CDM9NT sounds BACKWARD

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Alex Tang
    Member
    • Feb 2008
    • 64

    CDM9NT sounds BACKWARD

    It's again about my CDM9NT. Originally, I thought it is because of the amplifier or receiver that doesn't give enough power, so, I listen to people's advise and got a Rotel RB 1080. I can definitely hear improvement over my Denon receiver, sounds more solid, more bass, very clear, alot of detail, it finally gives me back the sound of my previous Rotel receiver. However, I am still not satisfied. I have a pair of old B&W Martrix III with Adcom GF-555 amplifier and pre-amp, and it sounds better. I have been thinking hard of a word to described it, and I finally find one. My CDM9NT sounds "backward", or not as "forward". The position of the singer sounds maybe 1 meter further away then my Matrix III ... is it possible? Would it be due to the environment, or the EQ, or the position of the speakers? Would it help if I adjust the EQ? Or is it the nature of the speaker that nothing can change it?
  • Briz vegas
    Super Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 1199

    #2
    That could be as simple as the speaker toe in, how far apart they are, the source that you are using or the room. Swap out your matrix for the NT9 with the same positioning and angle then compare. If they still have a more recessed sound then it could be a chraacter of the speaker. I have the closely related 700s and they have been more forward sounding in my setup.
    Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
    Siamese :evil: :twisted:

    Comment

    • hifiguymi
      Super Senior Member
      • Mar 2007
      • 1532

      #3
      If absolute phase is being flipped in that system the singer could sound farther away. When absolute phase is flipped the soundstage is turned front to back. Try switching phase, red speaker cable to black amp terminal and vice versa, on both channels on the amp and see what happens.

      Eric

      Comment

      • Space
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 118

        #4
        Originally posted by hifiguymi
        When absolute phase is flipped the soundstage is turned front to back.
        Whoa!! Really? I'm suspending my disbelief until there's an explanation for this.

        No, disbelief is still going strong. Phase is just a matter of where you are on the wave crest. If there's not a phase imbalance then reversing phase is just a very slight shift in time. Certainly there's a huge change to soundstage when one side is reversed. But to reverse everything wouldn't have an audible effect.

        The sense of depth or forwardness has a lot to do with loudness. The volume knob can work like a zoom lens, so a clockwise rotation can bring the image closer.

        Comment

        • hifiguymi
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2007
          • 1532

          #5
          Here is a link that explains it pretty well.



          You should try swapping the phase on both of your speakers sometime. It's an interesting phenomenon.

          Eric

          Comment

          • Alex Tang
            Member
            • Feb 2008
            • 64

            #6
            I read that article, I cannot fully understand the theory, but it sounds like it says that the source can be out of phase, and if that's the case, then we should switch at the amplifier-speaker connection to make them in phase? Or for some pre-amp that can revert the phase, we can change that in the pre-amp?

            Comment

            • hifiguymi
              Super Senior Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 1532

              #7
              Some preamps can do it but not many. My suggestion was to try it on the amp because it's something that can be done without adding anything else into the system. If things get worse, then that is not it. If they get better then you at least have something to work with. You can then see if it's the source buy trying a different one and work your way down the chain if that is not it.

              Eric

              Comment

              • Alex Tang
                Member
                • Feb 2008
                • 64

                #8
                i will try it today. Also, I am using Denon receiver as the processor, and it has the Audyssey that it will detect if it is out of phase. But in the manual, it says "for some speakers, this error message may be displayed even if the speaker is properly connected. If you are sure the wiring is correct, select "Skip".

                I double check my wiring connection, and they are connected correctly on the polarity.

                Comment

                • Alex Tang
                  Member
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 64

                  #9
                  I tried switching the polarity, but can hear any difference. Also, I tried that Audyssey, it doesn't detect any out of phase. But I found out what the problem is. :P

                  In my Denon receiver, there is a function called Auto Surround Mode. It was set to "on". I tried turn it off, and the sound is more forward now. Although there is only a subtle difference, but I think this is the root cause.

                  Comment

                  • Dmantis
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 1036

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Alex Tang
                    I tried switching the polarity, but can hear any difference. Also, I tried that Audyssey, it doesn't detect any out of phase. But I found out what the problem is. :P

                    In my Denon receiver, there is a function called Auto Surround Mode. It was set to "on". I tried turn it off, and the sound is more forward now. Although there is only a subtle difference, but I think this is the root cause.
                    it goes further but your on the right track to fixing your problem. Get rid of the Denon receiver and use something else. Denon receivers sound dull and lifeless in my opinion. I never got any speaker package to sound its best off any Denon receiver and I have Installed them for over 11 years. I have Installed everything they made in all that time and always found something better for sound quality.

                    To make your cdm9nt's sound their best , you need to run electronics that are going to bring out the best in them. I suggest replacing your Denon receiver with a Pioneer Elite SC model and still use it as a preamp with your Rotel RB1080. Now this is only if you are running a full theater system. You can also try out a Marantz av8003 Preamp. This is a fantastic sounding preamp and will make your B7W's sing. NAD makes an outstanding receiver in the T785HD. This you will no longer need your Rotel amp. It has plenty of power and will drive your 9nt's very very well. Sound quality wise the NAD is superior to all other suggestions. it's not pretty looking like the Marantz or Pioneer but sound quality wise to me is the man.

                    When designing a system especially when using such damn good speakers like the CDM9NT's as mains , you need to have synergy in your system. If you have a piece thats lacking like a Denon receiver , you will get results like your getting now.

                    But thats not the only reason your system may sound the way it does. If you want , list your complete system including interconnects and speaker wire used so we can go over the entire system to see where all the weak links in the chain are.

                    Placement of the speakers in the room are probably the biggest factor before you get into power amps and weakness in the system. Without proper placement , there is no hope to achieve the best performance. The CDM9NT's are extremely fussy with placement . One inch off and you hear it. I have Installed these speakers many times and almost purchased them myself. I still would like to own a pair for a 2 channel system somewhere. Love them.

