Behringer UltraDrive DCX 24/96 or Other Digital Loudspeaker Management Systems

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • intelonetwo
    Member
    • Jan 2003
    • 48

    Behringer UltraDrive DCX 24/96 or Other Digital Loudspeaker Management Systems

    Hi All,
    I purchased the Behringer UltraDrive 24/96 and the sister unit the UltraCurve 24/96 which does Room Eq, RTA, and other functions.

    I wanted to see if anybody on this site has any experience with these units together or individually?

    The Behringer units will be used on a pair of speakers I am almost finished with. Each speaker is a two box with "MTM" module and "Bass" module similar to any of the Von Schweikert VR-4, or Wilson Watt Puppy designs.

    The "MTM" module features two Peerless CSX 6.5" mid-woofers centered above and below a Vifa PL tweeter in a cabinet which is 22"H x 15"D x 9"W and can be ported.

    The "Bass" module features two Peerless CSX 8" woofers centered in a cabinet which is 30"H x 25"D x 10.5" and can be ported.

    l am not sure if there is a usersgroup such as Yahoo groups to obtain information, but I do believe that even if their were one it would not likely address Home Audio specific issues or applications.

    It would be a great help if someone here had practical home audio experiences with the units.

    I choose the Behringer DCX 24/96 based mostly on price to performance along with the ability to manipulate channels levels, gains, delays, etc., individually.

    One potential limiting factor of the DCX was that since the proccessing power in the unit is shared, depending on the slope, and crossover frequency used in the DCX, the amount of processing power left available for the Eq functions are limited.

    Using the sister unit to the DCX, called the DEQ 24/96, this deficiency was remedied, because the DEQ is a separate unit that performs all the Eq'ing functions as well as well as Automatic Room Eq.




    MI-II-CENTS
    ______________
    The TailWind Generation I
  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    Davey has the DCX 2496, sfdoddsy has the dBx 260 perhaps they'll chime in here.




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • intelonetwo
      Member
      • Jan 2003
      • 48

      #3
      Hi ThomasW
      I thought I read many post ago that you ordered a Driverack PA? Is this wrong?




      MI-II-CENTS
      ______________
      The TailWind Generation I

      Comment

      • ThomasW
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 10934

        #4
        Hi

        Nope not me, I find the entire low buck digital EQ idea somewhat problematic. I may pick up something quick and dirty for prototyping and there are some PC based EQ's that are free..




        theAudioWorx
        Klone-Audio

        IB subwoofer FAQ page


        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

        Comment

        • sfdoddsy
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2000
          • 496

          #5
          I have the Driverack 260 and I am getting a DCX 2496 for my center and surrounds later on this year. I used to have an Ultracurve 8024.

          I believe some people at Audio Asylum may be using one or both of the Behringer units.

          Are you going digital all the way, ie digital out from CD to Ultracurve to Ultradrive, or doing A/D at the Ultracurve then to the Ultradrive?

          If the former, you need to work out where you are going to do volume control, and if the latter you'll want to keep the signals into the A/D section as high as possible. This will probably mean some kind of attenuators just before your power amps.

          Ideally, but not cheaply, you would have a preamp or prepro with proper digital outputs such as one of the Meridian units, which would give you digital all the way with volume control for all sources including HT.


          Cheers

          Steve




          Steve's DIY Dipoles
          Steve's OB Journey

          Comment

          • Davey
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2003
            • 355

            #6
            Chime. I have a DCX2496, and have been playing with it for a few months. There are many features that those of us in the home audio world would never use, but I think I have most of the rest of it sorted out. Give me a holler if I can help.

            Cheers,

            Davey.

            Comment

            • intelonetwo
              Member
              • Jan 2003
              • 48

              #7
              ThomasW
              Sorry for the mix up. My reasoning for going digital is two fold: 1. To give me flexibility in my DIY ventures and 2. Since most music I listen to anyway is processed so heavily during pre and post production that it does not seem to matter much the little amount of processing I am doing at the final stages of the signals journey. -----

              Steve
              I will utilizing the Behringer pieces in an all digital configuration as follows:
              Out: Yamaha RX-V1 Receiver (toslink, spdif)
              In: UltraCurve DEQ
              Out: UltraCurve DEQ (AES/EBU)
              In: UltraDrive DXC
              Out: UltraDrive DCX
              In: UltraCurve
              Out: UltraCurve (toslink, spdif)
              In: Yamaha RX-V1 Receiver

              Steve, will this satisfy the volume control problem? What I mean is will the amplifer being used to actively amplify the left and right speakers need to be attenuated before receiving the signal.

              How many DCX's are necessary to equalize an entire 7.1 system? Would you need a DEQ for each pair of channels to do room eq, and other functions? -----

              Davey,
              Any tips before I actually receive my DCX, which should be tomorrow? -----

              I already have the DEQ, and as I said the DCX will be here tomorrow. I plan to hook the units up to a surround system that I have running off the Yamaha receiver.

              How would I deal with the fact that my Pioneer DV-563A DVD-A/SACD player is hooked up via both the toslink digital and 5.1 outputs. SACD discs are played through the 5.1 outputs of the DVD player. In using my RX-V1 to output the digital signal, will a signal be output to the digital output connection?

              I do not know how many channels I can apply processing from either the DEQ, or the DCX using a receiver so that is I guess I would like to find out the answer to.

              When operating a bi/tri-amp setup (like mine) with digital room equalization, and crossing functions, do its positive benefits outweight its negative benefits which are namely digital, sterile, clinical, and anaylitical sound? I have read many article which outline the room as being the single biggest hurdle in achieving great sound. If this holds true, then would not the digital solution be superior to many other so called upgrades?




              MI-II-CENTS
              ______________
              The TailWind Generation I

              Comment

              • billt
                Junior Member
                • Sep 2003
                • 1

                #8
                Originally posted by sfdoddsy

                Ideally, but not cheaply, you would have a preamp or prepro with proper digital outputs such as one of the Meridian units, which would give you digital all the way with volume control for all sources including HT.
                Unfortunately even a Meridian control unit won't let you control levels on the digital outputs. The system is designed to be used with their dsp speakers, and the level control processing is done by the speaker processor. I wish it were not so, as I'd love to be able to use the digital outputs from my 561, but I don't have any way of adjusting the levels on them.

