Veneer

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  • Hanhns
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2003
    • 2

    Veneer

    Hi Jon,

    I have been following your post for a bit and they look beautiful. I have a couple of questions for you:

    1.) I have had some luck with veneer using a vaccum press with a single piece of wood in it at a time. The problem with putting a full speaker cabinet in a vaccum press is that it would be crushed with the pressure of the press. I beleive it is somewhere to the effect of 10,000 pounds of pressure per square inch. That would even crush the heavy duty monsters you made unless the cavity of the cabinet was filled. My problem is that using only one piece of wood at a time limits the type of joint you can make on the cabinet. Pretty much you are stuck to using a mitre joint so that the two face veneers show. To make a cabinet that slants back as yours do requires some interesting angle for a mitre.

    I have not had any luck with using clamps or contact cement with veneer. The issue that I run into is that the venner is "tacked" on like a cheap looking laminiate. The difference with the vaccuum press is that it has so much pressure the glue seaps into the substrate and veneer almost fusing the two together giving it that "real wood" look.
    So my question, after that long winded explanation is, do you know of a way to have the veneer "fuse" to the wood. Could you explain the press that you are looking at building that is simialar to the one at Avalon? Sorry this post is so long but I do have one more question and then I promise I will leave you alone,
    Could you explain how you created the front baffle angle cuts a little bit more?

    Anyway, I think your doing a great job, keep up the good work.
  • PMazz
    Senior Member
    • May 2001
    • 861

    #2
    If I may....

    Vacuum bag presses work in the range of ~2000 lbs/sq foot. They won't even come close to affecting a speaker enclosure, let alone the tank that Jon built.

    I use contact cement, but always use paper, or wood backed veneer (NBL). I have also used the iron-on method for some smaller stuff (like a speaker enclosure) with great success. The veneer will lay flatter, especially if you're using thin 10 mil, using the hot iron, and really helps if you need to do critical positioning before sticking.

    Pete
    Birth of a Media Center

    Comment

    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15259

      #3
      Welcome comments, Pete.

      First, let me say that I am not in my own eyes any kind of expert or trained person in woodworking- I'm an EE by profession, and I'd say I'm a lot handier with a PCB CAD program or a soldering iron than in the wood shop. However, I have worked in a small production shop for speakers, only wood finished (vinyl? Ughh!) back in the early 70's, and I've built a lot of things since then, including somewhat more complicated projects like AR LST clones. That kind of dates me, that I even know what an AR LST is! In the likelihood that you don't, here's a pic.

      Click image for larger version

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      Vacuum presses are most often used for veneering just boards or other small piece, PRIOR to assembly of the finished item. The maximum pressure a vacuum press can exert at sea level is about 14 lB/in2. Avalon uses various pnuematic presses, see pic, custom to the requirements of whether they're doing a top, side, or whatever.

      Image not available

      While I've used contact cement quite successfully for laminate veneering, I don't use it for wood; I've mostly used alphiatic resin glues, sometimes with heat, though I've experimented on occasion with some of the 3M spray on adhesives. For the more exotic woods like rosewood, teak, etc, I think Unibond is the way to go. Personally, I prefer the results from solid wood veneers over paper backed, but they do take more care to work with.

      There are other issues- one being the interface between the cabinet and the veneer. So called "Paper backed" veneer takes care of this problem inherently, but with solid wood veneers and hard glues, even near microsopic "movement" in the cabinet joints, such as would occur in the interface between the side walls and front panel will cause problems (cracks in the veneer and finish); the cabinet clones in an Avalon style produced in Taiwan seem to all suffer from this. You have to use an interface material such as commonly used in fine furniture veneering. I know what it is, but I can't tell.... but if you think about it a little, you'll come up with an obvious solution.

      In my experience, the key to getting a good looking result with solid wood veneers is having very high surface smoothness prior to veneering (ready for a high grade paint job, for example), and if needed pre-flattening the veneer, using a combination of glycerin and water to wet it down, then drying in a press using white craft paper. (Did I ever mention in any thread that building Avalong clone cabinets is EXTREMELY labor intensive and time consuming? :LOL: )


      My own concept for a veneer press is mechanical, using neoprene rubber on an composite MDF board reinforced with sheet aluminum and angle stock. We'll see how it works.

