B&W Centers?

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  • schwegs99
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 12

    B&W Centers?

    My current setup is a 3.1.
    B&W 804s, CMC2, Velodyne DEQ-12R, Denon 3310CI (soon an Emotiva XPA-5)

    I was just curious about what the difference between all the HTM centers are?

    HTM1, HTM4s, HTM3D, HTM2D, HTM1D

    How do each compare and what do you pair each center with as to L/Rs?

    Which one is at the best price point, bang for the buck? What I mean, if you are looking at the HTM3D, would it be better to spend the extra $ to goto the HTM2D if you have 804s or do you stick with the HTM4s? Now if you are getting the HTM4s why not go with an older model like a HTM1?

    I asking this because I have a chance to trade in my CMC2 and upgrade to the HTM3s. Do I stay with the CMC2 or upgrade to the HTM3s or goto an older model HTM1?
    B&W. 1st HT system.
  • htsteve
    Super Senior Member
    • Sep 2004
    • 1216

    #2
    schwegs99,

    First of all, welcome to the forum! :T

    The matching center channel to the 804S would be the HTM3S (which is not made anymore). The HTM1 is the previous generation of the HTM3S and is a good substitute.

    The diamond versions would definitely cost more and owuld make sense to get now (like the HTM2D) if you plan to replace the 804S with a diamond speaker. This keepts everything the same level, which is needed for system synergy.


    If you have a deal on the HTM3S, I would grab it. It is a substantially better chenter channel. Beware though, the HTM3S is a much larger cabinet. Make sure you have the space for it.



    Hope this helps.

    Comment

    • schwegs99
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2010
      • 12

      #3
      Thanks. As of right now, I dont think ill be moving to the Diamond series. I just bought my first HT system at the beginning of Feb. so everything is still brand new to me. I got a great deal on 804s, originally i was going to get the CM9s, but I got the 804s for another $700.

      As for the center channel, I stayed with the CMC2 due to size and how it sounds. Its amazing, but as always looking to hear opinions as to CMC2 vs HTM3s.

      I currently have my 804s bi-amp from the 3310CI, looking at an Emotiva XPA-5 to push alittle more power to the 804s and CMC2, which is why I ask about the HTM3s too.
      B&W. 1st HT system.

      Comment

      • schwegs99
        Junior Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 12

        #4
        ALSO,

        CMC2
        The three-way centre channel speaker features a similar driver line-up to the CM9, including two 165mm paper/Kevlar® cone bass drive units and a Nautilus™ tube-loaded aluminium dome tweeter. In order to keep cabinet height to a minimum, the speaker uses a slightly smaller 100mm Kevlar® FST midrange driver.

        FST midrange and Nautilus tweeter which match the 804s. the only thing different would be the bass drivers.

        So is the CMC2 a good match with the 804s?
        B&W. 1st HT system.

        Comment

        • emig5m
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2008
          • 646

          #5
          Well if you like the sound of the CMC2 I would just keep it and enjoy what you have. It seems like a well designed center to begin with. One of the main problems with this hobby is "over-thinking" things. I'm definitely guilty of that. And I wouldn't waste money on a diamond center with the 804S. I would assume (since I've never heard the CMC2) that the HTM3S would give you a little more of a difference in the openness and airiness of the top end with the out of the box tweeter and possibly a more sound and less boxy sounding cabinet (and of course it would visually match the 804S). Maybe a slightly bigger soundstage with the larger FST mid? I don't know, like I said, I never heard the CMC2 before. I can only comment on 600 series vs 800.

          The audible differences might not even be detectable to your ears. I've owned the current 600 series and now the 800's and I think both lineups do work well enough together (I mean, even the aluminum tweeter diaphragm between the 600 and 800 series look identical to me). I think the baseline B&W sound is there throughout all the ranges, and although there are noticeable improvements as you go up the line, IMO it's still fine to mix and match between different lineups if you need to.

          I would do one of two things if I was in your position-- Simply enjoy what you have since you seem to like the performance of the CMC2 and not over-think things. Or if you must have the matching center to your mains and spending additional money isn't a problem, just wait it out for a used HTM3S on Audiogon or Ebay. They pop up all the time and are normally well taken care of so a used one will probably be just as good as brand new. I know, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. The CMC2 probably is a real good center and probably matches better than the over-thinkers think, but it bothers you not to have the exact matching center from your front mains lineup and you'll always wonder "how much better would the matching center sound with my mains". There I go again with the over-thinking things. :rofl: I would just enjoy what you have and call it a day. :T More than likely, it matches more than it mis-matches.

          Comment

          • schwegs99
            Junior Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 12

            #6
            Great post. Yeah you know the more you read the more you over think for sure. This is better than this, that shouldnt be with these. Those comments make everyone over think.

            Even when it comes down to an external amp to run my L/R/Cs. Does the Denon put out enough to run them accurately and the way they are suppose to sound? OR do I need to step up to some like a Emotiva XPA-5 to really get what they are suppose to sound like?

            Upgrades are endless.
            B&W. 1st HT system.

            Comment

            • htsteve
              Super Senior Member
              • Sep 2004
              • 1216

              #7
              Originally posted by schwegs99
              I currently have my 804s bi-amp from the 3310CI, looking at an Emotiva XPA-5 to push alittle more power to the 804s and CMC2, which is why I ask about the HTM3s too.

