Dialogue Issues With New Htm2d Center-

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  • arube1
    Member
    • Dec 2009
    • 46

    Dialogue Issues With New Htm2d Center-

    recently shelled out big bucks for an htm2d center along with 803d's and to be honest really not impressed with the dialogue at all....running them with marantz av and mm 8003's -- i have a pioneer blu ray bdp-o9fd and thought i would hear crystal clear dialogue with this stuff.... it has been a huge disappointment as the sound from the center is boomy and thick with often muddy dialogue .... the dealer who had assured me that the sound would be incredible and crystal clear is now blaming the acoustics in the room... although it is in my living room it is in an open floor area ( with the kitchen and dining room ) living room is about 18 x 15 with cathedral ceilings.... and the adjacent dining room is about 10 x 12 or so.... the center is on a cabinet that is esentially 3 boxes ( one housing the blue ray) that the dealer said is contributing to the boominess.... we tried putting foam in the speakers and tilted the center up a little to get the front off the box and we still have muddy dialogue.... any thoughts? thanks....
    Last edited by arube1; 06 February 2010, 09:33 Saturday. Reason: correct spelling and grammar
  • sg2
    Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 56

    #2
    Hi,

    The HTM2D delivers crystal clear dialogues here for sure. I've been using several other center channel speakers before, or even shadow center configurations, and the only speaker which ever satisfied me (and my family) for effortless dialogue intelligibility is the HTM2D.

    I would suggest that you check :
    - that the speaker is not "boxed", ie recessed in a deep furniture arrangement,
    - that the speaker is more or less at ear level, and in all cases tilted for direct ear target,
    - that you put the two foam plugs in the rear ports
    - that you make sure that the center is configured as "large" in your HT processor (in order for the low end of the dialogues NOT to be routed to the LFE)

    Can you maybe post a pic or two of the setup ?
    Regards,
    --
    Stéphane

    Comment

    • ninja12
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2007
      • 181

      #3
      I'm surprised to hear that you are having problems with the dialogue not being clear from your HTM2D. I use to own one, and the dialogue was very clear. Have you done a calibration using the test tones from your receiver? If not, I would do that first. Next, if the dialogue is still boomy and muddy, I would plug the rear ports and do another calibration. If you have it boxed in into a cabinet, I would suggest that you remove it. If you can raise it higher so that it's near the same height as your mains, that will help too. The biggest help will be acoustic treats.

      Comment

      • arube1
        Member
        • Dec 2009
        • 46

        #4
        Thanks for the input.... the speaker is not boxed as it is sitting on a cabinet and is open all around....it is at ear level and the 2 foam plugs are in-- now i am pretty sure the guys setting it up configured the center at "small" - so i will definitely check that out... i will try to put up a picture....thanks very much


        The HTM2D delivers crystal clear dialogues here for sure. I've been using several other center channel speakers before, or even shadow center configurations, and the only speaker which ever satisfied me (and my family) for effortless dialogue intelligibility is the HTM2D.

        I would suggest that you check :
        - that the speaker is not "boxed", ie recessed in a deep furniture arrangement,
        - that the speaker is more or less at ear level, and in all cases tilted for direct ear target,
        - that you put the two foam plugs in the rear ports
        - that you make sure that the center is configured as "large" in your HT processor (in order for the low end of the dialogues NOT to be routed to the LFE)

        Can you maybe post a pic or two of the setup ?[/QUOTE]

        Comment

        • arube1
          Member
          • Dec 2009
          • 46

          #5
          Originally posted by ninja12
          I'm surprised to hear that you are having problems with the dialogue not being clear from your HTM2D. I use to own one, and the dialogue was very clear. Have you done a calibration using the test tones from your receiver? If not, I would do that first. Next, if the dialogue is still boomy and muddy, I would plug the rear ports and do another calibration. If you have it boxed in into a cabinet, I would suggest that you remove it. If you can raise it higher so that it's near the same height as your mains, that will help too. The biggest help will be acoustic treats.

          thanks-- the foam is in the speakers but i am not sure the calibration was done after we put the foam in....

