B&W 803s with Rotel RB-1582

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  • mb225
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 131

    B&W 803s with Rotel RB-1582

    Hi all!

    I'm kind of new to the boards and I need some help with my new system. I have been saving up for some high-end audio for about 5-years now and what a time to enter the game! I just bought a pair of B&W 803s with a Rotel RB-1582 (200w/c) and RC-1550. First let me just say, Wow! These speakers are absolutely amazing! Since B&W discontinued the current 800 series I was able to get a pair of dealer demos with a 35% discount! I was originally looking at the 804s but 803s just seem to bring things to the next level! I can't really understand how changing a 6.5" driver to a 7" driver can make that much of a difference, but it does!

    When I listened to the 803s' in the store they were hooked up to an RC-1550 and the RB-1552(120w/c) and I was blown away! I had to buy them, but the salesman said I should upgrade to the next level amp (RB-1582 @ 200w/c) to get better bass performance and it was an overall better match for the 803s. They didn't have the bigger amp in the store for demo so I would just have to buy-n-try. After getting them home I'm still blown away, but I feel like my setup is a lot brighter than what I heard in the store. Sometimes it feels a bit harsh.

    The only differences between what I heard in the store and my system are:
    1) The Amp
    2) The room is obviously different
    3) The CD player

    My room is 14' X 19' (8' ceilings). The room is all hardwood, but I have an 8' X 11' area rug. All of my seating is cloth, I have a bit of echo when I clap my hands but it's not crazy. The dealer was carpet over concrete, and we were in a big open area, it was a room about 20' x 12' but also a hallway to other rooms so it was missing walls on the left and right side.

    My CD player is a newer Sony DVD player, but I'm using a Cambridge DacMagic to help. The store was using a new Rotel RCD-1520.

    My question is, could it be the amp that is making it sound brighter? Or is it my room or CD player/DAC?

    I would like to give a lot of love to these message boards. I have been reading them for years to research what has ultimately brought me to my current setup. I just couldn't contribute until now.

    Thanks for your help!
  • jamesdaman
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 136

    #2
    My advice would be go for a decent cd player and get some nice interconnects, ive got a cyrus cd8se with the psx-r which was alittle bright but very detailed and the timing is fantastic, when i changed the IC i had more of everything but it was warmer and much nicer to listen to

    Comment

    • mb225
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 131

      #3
      Thanks for the advice about the CD player and the interconnects. I understand that a really good CD player can make a HUGE difference. The only reason I didn't get the Rotel RCD-1520 is I'm trying to get away from physical CDs. My next purchase was going to be an Olive 4HD music server. I'm tired of finding and storing hundreds of CDs.

      For the interconnects, I'm using MIT EXp 1 interconnects. Speakers connects I'm using MIT EXp 3 cables. Unfortunately, my budget has some restrictions.

      What's odd is in the store they were using Monster cables and $1/foot speaker cables. I thought going to the MIT would be a bit of an upgrade from what I heard in the store? Maybe that was a rookie mistake?

      Comment

      • Orb
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2008
        • 147

        #4
        Originally posted by mb225
        Thanks for the advice about the CD player and the interconnects. I understand that a really good CD player can make a HUGE difference. The only reason I didn't get the Rotel RCD-1520 is I'm trying to get away from physical CDs. My next purchase was going to be an Olive 4HD music server. I'm tired of finding and storing hundreds of CDs.

        For the interconnects, I'm using MIT EXp 1 interconnects. Speakers connects I'm using MIT EXp 3 cables. Unfortunately, my budget has some restrictions.

        What's odd is in the store they were using Monster cables and $1/foot speaker cables. I thought going to the MIT would be a bit of an upgrade from what I heard in the store? Maybe that was a rookie mistake?
        Unfortunately interconnects can be rather unpredictable on their benefits, which could be down to different systems.
        If possible see if where you purchased the speakers from will loan various interconnects at the price you feel comfortable with.
        What works for one person's sytem does not necessarily works for your own.

        Are you in Europe or America or somewhere else?
        Depending where you are means you can get better bang for your bucks with different manufacturers.

        Cheers
        Orb

        Comment

        • mb225
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 131

          #5
          Originally posted by Orb
          Unfortunately interconnects can be rather unpredictable on their benefits, which could be down to different systems.
          If possible see if where you purchased the speakers from will loan various interconnects at the price you feel comfortable with.
          What works for one person's sytem does not necessarily works for your own.