      A good resource for the hobbyist for veneers, supplies, etc., is Joe Woodworker.


      joe woodworker wood tools projects veneer veneering vacuum press glue project tools tutorial burl transtint dye cherry teak walnut woodworking



      I think a good analogy is that veneering is like cooking; there are a lot of different recipes and ways to get to the end results you desire; once one finds a recipe that works for you, you tend to stick with it, maybe elaborating or tweaking it a bit as time goes on.


      Regarding the cutting of the angled bevels, initially I thought I would use a taper jig referenced to the saw fence, that is, the ripping guide. What proved to work best, though, was building up an angled jig reference to the sliding miter table, and using that to set the angle for the cut. Nothing more than sevearl layers of MDF glued together and cut to the right angle, really. KISS.

      Cutting those bevels on my saw, which only bevels to one side, requires that one set of cuts be done with the front panel laid down flat, the other with it on edge; since they're 45 degree cuts, that works OK.

      Another issue about being able to do this is the saw design itself. My 10" saw has almost the cutting depth on an angle of most 12" saws; thats becuase it uses a dual belt drive that's like two short wide belts used in the modern serpentine belt drives in cars, and the blade arbor can go quite high; it will cut 4"X4"s at 90 degrees in one pass. It also has exceptional cutting depth at 45 degrees, about 2-1/2". Since there was no one else around to take pictures, and I didn't have any free hands at the time, there aren't any pictures. I was more concerned wtih getting the work done that documenting it, since I didn't plan on really doing a big writeup on this project- it's probably too difficult for most folks to want to attempt.

      Best regards,

      Jon




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      Last edited by theSven; 14 August 2023, 13:34 Monday. Reason: Update image location
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      • Hanhns
        Junior Member
        • Sep 2003
        • 2

        #4
        So that's how avalon does it. I often wondered how some speaker companies such as arial and totem get those "seemless" corners. I guess if you have the right tools you can do anything
        Thanks for replying so fast and thanks for inlcuding the pics. It is interesting to see some of the professional tools.
        I have actually purchased a few items form joe woodworker. In your pursuit for a good venner you may also want to check out certainlly woods, http://www.certainlywood.com/. They seem to have sales on stock that they want to get rid of fairlly regularlly.

        As far as the flattning agent, I have used a simialar formula to straighten wood venners in the past, the only difference is that I added urea formaldhyde glue (UniBond 800) to the mix of glycerin and water. A trick I learned in a class from a very good venner artist out in CA; Paul Schurch
        http://www.schurchwoodwork.com/

        So I imagine the interface you elude to is some type of a wood puddy that will minimize the expansion? I guess I'l have to think a bit harder on that one.
        BTW your wood work is not at all bad, especially for a double E, I imagine the crossover will be incredible.

        Comment

        • Hank
          Super Senior Member
          • Jul 2002
          • 1345

          #5
          Here's my 2Hz: I've used only solvent-based contact cement and I've only used the 10-mil paper-backed veneer. I've done mostly rosewood, 'cause I love its looks. No problems yet. I tried the new water-based (latex, actually) contact cement once - never again. I tried the new FSV cement and it worked great, but has a very short open time.
          Time-consuming hard labor, yes, but the result are worth every drop of sweat.

          Comment

          • Dennis H
            Ultra Senior Member
            • Aug 2002
            • 3791

            #6
            You have to use an interface material such as commonly used in fine furniture veneering. I know what it is, but I can't tell.... but if you think about it a little, you'll come up with an obvious solution.
            Hmmmmm. Well the two indispensable items in any tool kit are duct tape and bondo. Must be one of those two..... :LOL:

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15259

              #7
              Thanks for the interesting tip for a flattening agent- I hadn't heard of that one before, though Unibond is my favorite veneer glue. Schurch's site is very interesting; I'll have to peruse that in more detail when this rather hectic week is over! I don't imagine I could make one of his classes easily, but the video sounds intriguing.