                    Get me some pic's of your room Maybe I can find a few problems in there that can easily be fixed. We together can get them to sing like I know they can. If in then you are still not happy with them , then we will talk about moving into something else. It is very possible you just don't like them but you have to set them up calibrate and have proper electronics to power them in order to make that decision.

                    Comment

                    • emig5m
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 646

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dmantis
                      it goes further but your on the right track to fixing your problem. Get rid of the Denon receiver and use something else. Denon receivers sound dull and lifeless in my opinion. I never got any speaker package to sound its best off any Denon receiver and I have Installed them for over 11 years. I have Installed everything they made in all that time and always found something better for sound quality.

                      To make your cdm9nt's sound their best , you need to run electronics that are going to bring out the best in them. I suggest replacing your Denon receiver with a Pioneer Elite SC model and still use it as a preamp with your Rotel RB1080. Now this is only if you are running a full theater system. You can also try out a Marantz av8003 Preamp. This is a fantastic sounding preamp and will make your B7W's sing. NAD makes an outstanding receiver in the T785HD. This you will no longer need your Rotel amp. It has plenty of power and will drive your 9nt's very very well. Sound quality wise the NAD is superior to all other suggestions. it's not pretty looking like the Marantz or Pioneer but sound quality wise to me is the man.

                      When designing a system especially when using such damn good speakers like the CDM9NT's as mains , you need to have synergy in your system. If you have a piece thats lacking like a Denon receiver , you will get results like your getting now.

                      But thats not the only reason your system may sound the way it does. If you want , list your complete system including interconnects and speaker wire used so we can go over the entire system to see where all the weak links in the chain are.

                      Placement of the speakers in the room are probably the biggest factor before you get into power amps and weakness in the system. Without proper placement , there is no hope to achieve the best performance. The CDM9NT's are extremely fussy with placement . One inch off and you hear it. I have Installed these speakers many times and almost purchased them myself. I still would like to own a pair for a 2 channel system somewhere. Love them.

                      Get me some pic's of your room Maybe I can find a few problems in there that can easily be fixed. We together can get them to sing like I know they can. If in then you are still not happy with them , then we will talk about moving into something else. It is very possible you just don't like them but you have to set them up calibrate and have proper electronics to power them in order to make that decision.
                      I've never owned a Denon, or probably no where near the amount of experience with different equipment that you have, but value peoples experiences that has had a lot of hands on experience with a bunch of different brands. My question is, what do you think of Yamaha? And also how Yamaha vs a Denon stacks up to each other? Everyone that's heard my system has been very impressed, but in reference to what? Their Bose and stock car systems? :lol:

                      BTW, I owned a 35wpc NAD integrated amp years back (like say 17 years ago, I still have pics of it I could dig up sometime) and can't say it was the most reliable piece I've owned. The right channel developed some type of major problem in the sub sonic frequencies that made the woofer pulse almost to the point of bottoming out but with no audible sound what so ever, and with no signal playing, lol. Just turn it on and the woofer would start to pulse uncontrollably. I couldn't comment on the sound quality because the rest of the system was junk (Optimus speakers for example).

                      Comment

                      • Dmantis
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 1036

                        #12
                        Originally posted by emig5m
                        I've never owned a Denon, or probably no where near the amount of experience with different equipment that you have, but value peoples experiences that has had a lot of hands on experience with a bunch of different brands. My question is, what do you think of Yamaha? And also how Yamaha vs a Denon stacks up to each other? Everyone that's heard my system has been very impressed, but in reference to what? Their Bose and stock car systems? :lol:

                        BTW, I owned a 35wpc NAD integrated amp years back (like say 17 years ago, I still have pics of it I could dig up sometime) and can't say it was the most reliable piece I've owned. The right channel developed some type of major problem in the sub sonic frequencies that made the woofer pulse almost to the point of bottoming out but with no audible sound what so ever, and with no signal playing, lol. Just turn it on and the woofer would start to pulse uncontrollably. I couldn't comment on the sound quality because the rest of the system was junk (Optimus speakers for example).
                        Yamaha is was a good receiver company. The DSPA1 was a benchmark when it hit the market. It was such a fantastic intergraded pre/amp. I really thought it could hang with any separates in it's price class and then some. Excellent dynamic range and control.
                        This kept them going for years. 2000 to about 2006 then they started to go a little down hill. All Yamaha receivers even there entry models had better dynamic range and control then any other receiver in their class. Sound quality was pure and clean. Some thought of them as bright. I thought of them as detailed and clean up top. Low end extension was excellent even on hard load speakers.
                        Todays offerings I'm not all that impressed. I found them to be not as rock solid as they once where in the past. I would not mate a Yamaha with a pair of B&W anything. I don't like the way they sound together. Back in the day I would use a RXV1 or a DSP1 without a flinch but today I don't have that going on. The RXZ1 was kinda good but I didn't feel the sound quality was as crisp and powerful as it once was.
                        YPAO room correction has to be the worse in the business. It actually sounds worse after calibration then before. Only system I can honestly say that. Even Bose room correction system seems to work very well. I don't get it.
                        Whats in your system my man? Give me a list.

                        Comment

                        • emig5m
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 646

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dmantis
                          Yamaha is was a good receiver company. The DSPA1 was a benchmark when it hit the market. It was such a fantastic intergraded pre/amp. I really thought it could hang with any separates in it's price class and then some. Excellent dynamic range and control.
                          This kept them going for years. 2000 to about 2006 then they started to go a little down hill. All Yamaha receivers even there entry models had better dynamic range and control then any other receiver in their class. Sound quality was pure and clean. Some thought of them as bright. I thought of them as detailed and clean up top. Low end extension was excellent even on hard load speakers.
                          Todays offerings I'm not all that impressed. I found them to be not as rock solid as they once where in the past. I would not mate a Yamaha with a pair of B&W anything. I don't like the way they sound together. Back in the day I would use a RXV1 or a DSP1 without a flinch but today I don't have that going on. The RXZ1 was kinda good but I didn't feel the sound quality was as crisp and powerful as it once was.
                          YPAO room correction has to be the worse in the business. It actually sounds worse after calibration then before. Only system I can honestly say that. Even Bose room correction system seems to work very well. I don't get it.
                          Whats in your system my man? Give me a list.
                          Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently using a Yamaha 663 (with a Emotiva XPA-5 power amp) with B&W 800s up front (804S/HTM3S), 685s in the rear, and a Sunfire Signature EQ for a sub. I think the Yamaha sounds great, but my point of reference is to some older Sonys which where very thin/compressed and low-fi sounding, even on lower end speakers like Cerwin Vega the difference was easily noticeable (comparing to my Carver stereo separates at the time). I've heard some high end brands at the store, but really wasn't all that impressed by it. I agree that YPAO doesn't do all that good, I use the initial settings then adjust to preference.

