603 S3 Midrange nightmare :(

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  • Juzam
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2010
    • 8

    603 S3 Midrange nightmare :(

    First of all, hello to all. I'm using a pair of B&W DM603 S3 loudspeakers with an Onkyo TX-8211. I know it's a dreadful match but this is all I can get at this moment.

    Yesterday, when I was listening to King Crimson on a moderate volume, suddenly the occasional burping sound from the left speaker suddenly started to came a lot and then the midrange driver died.

    I immediately pressed a bit on the driver to check whether or not I've roasted it's voice coil. The driver's motion was smooth and on top of that, sound came as soon as I pressed it. Sound cut off when I took my hand off the driver. Pressed again, sound, retracted, no sound. So there must be a disconnection somewhere I thought. I called my technician and he concurred and added that it's a 5 minute soldering operation. I'm gonna take it down to his workshop first thing monday morning.

    But, when I was pressing down on the drivers, I noticed a horrible thing.

    These are the midrange and woofers of my right speaker when pressed down a bit:



    And..these abominations are the ones on the left speaker:



    I'm totally freaked out right now. What do these cracks mean? Do they affect sound quality? The only solution is to replace them? My god...
  • duketbrd88
    Member
    • Jul 2009
    • 54

    #2
    How old are they, those rubber surrounds should NOT look like that. Did you buy them locally? I would talk to B&W, i think they have a five year warranty. If they are out of warranty, drives really are not that exspensive to replace.

    Comment

    • stuofsci02
      Super Senior Member
      • Nov 2009
      • 1241

      #3
      Yep... That looks like the first sign of speaker rot.. I have seen speakers that the whole rubber surround has disintegrated..

      Is it only on one speaker? If so, is that speaker close to a heat source?
      Main System:
      B&W 801D
      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
      Oppo BDP-105
      Squeezebox Touch


      Second System:
      B&W CM7
      Emotiva UMC-1
      Emotiva UPA-2
      Oppo BDP-83SE
      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

      Comment

      • emig5m
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2008
        • 646

        #4
        I always wondered if occasionally putting some type of protectant on the surrounds would make them last longer and keep from drying out...

        Comment

        • 1oldguy
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 459

          #5
          Yes good idea.....there must be a way o prolong the life of the surrounds.
          A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

          Comment

          • Space
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 118

            #6
            Originally posted by stuofsci02
            Yep... That looks like the first sign of speaker rot.. I have seen speakers that the whole rubber surround has disintegrated..
            Are you sure you saw this on a rubber surround? That's certainly been an issue with foam surrounds but rubber is much more durable.

            This is a strange symptom and may be a manufacturing defect, like the rubber compound was mixed wrong and became brittle. If true then there might be a recall or at least some evidence that this is widespread, because it wouldn't affect just one speaker. Do the serial numbers suggest these two speakers (left and right) were made about the same time?

            If that's not it then maybe there was abuse by a previous owner. To push the cone far enough to crease the surrounds like that would take either huge power or DC input. That would also explain the first problem.

            Comment

            • tyreman
              Junior Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 29

              #7
              I have seen quite a few rubber surrounds in speakers from the 70's 80's from the likes of Kef and B&W but no damge to the rubber surround9s)
              Looks like a defect to me or caused by "something"

              Comment

              • PewterTA
                Moderator
                • Nov 2004
                • 2901

                #8
                It's a defect in the speaker, contact B&W or your dealer to have the drivers replaced....I've had my 604s3 for a long time and never had a problem. A lot of others have never had a problem with theirs, so it's definitely a defect.

                You could remove the screws and pull the drivers out and look at the inside of them and see if you can see what went wrong, but you'll probably need new drivers.
                Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                -Dan

                Comment

                • stuofsci02
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Nov 2009
                  • 1241

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Space
                  Are you sure you saw this on a rubber surround? That's certainly been an issue with foam surrounds but rubber is much more durable.
                  Looking back I cannot recall, but it must have been foam.. Speakers were from 1983 and used everyday..
                  Main System:
                  B&W 801D
                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                  Oppo BDP-105
                  Squeezebox Touch


                  Second System:
                  B&W CM7
                  Emotiva UMC-1
                  Emotiva UPA-2
                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                  Comment

                  • Juzam
                    Junior Member
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 8

                    #10
                    Thank you all for your attention.