                Bill

                Comment

                • Dennis H
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 3791

                  #9
                  I will utilizing the Behringer pieces in an all digital configuration as follows:
                  Out: Yamaha RX-V1 Receiver (toslink, spdif)
                  In: UltraCurve DEQ
                  Out: UltraCurve DEQ (AES/EBU)
                  In: UltraDrive DXC
                  Out: UltraDrive DCX
                  In: UltraCurve
                  Out: UltraCurve (toslink, spdif)
                  In: Yamaha RX-V1 Receiver
                  The DCX doesn't have digital outs so that won't be an all digital path. And, in that configuration, I'm not sure why you need all those boxes. You're limited to 2 channels of digital signal so you wouldn't be able to do any crossovers. If you want a basic speaker crossover/EQ I'd start off with just a DCX on your receiver's analog outs and feed that to external analog amps. Get that working and then expand/change if needed. I doubt you'll have much luck feeding the signal back into a receiver.

                  Davey, have you tried the dynamic EQ? That looks like a really nifty feature for a dipole woofer. You could EQ it flat at normal volumes and have it fade in a low shelving cut if you get loud bass transients. You could hopefully fine tune it so the speakers play flat most of the time but you couldn't ever bottom the woofers.

                  Comment

                  • sfdoddsy
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2000
                    • 496

                    #10
                    Bill,

                    I always thought the digital outs on the 561 could be used with any DAC, and that the 561 had volume control. I know guys are using it with TACT room correction units and I'd assumed that's what they were doing. Good thing I didn't buy one.

                    Steve




                    Steve's DIY Dipoles
                    Steve's OB Journey

                    Comment

                    • sfdoddsy
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2000
                      • 496

                      #11
                      i1/2,

                      Like the others I'm a little confused by your signal paths. The simplest one would be simply receiver-DEQ-DCX-amps. This would be the front channel chain, and the DEQ would give you glabal room EQ, with the DCX doing crossovers and speaker EQ.

                      The surrounds question depends a bit on whether you are biamping those too, but the DCX can be configured to accept three inputs with 3-6 outputs, so a single unit could do your center and two surrounds, plus one more unit for your side surrounds and sub.

                      Whether the DCX alone would have enough processing power depends on whether you are doing crossovers as well, and how much room EQ you want to try.

                      As to the overall question of whether room EQ overcomes any potential sonic nasties from the extra digital step, the answer for me is a definite yes. I've used the Behringer Feedback Destroyer for bass, the Ultracurve for full room correction, a TACT RCS, and my current dbx Driverack and they have all improved things far more than any miniscule losses in transparency.

                      My personal chain of command for things that make a difference in my system and to my ears runs speakers and room, then all the rest a fair distance behind dragging up the rear.

                      The question with your setup is whether you just attack from 250 or so down, or do full range EQ. There is a very good article at www.tagmclarenaudio.com about this - check in the VIP club.

                      The other thing to ponder is whether you really need to EQ the surrounds.

                      Dennis,

                      I've tried the dynamic EQ on my dbx in just the way you suggest, and it does eliminate any woofer bottoming. I just feel its a little bit naughty even for me to use.



                      Cheers

                      Steve




                      Steve's DIY Dipoles
                      Steve's OB Journey

                      Comment

                      • intelonetwo
                        Member
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 48

                        #12
                        DennisH
                        I have a revised the connection of the DEQ and the DCX to my system. If I understand Behringer tech support correctly I will now connect as follows:
                        Out: Yamaha RX-V1 (spdif)
                        In: DEQ
                        Out: DEQ (AES/EBU)
                        In: DCX
                        Out: DCX (Analog)
                        In: Amplifier/Speakers

                        This configuration would give me the necessary Eq's, and crossovers for he front mains which is what I am concerned with presently. The center surrounds, and subwoofer are not on my list yet.

                        Having the DEQ allows room correction and more Eq processing power which is a I feel is needed in many audio systems. Being that rooms are a serious problem area in these systems, the DEQ's room Eqing ability seem to be the answer. The DCX does not have perform these functions (except dimishing EQ abilities because limited processing power is available after crossover and slope have been selected.)

                        I am using the DEQ, DCX combo as a crossover for my 3 way main speakers. If I wanted to I guess I could get the EQ'd signal back into the yamaha receiver via the digital input. Right?

                        Steve
                        Per my revised connection chart above, you are right. Receiver--> DEQ--> DCX-->Amps-->Speakers-->MY EARS :P

                        Whether the DCX alone would have enough processing power depends on whether you are doing crossovers as well, and how much room EQ you want to try.
                        Do you mean regular Eq or automatic room Eq? The DCX does not do any automatic room EQ. This processing is housed in the DEQ. However if you mean regular EQ functions, this can be done in a limited manner in the DCX.

                        We are on the same sheet of music with regard to digitalization of signals in order to correct for room problems. The digitalization of the signal is much less repulsive when you factor that many rooms affect sound quality in a more negative manner than the digitalization.

                        No I really do not need to EQ the surrounds , but the center will be the next DIY project after the mains. It will be bi or tri amped, and EQ'd. The subwoofer is next in line after that. The surrounds are not on the list at present to be fiddled with.

                        I will read the tagmclarenaudio information. Thank you.

                        I am confused about if, when, and weather or not I will be using my Preout/Main In connections on my receiver for this arrangement? Remember I am going digital out of the Yamaha RX-V1 into the DEQ.




                        MI-II-CENTS
                        ______________
                        The TailWind Generation I

                        Comment

                        • Victor
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2002
                          • 338

                          #13
                          Guys,

                          I guess I should contribute my 2 cents in here and add to many valuable opinions that are floating around. I also have the DEQ and DCX combination and I must say they do work very well. I have them digitally connected with DEQ in the front for about 2 month now. I see 2 problems with the use of those boxes. One, as already mentioned, is the analog input level must be at least 6-8 volts. The other is overall volume control.

                          Here is what I do. I have a nice 2-channel pre-amp that I use to ‘boost’ up the signal into the DEQ up to about 8 Volts on the peaks or - 4 dB on display. This pre-amp also provides me with necessary analog input switching. Both DEQ and DCX are unity gain boxes so I have a rather high amplitude analog signal coming out from the DCX. This signal must be attenuated before the power amps. You must not use the DCX controls to turn down the signal level, because you will loose 1 bit resolution for every 6 dB of gain reduction. The digital level controls in the DCX are only suitable for the relative level adjustments. In my case I am driving my 3-way front channels with this set-up. Perhaps some of you remember that I built rather monstrous dipole speaker system. Here is the link to the thread with the pictures.

                          So I have about 5-7 volts coming out from the DCX. At this time I am hard at work building the 12-channel volume control using a bunch of motorized Alps pots. When I am done I’ll be able to use any universal remote to control any channel individually or a bunch of them together or all 12 channels simultaneously with a mute function to boot.
                          I am convinced that using an analog volume control between the DCX and the power amps is the only way to go.