          Are you in Europe or America or somewhere else?
          Depending where you are means you can get better bang for your bucks with different manufacturers.

          Cheers
          Orb
          Hi Orb, I never thought of that. That is some good advice. I will give them a call and see how much I can borrow? I'm thinking I should try to get a good CD player and some different interconnects.

          I live in the US, hope that helps with my "bang for the buck". :T

          I thought the room and amp would play a bigger part in this equation but I need to start somewhere!

          Comment

          • timjclark
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2009
            • 104

            #6
            Congrats on your new 803S's. I also picked up a pair of demo 803S's in December for a great price. They are a nice upgrade from my DM-640's. I'm running mine with a Proceed AMP-2 (150wpc) and this works quite nicely although am I tempted to pick up a second AMP-2 and either bi-amp or bridge each of them to give me some ooomph.
            -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
            -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
            -Rotel: RSP-1069
            -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

            Office system:
            -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
            -B&W LM-1, AS-1

            Comment

            • Orb
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2008
              • 147

              #7
              Personally I tend to agree and would probably focus on the amp initially, but I strongly suggest never purchase an amp unheard unless you got cash spare or can return it with minimal loss.

              But if your speakers are new, before changing anything wait for them to settle in.
              Does your dealer have a website or a list of what products he carries?
              Nad would be slightly more forgiving to the ear compared to Rotel IMO, but ideally you want to work with a dealer that has several different companies that you can consider.
              Let us know what they carry.
              Cheers
              Orb

              Comment

              • mb225
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 131

                #8
                The speakers were demos so they are all ready to go.

                My dealer has a 7-day trial of anything, so I can return the RB-1582 no questions asked. But I only have a few more days to before that trial ends.

                This dealer sells Rotel, NAD and McIntosh. McIntosh is way out of my price range. They don't have any NAD components so anything would have to be ordered.

                I actually have an older Adcom GFA-545 (100w/c) amp from when I first got into audio. I hooked it up and the Rotel destroys it! I mean no comparison! I had a few friends over and they said the Adcom seems like there is something wrong with it after listening to the Rotel. So the Rotel RB-1582 seems to have some nice sound; but at the same time it seems a bit bright. I'm going to call the dealer this afternoon to see if I can try out the RB-1552 with the Rotel CD player and see if that smoothes it out for me.

                The 803s are just amazing!! There is no way I'm returning them. I just need to figure out my electronics.

                I appreciate everyone's help and comments.

                Comment

                • stuofsci02
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 1241

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Orb
                  Personally I tend to agree and would probably focus on the amp initially, but I strongly suggest never purchase an amp unheard unless you got cash spare or can return it with minimal loss.

                  Orb
                  Amen... You helped me when I was shopping for my Power Amp...


                  If you are looking for a good CD player, I would suggest the Oppo BDP-83SE Universal Blue Ray player. It will play SACD, HDCD, DVDA, CD and Blu-Ray.

                  I would have been the first to scoff at anyone using a Blu-Ray as their CD source, but the BDP-83SE has been specially designed for Analog stero.. I have a Rotel RCD-1072 CD player only a year old, and the Oppo is better.. Now I have to sell my Rotel..

                  BTW.. The Oppo is about $900.

                  Look at this link..

                  Main System:
                  B&W 801D
                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                  Oppo BDP-105
                  Squeezebox Touch


                  Second System:
                  B&W CM7
                  Emotiva UMC-1
                  Emotiva UPA-2
                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                  Comment

                  • mb225
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 131

                    #10
                    Thanks for the Oppo suggestion! I will look into that! Does anyone have any experience with the Olive 4HD Music server? I'm wondering how it sounds in comparison to the high-end CD players?

                    Also, I just talked to my dealer. He is going to let me take home a Rotel RB-1552 (120w/c) the RCD-1520 and a NAD CD player to let me trial it in my home. They are a NAD dealer but they don't have any NAD separates on the floor, they only have AV receivers. They also said not to worry about my 7-day trial period, that we will get this tuned in for me. You can't beat that kind of service! :T

                    Comment

                    • jamesdaman
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 136

                      #11
                      People will disagree maybe but having anything in the 800 line up i think they need a good cd player as digital isnt Quite there yet. Borrow some IC and see how you get on, im personaly a massive believe as my ears tell me there is something differnt. Id focus on the cd player first then you can add all the bells and whistles later on. I was using a SACD player from sony and it was ok did the job with my 805s, now the cyrus is like omg differnt. It depends what kind of sound you like but the detail and layers you get from this source is really incredible.