                    The serial numbers on the speakers from left to right is 0086253 and 0086254 respectively. They're a matched pair. They were owned by my late father. He never had a chance to listen to them that much anyway and they've been sitting idle for nearly 2 years since his passing away. I was on the third day of using them myself when this happened. I remember buying them with him 6 years ago. The store we bought them off has gone bankrupt and closed in 2007.

                    So after taking apart the speaker with my friend tomorrow (he's an excellent car audio specialist) and repairing the cable, should I contact B&W directly for a replacement?

                    Comment

                    • William
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2006
                      • 194

                      #11
                      I always cringe ever time I see someone put a (nasty) finger on a speaker. Even if you just washed your hands you will deposit oils, acid and other contaminants that can't be removed. If you must touch use a clean micro fiber towel.

                      Comment

                      • 1oldguy
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 459

                        #12
                        Originally posted by William
                        I always cringe ever time I see someone put a (nasty) finger on a speaker. Even if you just washed your hands you will deposit oils, acid and other contaminants that can't be removed. If you must touch use a clean micro fiber towel.
                        Agreed,giving B&W the human touch is inappropriate.
                        A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                        Comment

                        • Juzam
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 8

                          #13
                          Although recently manicured, I must admit my finger looks rather nasty. That's because of an old habit of me messing with my thumbs when I'm nervous. I disinfect my hands with alcohol three times a day because of the deadly swine flu but of course you can never be completely sanitized.

                          Comment

                          • William
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2006
                            • 194

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Juzam
                            Although recently manicured, I must admit my finger looks rather nasty. That's because of an old habit of me messing with my thumbs when I'm nervous. I disinfect my hands with alcohol three times a day because of the deadly swine flu but of course you can never be completely sanitized.
                            Again this doesn't matter. You (and everybody's) hands naturally have oils, acids and other contaminants that you can't "sanitize" off. Have you ever heard that a crook didn't leave finger prints because he washed his hands? Of course not he MUST were gloves. If you want to see just touch a clean piece of glass and you will leave a finger print that is also left on the speaker (and everything else you touch). :W

                            Comment

                            • tyreman
                              Junior Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 29

                              #15
                              yes contact b&w
                              they may want the sn's too.
                              Who knows if its a warranty after 6 years but only one way to find out.

                              Comment

                              • Juzam
                                Junior Member
                                • Jan 2010
                                • 8

                                #16
                                We took apart the speaker today. A tiny bit of wire that was between the voice coil and basket was loose. My friend re-soldered it and now works fine. Also one of the wires that go to the terminals of the woofer was touching the cone, hence the burping sound. He also sorted it out. He admired the fine craftsmanship but added that there must be a manufacturing defect on the surrounds. He said it would be fine, that it wouldn't affect SQ that much. So I hooked it up today and I've been listening ever since the morning. Absolutely perfect. No worries here.

                                So now that this is over, I've been looking for an amp for my speakers. I've searched all manner of makes and models and it seems that the majority of people using B&Ws drive them with Classe or Rotel amps, which are sold at astronomical prices here unfortunately.

                                I've found that the Marantz PM 7001 KI is just my thing. Good price, integrated so simple to use. 70W RMS x2 modest power, well build quality. Will this be a good choice or must I crave my way to a Rotel pre+power combo?

                                Comment

                                • stuofsci02
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2009
                                  • 1241

                                  #17
                                  Yes.. The marantz should be just fine for your 603s...

                                  I had my 603s pairs up with NAD amplifiers also and found it to be a good match.. Not sure what the cost of NAD is there, but typcally they are a good price/performance.
                                  Main System:
                                  B&W 801D
                                  Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                  Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                  Oppo BDP-105
                                  Squeezebox Touch


                                  Second System:
                                  B&W CM7
                                  Emotiva UMC-1
                                  Emotiva UPA-2
                                  Oppo BDP-83SE
                                  Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                  Comment

                                  • george_k
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2004
                                    • 342

                                    #18
                                    I had 603s powered by a 60watt NAD and found that they played sufficiently loud but the sound quality was lack luster especially in the lows. I doubt the additional 10 watts over my 60 will add much.