                          Could it be possible that AVRs are just too flip-floppity from year-to-year to really say a brand is either good or bad but more about a specific model from a certain year? I've always had poor sound from anything Sony (except some headphones) and even CD players using the analog outputs I could tell my Sony 400 disc sounded more compressed and muffled compared to my Pioneer 100 disc that I thought I was upgrading from (100 disc to 400) that was a lot more crystal clear and dynamic sounding. Maybe there was a reason the 400 disc Sony cost less than a Pioneer with only 1/4 of the disc space, lol. But really how do I know the Sonys of "today" aren't improved? I know the sour taste Sony audio products have left in my mouth over the years, I'd be hard pressed to try them again I'll tell you that.

                          My current Yamaha is my first. I only bought it because I needed an HDMI receiver that decoded the new formats AND because of the AVS forum deal that was going. I was scared it might actually sound worse than my previous Sony because the Sony cost around $1000 and the Yamaha was only $430, but man was I taken by surprise! The Sonys you had to EQ the hell out of them to get any tone and punch and the Yamaha was more crystal clear and punchier without touching any eq/tone control. Anyhow, what would you recommend to me that you would consider better sound quality over my Yamaha that is good enough to run on B&W speakers, but not a crazy hi-end expensive piece, but something with a price more down to earth. Maybe a Pioneer AVR with pre-amp outs?

                          There's at least one person that likes the sound of a Denon over higher end gear (and also using B&W 800Ds). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1220877

                          Comment

                          • Dmantis
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 1036

                            #14
                            Originally posted by emig5m
                            Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently using a Yamaha 663 (with a Emotiva XPA-5 power amp) with B&W 800s up front (804S/HTM3S), 685s in the rear, and a Sunfire Signature EQ for a sub. I think the Yamaha sounds great, but my point of reference is to some older Sonys which where very thin/compressed and low-fi sounding, even on lower end speakers like Cerwin Vega the difference was easily noticeable (comparing to my Carver stereo separates at the time). I've heard some high end brands at the store, but really wasn't all that impressed by it. I agree that YPAO doesn't do all that good, I use the initial settings then adjust to preference.

                            Could it be possible that AVRs are just too flip-floppity from year-to-year to really say a brand is either good or bad but more about a specific model from a certain year? I've always had poor sound from anything Sony (except some headphones) and even CD players using the analog outputs I could tell my Sony 400 disc sounded more compressed and muffled compared to my Pioneer 100 disc that I thought I was upgrading from (100 disc to 400) that was a lot more crystal clear and dynamic sounding. Maybe there was a reason the 400 disc Sony cost less than a Pioneer with only 1/4 of the disc space, lol. But really how do I know the Sonys of "today" aren't improved? I know the sour taste Sony audio products have left in my mouth over the years, I'd be hard pressed to try them again I'll tell you that.

                            My current Yamaha is my first. I only bought it because I needed an HDMI receiver that decoded the new formats AND because of the AVS forum deal that was going. I was scared it might actually sound worse than my previous Sony because the Sony cost around $1000 and the Yamaha was only $430, but man was I taken by surprise! The Sonys you had to EQ the hell out of them to get any tone and punch and the Yamaha was more crystal clear and punchier without touching any eq/tone control. Anyhow, what would you recommend to me that you would consider better sound quality over my Yamaha that is good enough to run on B&W speakers, but not a crazy hi-end expensive piece, but something with a price more down to earth. Maybe a Pioneer AVR with pre-amp outs?

                            There's at least one person that likes the sound of a Denon over higher end gear (and also using B&W 800Ds). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1220877
                            In my opinion you could do a lot better then the Yamaha rxv663. That is considered a budget receiver. you have reference quality speakers in the N804's , they are remarkable sounding speakers when you have the front end in front of them to do them justice. I suggest strongly in getting rid of the Yamaha and getting a nice preamp like a NAD t175hd , Rotel , Sunfire , Anthem or something along those lines. You will notice remarkable difference in sonic perfection which the N804's have the ability to do so.
                            I know nothing about the Emotiva amp. I have read many good things about them. I'd like to get some experience with them. I can't suggest their preamp as again I know nothing about them.

                            Comment

                            • Alex Tang
                              Member
                              • Feb 2008
                              • 64

                              #15
                              Please help me to see what can be improved. My setup is very simple:
                              Denon AVR 988 receiver (same as 2808ci)
                              Rotel RB 1080
                              Sony BDP350 Bluray player
                              Quartect Straight wire speaker cable
                              Regular RCA gold plated cable between Denon and Rotel amp
                              Regular HDMI cable between Sony Bluray player and Denon receiver

                              I previously has a Rotel CD player, but can't hear much difference with my Sony, so, I sold it. Also, I am not a big believer in expensive cables. Please let me know what is your suggestion that will give the biggest bang for the buck. I have thought about upgrade my speaker, I really like the look of B&W 802, but it is very expensive and probably out of my budget, and also may not improve alot due to my other component. Maybe I should add a pre-amp just for music.

                              There is nothing behind my sofa, it is the dinning room.



                              Comment

                              • emig5m
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 646

                                #16
                                Speakers too close to the back wall, hard wood floors, no sound absorption would be my "guess". I would toe in and angle the tweeters right behind your head too...

                                Check out some of Ethan Winer's videos on Youtube...

                                This 14-minute video from RealTraps explains the basics of room layout and acoustic treatment, and presents practical solutions to many common problems. The ...