                          By the way my rear channels, the Carver Platinum Mark IV, are also controlled by the second DCX unit. I never found it necessary to use RTA on the rear channels. The DEQ unit does RTA in the front and the result as Steve indicated is very good.

                          I found that it is not possible to fully use DCX2496 with my new dipole speakers. In fact my EQ chain for the front channels consists of DCX followed by an additional analog box. This box contains the 6 dB/oct dipole EQ for both my woofers and the midrange. My midrange is an array of four 10-inchers in the 14 inch baffle with 3 inch wings. It is crossed from 70 Hz to 500 Hz with L-R 4th order filters.

                          Anyway the baffle size dictates that the picking frequency is about 640 Hz. So I use a shelving low-pass from about 550 Hz down to about 20 Hz. This is about 5 octaves or 30 dB. The problem is that the DCX only has 15 dB of headroom. So there is no way to construct the filter I need. So I use analog circuit for this.

                          The problem with my dipole woofers is even more pronounced. I use Phoenix woofers with low Qtc Peerless drivers. So I need to first correct for the low Qtc and then add 6 dB/oct dipole correction. All this adds up to about 35 dB of gain at low frequencies. With DCX you can only do the Qtc correction but the dipole EQ cannot be accommodated. So I had to use an outboard analog circuit for that. In fact because of the headroom problems I first run the signal through a resistor divider to attenuate about 10 dB and only then the signal goes through the dipole EQ. This way I have no clipping issues and I use 24 Volts rails in my analog box.

                          In general my observations in regards to how transparent the DCX is are very positive. The DCX is very transparent indeed. I used to use an active analog crossover with my Carver Platinum Mark IV speakers. Those speakers are quite good specifically with active crossover. I used to use them as front channels before I built the huge 3-way speakers. So prior to relegating the Carvers to the rear duty, I run them through the DCX. I must say that at familiar SPL (read LOUD) levels I was very hard pressed to tell any difference at all relative to the old analog crossover. However, when I purposely reduced the input level down to about 2 Volts the sound turned for the worst, in fact the noise was nearly audible. If SPDI/F input is used on the DCX then the sound quality is as good as I expect the Carvers to sound.

                          Well, those published S/N numbers of 112 dB make the DCX or the DEQ inaudible for me. We are talking better then 18 bits of resolution here. I did some measurements of the DCX and I must say that it is definitely better then 16 bits with no A-weighting used. And this is as good as it gets in terms of currently available equipment regardless of the price. All this means that if you use a CD player with SPDI/F output you will loose nothing as the signal negotiates through the DCX or DEQ. If analog connection is used the same is also true if the input level is kept at least above 6 volts.

                          Vic

                          Comment

                          • Victor
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 338

                            #14
                            ...oups... double post...

                            Comment

                            • sfdoddsy
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2000
                              • 496

                              #15
                              My dbx doesn't have digital inputs, so I drive it from my prepro. It does have output limiters via jumpers though, so I increase the input levels that way. Playing my system full bore I get +6V input peaks which is what the dbx likes, although I am still pondering attenuators on my amps to get it even higher at lower levels.

                              But more importantly, you didn't say in your initial thread or this one how those dipole extravaganzas actually sound?

                              Everything you hoped for, I hope?

                              Cheers

                              Steve




                              Steve's DIY Dipoles
                              Steve's OB Journey

                              Comment

                              • Davey
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 355

                                #16
                                Dennis,

                                I hadn't considered using the dynamic EQ for a "dipole excursion limiter" but it's an interesting idea. I'm using dedicated analog active circuits for the dipole projects I've done. The DCX I use for other projects. Victor has put his finger on (very well) the limitations of this unit and some of things that can be done to optimize its performance.

                                I built a 6-channel VCA-based volume control for use on the DCX outputs which allows much higher internal signal levels. Currently, Phil Bamberg http://www.bamberglab.com is evaluting the preamp with some of his projects.

                                Cheers,

                                Davey.

                                Comment

                                • intelonetwo
                                  Member
                                  • Jan 2003
                                  • 48

                                  #17
                                  Wow
                                  Quite a response. I am happy to see so many people chimming in.

                                  Victor those speakers look impressive. I would love to hear how they sound. The bass must be heavenly.

                                  Do I still need to up the voltage when using the digital input and outputs?




                                  MI-II-CENTS
                                  ______________
                                  The TailWind Generation I

                                  Comment

                                  • Victor
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Apr 2002
                                    • 338

                                    #18
                                    Steve,

                                    How does it sound? Well, I only had system going a few times and I like what I hear. The lack of a master volume control at this time prevents me from having extensive listening tests. I used 3 Bryston BP-20 preamps as a kind of master volume control and it was very awkward.

                                    Now, the sound is definitely better then my Carver Platinum Mark IV. I need to dial in the delays properly and work on the speaker placement. But the sound seems to fill the room completely and it seems that it is not coming from any specific place. It sounds a lot like the life orchestra in a sense that I can place certain sounds in between speakers, which is, I think, a good thing. I am not what you would call a ‘Golden Ear’, - far from it. I think strength of the system is its outstanding clarity, which is most likely due to its low THD.

                                    Was it all what I hoped for? I can’t really say, I wanted an improvement on my Carvers, - I got that. Also, I had a chance to hear a WATT system at the local hi-end dealer; I was told that it was a $100K+ system. It did sound very good, but, I tell you, that after hearing my dipoles I was not all that impressed with the WATTs. Particularly the WATT system had a monstrous sub with a single 15-inch driver in what appeared to be a sealed cabinet. It did shake the entire studio, but my Phoenix Woofers, and I have 2 of them per side for a total of 4, did sound much cleaner to me and overall noticeably better, although not as laud as that WATT sub and perhaps not as deep, but we are splitting hears here. So I guess I must have done something right.

                                    In retrospect I should have used 6 drivers in the midrange array instead of 4 and I should have made that midrange to be a free standing structure instead of a subsection on top of the woofers. This way the line source behavior of the midrange would more closely resemble the RD-75, but had I done that, my wife would have most definitely hired someone to do me in. So compromises, compromises…

                                    Anyway I also need to work on crossover points a bit more, so I shall report once the volume control is ready and installed. At the rate I am going it will take another month or two.

