everyones priorities in sound reproduction are different. I like to be consumed and enveloped. ML, Sophias, and Klipsch don't do that for me and Thiel is fine, but not my first choice.

                            I agree with you that imaging is a priority, for me as well, but if there is anything ML's do well (one of the THE best speakers in this regard), is imaging and soundstage. There are just quite a few other areas where they lack severely IMO, to say they are comparable to flagship B&W.
                            Last edited by Aiden; 26 February 2010, 20:54 Friday.

                            Comment

                            • James63
                              Member
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 49

                              #15
                              Sorry if I have gotten this thread off topic (YG, Magico, B&W). My original post was just to point out that YG can be had for realistic prices used. I also think that if you have doubts about $15,000 speakers you should take the time and test drive the other models you are interested in.

                              As for the comments about Martin Logans vs 802D it is not so cut and dry. Pannels are very different from boxes in the way they image. I would argue that a point source is better on paper... may not be on application.

                              But there is a lot to like about the Spire. I had them in the same room same gear (Classe') as the 802Ds. The logans had a lot more fine detail in the mids and highs. They also have MUCH faster transients which make them sound very "real". In the same room the 802D had a HUGE killer sound stage but sounded like speakers in comparison to the Spire back to back (same songs with in two minutes of each other. But the logans have a lot of set up issues that need to be consider.

                              That goes back to the original posters question. How do you compaire speakers in different rooms and systems? It becomes very very hard. I had heard both the spire and 802D before that day but not together. If asked before that day which one was better before that day I would have said 802D but head to head it is a fine line and comes down to personal taste.

                              PS, sorry for the typos/spelling I post from my phone.

                              Comment

                              • Relentless
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 317

                                #16
                                Originally posted by James63
                                How do you compaire speakers in different rooms and systems?
                                You can't... I have heard 802D's at 4 different dealers and in my own room and the bass and midrange was noticeably different on some audition. The room and placement plays a huge part in the sound reproduction. You can get a general idea of what a speaker sounds like, and always bring you own music that you are familiar with to listen too, but you will never know exactly what you are getting until it is set up in your system in your room...... Love this hobby :B
                                I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive safely at death...
                                Lou

                                Comment

                                • James63
                                  Member
                                  • Dec 2006
                                  • 49

                                  #17
                                  I agree 100% it is also very important to understand your room and what works best.

                                  Comment

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