                                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                                Comment

                                • Alex Tang
                                  Member
                                  • Feb 2008
                                  • 64

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by emig5m
                                  Speakers too close to the back wall, hard wood floors, no sound absorption would be my "guess". I would toe in and angle the tweeters right behind your head too...

                                  Check out some of Ethan Winer's videos on Youtube...

                                  This 14-minute video from RealTraps explains the basics of room layout and acoustic treatment, and presents practical solutions to many common problems. The ...


                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzmB...eature=channel
                                  Thanks for the input. I watch the video, it is almost impossible for me to set up something like this. The farthest I can pull the speaker is 10 in. I tried put a blanket on the floor, but I can't hear any difference to my untrained ears.

                                  Any other suggestions? how about adding a pre-amp? Or if want to change/upgrade the speaker, what would be a good choice? I would like to stick with B&W, my budget would be < $3000. I don't think the 7 series or CM9 would be a significant upgrade. How about 804 or 805? Would I get significant improvement? But there are no woofer on the 805, is it really "better" than a full range speaker?

                                  Comment

                                  • Alex Tang
                                    Member
                                    • Feb 2008
                                    • 64

                                    #18
                                    I finally take the Adcom GFP-555 and try out with my set up, all I can say is wow, it is significantly better than the Denon! I didn't expect that. I thought the most important component would be the speaker, then it is the amp ... I don't expect a pre-amp can give such a big difference. It is much more detail, the vocal is much forward and clear, and the bass is much punchy. I am trying to find a way to describe. My Denon sounds flat, the Adcom sounds much more dynamic and musical. It seems I can hear alot more note . I think I will add a pre-amp to my set up, any good suggestion? I think I can get the GFP-555 pretty cheap from Audiogon, but it doesn't have a remote, quite inconvenient. And it seems Rotel doesn't make 2-ch preamp?

                                    Comment

                                    • Dmantis
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Jun 2004
                                      • 1036

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                      I finally take the Adcom GFP-555 and try out with my set up, all I can say is wow, it is significantly better than the Denon! I didn't expect that. I thought the most important component would be the speaker, then it is the amp ... I don't expect a pre-amp can give such a big difference. It is much more detail, the vocal is much forward and clear, and the bass is much punchy. I am trying to find a way to describe. My Denon sounds flat, the Adcom sounds much more dynamic and musical. It seems I can hear alot more note . I think I will add a pre-amp to my set up, any good suggestion? I think I can get the GFP-555 pretty cheap from Audiogon, but it doesn't have a remote, quite inconvenient. And it seems Rotel doesn't make 2-ch preamp?
                                      Now that you have heard a difference by changing out the preamp , get rid of that Denon , there is no reason to own it you don't like the way it sounds.
                                      Get a preamp by NAD in the T175hd , this is the right piece for you. It will do what the Adcom did and more as it's also a theater preamp. This is a done deal.
                                      Also pull those speakers away from the walls ,they are getting killed there. They also need to be setup correctly. This will also greatly improve your musical performance playback. Please read the B&W manual and get as close to their setup as you can. I'll quickly give you some pointers.

                                      Ok your seating distance and feet apart of the speakers is fine. I can work with that but get them off the back wall at least 6 inches or more if you can. Then start toeing them in so that the point directly behind your head. When you sit in the middle of the 2 speakers at the seating position, you want to be able to just see slightly the insides of the speaker sides. Imagine a triangle , the tweeters of the speakers pointing the lines to the point right behind your head. This will give you a huge sound stage and clear center point. B&W probably does this the best out of all speakers made.

                                      So with these 2 changes in your system , you will greatly increase your listening pleasure. I also suggest an area rug. I see a Kids play rubber mat on the floor? That will work fine if it covers the entire front area of floor or at least the distance the front speakers are apart and then a little more.

                                      Comment

                                      • emig5m
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2008
                                        • 646

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                        I finally take the Adcom GFP-555 and try out with my set up, all I can say is wow, it is significantly better than the Denon! I didn't expect that. I thought the most important component would be the speaker, then it is the amp ... I don't expect a pre-amp can give such a big difference. It is much more detail, the vocal is much forward and clear, and the bass is much punchy. I am trying to find a way to describe. My Denon sounds flat, the Adcom sounds much more dynamic and musical. It seems I can hear alot more note . I think I will add a pre-amp to my set up, any good suggestion? I think I can get the GFP-555 pretty cheap from Audiogon, but it doesn't have a remote, quite inconvenient. And it seems Rotel doesn't make 2-ch preamp?
                                        Just curious, but where you using analog or digital connections with the Denon?

                                        Comment

                                        • Alex Tang
                                          Member
                                          • Feb 2008
                                          • 64

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by emig5m
                                          Just curious, but where you using analog or digital connections with the Denon?
                                          Not sure if I understand your question, with the pre-amp, I didn't connect to the Denon. My Sony Bluray connects to the Adcom connects to the Rotel all with regular RCA cables.

                                          So, if I get the Adcom, it will be used just for 2 Ch., and my Denon will be used for movie, sort of having 2 systems.

                                          Comment

                                          • emig5m
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Aug 2008
                                            • 646

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                            My Sony Bluray connects to the Adcom connects to the Rotel all with regular RCA cables.
                                            How where you connecting to the Denon? Analog or digital? (from the source)

                                            Comment

                                            • Alex Tang
                                              Member
                                              • Feb 2008
                                              • 64

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Dmantis
                                              Now that you have heard a difference by changing out the preamp , get rid of that Denon , there is no reason to own it you don't like the way it sounds.
                                              Get a preamp by NAD in the T175hd , this is the right piece for you. It will do what the Adcom did and more as it's also a theater preamp. This is a done deal.
                                              Also pull those speakers away from the walls ,they are getting killed there. They also need to be setup correctly. This will also greatly improve your musical performance playback. Please read the B&W manual and get as close to their setup as you can. I'll quickly give you some pointers.