          Comment

          • arube1
            Member
            • Dec 2009
            • 46

            #6
            should the crossover be at 60 or 80hz? thanks...

            Comment

            • ninja12
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 181

              #7
              I would suggest you do another calibration since you added the foam. Also, make sure all of the speakers are set to small. Crossing over the HTM2D at 60hz would be fine. If you can cross over the other speakers at 60hz, that will be good too. If not, try 80hz. Is the connection to the HTM2D connected to the top and bottom connections? If not, is the jumper bar connected? If you do not have a connection to the top and bottom of the HTM2D, then you have to have the jumper connected.

              Comment

              • William
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2006
                • 194

                #8
                While I had a HTM2D and was never happy with the timbre match with my 802's I never noticed a problem understanding or boomy dialogue. My main problem was when panning from the HTM2D to the 802D's it would change tonal character. Being boomy in character sounds like some type of resonance (room) issue. Are you sitting in a Mode? try moving forward or backward a couple of feet and see if this make a difference. The cathedral could be partially to blame. Here is a calculator that may help.

                Comment

                • Tony1
                  Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 32

                  #9
                  I placed my HTM2D on a Great Gramma. Really tightened the bass and made dialogue more focused. It sits on top of my system rack and prevents vibrations going to the rack. Here is a link:

                  Comment

                  • arube1
                    Member
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 46

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tony1
                    I placed my HTM2D on a Great Gramma. Really tightened the bass and made dialogue more focused. It sits on top of my system rack and prevents vibrations going to the rack. Here is a link:

                    http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-GREAT-...5563053&sr=8-1
                    thanks.... i will try that as well... how does that look under the speaker by the way?

                    Comment

                    • arube1
                      Member
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 46

                      #11
                      pics of my boomy sounding set up

                      /Users/arthurrubenstein/Desktop/photo.jpg/Users/arthurrubenstein/Desktop/photo.jpg

                      Comment

                      • arube1
                        Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 46

                        #12
                        sorry - didn't work...- not sure how to post the pics on here..

                        Comment

                        • Tony1
                          Member
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 32

                          #13
                          Image
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • BlazeMaster
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2004
                            • 644

                            #14
                            To the OP, did you get a chance to listen to them at the dealer's room before purchasing them? I heard them briefly when I was demoing a projector the other day with a BluRay. The entire room was easily 30K worth of electronics, and I wasn't too impressed with the center channel either.

                            Comment

                            • ZX10 Guy
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 198

                              #15
                              arube1,

                              Post up pics of the rest of your room.

                              With regards to how much money a particular system has when used with this center doesn't have as much as an impact as the room acoustics. I didn't know how dramatic the acoustics of the room came into play until I finally addressed them in my dedicated room. I have the predecessor N HTM1. Before treating the room, I also had issues with incoherent vocals/dialogue from the HTM1. To compensate, I had to bump the center level by +2 compared to the L/R Mains. After treating the room, everything calibrated uniformly across the front three channels. Vocals and dialogue are now crystal clear.

                              William,

                              I agree with you about the B&W Nautilus center channels. If I had to do it again, I would have picked up another N804 for my center even though the HTM1 is an extremely close match of the N804 speakers. Despite the same driver compliment, I can also detect slight tonal differences between it and the N804 towers.

                              Comment

                              • emig5m
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 646

                                #16
                                Something is wrong. I only have a HTM3S and it's extremely clear with probably the most modest equipment running 800 series on here (and possibly the entire planet, lol!) I wonder if his processor has auto room calibration that shows the results after it runs to maybe give a hint of the problem frequencies? Like someone else mentioned about the room modes. I know it sucks that you just can't buy the best equipment and you automatically have the best sound. There's a little method to the madness with setup and room acoustics that play a bigger role than just having great equipment. When I heard a diamond series system running the big boy equipment (Classe) that didn't sound as good and clear as my 600 series running low end equipment it was a real eye opener that buying the best and most expensive stuff doesn't guarantee the best end result if some time isn't put into setting it up, or if the rooms acoustics are just plain bad.