                      Comment

                      • stuofsci02
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Nov 2009
                        • 1241

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mb225
                        Thanks for the Oppo suggestion! I will look into that! Does anyone have any experience with the Olive 4HD Music server? I'm wondering how it sounds in comparison to the high-end CD players?

                        Also, I just talked to my dealer. He is going to let me take home a Rotel RB-1552 (120w/c) the RCD-1520 and a NAD CD player to let me trial it in my home. They are a NAD dealer but they don't have any NAD separates on the floor, they only have AV receivers. They also said not to worry about my 7-day trial period, that we will get this tuned in for me. You can't beat that kind of service! :T
                        I have owned a bunch of NAD gear.. When I went looking for CD players I was down to the Rotel and a similarly priced NAD.. I think the Rotel was about $650 and the NAD was like $550 Canadian Dollars.. Both were capable players.

                        I also run a music server (Slim Device Squeeze Box). I am waiting to get an audition of the DAC Magic from a family member who has one. I am currently running the Dig out of the Squeeze box into my NAD receiver. All I can say is the OPPO blows that combo out of the water.. Now I have begun burning my FLAC files to CD to listen on the OPPO until I can get my hands on a good external DAC for the Squeeze Box..
                        Main System:
                        B&W 801D
                        Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                        Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                        Oppo BDP-105
                        Squeezebox Touch


                        Second System:
                        B&W CM7
                        Emotiva UMC-1
                        Emotiva UPA-2
                        Oppo BDP-83SE
                        Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                        Comment

                        • mb225
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 131

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jamesdaman
                          People will disagree maybe but having anything in the 800 line up i think they need a good cd player as digital isnt Quite there yet.
                          This is where I get confused? Isn't a CD player a digital source? Aren't you just really happy with the DAC in the CD player?

                          Comment

                          • stuofsci02
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 1241

                            #14
                            Originally posted by mb225
                            This is where I get confused? Isn't a CD player a digital source? Aren't you just really happy with the DAC in the CD player?
                            This is often a point of confusion.. The DAC does play a big role, but so does the rest of the analog output stage. Things that make a DAC + Analog stage sound bad are to name a few:

                            Power Supply
                            Transport Quality
                            DAC Quality
                            Clock (Digital Jitter is a big contributor to bad sound)
                            Coupling Capacitors
                            Component Quality

                            A good CD player only needs to have one analog output path. Because of this, a lot more money can be put into this stage then on a reciever.

                            For example on the Oppo I mentioned earlier, the BDP-83SE is the exact same as the BDP-83 except that the analog output stage and DAC have been upgraded. The cost difference which is $399 has been put into only the analog outputs.. If you run digital they are the same player..
                            Main System:
                            B&W 801D
                            Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                            Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                            Oppo BDP-105
                            Squeezebox Touch


                            Second System:
                            B&W CM7
                            Emotiva UMC-1
                            Emotiva UPA-2
                            Oppo BDP-83SE
                            Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                            Comment

                            • Dmm53
                              Junior Member
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 22

                              #15
                              I have owned 803S for about three years. I originally was running them with an RB 1080 (200 watts) with a Rotel premap and they sounded very harsh. I purchased a Mac MC352 from Audio Classics and it made a night and day diffference. Ultimately purchased a used Mac preamp as well. The preamp difference was not as pronounced.

                              I have changed out digital sources many times and found the CD player/dac can have just as profound effect as the amp. I now have a tube dac (Tube Audio Design)that has further "warmed up" the high end on the speakers.

                              Finally, room placement has been the most important component. Everytime I change the tow in, or move the speaker placement, the speaker sounds very different.

                              Good luck. The speakers are awesome, but will take a lot of work to maximize the sound.

                              Comment

                              • mb225
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 131

                                #16
                                Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                This is often a point of confusion.. The DAC does play a big role, but so does the rest of the analog output stage. Things that make a DAC + Analog stage sound bad are to name a few:

                                Power Supply
                                Transport Quality
                                DAC Quality
                                Clock (Digital Jitter is a big contributor to bad sound)
                                Coupling Capacitors
                                Component Quality

                                A good CD player only needs to have one analog output path. Because of this, a lot more money can be put into this stage then on a reciever.

