B&W 804S upgrade from Denon 3805 to Classe 2100 Integrated

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  • SPACEMANRICK
    Senior Member
    • May 2005
    • 200

    B&W 804S upgrade from Denon 3805 to Classe 2100 Integrated

    I am considering (maybe dreaming) upgrading my B&W 804S 2 channel system by upgrading my Denon 3805 AV Receiver to a used Classe 2100 Integrated amp. I currently also have a Denon DCM 380 CD player with my 2 channel system and a B&W ASW CM subwoofer.

    Without having the luxury of trying the Classe 2100 Integrated at my house in my room, is there any feedback on what and how much difference I can expect in the sound quality in my room. I know room treatments have been mentioned before but the wife has nixed that option for now.

    Thanks for any help!
    Attached Files
  • altanpsx
    Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 63

    #2
    I am driving my 803s with classe cap-2100. I am very satified about the result. I am sure 804s will shine with cap-2100. Considering that 803s are 250 watt, and 804s 200 watt, without a question cap-2100 would feed better 804s then 803s.

    For cap-2100, I can say, it so smooth, it plays like a tube amp. But the bass extensions are very good and accurate, very big sound stage, 3d images, airy effects vs.vs.

    Comment

    • ak77
      Member
      • Jun 2008
      • 30

      #3
      Hi Spacemanrick

      I have Classe SAP-2100 amp powering 803S speakers. I am very happy with the results. Before buying CAP2100 I was using my Pioneer AX10Ai-s amp (bi-amped) to power these speakers. This amp was pioneer's flagship amp untill they brought out the LX91...so it was very well regarded amp with 170 wpc. It sounded very good and clear to me untill I bought CAP2100. The major area of improvement was the bottom end which now seemed extended and fuller. There was not much difference I could observe on the high end. I guess I heard more difference by changing my Cyrus cable to Chord Anthem 2 cable than changing the amps.

      With your room size and speaker placement, I am confident that you too will observe considerable difference in sound. Although it only has 100wpc at 8 ohm but every bit of it will get the best out of your 804s.

      Highly recommended.

      Cheers
      Andy
      System 1: B&W: 803S; Classe CAP-2100, CDP-102, Chord: Anthem 2 interconnect, Epic super twin cables

      System 2: B&W: 685, Rotel: RA-05; Denon 3910; Denon DAB 1800 tuner; Merlin Choppin & Atlas Equator MKII interconnects.

      Comment

      • Briz vegas
        Super Senior Member
        • Mar 2005
        • 1199

        #4
        Ok, I would look at the following first
        - power - get a dedicated line first if you don't already, try something like the one in my profile. Its cheap and will get more out of your current amp and electronics

        - vibration control - your source particularly will sound better with more detail and clarity

        That should buy you time to enjoy the improved sound and save for you classe
        Personally I preferred my CJ to classe 400w monos on the 804 - don't assume that the classe is the only choice with B&W (although you may like the look or functionality of the Classe).



        PS= I am tempted to start a thread investigating how people sit when they listen to their music. The naim forum had one about the listening chair and socks on listeners feet. Seeing the photo above makes me think this is a very common listening body position with the "hmmmm" hand to the face.
        Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
        Siamese :evil: :twisted:

        Comment

        • emig5m
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2008
          • 646