                                For example, I moved my system around onto another wall and it sounded like crap when it sounded great before. I wound up with a bare wall behind the listening position with the new config and I don't know scientifically what was going wrong if is was just your ears getting confused with the timing of the sounds bouncing off the bare wall or a canceling effect of the reflected sound vs the direct sound from the speakers. But the same room same system went from great sounding to muddy and unenjoyable in a heart beat. Thankfully the fix was easy as hanging a decorative carpet on the bare wall. I really want to order some OC703 to make some real acoustic panels and take down the stupid carpet and get some OC705 for making and experimenting with corner basstraps, heh.

                                In the meantime I would double check that the jumpers are installed correctly if you're single wiring and also that the +/- are plugged in correctly (and also at the equipment end). For single non bi-wire they recommend using the mid/tweeter posts as the connection point (I don't think this makes a real difference, but I just do it by the book just in case).

                                About posting pictures here, best to create an account on photobucket and upload your picture there and then copy and paste the direct link here in the [img] [/img] tag.

                                Comment

                                • arube1
                                  Member
                                  • Dec 2009
                                  • 46

                                  #17
                                  incidentally- i should have mentioned that the dialogue issues occur watching blu ray and that tv sound is fine...especially talk shows, news etc.... there is a bare wall behind the listening area..... the center is bumped up to +5 by the way.... the speakers are bi-wired...still trying to post some pics....thanks for all the responses... and i didnt really spend too much time listening to the speakers before i bought them which i think now was plain dumb...

                                  Comment

                                  • ninja12
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Mar 2007
                                    • 181

                                    #18
                                    arube1,

                                    Something is wrong with your setup. Like I said before, I use to own a HTM2D, and I didn't have any problems with dialogue at all. As a matter fact, before I purchased the HTM2D, I owned a HTM3S, and the dialogue from that was crystal clear. Like I said in an earlier post, your biggest help is going to be treating your room with acoustic panels. I can't tell you how much that helped my room. After adding the acoustic panels, my room sounds absolutely fantastic. Now, I am actually hearing my system instead of hearing my system. Could you give us more details on the type of equipment you have such as processor/receiver, speakers, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1 set up, and how everything is connected.

                                    Comment

                                    • arube1
                                      Member
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 46

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by ninja12
                                      arube1,

                                      Something is wrong with your setup. Like I said before, I use to own a HTM2D, and I didn't have any problems with dialogue at all. As a matter fact, before I purchased the HTM2D, I owned a HTM3S, and the dialogue from that was crystal clear. Like I said in an earlier post, your biggest help is going to be treating your room with acoustic panels. I can't tell you how much that helped my room. After adding the acoustic panels, my room sounds absolutely fantastic. Now, I am actually hearing my system instead of hearing my system. Could you give us more details on the type of equipment you have such as processor/receiver, speakers, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1 set up, and how everything is connected.




                                      it is 5.1 and i have a marantz av and mm 8003's .... pioneer blu ray bdp-09fp... bi- wired- have the crossover set at 60 now....

                                      Comment

                                      • ray5
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 444

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by arube1
                                        incidentally- i should have mentioned that the dialogue issues occur watching blu ray and that tv sound is fine...especially talk shows, news etc.... there is a bare wall behind the listening area..... the center is bumped up to +5 by the way.... the speakers are bi-wired...still trying to post some pics....thanks for all the responses... and i didnt really spend too much time listening to the speakers before i bought them which i think now was plain dumb...
                                        This is exactly the problem I am having. Only with Blu-rays and not TV. Am living with it for the last several months and have not been able to figure it out yet.
                                        Ray

                                        Comment

                                        • Ken49r
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Dec 2007
                                          • 312

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by arube1
                                          incidentally- i should have mentioned that the dialogue issues occur watching blu ray and that tv sound is fine...especially talk shows, news etc.... there is a bare wall behind the listening area..... the center is bumped up to +5 by the way....
                                          That is interesting you say TV is better than Blu-ray. Mine is the opposite. Streaming through the cable box some TV channels are louder, clearer, than others that seem muffled, as if a blanket was thrown over the speaker. On Blu-ray everything is crystal clear.