                                For example on the Oppo I mentioned earlier, the BDP-83SE is the exact same as the BDP-83 except that the analog output stage and DAC have been upgraded. The cost difference which is $399 has been put into only the analog outputs.. If you run digital they are the same player..
                                Great information... Up until now, I thought the DAC was all that mattered. I think I may have just entered a world of financial pain... I really think that CD is a dead technology but I'm probably going to end up shelling-out $700+ on a good CD player. :E

                                My wife loves the speakers/music but hates all the CDs. I told her we could get an Olive Music Server and buy a nice DAC and it would solve all of our problems, looks like I was wrong.

                                Comment

                                • pazu
                                  Member
                                  • Nov 2009
                                  • 77

                                  #17
                                  Hallo Mb.

                                  I've a pair of 803S loudspeaker too.

                                  They're amazing, I'm agree with you.

                                  My amplifier is an hybrid one: Unico 100 by italian Unison Research (220 W RMS/ 8 ohm, 360 W/4, 670W/2), pre with tubes, main with mosfet.

                                  I just say you: 803S love a lot of watt! So, in my opinion, 200 W for channel is the minimum value you should choose for them.

                                  Comment

                                  • stuofsci02
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2009
                                    • 1241

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by mb225
                                    Great information... Up until now, I thought the DAC was all that mattered. I think I may have just entered a world of financial pain... I really think that CD is a dead technology but I'm probably going to end up shelling-out $700+ on a good CD player. :E

                                    My wife loves the speakers/music but hates all the CDs. I told her we could get an Olive Music Server and buy a nice DAC and it would solve all of our problems, looks like I was wrong.
                                    Wait.. I think you misunderstood me a little. When I was referring to the DAC I meant DAC chip inside the CD player or reciever.. If you have an external DAC like the DAC magic, then that is the whole analog output stage... If you buy a good external DAC and are happy playing everything from a server then you are good to go! This is my master plan too.

                                    Just make sure that your Pre-Amp or Pre/Pro does not convert it back to Digital to do DSP and then convert back to Analog.. Otherwise your nice external DAC will be useless.. This is why I need a good analog pre-amp with Home Theater Bypass.

                                    *EDIT*.. I now see that you are running the RC-1550.. No reason to worry about back conversion to digital.. Man I wish I could have a dedicated stereo setup...
                                    Main System:
                                    B&W 801D
                                    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                    Oppo BDP-105
                                    Squeezebox Touch


                                    Second System:
                                    B&W CM7
                                    Emotiva UMC-1
                                    Emotiva UPA-2
                                    Oppo BDP-83SE
                                    Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                    Comment

                                    • scanido
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Apr 2006
                                      • 548

                                      #19
                                      I have to agree that the 803S is a wonderful speaker and as said here many times by other members, it is the sweet spot model of the "S" series. Placement will definitely be a challenge as moving/angling the speaker even an inch will make a perceivable difference in sound. I know cause it took me well over a month of placement and listening sessions to get that right sound.

                                      Comment

                                      • jamesdaman
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Apr 2008
                                        • 136

                                        #20
                                        What i meant about about digital(as cds are digital of course) was something like a sonos or squeezebox if that makes sence. The meridian sooloos i think its called is very very good but thats a Whole differnt league and sounds fantastic. Id buy the best CD player you can afford, get a home demo and see how you get on. I know people are saying use a blu ray as your source but i personaly wouldnt but really thats just me

                                        Comment

                                        • stuofsci02
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2009
                                          • 1241

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by jamesdaman
                                          I know people are saying use a blu ray as your source but i personaly wouldnt but really thats just me
                                          I would have agreed with you until I heard the Oppo BDP-83SE...

                                          I am comparing it directly to my Rotel CD player which albeit is not Super High end, but it is a ~$700 cd player.

                                          I have heard of a bunch of people buying the OPPE BDP-83SE as their CD player in a dedicated stereo audio system (no TV), and not even using the Blu-Ray part..
                                          Main System:
                                          B&W 801D
                                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                          Oppo BDP-105
                                          Squeezebox Touch


                                          Second System:
                                          B&W CM7
                                          Emotiva UMC-1
                                          Emotiva UPA-2
                                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                          Comment

                                          • stuofsci02
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Nov 2009
                                            • 1241

                                            #22
                                            Now you guys are making me question my 804s instead of 803s...