                                    Vic

                                    Comment

                                    • Victor
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Apr 2002
                                      • 338

                                      #19
                                      intelonetwo

                                      If you are using digital input, you have no control over the voltage levels. Voltage level is only relevant if you use analog inputs. Use of digital input is preferable simply because you bypass the A/D converter and all the bits destined for the processing arrive intact. In the case of a common CD player with SPDI/F output it is 16 bits.

                                      Those AKM 24-bit converters that DCX and DEQ are using are quite good, so much so that I did not see any difference in THD regardless of the type of the input, - analog or digital. Mind you, my capability to measure the THD is a bit crude, but what I see is an indication of a very good electrical performents on the part of Behringer boxes.

                                      I am very tempted to get inside the DCX box with the soldering iron and improve its analog section. I also would want to dispense with its switching power supply and substitute a low noise linear circuit in its place. Does anyone know how to get the schematics of DCX2496?

                                      Vic

                                      Comment

                                      • sfdoddsy
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Sep 2000
                                        • 496

                                        #20
                                        Intelonetwo,

                                        Another thing to be aware of if you go the route Victor has mentioned and feed a digital input to the DEQ then DCX and then volume control, is that you will only have volume control for two channel CD. I don't think your receiver outputs a digital signal for DD/DTS and it certainly won't for DVD-A and SACD. In any case the volume control here won't work for your surrounds, your center or your sub.

                                        Cheers

                                        Steve




                                        Steve's DIY Dipoles
                                        Steve's OB Journey

                                        Comment

                                        • Dennis H
                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2002
                                          • 3791

                                          #21
                                          Steve, I didn't know the dbx's had a dynamic EQ like the Behringers. I thought they just had standard compressors and limiters which reduce all frequencies equally on loud passages. The Behringer thing is a bit of a different beast. You define your EQ, say a shelving low cut, and then you define at what volume and how fast the thing fades in. As it engages on loud passages, it wouldn't cut anything above say 40Hz but it would keep the 20Hz stuff from going above a certain level. Nice for HT or Telarc cannons. :LOL:

                                          Comment

                                          • intelonetwo
                                            Member
                                            • Jan 2003
                                            • 48

                                            #22
                                            Ok,
                                            To clarify. At the present time I will be using the DEQ to get automatic room Eq, only until my DIY speakers are complete. It will be configured as such:
                                            Yamaha --> DEQ -->Yamaha (spdi/f)

                                            This will allow me to EQ the signal and send it back to the Yamaha.

                                            Steve
                                            After the DIY speakers are ready, what and how many volume controls will I need to operate this unit?

                                            Willl and how will my DD/DTS, SACD, DVD-Audio be played through my Yamaha, DEQ system? Is this simply a routing issue or do I need a 6-7 channel volume control? Will a Outlaw Audio ICBM work correctly, how about a Sony TA-P9000ES or will a Chase Technologies RLC-1 2-channel preamp with remote control work?




                                            MI-II-CENTS
                                            ______________
                                            The TailWind Generation I

                                            Comment

                                            • Dennis H
                                              Ultra Senior Member
                                              • Aug 2002
                                              • 3791

                                              #23
                                              Yamaha --> DEQ -->Yamaha (spdi/f)
                                              As others have said, that will only work for stereo CD sources. If you want to do multichannel or anything other than CD forget using the digital out of the Yamaha or feeding it back into the Yamaha. You're just going to have to make the best of an extra A/D conversion. Once it's out of the Yamaha in analog form, it's out for good and you deal with it from there.

                                              Comment

                                              • intelonetwo
                                                Member
                                                • Jan 2003
                                                • 48

                                                #24
                                                DennisH
                                                When using the analog outputs of the Yamaha to go into the DEQ. How do I get the signal back into the Yamaha?




                                                MI-II-CENTS
                                                ______________
                                                The TailWind Generation I

                                                Comment

                                                • sfdoddsy
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Sep 2000
                                                  • 496

                                                  #25
                                                  Do you have separate power amps yet? I'm afraid you will need them when you finish your DIY speakers if you bi or tri amp them.

                                                  In the meantime, the easiest routing for you would be to use the main outs of your Yamaha, to the analog ins in the DEQ and then to the main ins of your Yamaha.

                                                  Alternatively, you could probably put the EQ into one the tape loops, but I'm not sure exactly how this is done on the Yamaha.

                                                  Dennis,

                                                  You're right that the dbx doesn't have the dynamic EQ. It looks very interesting though, kind of like a volume dependent high pass, or alternatively a volume dependent loudness switch.

                                                  Steve




                                                  Steve's DIY Dipoles
                                                  Steve's OB Journey

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Dennis H
                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                    • 3791

                                                    #26
                                                    How do I get the signal back into the Yamaha?
                                                    Well, if the Yamaha has "staples" connecting the preamp and power amps for certain channels, you can pull those and connect an EQ between the pre and power parts. Just pretend those power amp channels are in a separate box. Otherwise, you can't. Most receivers aren't really set up for external EQ's and you'll end up wasting some power amp channels.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • sfdoddsy
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Sep 2000
                                                      • 496

                                                      #27
                                                      The Yamaha does have main and center main ins.

                                                      As for the volume control question, depends how you are running the system. If you have triamped main speakers, and a biamped center, plus a sub and two surrounds, then you have 11 amps which need their volume controlled.

                                                      You could either do it from the Yamaha, or at the power amps the way Davey and Victor have suggested.

                                                      I have, sad to say, exactly that setup, and I do volume control from my prepro, with attenuators on power amps.

                                                      It's just a bit easier to use.

                                                      Cheers

                                                      Steve




                                                      Steve's DIY Dipoles
                                                      Steve's OB Journey

                                                      Comment

                                                      • intelonetwo
                                                        Member
                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                        • 48

                                                        #28
                                                        Steve
                                                        I have not purchased the separate amplifier yet. But when I do it will be a 6-channel amplifier. I will be using them when I finish my DIY speakers which will be tri-amped.

                                                        Ok, even though I do not have a separate amplifier for the pre-outs, I can input the signal into the Yamaha. In the Yamaha RX-V1 manual, its say's that when the Preout's are utilized, the ampiifiers for the corresponding channels will be shut off.

                                                        Ok, let me clarify. I only want to use the DEQ, and DCX for the front Left and Right main speakers. How do I get a DTS/DD, SACD, DVD-A signal to play through the RX-V1?

                                                        Dennis
                                                        I would not be removing any staples, so I guess that option is out of the question. Since my receiver has preout/main in's to accomodate external Eq's.

                                                        You could either do it from the Yamaha, or at the power amps the way Davey and Victor have suggested.
                                                        So I can use the Volume Control from the Yamaha for the left and right speakers to get a DTS/DD, SACD, DVD-Audio, etc. to my RX-V1?