                                          One possibility could be the LFE settings in the player and the pre-amp, both are putting out LFE signals.
                                          I would also suggest getting a test signal disc, SPL meter, and calibrate your speakers from the source. It is better to have the center away from the back wall by a foot or two but since you say it sounds fine with TV that is not the cause of your problem.

                                          Comment

                                          • Relentless
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jul 2007
                                            • 317

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by arube1
                                            incidentally- i should have mentioned that the dialogue issues occur watching blu ray and that tv sound is fine...especially talk shows, news etc.... there is a bare wall behind the listening area..... the center is bumped up to +5 by the way.... the speakers are bi-wired...still trying to post some pics....thanks for all the responses... and i didnt really spend too much time listening to the speakers before i bought them which i think now was plain dumb...
                                            You say it only happens with bluray? BD should give you the best sound of any source. Are you using the analog outputs for you BD player. I am not sure but if you use the analog outputs than I think you have to calibrate your BD players speaker distance and volume settings separate and it just bypasses your processors settings.
                                            I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive safely at death...
                                            Lou

                                            Comment

                                            • WelshOne
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2009
                                              • 117

                                              #23
                                              To the OP, have you set the BD player to Bitstream or LPCM?

                                              Also, have you ensured that there are no default settings automatically coming via BD player or processor when watching a BD, for example Dynamic EQ and/or Dolby Max/Mid/Min can sometimes automatically switch on with some/all BD's/players?

                                              Is your centre channel set to ON and SMALL in the processor?

                                              A description of your kit and how its wired and configured would be useful.

                                              My room is not great re acoustics, and my HTM2D works very well. Its running via the processor at +7, vs +4 for the 803D's.

                                              Are you familiar with the online software tool REW (room equalisation wizard)?

                                              Comment

                                              • Joawen
                                                Member
                                                • Mar 2006
                                                • 49

                                                #24
                                                Just to check the speaker itself i suggest switching the cables to the front left speaker and the center to see if the sound follows the cabling when using Blue Ray...

                                                Comment

                                                • Antus
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Apr 2008
                                                  • 141

                                                  #25
                                                  my guess it the pre/amp setup problem.

                                                  are u using the HDMI from blueray and Marantz do the processing? or analog out from blue ray and Marantz do the volumn only?

                                                  u should set all speaker to "Large" and sub level to "Normal" defeat all bass management and tone control. see if the muddyness still exist.

                                                  If you are using 5.1. u can either bridge or biamp the front three channel.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • arube1
                                                    Member
                                                    • Dec 2009
                                                    • 46

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by WelshOne
                                                    To the OP, have you set the BD player to Bitstream or LPCM?

                                                    Also, have you ensured that there are no default settings automatically coming via BD player or processor when watching a BD, for example Dynamic EQ and/or Dolby Max/Mid/Min can sometimes automatically switch on with some/all BD's/players?

                                                    Is your centre channel set to ON and SMALL in the processor?

                                                    A description of your kit and how its wired and configured would be useful.

                                                    My room is not great re acoustics, and my HTM2D works very well. Its running via the processor at +7, vs +4 for the 803D's.

                                                    Are you familiar with the online software tool REW (room equalisation wizard)?

                                                    thanks.... i am not sure i have that choice on the pioneer BD as far as bit stream or lpcm....the only choices i found was stereo or 2 channel...at least i couldn't find it....perhaps the way it is setup the settings on the Bd are bypassed ? ... the centre is set to small....thanks

                                                    Comment

                                                    • arube1
                                                      Member
                                                      • Dec 2009
                                                      • 46

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Antus
                                                      my guess it the pre/amp setup problem.

                                                      are u using the HDMI from blueray and Marantz do the processing? or analog out from blue ray and Marantz do the volumn only?

                                                      u should set all speaker to "Large" and sub level to "Normal" defeat all bass management and tone control. see if the muddyness still exist.

                                                      If you are using 5.1. u can either bridge or biamp the front three channel.
                                                      thanks... we have the hdmi from the blue ray... and the marantz is doing the processing....