                                              Ok your seating distance and feet apart of the speakers is fine. I can work with that but get them off the back wall at least 6 inches or more if you can. Then start toeing them in so that the point directly behind your head. When you sit in the middle of the 2 speakers at the seating position, you want to be able to just see slightly the insides of the speaker sides. Imagine a triangle , the tweeters of the speakers pointing the lines to the point right behind your head. This will give you a huge sound stage and clear center point. B&W probably does this the best out of all speakers made.

                                              So with these 2 changes in your system , you will greatly increase your listening pleasure. I also suggest an area rug. I see a Kids play rubber mat on the floor? That will work fine if it covers the entire front area of floor or at least the distance the front speakers are apart and then a little more.
                                              Thank you very much for your advise. I can bring the speakers out and toe them in. How about adding some blankets at the back of the speaker, does it help?

                                              The NAD T175HD sure seems to be a very good preamp, but it is quite expensive. I can only find 1 selling at Audiogon fro $2250. There is also a T175 (non HD) selling for $1149. I can live without HD for the movie. Besides the HD, do you know if the processor portion are the same?

                                              But the T175 is only the pre-amp, right? Then I need to either keep my Denon, or get another multichannel amp? I think that is a stretch for me right now.

                                              Or I can leave the Denon for movie, and get the Adcom GFA-555 for music which can be found for $200. Another concern I have is I haven't heard the NAD before, I am not sure if it will produce the sound I like.

                                              What do you think? How about a NAD 1600 stereo preamp? It seems I can find one pretty cheap too.

                                              Sorry to sound cheap, but for a guy with a family, this is only a hobby and I have other priorities, I need to get the best bang for the buck.

                                              Comment

                                              • Alex Tang
                                                Member
                                                • Feb 2008
                                                • 64

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by emig5m
                                                How where you connecting to the Denon? Analog or digital? (from the source)
                                                From my Bluray to Denon, it is connected with HDMI cable.

                                                hmm ... but you lead me to think of something. In the case of Adcom, if I am connecting the player to Adcom thru Analog ... that means I am using the DAC in Sony, right? Then, can I actually connect the player directly to the amp? It seems not ...

                                                Comment

                                                • emig5m
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Aug 2008
                                                  • 646

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                  From my Bluray to Denon, it is connected with HDMI cable.

                                                  hmm ... but you lead me to think of something. In the case of Adcom, if I am connecting the player to Adcom thru Analog ... that means I am using the DAC in Sony, right? Then, can I actually connect the player directly to the amp? It seems not ...
                                                  What I was getting at is the sound quality difference of the Denon might of been in using analog connections. I've found that normally the analog inputs in mass market AVRs not to have the sound quality of their digital inputs. If you say you where connecting with HDMI to the Denon and the Denon still sounded worse, well I guess that rules out that theory...

                                                  Originally posted by Alex Tang

                                                  The NAD T175HD sure seems to be a very good preamp, but it is quite expensive. I can only find 1 selling at Audiogon fro $2250.

                                                  Sorry to sound cheap, but for a guy with a family, this is only a hobby and I have other priorities, I need to get the best bang for the buck.
                                                  I was just doing some reading on the first NAD 175 and it seemed to be a very buggy unit... Speakers popping when switching inputs for example. Sounds like a good deal for two grand, lol. I would do your research before making a jump to anything. You might be into a bigger headache than where you're at now and be out of a lot of money in the process.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Alex Tang
                                                    Member
                                                    • Feb 2008
                                                    • 64

                                                    #26
                                                    I am more leaning towards adding a 2 ch preamp for stereo music. I am comparing the NAD 1600 vs Adcom GFP-710. They are about the same price in the used market. I don't need tuner, but I would like to have remote. The advantage of Adcom is I have hear the GFP-555, and I quite like it, and hopefully other models in Adcom would sound similar. There is currently one available on Aduiogon for $200, seems to be a good deal. the condition is only 6/10 with scratches. For the NAD, I haven't heard of it, so, I don't know how does it sound. But there is one selling locally on craigslist currently for CAD$220, seems pretty fair price, and it says it is in excellent condition without scratch.

                                                    Any recommendation or opinion on which one would you pick? I don't really need it urgently, so, I can wait for better ones .. but which brand would you go with my Rotel and B&W better?

                                                    Comment

                                                    • bigburner
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • May 2005
                                                      • 2649

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                      I am more leaning towards adding a 2 ch preamp for stereo music.

                                                      Any recommendation or opinion on which one would you pick? I don't really need it urgently, so, I can wait for better ones .. but which brand would you go with my Rotel and B&W better?
                                                      Hi Alex,

                                                      I have a pair of CDM9NT speakers powered by an RB-1080. Over a year ago I upgraded my preamp to an RC-1082 and I'm very happy with it. The tone controls on this preamp are particularly useful because my speakers can be too bright with some recordings and bass shy with others.

                                                      I agree with other posters about having the speakers toed in so they point behind your head, in my case about 1 - 2 feet. I've also improved the sound by pulling them out from the wall, in my case about 15 inches.

                                                      It's taken me a long time to get my system to sound right. An external DAC, careful integration with a sub, a large rug on the wooden floor in front of the speakers and heavier curtains have also been important ingredients.

                                                      Nigel.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • emig5m
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Aug 2008
                                                        • 646

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by bigburner

                                                        It's taken me a long time to get my system to sound right. An external DAC, careful integration with a sub, a large rug on the wooden floor in front of the speakers and heavier curtains have also been important ingredients.

                                                        Nigel.
                                                        Hah... I takes me a long time too. It takes me around six months with a new config making fine adjustments and trial and error before I'm at a point where I feel it doesn't get any better. Sub integration seems the hardest and most time consuming to "get right" to me as my room is naturally dampened with furniture, shelving, thick curtains at the side reflection points and also the back wall, wall-to-wall carpet with the thickest under-padding I could find (same stuff I find in some speaker cabinets for dampening material). The only thing I really had to do after the rooms natural dampening and dispersion is hang a carpet on the wall directly behind the listening position (I'd like to replace the carpet with a more true and traditional acoustic panel if I could only find some OC 703 locally.) I have this higher quality futon in the room directly behind the listening position and it's 12 inch thick, heavy, and dense cushion (feels like the cushion alone weighs 150 pounds, lol) is like the perfect bass trap, lol. I would like to get some OC 705 for bass trapping the front wall corners, but the rooms natural acoustics seem good enough for me. But I just got lucky that my room my system is currently in is naturally treated for the most part.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • theblue
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Dec 2009
                                                          • 116

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by emig5m
                                                          Thanks for the feedback. I'm currently using a Yamaha 663 (with a Emotiva XPA-5 power amp) with B&W 800s up front....
                                                          maybe this has you name on it?