                                                        MI-II-CENTS
                                                        ______________
                                                        The TailWind Generation I

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Dennis H
                                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                                          • Aug 2002
                                                          • 3791

                                                          #29
                                                          Just to be a contrarian, speaking from theory only, not from experience -- yeah, in a perfect world, your volume attenuators would be after the digital EQ. BUT.... if you can really get a good S/N ratio out of the digital EQ, as Victor's measurements indicate, there should be nothing wrong with attenuating the analog signal before the EQ, with the preamp or prepro. Even at reduced volumes, you should still have sufficient dynamic range that the quietest recorded sounds would stay well above the analog noise floor. That's all you really need, isn't it?

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Victor
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Apr 2002
                                                            • 338

                                                            #30
                                                            Intelonetwo,

                                                            I have gone through the exercise of figuring out the DVD-A or SACD hook up in the context of DIY 3-way speakers all around while using at least 2 and possibly 3 DCX2496 to EQ all channels. After all that was my Grand Plan about 2 years ago. Naturally at the time I was contemplating the monstrous multi-channel analog crossover, but I digress…

                                                            First of all, I must emphasize that there is only one way to get the best ‘sound’ out of any Digital Box, such as Behringer or DBX or Minidrive, etc., and that is to ensure that the input voltage is as expected for the maximum S/N. Believe me, I used to design A/D and D/A converters among other things for a living, while working for Analog Devices in Boston, MA and I know that unless you do that, the noise floor will ‘eat’ up more bits then you are willing to part with.

                                                            Second thing that we must understand here is that those Digital Boxes were never designed for the ‘nuts’ like us. They were intended for professional applications; hence the input voltage levels are expected to be around 20 dB. It has to do with the fact that in the regular pro installation there are literally miles of wire and so there is an appreciable signal loss present. This is the reason for the balanced interconnects and high input levels.

                                                            In some cases such as in DEQ2496 there is a switch in the back of the box that will allow you to run the input at lower level, which is I think 12 dB or so. There is an internal amplifier that gets put in the signal path when this switch is activated and that amplifier will boost the input. The output will still be at near 20 dB level in this case.

                                                            So with this in mind I must respectfully disagree with Dennis. He says,

                                                            …if you can really get a good S/N ratio out of the digital EQ, as Victor's measurements indicate, there should be nothing wrong with attenuating the analog signal before the EQ, with the preamp or prepro. Even at reduced volumes, you should still have sufficient dynamic range…
                                                            No, any sufficient attenuation before the Digital Box will necessarily reduce the S/N and this may be quite audible. In order to use the Power Amps directly after the Digital Box that attenuation will have to be heavy, as most commercial Power Amps are designed to expect at the input 1-2 Volts at the most for the maximum output.

                                                            I am afraid that there is no other solution but to have a purpose built multi-channel attenuator and place it immediately AFTER the DCX and before the power amps. Here is an example of such attenuator



                                                            Now to the problem at hand. What do we do with DVD-A signals and our DIY 3-way speakers? First I would forget about using the volume control facility in the Yamaha receiver you have. Reason being that you only get 2-chennels this way.

                                                            Steve did the counting and he is correct that you will need possibly 15 attenuator channels. If you look at the link above you will see that this can be accomplished with at most 3 of those volume controls. The cost will be near $1000. Is this too much? Maybe, and then again maybe not…I think that design uses VCA-type circuitry and I am not sure that this is the best way to go on purely engineering grounds. I think that VCA have higher distortion then what I am willing to tolerate, also the distortion may change rather dramatically with frequency. That is not always true as I recall that Analog Devices makes some very linear VCA. Anyway, there is a way to make a very good level controller with VCA, but I do not know how good the one I am linking to is, since no specs are published. I prefer using good potentiometers or step-attenuators.

                                                            You can buy a 6-channel pre-amp and use it as an attenuator. This will set you back about $1500-2500 and you will barely have enough channels. Or…

                                                            You can go DIY here and make an excellent remotely controlled volume control with the help of

                                                            As a woman, your back and joints can go through some pretty difficult things, and that includes childbirth in some cases. Learn how chiropractors can help.


                                                            But it will cost you nearly a $1000 just as well if not more once you count all the channels you need. It will also be monstrous in size.

                                                            I prefer motorized potentiometers from Alps. Here is the link to a rather weird but very affordable potentiometer that is suitable for the task at hand



                                                            Look for the potentiometer section and you will see a $5.95 motorized pot from Apls. It is not their best pot, as its elements are only 16 mm, but it is not bad for the application. Many high-end units use that pot. You will need at least 7 of those pots. There is a way to electrically control those pots. But even if you use them manually, still it is easy to put them in the box, wire them up and you will have a very inexpensive and very high-quality post EQ attenuator. The control of such multi-channel attenuator will be rather cumbersome, but it will be usable. If you go with electronic control for the motors then there is no problem.

                                                            I am building such attenuator, but with a much better quality motorized 4-gang pots. I will have complete electronic control over each individual potentiometer or all of them at once. If you are interested in rolling your own ‘talk’ to me and I will share some ideas with you.

                                                            Here is my signal chain that works for multi-channel audio decoding.

                                                            Sources: CD-Player, SACD Player, HTPC with 7 channel analog output, Satellite receiver, X-box.
                                                            For the analog connection I have: 2-channel analog preamp that does source selection and signal boost for the input to the digital box, followed by DEQ, followed by DCX (DEQ and DCX are digital connected) followed by an analog post EQ box, followed by an attenuator box, followed by 3 stereo amps followed by 3-way front speakers.

                                                            My CD player uses digital (SPDI/F connection directly to DEQ)

                                                            My rear speakers have identical set-up, but without the DEQ and post EQ analog box.
                                                            My center speaker has its own internal passive cross-over, so I only need a pre-amp for it.

                                                            In the end, I use three stereo analog pre-amps, six 600 watt (8-ohm) stereo amps, two DCX2496, one DEQ2496, two DIY boxes (20 channel remotely controlled level controller which is being built and post EQ electronics for front speakers)

                                                            The shear number of interconnects (all DIY) is staggering, as it scares both the domestic animals and my wife. Does anyone know of a good place to get a cheap equipment rack, size HUGE?

                                                            Well I hope this description is helpful, because you are looking at something like what I have in the end of your journey and, trust me, there is no way around it, unless you abandon the idea of using Digital Boxes.