              An outboard amp is a very good idea. This will give you more bang for the buck that buying an HTM3S or similar. The entire system will benefit from the added power and current. The 800 series in particular, are designed to be run from powerful external amps. Most recievers in the world cannot bring out the performance that 804S's can offer.



              Hope this helps.

              Comment

              • wettou
                Ultra Senior Member
                • May 2006
                • 3389

                #8
                Originally posted by htsteve
                An outboard amp is a very good idea. This will give you more bang for the buck that buying an HTM3S or similar. The entire system will benefit from the added power and current. The 800 series in particular, are designed to be run from powerful external amps. Most recievers in the world cannot bring out the performance that 804S's can offer.Hope this helps.
                Get as much amplification as you can
                Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

                Comment

                • schwegs99
                  Junior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 12

                  #9
                  So you thinking getting the Emotiva XPA-5 will be better overall now upgrade and then down the line upgrade the center if needed?
                  B&W. 1st HT system.

                  Comment

                  • emig5m
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 646

                    #10
                    Originally posted by schwegs99
                    Great post. Yeah you know the more you read the more you over think for sure. This is better than this, that shouldnt be with these. Those comments make everyone over think.

                    Even when it comes down to an external amp to run my L/R/Cs. Does the Denon put out enough to run them accurately and the way they are suppose to sound? OR do I need to step up to some like a Emotiva XPA-5 to really get what they are suppose to sound like?

                    Upgrades are endless.
                    Well... When I was running my 600 series (683/HTM61/685) on my Yamaha's internal power amps, the sound was still extremely good. But sometimes I like to crank the volume to dance club level and let it all hang out. Just running stereo with the 683s I would constantly drive the Yamaha into protection mode. So the AVR's internal amplification just didn't have enough steam for when I wanted to get down and boogie. Also I could tell during playing of movies at louder volumes the sound got a little strained and compressed sounding and would start to lose its clarity.

                    So I ordered the XPA-5. The baseline sound really didn't change at all. Well I could swear the 683s got a little more weight and punch behind the bass at even the lower volumes, but I didn't do a true scientific test so take my observation with a grain of salt. Of course, I could now play a little louder than before, and maintain more of that pristine clarity that you get at the lower volumes but now also at the high volumes without sounding strained/compressed. Not a huge night and day difference (like expecting the baseline sound of your system to dramatically change everywhere) but there where some noticeable improvements. I was probably just constantly clipping the AVR's amps - that's probably where the sound difference mainly is. The problem with AVRs is that normally their power amps are way over rated and they simply can't deliver in the most demanding situations (ohm drops/high current draw/high volumes) where a dedicated poweramp will keep its coherency.

                    I had a similar experience with my old school Cerwin Vegas. When I dropped down from a stereo separates Carver system to a AVR, the bass totally thinned out and the sound got more low-fi sounding. Of course, the pre-amp of the AVR vs the Carver might of had something to play in the change of sound too. But the Cerwin Vegas never sounded as good as it did with the separate power amp. They where even rated 102dB efficiency too, the speakers that is, so you would think they wouldn't take that much power to drive, but the speakers just sounded thin and life-less with the AVR compared to the Carver. But since this time around I was able to use the same pre-amp, I do swear the bass is more punchier with the amp than without.

                    Just know what to realistically expect. I knew when I ordered the XPA-5 not to expect a total dramatic change in sound, but mainly cure some performance issues with my AVR's built in amp being over-strained at the volumes I sometimes listen to. The real nice thing about having a nice separate amp is that you can always reuse it from pre-pro to pre-pro and you'll always keep that consistency of your amp and not have to worry about if the new AVR lineups skimmed on amp output from year to year, or if you run across a more power/current demanding speaker in the future, etc... I'll personally never drop back to just an AVR again, heh. I think you notice the difference more when you lose it than when you first get it and you have all these unrealistic expectations, heh.

                    Comment

                    • schwegs99
                      Junior Member
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 12

                      #11
                      Wow. thank you for the extended post. I hear what you are saying. Currently I have the 804s bi-amp since i only have a 3.1 system. I guess the way im going to go will be to upgrade to extermal amp, XPA-5.

                      what is your current setup?
                      B&W. 1st HT system.

                      Comment

                      • southpaw75
                        Junior Member
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 14

                        #12
                        schwegs99 - I would invest in an XPA-5 or some other outboard amp before spending money to upgrade your center. The CMC2 is a great center speaker in its own right.

                        Comment

                        • schwegs99
                          Junior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 12

                          #13
                          thanks southpaw75. it is a great center. but just trying to get some ideas. here is the order i think on what ill be getting.

                          Emotiva XPA-5
                          (2) B&W SCM-S or comparable surrounds
                          2nd Velodyne DEQ-12R
                          B&W. 1st HT system.

                          Comment

                          • James NM
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 3

                            #14
                            As htsteve said, the 3S is no longer made, is the match (sonics and aesthetics) to your 804s, and is a pretty big step up from the C2.

                            OTOH, if you're happy with the C2, then maybe the $$ would be better spent elsewhere. Have you listened to the 3S?

                            Comment

                            • schwegs99
                              Junior Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 12

                              #15
                              No I haven't. I think maybe the $$ difference between the C2 and 3s ill put it into an external amp to run all 3 better since I'm running everything just on the Denon.
                              B&W. 1st HT system.

                              Comment

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