                                                          Welcome to Emotiva Audio Corporation. Home Audio Systems, Speakers & Accessories and more. We use science to evoke the true emotion behind every note.
                                                          Marantz SR5002 (music fed by apple airport express via optical)
                                                          rotel RB-985 THX (4 channels bipowering fronts, 1 for the center)
                                                          B&W - 683, CDM-CNT, CDS3 (sides), DM601 (rears)
                                                          a combo of haveflex and audioquest cables.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • emig5m
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Aug 2008
                                                            • 646

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by theblue
                                                            maybe this has you name on it?

                                                            http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm
                                                            It would if it had a headphone jack (a must have for me, no exceptions) and wasn't so buggy. I bounce into the Emotiva forums from time to time (average once a month) and there where some people also having problems using it with a home theater PC. That's three strikes for the UMC-1 for me. No headphone connection, appears to be extremely buggy, and problems with home theater PCs. Maybe the XMC-1 will be more polished and stable... Now I'd order one right now just to check out the baseline sound quality then send it back within the return policy but their current stock is only for fulfilling pre-orders.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Alex Tang
                                                              Member
                                                              • Feb 2008
                                                              • 64

                                                              #31
                                                              I also tried connecting my Sony Bluray player to Denon using RCA to bypass Denon's DAC, the result is horrible. Afterall, Denon's DAC is not the worst.

                                                              I have pull the speakers forward (11 in. away from the wall), and toe in following people's suggestion. Can't really hear much difference, but I will keep it this way.

                                                              I bought a used Adcom GFP-710 from Audiogon for $200. Let's wait and see how does sit sound.

                                                              I have another question, but I will start another thread for that.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • emig5m
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Aug 2008
                                                                • 646

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                                I also tried connecting my Sony Bluray player to Denon using RCA to bypass Denon's DAC, the result is horrible. Afterall, Denon's DAC is not the worst.
                                                                Ha! That's what I was getting at....using the analog connections on lower end gear is just awful in my experience. I stick with using lossless (not even resampled) digital transportation and I've been having good success with lower end gear. Call me crazy, but I can tell when the signal is being resampled to a different frequency from my PC... Bit-for-bit perfect digital transmission from the source is what gives me that crystal clear clarity! Your Sony Bluray might be resampling CD 44.1KHz to DVD standard 48KHz? (yes I'm aware my AVR upsamples to 192Khz once it gets the signal, but it's the point of keeping the signal as pure as possible for as long as possible - you might not notice one veil being thrown over the sound, but start throwing in two or more and it starts to become noticeable).

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Alex Tang
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Feb 2008
                                                                  • 64

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by emig5m
                                                                  Ha! That's what I was getting at....using the analog connections on lower end gear is just awful in my experience. I stick with using lossless (not even resampled) digital transportation and I've been having good success with lower end gear. Call me crazy, but I can tell when the signal is being resampled to a different frequency from my PC... Bit-for-bit perfect digital transmission from the source is what gives me that crystal clear clarity! Your Sony Bluray might be resampling CD 44.1KHz to DVD standard 48KHz? (yes I'm aware my AVR upsamples to 192Khz once it gets the signal, but it's the point of keeping the signal as pure as possible for as long as possible - you might not notice one veil being thrown over the sound, but start throwing in two or more and it starts to become noticeable).
                                                                  Then now i have a question. When I connects my Sony player to Adcom preamp using RCA, I believe Sony is used for the decoding, right? Then .. what exactly is the Adcom doing? It is not doing processing, and also not amplifying. And the Adcom GFA-710 doesn't have digital audio input, so, I need to buy a good CD player then? 8O

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • emig5m
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Aug 2008
                                                                    • 646

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                                    Then now i have a question. When I connects my Sony player to Adcom preamp using RCA, I believe Sony is used for the decoding, right? Then .. what exactly is the Adcom doing? It is not doing processing, and also not amplifying. And the Adcom GFA-710 doesn't have digital audio input, so, I need to buy a good CD player then? 8O
                                                                    I don't know if you should get a better CD player - if using the analog outs/ins with a piece with competent analog ins I would 'assume' yes, if digital, probably not unless it's forcing an unnecessary upsample which most people will never notice anyway - I probably notice it because I'm using a PC as a source and its resampling is just probably inferior to hi-fi audio gear that's why it's more important for me to keep everything bit-for-bit perfect and untouched coming out of my source. I do know if I was going to use a CD player and it's DAC and analog outs or even an outboard DAC, I probably would NOT be comfortable with using my lowly Yamahas analog inputs....lol. BTW, I've never had luck with anything 'Sony' sounding exceptional except a pair of headphones from their higher end MDR series... Everything, from CD players to AVRs always sounded lower-fi then ANYTHING else I've used to me and it was easily noticeable even on much lower end speakers than B&W.

                                                                    My Sony CD player was a little muffled and less dynamics using the analog connections over my Pioneer (back when I still used CD players) which was just clearer and more dynamic. Same sound traits with AVRs - the Sony's always seemed like a step down from everything else I used, even comparing to Radio Shack Optimus AVRs (which where actually rebadged Pioneers). (Sorry to any Sony owners, they just performed the worst for me!)

                                                                    This is why I like all lossless digital transportation these days... you don't have to worry about signal degradation, poor analog in/outs or have to spend big money on high end components (or cables) to keep your analog signal clean and clear. Good fidelity can be had on the cheap.... but I think this is all moot for the problem you're experiencing. And I don't think anyone will really be able to give definite help without actually hearing what it's doing first hand.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Alex Tang
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Feb 2008
                                                                      • 64

                                                                      #35
                                                                      I think my main question is how to get the best out of what I have. And here is the thought process.