                                                            Regards,
                                                            Victor

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Davey
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Jan 2003
                                                              • 355

                                                              #31
                                                              Victor,

                                                              I'd give the VCA's a try before I spent big money on an alternative. You might find them perfectly acceptable....I did. Here's what I built for very cheap:



                                                              Easily expandable to support any number of channels and relative adjustments.

                                                              There are some other options as well. Check the data sheet for Analog SSM2160.

                                                              Cheers,

                                                              Davey.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • intelonetwo
                                                                Member
                                                                • Jan 2003
                                                                • 48

                                                                #32
                                                                Well
                                                                It seems that I may have to abandon the whole digital EQ thing. It is evident now that I will need a couple of other pieces of equipment to ensure this option works properly. Unfortuneatly, I have already overextended my budget for this project with the purchase of the DEQ and DCX.

                                                                Unfortuneatly I purchased the DEQ and DCX before I knew how they needed to be connected to my system. I leaped before I looked. I can return the DEQ, however I can not return the DCX, because I failed to look at the fine print from the company I purchased the DCX from, which has a no refund policy, only exchange or store credit.

                                                                Anybody looking for a brand new in the box Behringer UltraDrive Pro DCX 24/96----$310 takes it?




                                                                MI-II-CENTS
                                                                ______________
                                                                The TailWind Generation I

                                                                Comment

                                                                • sfdoddsy
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Sep 2000
                                                                  • 496

                                                                  #33
                                                                  No no no. Don't get discouraged. And don't return straight away.

                                                                  Some of the stuff we are are suggesting is 'best practice'. I agree theoretically with Victor, however I do use the straight out volume from receiver you would start with.

                                                                  The overall question needs to be will you get better sound from the simple hookup, using the EQs, than you would without them. In my experience you will. The slight resolution losses are more than made for by the enormous advantages of room correction.

                                                                  Dwarfed, in fact.

                                                                  Do a simple test. Connect the DEQ, run the room correction, and then switch it in and out. In my experience the differences will be obvious.

                                                                  I fear we have scared you off a very sensible purchase. I'd use the volume control stuff etc to tweak to the max. I think your system will be better without the tweaks, and even better with it.

                                                                  The first time I use a digital EQ I broke all these rules, and still improved the sound.

                                                                  Go for it.

                                                                  Steve




                                                                  Steve's DIY Dipoles
                                                                  Steve's OB Journey

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Victor
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Apr 2002
                                                                    • 338

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Davey,

                                                                    I must admit that using a VCA based level control is a very elegant solution particularly when it comes to multi-channel environment. Naturally, channel to channel tracking is perfect. It is also a very cost effective solution and it lends itself nicely for the remote control option. So in the end, you can have a remotely controlled volume control with no channel variations and at the low cost. So what is missing from this picture?

                                                                    Well until the debut of AD2018T in an ‘E’ grade the electrical behavior of all VCA’s was suboptimal for audio applications. Trimming or compensation the part along would prevent you from ever considering it. AD2018T has a clever adaptive scheme that looks a lot like a Gilbert cell with a feedback so it adjusts itself as the gain of the circuit changes. Very nice! Also the THD+N is kept low courtesy of the laser trimming of the resistors that set the gain. All those wonderful things are the specialty of Analog Devices engineering, laser trimming is particularly their claim to fame. Just look at the 20-bit ladder D/A they still make. Laser trimming at its best!

                                                                    I agree that this part is quite suitable for Hi-Fi application in general, but I would still not use it for my audio rig. My objections are not based on the common and rather tiring “I can hear differences’ outcry. I am convinced that this part is quote transparent that my 42-year old ears will not be ‘insulted’. I object to it on purely engineering or conceptual grounds. It is just I can have a better solution for about the same amount of money.

                                                                    Let’s look at the AD2018T specs. The THD+N is extremely dependent on a given gain. While at low gains it is respectable at 0.01% all the way up to 8 kHz and rising to 0.2% at 20 kHz, - the picture is very different at higher gains. When the gain approaches 15-20 db which is not all that uncommon, the THD+N skyrockets into the tube-amp neighborhood of about 0.1% at 20 kHz. Can you hear that? Most definitely not, but my problem is that I KNOW it.

                                                                    Another problem is that the amplitude of the input signal must be kept low for the THD+N to be low. This is evident from the internal architecture of AD2018 with all those current controlled sources. At high gains of approaching 20 dB we are talking about 0.5 Volt at most here and once the level rises to 1Volts, the THD+N again takes off like a Space Shuttle into the 0.1% and higher territory.

                                                                    In general as long as the gain is kept at about 0 dB level the THD+N is excellent, but as the signal gets boosted up to 20 dB or attenuated down to -40 dB the THD+N increases dramatically into more then 0.1% at -50 dB. This increase is monotonic, i.e. it looks almost linear.

                                                                    Finally, looking at the noise density it is evident that this part was never designed to resolve the 16 bit signal. The noise is much higher then the op-amps we use for audio application.

                                                                    Now I do not mean to criticize this part. On the contrary this is the best VCA currently available. However, in my opinion it is more suitable for the professional applications where the distortion and linearity take the very back seat, and reliability, tracking and consistency is of paramount importance, - this part delivers for the pro market.

                                                                    I am convinced that under nearly all conditions we will not ‘hear’ this part sounding bad through our speakers. Human hearing is flowed and frankly I cannot hear anything above 16.5 kHz anyway, so then the 20 kHz specs should not bother me. However, it is the engineer in me that objects to using anything that does not resolve the 16-bits that are still coming from my CD Player. So I will stick with nice Alps pots or relay driven step-attenuators in spite of the fact that I will never hear the differences.

                                                                    Regards,
                                                                    Victor

                                                                    P.S. The SSM 2160 is based on SSM2018.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Victor
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Apr 2002
                                                                      • 338

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Steve,

                                                                      I have a question for you. I know that you are using the DBX260 to EQ your ‘Bob’ and I must say that your ‘Bob’ is as good as they come, - congrats! Looking at the Bob’s baffle I see that the width of the midrange section is 33 cm. That would mean that the peak frequency is about 500 Hz. Assuming that the midrange is crossed to the woofers at 100 Hz, the EQ requirement is from about 450 Hz down to let’s say 30-40 Hz. Is that right?

                                                                      So in order to EQ the midrange you will need a 6 dB/oct shelving low-pass spanning about 4 octaves or 24 dB. Looking at DBX260 software I noticed that available shelving filters only extend up to 12 dB or is it 15 dB? In any case it is not enough to EQ the Bob’s midrange or so it seems to me.