                                    You owe it to your ears to power them with something that outputs a little more grunt. I bought a used McIntosh integrated at a good price. It's the only piece of equipment that I bought cold (without a listening test) that I ended up being completely happy with...it's not going anywhere soon.

                                    Comment

                                    • 1oldguy
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2008
                                      • 459

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Juzam
                                      We took apart the speaker today. A tiny bit of wire that was between the voice coil and basket was loose. My friend re-soldered it and now works fine. Also one of the wires that go to the terminals of the woofer was touching the cone, hence the burping sound. He also sorted it out. He admired the fine craftsmanship but added that there must be a manufacturing defect on the surrounds. He said it would be fine, that it wouldn't affect SQ that much. So I hooked it up today and I've been listening ever since the morning. Absolutely perfect. No worries here.

                                      So now that this is over, I've been looking for an amp for my speakers. I've searched all manner of makes and models and it seems that the majority of people using B&Ws drive them with Classe or Rotel amps, which are sold at astronomical prices here unfortunately.

                                      I've found that the Marantz PM 7001 KI is just my thing. Good price, integrated so simple to use. 70W RMS x2 modest power, well build quality. Will this be a good choice or must I crave my way to a Rotel pre+power combo?
                                      Have you considered Bryston amps?
                                      A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                                      Comment

                                      • Antus
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Apr 2008
                                        • 141

                                        #20
                                        I found Krell's new baby 300i works quite well with b&w speaker. it's an intergrated 150W per channel and i think the msrp is like $2500 USD in the US.

                                        Comment

                                        • BWzes03
                                          Member
                                          • Oct 2005
                                          • 96

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Antus
                                          I found Krell's new baby 300i works quite well with b&w speaker. it's an intergrated 150W per channel and i think the msrp is like $2500 USD in the US.
                                          That means its probably 3000 Euros in Europe .....

                                          Comment

                                          • Juzam
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Jan 2010
                                            • 8

                                            #22
                                            (Reply coming from the depths of space-time continuum) I'm now using my Marantz KI Pearl Lite for 2 years now with my S3s. So far it's been a perfect match. Unbelievable clarity and "oomph" at demand.
                                            As for the rubber surrounds, I immediately applied an old and trusted friend, the Würth Silicone Spray to them. I've been using silicone spray for more than 10 years in a variety of applications (from the usual automotive application to strengthening plastic parts of my RC vehicles) BUT I MAKE SURE THAT IT IS PLASTIC-SAFE FIRST. The cracks completely disappeared after 2 days. After that, I sprayed ALL of my speakers in my house and car with the stuff. I even "rescued" a severely cracked 20 year old Pioneer surround of a friend. Now after 2 years I'm starting to see the cracks again so this time I applied a Berner brand one. I totally recommend this method to anyone who are not able to replace their drivers.

                                            Comment

                                            • sgtjim57
                                              Member
                                              • Dec 2008
                                              • 85

                                              #23
                                              I have the same speakers but my surrounds are black. Is this because the cabinets are black or is it a different material? Either way, I tested each driver (as shown) and mine were all smooth unlike the op's. Tried to post a pic, failed.
                                              Sony Bravia OLED A1E 55"
                                              SVS SB 2000 X 2
                                              Denon X4000 (Looking to upgrade due to 4K, ATMOS, DTSX)
                                              Oppo BDP 93
                                              Apple TV 4K
                                              B & W N804 Mains
                                              B & W 603 Rear surrounds
                                              B & W LCR 600 Center
                                              B & W CDS6 (Not in use)
                                              Sony TA N77ES (Not in use)

                                              Comment

                                              • RobP
                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2004
                                                • 4747

                                                #24
                                                Just a quick FYI, I have a sticky at the top of this sub forum for B&W parts replacement with a phone number you can call.
                                                Robert P. 8)

                                                AKA "Soundgravy"

                                                Comment

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