                                                                      A) Bluray ->(RCA) Denon receiver -> (RCA) Rotel amp ---- bad result
                                                                      B) Bluray ->(HDMI) Denon receiver ->(RCA) Rotel amp --- OK result

                                                                      So, the conclusion I draw is the DAC in Denon is better than that of Sony player. If I added the Adcom preamp, I think I have 2 options:

                                                                      1) Bluray ->(RCA) Adcom preamp ->(RCA) Rotel amp --- Good result
                                                                      2) Bluray ->(HDMI) Denon ->(RCA) Adcom preamp ->(RCA) Rotel amp - ?

                                                                      I tried option 1, the result is better than A above. I believe Bluray is doing the decoding, I am not clear what Adcom has done to make it sounds better.

                                                                      So, for option 2, it's like using the Denon processor, then out put to Adcom to do its "magic". Since A has better result than B .. would 2 also give better result than 1? Or I am adding too many components in the flow that will degrade the sound quality?

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • stuofsci02
                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                        • Nov 2009
                                                                        • 1241

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by emig5m
                                                                        This is why I like all lossless digital transportation these days... you don't have to worry about signal degradation, poor analog in/outs or have to spend big money on high end components (or cables) to keep your analog signal clean and clear. Good fidelity can be had on the cheap.... but I think this is all moot for the problem you're experiencing. And I don't think anyone will really be able to give definite help without actually hearing what it's doing first hand.
                                                                        This is partially true, but there is still much that can degrade sound in the digital world also including jitter. In the end your Pre/Pro still have to convert back to analog, and in my experience a nice pre/pro with 10 digital inputs can never compete with a "Good" dedicated CD player with a single analog stream.
                                                                        Main System:
                                                                        B&W 801D
                                                                        Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                        Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                        Oppo BDP-105
                                                                        Squeezebox Touch


                                                                        Second System:
                                                                        B&W CM7
                                                                        Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                        Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                        Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                        Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • stuofsci02
                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                          • Nov 2009
                                                                          • 1241

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                                          I think my main question is how to get the best out of what I have. And here is the thought process.

                                                                          A) Bluray ->(RCA) Denon receiver -> (RCA) Rotel amp ---- bad result
                                                                          B) Bluray ->(HDMI) Denon receiver ->(RCA) Rotel amp --- OK result

                                                                          So, the conclusion I draw is the DAC in Denon is better than that of Sony player. If I added the Adcom preamp, I think I have 2 options:

                                                                          1) Bluray ->(RCA) Adcom preamp ->(RCA) Rotel amp --- Good result
                                                                          2) Bluray ->(HDMI) Denon ->(RCA) Adcom preamp ->(RCA) Rotel amp - ?

                                                                          I tried option 1, the result is better than A above. I believe Bluray is doing the decoding, I am not clear what Adcom has done to make it sounds better.

                                                                          So, for option 2, it's like using the Denon processor, then out put to Adcom to do its "magic". Since A has better result than B .. would 2 also give better result than 1? Or I am adding too many components in the flow that will degrade the sound quality?
                                                                          My first recommendation would be not to use your Blu-Ray as a source.. I also have/had the Sony 350 and it is not a good CD source unless you will run the digital outputs to another DAC.

                                                                          That said you can run the digital to your Denon and be alright, but you won't be getting the most from your system. If you use the Adcom as a pre-amp you don't want to put the Denon in front if you dont have to..

                                                                          My suggestion for true Stereo setup would be to get a half decent CD player and run RCA directly to the Adcom and then to the Rotel..
                                                                          Main System:
                                                                          B&W 801D
                                                                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                          Oppo BDP-105
                                                                          Squeezebox Touch


                                                                          Second System:
                                                                          B&W CM7
                                                                          Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                          Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • emig5m
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Aug 2008
                                                                            • 646

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                                            This is partially true, but there is still much that can degrade sound in the digital world also including jitter. In the end your Pre/Pro still have to convert back to analog, and in my experience a nice pre/pro with 10 digital inputs can never compete with a "Good" dedicated CD player with a single analog stream.
                                                                            I agree that "still much that can degrade sound in the digital world" hence why I mentioned I could notice a difference when my PC did an extra and unnecessary resampling step and why I'm such a stickler for bit-for-bit perfect transportation with no signal sodomy until the very end where you have no choice. I wouldn't go back to using CD players if someone bought me ten brand new sets of 800D's and gave them to me for free... Having EVERYTHING on tap in the same box is so much better and convenient than monkeying through CD, DVD, Blu-Ray collections, and swapping discs in and out constantly. Yea I used to have a 100 and 400 disc CD changer, but still too slow and cumbersome (and mechanically noisy when they switch discs). One box, with one HDMI cable, and everything in your entire collection (even video) a couple clicks away for me. : I had the idea of a HTPC years and years before the term was ever made and the first one was commercially marketed and sold. I should of been the one collecting the dough for the idea! :E

                                                                            Anyway... an alternative way would be using a separate high quality DAC+pre-amp with a PC as a digital transport...

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • stuofsci02
                                                                              Super Senior Member
                                                                              • Nov 2009
                                                                              • 1241

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Yes... Of course CD is cumbersome. I use a SqueezeBox connected wirelessly to my PC where I have 100's of gigs of Lossless files in FLAC and AAC format. Certainly much handier. The problem of course is my OPPO CD source sounds better playing the same files, so until I can afford a sweet external DAC, I have been burning my FLAC files back to CD to play in the OPPO..

                                                                              I am not sure if you have had trouble with the HDMI, but that would be my least favourite method of digital connection. I would prefer to go Coax or TOSlink.

                                                                              The problem with a music server is for most people this will involve equipment that they don't have, so we should really use the word "source" to represent any device the is outputing an analog signal. This could be a CD player, or it could be something connected to an external DAC or Pre/Pro. In the end, for me the source makes much of the difference.
                                                                              Main System:
                                                                              B&W 801D
                                                                              Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                              Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                              Oppo BDP-105
                                                                              Squeezebox Touch


                                                                              Second System:
                                                                              B&W CM7
                                                                              Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                              Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                              Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                              Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Alex Tang
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Feb 2008
                                                                                • 64

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by stuofsci02

                                                                                That said you can run the digital to your Denon and be alright, but you won't be getting the most from your system. If you use the Adcom as a pre-amp you don't want to put the Denon in front if you dont have to..
                                                                                I think I will try both set up and see how it goes. And I may add a decent CD player later since I read a post that someone get a pretty good CD player on eBay for $50 bucks or so. (BTW, any good suggestion?)