                                                      Comment

                                                      • WelshOne
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2009
                                                        • 117

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by arube1
                                                        thanks.... i am not sure i have that choice on the pioneer BD as far as bit stream or lpcm....the only choices i found was stereo or 2 channel...at least i couldn't find it....perhaps the way it is setup the settings on the Bd are bypassed ? ... the centre is set to small....thanks
                                                        IF you have a pioneer BD player, it'll definitely have that option.

                                                        Switch the player on, with no disc inserted. You should then press the menu/set up etc button on your BD Pioneer remote. You are looking for a tab which gives you this option.

                                                        It may not necessarily say Bitstream or LPCM, so you'll need to refer to your manual. Basically Bitstream means that the player is sending the BD data raw to the processor, for the processor to deal with. LPCM/PCM means that the player is now decoding the data, and sending it to the processor just to amplify it to the speakers.....in laymans terms so to speak

                                                        So, whichever these settings are set to, you will need to ensure that the processor is doing what is should, i.e. sending centre channel information to the centre channel, everything is in 5.1, etc etc.

                                                        If you say TV/cable etc is fine, im strongly guessing that youve got a set up problem wit the pioneer-Marantz processor?

                                                        So:

                                                        Check BD player settings-refer to manual
                                                        Check Marantz settings, i.e. all speakers are set to ON and SMALL, the BD input is set to HDMI, not analogue, etc etc.

                                                        When a film is playing, what does it say on your processor display, i.e. does it say Dolby Digital/PCM/Dolby PLII/DTS MASTER HD/DOLBY TRUE HD???

                                                        Comment

                                                        • arube1
                                                          Member
                                                          • Dec 2009
                                                          • 46

                                                          #29
                                                          [QUOTE=WelshOne]IF you have a pioneer BD player, it'll definitely have that option.

                                                          Switch the player on, with no disc inserted. You should then press the menu/set up etc button on your BD Pioneer remote. You are looking for a tab which gives you this option.

                                                          It may not necessarily say Bitstream or LPCM, so you'll need to refer to your manual. Basically Bitstream means that the player is sending the BD data raw to the processor, for the processor to deal with. LPCM/PCM means that the player is now decoding the data, and sending it to the processor just to amplify it to the speakers.....in laymans terms so to speak

                                                          So, whichever these settings are set to, you will need to ensure that the processor is doing what is should, i.e. sending centre channel information to the centre channel, everything is in 5.1, etc etc.

                                                          If you say TV/cable etc is fine, im strongly guessing that youve got a set up problem wit the pioneer-Marantz processor?

                                                          So:

                                                          Check BD player settings-refer to manual
                                                          Check Marantz settings, i.e. all speakers are set to ON and SMALL, the BD input is set to HDMI, not analogue, etc etc.

                                                          When a film is playing, what does it say on your processor display, i.e. does it say Dolby Digital/PCM/Dolby PLII/DTS MASTER HD/DOLBY TRUE HD???


                                                          thanks.....i think it has an option of pcm or auto and it is on auto...the surround is set on auto as well.... when a film is playing it says dolby digital and also auto surround... the bd is set to hdmi..... the dealer who sold me the stuff is coming back on saturday to try to figure it out....

                                                          Comment

                                                          • htsteve
                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                            • Sep 2004
                                                            • 1216

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by arube1
                                                            the dealer who sold me the stuff is coming back on saturday to try to figure it out....

                                                            Good. I'm glad to see you are getting support from your dealer.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • arube1
                                                              Member
                                                              • Dec 2009
                                                              • 46

                                                              #31
                                                              just an update on my ongoing saga with the dialogue issues on the htm2d-- it turns out that the dialogue is muddy not only on blue ray but also on tv movies... i had not noticed that since most of my tv viewing had been news and sports which was fine...but now that i have tried to watch a few movies on tv i have noticed the same issues...

                                                              Comment

                                                              • audioqueso
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Nov 2004
                                                                • 1930

                                                                #32
                                                                It may seem too simple and stupid, but press AUTO on the AV8003.
                                                                On the Marantz AV8003, press DISPLAY and scroll to see if it's on 7.1 MULTI-CHANNEL. If you use any of the other DSP's (DD, DTS, DPL, etc), the Marantz will may still try to apply those. If the source is DolbyHD, DTS-MA, etc, the AV8003 should be on MULTI-CHANNEL (or just press AUTO).
                                                                B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                                                                Comment

                                                                • arube1
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Dec 2009
                                                                  • 46

                                                                  #33
                                                                  the center speaker is now sitting on 3 "vanishing points" which the dealer gave me for de-coupling the center speaker from the cabinet it is sitting on and re-calibrated the processor.... the result is not any better and might be worse....