                                            No worries.. The 803s would not have fit in my room.. At least thats what I tell myself..
                                            Main System:
                                            B&W 801D
                                            Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                            Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                            Oppo BDP-105
                                            Squeezebox Touch


                                            Second System:
                                            B&W CM7
                                            Emotiva UMC-1
                                            Emotiva UPA-2
                                            Oppo BDP-83SE
                                            Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                            Comment

                                            • mb225
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2009
                                              • 131

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Dmm53
                                              I have owned 803S for about three years. I originally was running them with an RB 1080 (200 watts) with a Rotel premap and they sounded very harsh. I purchased a Mac MC352 from Audio Classics and it made a night and day diffference. Ultimately purchased a used Mac preamp as well. The preamp difference was not as pronounced.
                                              Dmm53, That sounds like a really nice setup! I have always wanted a nice Mac setup. The blue needles are mesmerizing!

                                              I think I could spring for a Mac Amp. Something like an MC252 (250w/c) but I think the preamp would push it right out of my price range. Does anyone have experience running a Mac amp with a Rotel preamp? Do you think that would produce a nice sound or is it a bad idea to mix components? ops:

                                              Comment

                                              • mb225
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jan 2009
                                                • 131

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by stuofsci02
                                                Now you guys are making me question my 804s instead of 803s...

                                                No worries.. The 803s would not have fit in my room.. At least thats what I tell myself..
                                                Don't question it... You got the 804s and the rest of the gear to make it sing! I have 803s hooked up to a DacMagic/$100 sony CD player! It's a little ghetto-style! :rofl:

                                                I was able to do a side-by-side on the 803s and the 804s. The difference is subtle; the 803s have a bit more body/bass to them. It's not night and day. The dealer quoted me a $400 difference to jump to the 803s, my hand was forced! :twisted:

                                                Comment

                                                • stuofsci02
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Nov 2009
                                                  • 1241

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by mb225
                                                  Don't question it... You got the 804s and the rest of the gear to make it sing! I have 803s hooked up to a DacMagic/$100 sony CD player! It's a little ghetto-style! :rofl:

                                                  I was able to do a side-by-side on the 803s and the 804s. The difference is subtle; the 803s have a bit more body/bass to them. It's not night and day. The dealer quoted me a $400 difference to jump to the 803s, my hand was forced! :twisted:
                                                  For $400 I would have done it too. Actually my hand was forced by B&W changing the 800 series. My dealer could no longer order anymore of the old 800 series in Rosenut which is what I wanted. I actually would have liked to stick with my 683s for another year and then upgrade (since I just bought an expensive amp in Dec). Unfortunately or fortunately I had to jump in when I did and only had a choice of what they had in stock which was 805s, 804s, 803d or 801d. Well space and finances said 804s.

                                                  I am actually extremely happy with what I have now. All I need is a good pre-amp and a good external DAC so I can again listen to my music server. Until then it will be burning CDs from my FLAC files for my Oppo.
                                                  Main System:
                                                  B&W 801D
                                                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                  Oppo BDP-105
                                                  Squeezebox Touch


                                                  Second System:
                                                  B&W CM7
                                                  Emotiva UMC-1
                                                  Emotiva UPA-2
                                                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                  Comment

                                                  • stuofsci02
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Nov 2009
                                                    • 1241

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by mb225
                                                    Don't question it... You got the 804s and the rest of the gear to make it sing! I have 803s hooked up to a DacMagic/$100 sony CD player! It's a little ghetto-style! :rofl:
                                                    Am I correct in assuming this is a dedicated stereo setup?

                                                    I noticed you were concerned about your amp, and were thinking McIntosh but were concerned with the pre-amp. Before I bought my Chord I auditioned the Rotel Class-D 250wpc amp with the 804s and found it a bit bright and thin. I figured it was the class D design and wouldn't be there in the class AB design. I did not go back and audition any of the Rotel Class AB designs though.