                                                                                Anyway, for the sake of discussion, why connecting my CD player to Denon then to Adcom is not good? I believe the most critical part that will impact the sound quality in a player is the DAC. So, by sending data to Denon through digital (where there should be no loss), we are using the better Denon DAC. This should be equivalent to having a decent Cd player with good DAC, right?

                                                                                To be very picky, there are still possible areas that a good CD player will deliver better sound. I can think of 2 at the moment:

                                                                                1) the loss or interferance between interconnects, and maybe inside the components. Having the player connect to Denon introduce 1 addition component and 1 additional interconnect.
                                                                                2) A good CD player should have good vibration control, and more solid build.

                                                                                Is there other advantages that a good CD player will bring? I think I can live with the above 2 items, and my untrained ears probably can't hear the differences.

                                                                                It seems I am over analyzing this stuff. :

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • stuofsci02
                                                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                                                  • Nov 2009
                                                                                  • 1241

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                                                  I think I will try both set up and see how it goes. And I may add a decent CD player later since I read a post that someone get a pretty good CD player on eBay for $50 bucks or so. (BTW, any good suggestion?)

                                                                                  Anyway, for the sake of discussion, why connecting my CD player to Denon then to Adcom is not good? I believe the most critical part that will impact the sound quality in a player is the DAC. So, by sending data to Denon through digital (where there should be no loss), we are using the better Denon DAC. This should be equivalent to having a decent Cd player with good DAC, right?

                                                                                  To be very picky, there are still possible areas that a good CD player will deliver better sound. I can think of 2 at the moment:

                                                                                  1) the loss or interferance between interconnects, and maybe inside the components. Having the player connect to Denon introduce 1 addition component and 1 additional interconnect.
                                                                                  2) A good CD player should have good vibration control, and more solid build.

                                                                                  Is there other advantages that a good CD player will bring? I think I can live with the above 2 items, and my untrained ears probably can't hear the differences.

                                                                                  It seems I am over analyzing this stuff. :
                                                                                  I think you might be over analyzing since there is only a couple of reasonable options.

                                                                                  If you are going to send via digital to your Denon, then your Denon will do the DAC. Since your Denon is already now acting as a pre-amp, there is no reason to send that via analog to the Adcom Pre-amp.. The Adcom can now only make the signal worse (not better). So you might as well run directly out of the Denon analog L/R outputs to the Rotel amp and call it a day.

                                                                                  If you run your Sony 350 analog outputs to the Denon, then you will be using the worse DAC in the Sony, but also there is a good chance that the Denon will Re-digitize the signal (ADC) to give you tone controls and bass management. It will then go back to analog using the Denon DAC, and your signal is now killed since you uses the crappy DAC in the sony to the ADC in the Denon to the DAC in the Denon... Yuck... Unless your Denon has true analog bypass this is what will happen.

                                                                                  Your next choice is to run analog out from the RCA on the Sony directly to the Adcom Pre-Amp. The Adcom pre-amp will give you Volume Control and Tone Control all in the analog domain which will mean no more ADC or DAC.. Of course you are still using the DAC in the Sony which stinks..

                                                                                  So with the equipment you have, I believe the Sony to the Denon by digital to the Rotel Amp will give you the best sound, with no Adcom Pre-Amp.

                                                                                  So the last question that remains is, can you get a source (CD-Player, Blu-Ray etc.) that has a better DAC and analog stage then the one included in your Denon for a price you can live with. Then you would go RCA direct to the Adcom. In generally, I can almost gaurantee it. Since a CD player only needs one DAC and one analog output stage they can do a much better job with it then a AVR can which requires the DAC and analog stage for each of the digital inputs..

                                                                                  I believe you could make a great improvement for less then $500 by getting a used CD play like a NAD or Rotel, or you could get a used External DAC like the DACMagic or other.

                                                                                  Cheers.

                                                                                  Stuart
                                                                                  Main System:
                                                                                  B&W 801D
                                                                                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                                  Oppo BDP-105
                                                                                  Squeezebox Touch


                                                                                  Second System:
                                                                                  B&W CM7
                                                                                  Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                                  Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Alex Tang
                                                                                    Member
                                                                                    • Feb 2008
                                                                                    • 64

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    I finally got the Adcom pre-amp, and it sounds good, even with my not-so-good Sony Blu-ray DAC. It is much better than the Denon and even the Rotel receiver. The bass is much more punchy, more detail and clarity. It just seems I can hear alot more notes. Now, I am quite satisfied. :T

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • stuofsci02
                                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                                      • Nov 2009
                                                                                      • 1241

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Alex Tang
                                                                                      I finally got the Adcom pre-amp, and it sounds good, even with my not-so-good Sony Blu-ray DAC. It is much better than the Denon and even the Rotel receiver. The bass is much more punchy, more detail and clarity. It just seems I can hear alot more notes. Now, I am quite satisfied. :T
                                                                                      Awesome.....!!!

                                                                                      Now at least you know for your next step (should you want another step) the addition of a good quality source will only make things better.
                                                                                      Main System:
                                                                                      B&W 801D
                                                                                      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                                      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                                      Oppo BDP-105
                                                                                      Squeezebox Touch


                                                                                      Second System:
                                                                                      B&W CM7
                                                                                      Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                                      Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                                      Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                                      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      Working...
                                                                                      😀
                                                                                      😂
                                                                                      🥰
                                                                                      😘
                                                                                      🤢
                                                                                      😎
                                                                                      😞
                                                                                      😡
                                                                                      👍
                                                                                      👎
                                                                                      Searching...Please wait.
                                                                                      An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                                      Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                      An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                                      Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                      An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                                      There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                                      Search Result for "|||"