                                                                      On your site you indicate that “…The mids have a 12dB low shelf of 6dB octave at 100 Hz, plus a parametric 6dB boost at 20Hz with a Q of 1…” I must admit I do not understand that. Are you saying that your mid EQ starts at 100 Hz with a gain of 12 dB and goes down in amplitude from there? It seems that the shelving low-pass should start at the higher frequency closer to the dipole peak of 500 Hz.

                                                                      Well, my question is, - how do you do it? How do you set up the EQ for your midrange?

                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                      Victor

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Dennis H
                                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                        • 3791

                                                                        #36
                                                                        No, any sufficient attenuation before the Digital Box will necessarily reduce the S/N and this may be quite audible. In order to use the Power Amps directly after the Digital Box that attenuation will have to be heavy, as most commercial Power Amps are designed to expect at the input 1-2 Volts at the most for the maximum output.
                                                                        Victor, I think you misunderstood me. I'm assuming you would set up your gain structure so everything clips at about the same time. That most likely means a fixed attenuator between the EQ and the power amp and that would set the noise floor. It also assumes you have enough voltage available from your preamp to drive the EQ to full scale. So, now the noise is at a constant and presumably acceptable (inaudible) level. The noise won't increase if you turn down the volume before the EQ, the signal just decreases. The noise should remain inaudible at all times.

                                                                        Are you saying that it's impossible to get an acceptably low noise floor when everything is running at "full volume?" Can you hear it during a silent passage?

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Dennis H
                                                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                                                          • Aug 2002
                                                                          • 3791

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Assuming that the midrange is crossed to the woofers at 100 Hz, the EQ requirement is from about 450 Hz down to let’s say 30-40 Hz. Is that right?
                                                                          Just down to 100 Hz or about 2 octaves, I believe. Then you would use a 3rd order highpass filter instead of a 4th order. The sum of the filter plus the dipole rolloff would be 4th order acoustic. There's no point in boosting the signal and then turning around and cutting it again.

                                                                          About the corner frequency of the shelving filter, these gizmos seem to vary by brand. Some call out the "starting" frequency (where it leaves base line) and some call out the "ending" frequency (where it reaches the shelf) so you need to double check how they work.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Dennis H
                                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                                            • Aug 2002
                                                                            • 3791

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Hey I12,

                                                                            I agree with Steve that our discussions of the fine points are making this seem harder than it is. Here's how I'd do it for the first go around on a triamped system. You can improve it later if you want to get that last 1% of performance.

                                                                            Yamaha controls the volume
                                                                            Analog out of the Yamaha
                                                                            Standard cable
                                                                            DEQ (optional) for auto EQ
                                                                            Digital out of the DEQ
                                                                            AES/EBU cable
                                                                            DCX for crossover and EQ
                                                                            Analog out of the DCX
                                                                            Custom cable with a resistor in line to reduce the signal
                                                                            Power amp

                                                                            Actually, for a first try, just pull the staples on the back of the receiver and stick the DEQ between those same connectors with a couple of cables. Go into the menus of the DEQ and make sure it's set up for consumer signal levels.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • intelonetwo
                                                                              Member
                                                                              • Jan 2003
                                                                              • 48

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Steve
                                                                              Thanks for the encouragment. I may keep the DEQ to do room correction, but I am confused about how I connect it to my Yamaha RX-V1.

                                                                              How will I get the Room corrected (Eq'd) signal back into the RX-V1 when using DTS/DD, SACD, DVD-A? I know earlier in the post the DTS/DD, SACD, DVD-A signals were brought up as a not being able to be dealt with by the DEQ with the way I wanted to route everything.

                                                                              Steve
                                                                              Another thing to be aware of if you go the route Victor has mentioned and feed a digital input to the DEQ then DCX and then volume control, is that you will only have volume control for two channel CD. I don't think your receiver outputs a digital signal for DD/DTS and it certainly won't for DVD-A and SACD.
                                                                              DennisH
                                                                              As others have said, that will only work for stereo CD sources. If you want to do multichannel or anything other than CD forget using the digital out of the Yamaha or feeding it back into the Yamaha. You're just going to have to make the best of an extra A/D conversion. Once it's out of the Yamaha in analog form, it's out for good and you deal with it from there.
                                                                              I am probably confused about what is meant by 2-channel stereo? I only want to Room Eq and/or Eq the 2 front speakers. Am I to understand that weather or not the signals are DTS/DD, SACD, or DVD-A coming out of the front channels I will get the Eq's sound? I do have a multichannel set up however I do not care to do any processing for them with the DEQ. ???? Lost. :?

                                                                              I have tenatively revised how I will power my DIY 3-Ways. Each "bass" module features dual 8" Peerless CSX Woofers being powered by a A/D/S subwoofer amplifer (125 watts) with HF control (50-200 hz). The "Head" module will utilize passive 2-way crossover and be driven by the RX-V1. The A/D/S Ampifier will be sent through the RX-V1 via the dual subwoofer outputs. The A/D/S subwoofer amplifier may not make the cut, but at $125 a pair they are a sweet deal. They feature class A/B ampification and all the standard subwofer amplifier features.

                                                                              I read the TagMclaren article the other day and it spoke of problems with Room Correction systems. A prominent one being the inability of less advanced correction systems to accurately correct at a specific location. If I remember correctly the problem was that at higher frequencies (20K) movements of even 1 cm from the measured location will produce drastic differences in sound quality.

                                                                              According to the Audio Engineering Society and Brian Moore (J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 45) and supported by the Fletcher studies (Triangle Speaker (France)) the sensitivity curve of the human ear is roughly bell-shaped, with its dominant response lying in the frequency range between 800 Hz and 4 kHz.


                                                                              It would seem to me that Steve is correct that only the frequencies below 250 hz need to be dealt with by some form of correction for standing waves, and other such bass derived problems.

                                                                              In that case, could a Behringer Feedback Destroyer solve those types of problems for the front mains?




                                                                              MI-II-CENTS
                                                                              ______________
                                                                              The TailWind Generation I

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • intelonetwo
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Jan 2003
                                                                                • 48

                                                                                #40
                                                                                DennisH
                                                                                Thank you for the encouragement. I am not a real technical guy when it comes to this stuff. Many of you guys here are, and that is great, because it allows me a non-technical guys to read, and get feedback as well as information necessary to see a project through to completion. Thanks.

                                                                                I do believe, however that I will not (for financial reasons) be triamping the 3-DIY speakers at the present time. I may stay with the DEQ though to provide the Room Correction and EQ functions necceary.

                                                                                Not triamping should make this whole thing a little easier. Below is a revised routing list.