                                                    Have you auditioned an integrated amp? I think thats what I would do if I had a dedicated 2 channel listening setup. You could probably get into the McIntosh for a little cheaper that way and you will get seamless integration of the pre and amp.
                                                    Main System:
                                                    B&W 801D
                                                    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                    Oppo BDP-105
                                                    Squeezebox Touch


                                                    Second System:
                                                    B&W CM7
                                                    Emotiva UMC-1
                                                    Emotiva UPA-2
                                                    Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                    Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Antus
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Apr 2008
                                                      • 141

                                                      #27
                                                      first, make sure you have all speaker cable connect correctly. bi-wire them and remove the metal piece. If you are not biwireing, get a short jumper cable instead of the metal piece connecting the post.

                                                      go to local BestBuy and buy some mid price Monster Cable. get both interconnect and speaker cable. try them to see if the "harshness" goes away. From my experience, quality cable is usually better than high-end cable.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • mb225
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jan 2009
                                                        • 131

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Antus
                                                        first, make sure you have all speaker cable connect correctly. bi-wire them and remove the metal piece. If you are not biwireing, get a short jumper cable instead of the metal piece connecting the post.

                                                        go to local BestBuy and buy some mid price Monster Cable. get both interconnect and speaker cable. try them to see if the "harshness" goes away. From my experience, quality cable is usually better than high-end cable.
                                                        That is really interesting!! I'm using the jumpers that came with the 803s. I'm not biwireing but using a single cable. My speaker cables plug into the bass side and I jumper to the treble side. I wonder if I reverse the plugs if I might see a difference?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • stuofsci02
                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                          • Nov 2009
                                                          • 1241

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by mb225
                                                          That is really interesting!! I'm using the jumpers that came with the 803s. I'm not biwireing but using a single cable. My speaker cables plug into the bass side and I jumper to the treble side. I wonder if I reverse the plugs if I might see a difference?
                                                          I have bi-wired and single wired and have not noticed any difference. I use Carnival Silver Screen cables and I would not be able to double blind test against the $1/ft 12awg I used to use and notice a difference to be honest.

                                                          I do however have the cables going into the upper terminals and jumpered to the lower as recommended in the B&W manual although I don't think this makes a difference..
                                                          Main System:
                                                          B&W 801D
                                                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                          Oppo BDP-105
                                                          Squeezebox Touch


                                                          Second System:
                                                          B&W CM7
                                                          Emotiva UMC-1
                                                          Emotiva UPA-2
                                                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Antus
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Apr 2008
                                                            • 141

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by mb225
                                                            That is really interesting!! I'm using the jumpers that came with the 803s. I'm not biwireing but using a single cable. My speaker cables plug into the bass side and I jumper to the treble side. I wonder if I reverse the plugs if I might see a difference?
                                                            I thought B&W still using the old metal piece to connect post. looks like that's not the case now.

                                                            by looking at your setup, my next guess would be the interconnectoin cable you are using. The MIT Exp1. They seems use silver plated copper for center core. Try use some regular copper core stuff and see what you get. If you have 2 extra video cable available, u can try to use them as audio signal cable. (the yellow conpositite cable or use 2 out of 3 of conponant cable)

                                                            for single wire, u have 4 options. 1. both on high and jumper to low, 2. both on low and jumper to high, 3. one on high jumper to low and another on low jumper to high, 4. the opposite of #3.

                                                            U can try all 4 and see if you can hear any difference.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • mb225
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Jan 2009
                                                              • 131

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Antus
                                                              I thought B&W still using the old metal piece to connect post. looks like that's not the case now.

                                                              by looking at your setup, my next guess would be the interconnectoin cable you are using. The MIT Exp1. They seems use silver plated copper for center core. Try use some regular copper core stuff and see what you get.
                                                              That's a great suggestion. I'm going to try regular old copper and see if that takes the edge off (brightness).

                                                              One of my friends has 685s and he has a metal bridge on the connecting posts. My 803s came with a little piece of wire, one end has a banana connect and the other has a half-round.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • jamesdaman
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Apr 2008
                                                                • 136

                                                                #32
                                                                The carnival silver screen is a good budget cable and you should be able to hear a differnce between that and very cheap cable. All my cables use silver in them
                                                                and I don't find it to be bright or harsh to my ears. Either way just borrow some cables see how you get on

                                                                Comment

                                                                • altanpsx
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Nov 2008
                                                                  • 63

                                                                  #33
                                                                  As a 803s owner you should aim for a Classe, Ear, ASR, Nagra, Audio Research Ref series, Mcintosh etc. Not for a Nad or an Oppo, even Rotel.