          #5
          Originally posted by ak77
          I have Classe SAP-2100 amp powering 803S speakers. I am very happy with the results. Before buying CAP2100 I was using my Pioneer AX10Ai-s amp (bi-amped) to power these speakers. This amp was pioneer's flagship amp untill they brought out the LX91...so it was very well regarded amp with 170 wpc. It sounded very good and clear to me untill I bought CAP2100. The major area of improvement was the bottom end which now seemed extended and fuller. There was not much difference I could observe on the high end. I guess I heard more difference by changing my Cyrus cable to Chord Anthem 2 cable than changing the amps.
          This is pretty much exactly what I observed when I went from running my 683s on a Yamaha receiver to using the Emotiva XPA-5. The bass got some more weight and authority behind it. And it seemed to be at all volumes too. I also heard a similar thing when I went from a Sony receiver to the Yamaha (but the Yamaha overall was a pretty good jump in fidelity everywhere - even the high end was very noticeable). I wonder if they make these speakers harder to drive on purpose just to keep the fun factor up for the hobbyist and to keep sales of poweramps up? :lol: :E I doubt it... Even my Cerwin Vegas that where super efficient at 102dB 1w/1m sounded like ass when I went from running a Carver TFM-35x to a Sony receiver the bass just seem to disappear and thin out. Some speakers just have ohm drops that don't require watts so much, but a good strong current flow. Hell, going back even many years earlier on my Optimus Mach II's I could tell the same difference between a Onkyo stereo receiver and my vintage Harman Kardon Citation 12 power amp. The Harman Kardon was even rated less watts than the Onkyo at around 60/65 watts if I remember correctly vs the Onkyo's so-called 100 watts but boy would that Harmon Kardon play much louder and cleaner with more bass!! I'm beginning to think current is much more important than watts. I guess it's all marketing like how they market CPUs by Mhz but in reality two chips running at the same Mhz one can still do twice the computing because of performance aspects in other areas. Think Core2 vs a Pentium IV....

          Comment

          • bigburner
            Super Senior Member
            • May 2005
            • 2649

            #6
            Originally posted by Briz vegas
            Ok, I would look at the following first
            - power - get a dedicated line first if you don't already, try something like the one in my profile. Its cheap and will get more out of your current amp and electronics

            - vibration control - your source particularly will sound better with more detail and clarity

            That should buy you time to enjoy the improved sound and save for you classe
            Personally I preferred my CJ to classe 400w monos on the 804 - don't assume that the classe is the only choice with B&W (although you may like the look or functionality of the Classe).



            PS= I am tempted to start a thread investigating how people sit when they listen to their music. The naim forum had one about the listening chair and socks on listeners feet. Seeing the photo above makes me think this is a very common listening body position with the "hmmmm" hand to the face.
            Briz, I'm surprised that your first piece of advice wasn't to throw a big blanket over that cat!

            Nigel.

            Comment

            • SoundEngine355
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2008
              • 313

              #7
              Changing from the Denon to any good quality 2 channel pre/amp (integrated or seperate) will have a huge impact on the sound quality for music.

              Musical Fidelity, Classe, Marantz, Mcintosh all good quality brands....

              Classe CAP-2100 is a great unit, I've had one powering a pair of B&W 803D's before, did a great job.
              SoundEngine355

              -------------------
              [Music] B&W 800D | Classe CDP202 +M400s | Velodyne DD15

              Comment

              • Briz vegas
                Super Senior Member
                • Mar 2005
                • 1199

                #8
                Originally posted by bigburner
                Briz, I'm surprised that your first piece of advice wasn't to throw a big blanket over that cat!

                Nigel.
                :T :lol: Big Burner maaaaate! Everyone knows the damping provided by cats, dogs and fluffy bunnys is better than the modest improvements one can extract from a blanket, particularly a reclining fluffy cat. If it had been a turtle, now that would have been a different matter. They play havoc with the mids and highs.

                I don't suggest blanket solutions when more targeted advice seems appropriate. I don't have a vested interest in that one solution to room reflections.





                Brizez Bedding Discount Madness SALE NOW ON
                10 to 15% off Blankets and quilt covers
                ALL STOCK MUST BE SOLD
                Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
                Siamese :evil: :twisted:

                Comment

                • SPACEMANRICK
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2005
                  • 200

                  #9
                  Thanks for all the input everyone. I have been off sick with the stomach flu for a few days and in the meantime the Classe amp was sold to someone else. It was a great price also...they were only asking $2000 Canadian and it was only 1 year old and it was in Vancouver. I guess I will have to keep on looking....

                  Off topic, but that picture is a few years old and in the meantime our beloved cat passed away 2 months ago. He was always one to enjoy the music with us even when it was blasting at full volume

                  Comment

                  • Briz vegas
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 1199

                    #10
                    Sorry to hear about the moggie. Stereo listening sessions in my house always start with 10 or 15 minutes playing fetch with the pastry brush and the feline retriever before I am allowed to settle down to serious listening.

                    Bummer about the classe bargain also. You have to be quick with these things. In Australia 2 grand would be about 20% of the new price. Bargain.
                    Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
                    Siamese :evil: :twisted:

                    Comment

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