                                                                                Yamaha controls the volume
                                                                                Analog out (Preout) of the RX-V1
                                                                                Standard cable
                                                                                DEQ for auto EQ
                                                                                Analog out of the DEQ back into the RX-V1 (Main In)

                                                                                I do have a question regarding using the Preout/Main In connections. My RX-V1 shuts down the amplifiers when the Preout connection is used. How then will I receive power to them if the DEQ is occupying this connection?

                                                                                And once again. Please do not stone me. What will come of the DTS/DD, SACD, DVD-Audio signals. Here is the bottom line... In this configuration when I play a SACD disc or watch a DVD movie (DTS/DD) will I be hearing the Room Corrected/Eq sound through the front 2 speakers. YES, YES, YES. Finaly, I think I posted the question clearly as to not confuse everyone. :LOL:




                                                                                MI-II-CENTS
                                                                                ______________
                                                                                The TailWind Generation I

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • intelonetwo
                                                                                  Member
                                                                                  • Jan 2003
                                                                                  • 48

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  DennisH
                                                                                  Actually, for a first try, just pull the staples on the back of the receiver and stick the DEQ between those same connectors with a couple of cables. Go into the menus of the DEQ and make sure it's set up for consumer signal levels.
                                                                                  For the first try, do you mean just using the DEQ in the chain, without the DCX?

                                                                                  The solution would sound like this? Correct?
                                                                                  If you want to use an EQ with a receiver, you need to have pre-outs and pre-ins that can work together. For receivers with pre-ins, usually only the mains have the pre-outs and pre-ins (called main-ins) arranged so you can route the pre-outs back to the main-ins without causing oscillation. You will find two U-shaped pins that connect the pre-outs and main-ins on the back of the receiver. Pull these out and store them safely somewhere. Then, connect the pre-outs for the front left/right to the inputs on your EQ, and the outputs of the EQ back to the main-ins for the front left/right. This will let you use the EQ in all receiver modes.
                                                                                  Alternatively, I could use the spdi/f digital output of the DVD Player to the digital input of the DEQ, and the digital output of the DEQ to the DVD Input on the RX-V1 to get and get Room Correction, and still receive DTS/DD, DVD-A, SACD signals.

                                                                                  I only have two sources in my system a DVD Player and a Satellite receiver. I do not care to process the Satellite signal.




                                                                                  MI-II-CENTS
                                                                                  ______________
                                                                                  The TailWind Generation I

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Dennis H
                                                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                    • Aug 2002
                                                                                    • 3791

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    That last quoted part is exactly how you do it. The staple thingies are just very short cables that hook the preamp to the power amp. So you replace them with a couple of longer cables that have an EQ in the middle. That will work for any source or format your receiver can play.

                                                                                    Digital connections only work for CDs. CDs use the same digital format as the Behringer but the Behringer can't decode DVD digital formats like Dolby and DTS.

                                                                                    DVD-A and SACD aren't transmitted over the player's digital line at all. You need (6) analog cables from the player to the receiver to listen to those formats.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • sfdoddsy
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Sep 2000
                                                                                      • 496

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by intelonetwo
                                                                                      DennisH

                                                                                      Yamaha controls the volume
                                                                                      Analog out (Preout) of the RX-V1
                                                                                      Standard cable
                                                                                      DEQ for auto EQ
                                                                                      Analog out of the DEQ back into the RX-V1 (Main In)

                                                                                      I do have a question regarding using the Preout/Main In connections. My RX-V1 shuts down the amplifiers when the Preout connection is used. How then will I receive power to them if the DEQ is occupying this connection?
                                                                                      Yep, that's how you do it, except you use the two RCA connectors labeled 'Main Out' to the the EQ, then back to the two RCA connectors labeled 'Main In'. You won't lose power.

                                                                                      Victor,

                                                                                      Sorry, the website is fuzzy and I should fix it.

                                                                                      Unfortunately the dbx won't let me lay shelving filters over other shelving filters, so I improvise a bit.

                                                                                      Currently, I have a 12dB shelving filter based at 100Hz, 6 dB octave, which EQs for the fall from 400 or so down. Then I have a parametric filter at 20Hz, Q.2 with a gain of 8dB to maintain the boost below the crossover point, which is 100Hz LR4.

                                                                                      The bass is also not quite as per theory. I have a shelving filter at 76Hz, 12 dB boost, 6dB per octave, then another parametric at 20Hz, 6dB boost Q.726. This is less than should be required, but my listening seat is closer to the rear wall than I would like, which boosts the bass.

                                                                                      I also do a global - 6 dB shelf at 150Hz for the transition between free air and floor boost bass, plus the required notches for the drivers.

                                                                                      Then, since I have the technology, I EQ the bass below 200Hz or so, mainly a big room mode at 50Hz, plus some little tweaks at 100, 150 and 30.

                                                                                      And, I must confess, I do a little goose at 20Hz just cos I like really deep bass.

                                                                                      To top all that off, if I am in a mood to really piss off my neighbours I have a preset programmed with a 30Hz crossover to my sub which I use when playing high volume organ music or movies.


                                                                                      Cheers

                                                                                      Steve




                                                                                      Steve's DIY Dipoles
                                                                                      Steve's OB Journey

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • intelonetwo
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                                        • 48

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Thank god I finally got that taken care of. Thank guys for the persitent help.

                                                                                        Ok now I am going to through you a monkey wrench.

                                                                                        When using the 6.1 inputs on the RX-V1 for SACD, DVD-A does the signal continue to be routed through the DEQ, then to the RX-V1? Or does the DVD Player exclusively handle this task and everything including the DEQ is bypassed? If the latter is true, then I guess the next obvious question is how to Room Eq for SACD, and DVD-A?




                                                                                        MI-II-CENTS
                                                                                        ______________
                                                                                        The TailWind Generation I

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • sfdoddsy
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Sep 2000
                                                                                          • 496

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          If you use the Main Out - DEQ - Main In as suggested, then the front L&R of all sources (CD, Sat, DD, DTS, SACD and DVD-A) will go through the EQ.

                                                                                          Steve




                                                                                          Steve's DIY Dipoles
                                                                                          Steve's OB Journey

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          Working...
                                                                                          😀
                                                                                          😂
                                                                                          🥰
                                                                                          😘
                                                                                          🤢
                                                                                          😎
                                                                                          😞
                                                                                          😡
                                                                                          👍
                                                                                          👎
                                                                                          Searching...Please wait.
                                                                                          An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                                          Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                          An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                                          Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                                          An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                                          There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                                          Search Result for "|||"