                                                                  For a speaker cable I suggest you to try Audioquest Volcano, it makes 2 times bigger your speakers. Also Audioquest Sky, Niagara ai are very good cables, and it would be a good match with volcano.

                                                                  My current setup is;

                                                                  803s, classe cap-2100, ear acute cd player(with nos tubes), pro-ject 9.1 rpm turntable, Primare R-20 Phono Stage, Audioquest Volcano speaker cable, Sky AI's

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Mikael
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Aug 2007
                                                                    • 379

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Hi

                                                                    I think the RB1552 will be a better match with the B&W's, my experience with Rotel amps is this, the ones with 100 til 12o watts power has a more mellow sound and are not so brigth, the higher in watts you go the more controlled they sound with a lesser body to the sound and therefore can sound a bit more thin/bright in sound, please let us know what you think when you had a chance to hear the RB1552 in your system.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Orb
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                                      • 147

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by altanpsx
                                                                      As a 803s owner you should aim for a Classe, Ear, ASR, Nagra, Audio Research Ref series, Mcintosh etc. Not for a Nad or an Oppo, even Rotel.

                                                                      For a speaker cable I suggest you to try Audioquest Volcano, it makes 2 times bigger your speakers. Also Audioquest Sky, Niagara ai are very good cables, and it would be a good match with volcano.

                                                                      My current setup is;

                                                                      803s, classe cap-2100, ear acute cd player(with nos tubes), pro-ject 9.1 rpm turntable, Primare R-20 Phono Stage, Audioquest Volcano speaker cable, Sky AI's
                                                                      So many posts since yesterday so starting here
                                                                      At those price points the M series Nad still is cheaper I think and does work well with B&W, and importantly can add Naim to that, both have a large following like Classe, etc - I am a fan of all 3 tbh and more... Chord Electronics!!!

                                                                      If ones budget is rather tight then it will be hard to ignore the Nad series or Naim, also you have Musical Fidelity, Cambridge Audio, and a few others.

                                                                      Another possiblity mb225, you could consider a quality integrated as this is now becoming a highly competitive section.

                                                                      OK IMO those names above would suite you fine mb225 when looking at their higher end products (Naim it would be their mid combined with their external power supply and they have many fans, maybe Naim Nait XS and think this can be upgraded with better external power supply they sell that many say does improve the sound, not sure though if it supports other manufacturers and importantly requires specific Naim cables - I think).

                                                                      Bang for your bucks I would also consider these integrateds as well;
                                                                      Harman Kardon HD990/HK990 (CD and integrated amp)
                                                                      ATC ATC SIA 2-150
                                                                      Anthem 225.

                                                                      Regarding CD/DAC, still for the budget I do not think you can go wrong with Cambridge Audio.
                                                                      If buying their higher models then there is probably no need for their DacMagic; unless of course your looking for a storage based solution.
                                                                      As Stu says and good advice, its hard to ignore the Oppo player especially as the Oppo BDP-83 has been put into an expensive Lexicon.

                                                                      The key to whatever you do mb225, is plan ahead and look to listen before you purchase
                                                                      This could mean spending a good few hours hunting down a few useful dealers to help with auditioning, but its worth it :T

                                                                      Cheers
                                                                      Orb

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • stuofsci02
                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                        • Nov 2009
                                                                        • 1241

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by mb225
                                                                        One of my friends has 685s and he has a metal bridge on the connecting posts. My 803s came with a little piece of wire, one end has a banana connect and the other has a half-round.
                                                                        Yep.. The 600 series comes with jumper bars and the 800 series comes with a jumper cable with a banana on one side and a spade on the other.
                                                                        Main System:
                                                                        B&W 801D
                                                                        Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                        Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                        Oppo BDP-105
                                                                        Squeezebox Touch


                                                                        Second System:
                                                                        B&W CM7
                                                                        Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                        Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                        Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                        Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • stuofsci02
                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                          • Nov 2009
                                                                          • 1241

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Orb
                                                                          its hard to ignore the Oppo player especially as the Oppo BDP-83 has been put into an expensive Lexicon.
                                                                          Yes.. This I found actually a little disturbing.. Apparently they just dropped a standard (not even the SE) version of the Oppo BDP-83 (a $499 player) into a Lexicon box and set the price at $3499..