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • emig5m
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Aug 2008
                                                                    • 646

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Sounds like you're just going to have to use some manual EQ adjustments to filter out your "boomy and thick with often muddy dialogue". The problem with manual EQ is sometimes you can do more harm than good. But I would start with cutting 160Hz to 500Hz .5dB ~ 1.0dB and then turning the treble tone control up one click and see if it sounds clearer. A test tone/sine wave sweep is godsend for me....I was able to figure out a null I had at 50Hz (phasing issue with the sub interfering with the mains) that would otherwise be impossible for me to do with just listening to music.

                                                                    Another thing I would do if I where you is go to Best Buy and pickup a nice midrange receiver like say, a Yamaha 765 just to see if it's actually your processor at fault. You can always bring it back for a full refund within 30 days. The nice thing about Yamahas is that almost all of them have pre amp outputs for using your own dedicated power amp. Hell, you spent this much, what's another $600 on a processor that you can bring back for a full refund.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Tony1
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Sep 2007
                                                                      • 32

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Try the Auralex Great Gramma I mentioned earlier in the post. You can get it at Amazon, Guitar Center or Sam Ash and you can return them if you are not satisfied within 30 days. It really took care of the boomy bass that I was experiencing and made the dialogue sound more focused.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • kmcheng
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Jan 2008
                                                                        • 253

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Just a quick question: Did you try running a phantom center and see if the muddy conversations go away?

                                                                        You can set up either the player or the Marantz to distribute the center channel data to the FL and FR channels instead.

                                                                        If the muddy conversation is gone then you can really isolate the problem to the center channel. If the muddy conversation is still there, then maybe the problem is really with the room. I have 803D as FL and FR and no center channel and the conversations are crystal clear.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Joawen
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Mar 2006
                                                                          • 49

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Joawen
                                                                          Just to check the speaker itself i suggest switching the cables to the front left speaker and the center to see if the sound follows the cabling when using Blue Ray...
                                                                          Did the other speaker sound muffled too?

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • mintchris
                                                                            Junior Member
                                                                            • Jun 2009
                                                                            • 14

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by Tony1
                                                                            Try the Auralex Great Gramma I mentioned earlier in the post. You can get it at Amazon, Guitar Center or Sam Ash and you can return them if you are not satisfied within 30 days. It really took care of the boomy bass that I was experiencing and made the dialogue sound more focused.
                                                                            Is there a difference between the Gramma and Great Gramma? I would like to get one for my HTM4S but want to know if I should shell out for the more expensive one.
                                                                            Thanks!
                                                                            Also will it make a big difference in sound if I am using it on a wood/metal tv stand?

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Tony1
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Sep 2007
                                                                              • 32

                                                                              #39
                                                                              They are both the same except the great gramma is just bigger. I use the great gramma for my HTM2d which onlyl sticks out a couple of inches from each side. I tried the regular gramma but it didn't sound good as the htm2d was to big and didn't tame the bass the great gramma does. See if the dimensions for the htm4s is less than the smaller gramma, if it is then that is all you need. Don't think it makes a difference on what surface you put the gramma on as it decouples it from the surface it's on anyway.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • arube1
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Dec 2009
                                                                                • 46

                                                                                #40
                                                                                is anyone familiar with the vanishing points which i have the speaker sitting on now?it is 3 points/supports basically which is supposed to de-couple the speaker from the cabinet? i would like to try the gamma thing but think it might sort of stand out and raise the center a bit too much as the tv is only a few inches above the speaker...
                                                                                Last edited by arube1; 18 February 2010, 08:31 Thursday.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • AV-OCD
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Aug 2008
                                                                                  • 568

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by arube1
                                                                                  is anyone familiar with the vanishing points which i have the speaker sitting on now?it is 3 points/supports basically which is supposed to de-couple the speaker from the cabinet? i would like to try the gamma thing but think it might sort of stand out and raise the center a bit too much as the tv is only a few inches above the speaker...
                                                                                  I can't tell for sure from the pic you posted, but it looks like your TV cabinet that the center speaker is sitting on is right up against the wall.