                                                                          We discovered the Lexicon BD-30 is an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player with a $3k premium. We prove this with pictures, measurements and an official response from THX. Lexicon no longer sells this product.
                                                                          Main System:
                                                                          B&W 801D
                                                                          Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                                                          Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                                                          Oppo BDP-105
                                                                          Squeezebox Touch


                                                                          Second System:
                                                                          B&W CM7
                                                                          Emotiva UMC-1
                                                                          Emotiva UPA-2
                                                                          Oppo BDP-83SE
                                                                          Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Orb
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Aug 2008
                                                                            • 147

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Makes purchasing the oppo a bargain and points to it being a bargain :T
                                                                            Good purchase you got there

                                                                            Cheers
                                                                            Orb

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • jamesdaman
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Apr 2008
                                                                              • 136

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Cambridge audio here in the UK is considered a lower end brand i think there highest amp is only something like £850 which isnt that pricey no idea on the quality though

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Orb
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Aug 2008
                                                                                • 147

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by jamesdaman
                                                                                Cambridge audio here in the UK is considered a lower end brand i think there highest amp is only something like £850 which isnt that pricey no idea on the quality though
                                                                                Their top product is pretty well respected by reviewers (whatever that means to anyone) and also those who listen to and purchase them.

                                                                                Bear in mind Cambridge Audio also sell one of the cheapest DACs out there, and this performs incredibly well for its price, some rate it equal to products 2-3x more expensive.

                                                                                All of this is relative of course to one's budget, if someone has constraints you could do much worse than this and the others I mentioned.

                                                                                Cheers
                                                                                Orb

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • mb225
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Jan 2009
                                                                                  • 131

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by jamesdaman
                                                                                  The carnival silver screen is a good budget cable and you should be able to hear a differnce between that and very cheap cable. All my cables use silver in them
                                                                                  and I don't find it to be bright or harsh to my ears. Either way just borrow some cables see how you get on
                                                                                  Jamesdaman, are you using a B&W 800 series with rotel?

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • jamesdaman
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Apr 2008
                                                                                    • 136

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    No im using cyrus and quad but i demoed the rotel stuff in the past with the same speaker cable im using and IC. I found cheaper IC with silver in them to brighter but the IC im using now are highend ones but use silver and are just mmmmmmmmmm haha very impressed

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • mb225
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Jan 2009
                                                                                      • 131

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      BTW, I had some very old (15-years) mid-grade copper cables. I got them at a high-end audio store back in the day... I put them on and could definitely hear a difference! I wasn't a huge believer in cables but I must say, I'm convinced there are differences. The copper cables don't have good shielding so I'm picking up some additional interference. It took the brightness down! Unfortunately, it also took away some of the bass and the overall detail. After putting the MIT's back I couldn't believe the clarity! But then the brightness comes with it.

                                                                                      I know they were using monster cables in the showroom and my salesman said he doesn't think monster makes good cables, but maybe that's what I need to smooth out the sound?

                                                                                      Here's the million dollar question, would I be better off putting more money into my components or my cables? I noticed some of the cable suggestions cost > $1,500/meter!! My amp was less $$$ than that! 8O

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Orb
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Aug 2008
                                                                                        • 147

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        mb225,
                                                                                        before I forget one important suggestion I feel.
                                                                                        If you can hold out, wait to replace any component/cables until you are 100% sure of the speaker characteristic in your current setup and with your various music albums.

                                                                                        To me this is important as you will find you become more astute on the sounds presented and this may help you to identify albums that are the best as a reference for replacing components.
                                                                                        These could be some tracks that you notice being overly harsh/hard or wrong in some way due to a combination of say certain notes from instruments or voices, or on the other spectrum what you feel is perfect.
                                                                                        Only spending time with your music before changing components can you get a feel for reference and the potential of change your looking out for.

                                                                                        This is my take and everyone has a different way, so no problems if you feel this is not for you

                                                                                        Hope that helps
                                                                                        Orb

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • jamesdaman
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Apr 2008
                                                                                          • 136

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          It depends it really does id personaly buy the gear and save for the cables or hit ebay where you can get some cracking deals. I dont want to mention names and get in trouble but if you PM ill suggest some stuff to you I added a £525 IC and really the differnce was as big if not bigger then going from my crummy sony CD to the cyrus and the cyrus aint not slouch hehe

                                                                                          Comment

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