                                                                                  Try this. Unplug the sub, set the center speaker to "small" with a crossover of 80Hz, turn-off the EQ, and move the cabinet and speaker on top, out into the room 2-3 feet (even if you can't keep it there).

                                                                                  Or, plug the speaker cables into the top two binding posts only (removing the jumpers to the bottom two).

                                                                                  The HTM2D is essentially a small tower speaker on its side, and running it full range right up next to the wall is sure to make the sound thick / boomy / chesty.

                                                                                  If doing the steps above fix the problem, put everything back to the way it was and re-run the auto set-up, making sure to keep all of the microphone measurement positions within 1 foot of the main listening seat. If set-up properly, the Audyssey auto EQ in the Marantz will adjust the sound of the center speaker so that it sounds balanced.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • emig5m
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Aug 2008
                                                                                    • 646

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by AV-OCD
                                                                                    I can't tell for sure from the pic you posted, but it looks like your TV cabinet that the center speaker is sitting on is right up against the wall.

                                                                                    Try this. Unplug the sub, set the center speaker to "small" with a crossover of 80Hz, turn-off the EQ, and move the cabinet and speaker on top, out into the room 2-3 feet (even if you can't keep it there).

                                                                                    Or, plug the speaker cables into the top two binding posts only (removing the jumpers to the bottom two).

                                                                                    The HTM2D is essentially a small tower speaker on its side, and running it full range right up next to the wall is sure to make the sound thick / boomy / chesty.

                                                                                    If doing the steps above fix the problem, put everything back to the way it was and re-run the auto set-up, making sure to keep all of the microphone measurement positions within 1 foot of the main listening seat. If set-up properly, the Audyssey auto EQ in the Marantz will adjust the sound of the center speaker so that it sounds balanced.
                                                                                    I would even try moving the crossover up higher to say 100Hz and setting all speakers to the same crossover (small/100Hz)... Really helped bring much more clarity to my system in surround sound/multichannel while even making the bass stronger. But I wasn't really unhappy before, mine was more about putting in that final touch. To me it sounds like his sound might of even been from the bass setting being set to 'both' sub and speakers. I tried the "both" setting for bass and it REALLY made the dialog muddy and unclear for me since the sub and speaker both where being fed the same exact bass info.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • AV-OCD
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                                                      • 568

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by emig5m
                                                                                      I would even try moving the crossover up higher to say 100Hz and setting all speakers to the same crossover (small/100Hz)... Really helped bring much more clarity to my system in surround sound/multichannel while even making the bass stronger. But I wasn't really unhappy before, mine was more about putting in that final touch. To me it sounds like his sound might of even been from the bass setting being set to 'both' sub and speakers. I tried the "both" setting for bass and it REALLY made the dialog muddy and unclear for me since the sub and speaker both where being fed the same exact bass info.
                                                                                      Good suggestion as well, especially the part about checking to make sure that he isn't running a config that has the center and the sub both producing the bass. Which is a silly option offered on many prepros / AVRs these days.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • arube1
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • Dec 2009
                                                                                        • 46

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        thanks for the suggestions-- i do not have a sub and asked the dealer if getting a sub would help direct the bass away from the center ? still waiting for his response- he said he had to meditate on that.... also the cabinet the speaker is sitting on is directly against the wall and the center is maybe a few inches at most from the back wall...unfortunately the cabinet is fixed to the wall and can't be moved...the dealer told me to fill the cabinets the speaker is sitting on with foam to help reduce the boom in the voices...will try the cross over at 80 or 100 -- ...the equalizer is off i believe... thanks very much all..

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • arube1
                                                                                          Member
                                                                                          • Dec 2009
                                                                                          • 46

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          all my speakers are bi-wired by the way...no plugs just wires going to the posts...

                                                                                          Comment

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