              And thanks for the kind words... I've still got a lot to learn about woodworking, but I really enjoy it- some day when I do retire, I won't want for things to do!


              Hey Dennis,

              I learned everything I know about Bondo from ThomasW when we built the X1 clone top modules...

              The nicest thing I can say about my current boxes is that there is probably only about a half teaspoon of bondo total between the two of them! THAT is progress.... :T

              Well, I'll drop another hint... paper back veneer already has the interface taken care of. Now, if you could buy paper back veneer without the veneer, then what would you have? Well, it's really a bit more than paper, at least the good grades are.

              So, if you can't buy this material readily in small quantities (you can't, I'm afraid, even if I told you what it was- I've looked myself), well, you can use something else, now, can't you? No reason you can't put veneer on top of other veneer in critical areas... think about how little good oak or walnut paper back veneer costs.


              Regards,

              Jon




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              Comment

              • Doug Fraser
                Member
                • Apr 2004
                • 62

                #8
                I am building a pair of North Creek Okara II's.

                I have copied the box design as see in the thumb nail below with a 1 1/4 inch front baffle and 3/4 inch rear. The box is made of MDF. Like in the picture, I want to paint the baffle and back black using the truck bed liner paint recently posted. I did a test and this stuff looks great! I also want to veneer the middle section of the speaker and I have purchased some (fairly thick - not paper backed) cherry veneer. I plan on using contact cement, as I don't understand the PVA glue and an iron method.

                The baffle and the back are now attached to the speaker box and I have everything sanded smooth. When I apply the veneer should I pre cut the veneer to the width I want (front to back) so I don't have to trim it latter or should I make the veneer about 1/4 inch wider than needed and then trim about 1/8 inch off the front and the back after application?

                I am leaning towards cutting the veneer slightly over sized and then trim to the correct width using a straight edge and very sharp veneer knife with a new blade. Is this the correct procedure? Once the veneer is cut is it easy to remove the waste side and clean up the contact cement using Xyleen? Or is there another technique I should consider?

                After the veneer is applied I then plan to mask off the baffle and back and finish the veneer. Then after sufficient drying time mask off the veneer and spray primer and truck bed liner paint on the baffle and back.

                Regards,
                Doug
                Attached Files

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 15259

                  #9
                  Particularly if you're working with contact cement, I would cut slightly oversize and trim- becuase there's no opportunity to adjust placement. If you do the classic bit with the wax paper and have everything just right, you probably woudln't have to.

                  I use a very sharp utility knife with a quick re-load feature for veneer trimming on the beveled edges. On 90 degree edges, I've had no problem using a sharp triple fluted laminate router bit. I work slowly, though, and am careful of the direction of the cut with regards to the grain.

                  BTW, PVA glue is stuff like Titebond. That's what the my Arvo's are being done with, and MarkP did his that way with Curly maple, with good results- see pic. No volative fumes from contact cement, no alignment issues for initial placement (i.e., no wax paper required, either).

                  Last edited by theSven; 14 August 2023, 13:35 Monday. Reason: Update image location
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                  Comment

                  • Doug Fraser
                    Member
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 62

                    #10
                    What I like about the PVA glue process is the time one can take to align the veneer properly. My understanding is that one applies a thin layer of PVA to the cabinet and the veneer. Once it is dry, do you simply iron the veneer on????

                    If I cut the veneer oversize and then trim it with a sharp knife, how difficult is it to remove the PVA on the waste side of the cut. As you can see from the picture, the veneer cut will be next to the baffle (which I want to paint black). I suspect that I need to remove the PVA residue (and waste veneer) that is bound to be there.



                    For the ends of the cabinet I intend to use a flush trim bit.

                    Regards,
                    Doug
                    Last edited by theSven; 14 August 2023, 13:35 Monday. Reason: Update image location

                    Comment

                    • JonMarsh
                      Mad Max Moderator
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 15259

                      #11
                      What I've found is that usually two thin coats works best; it's even a good idea to dilute it a little with water, then I apply with a squeegee. It should be just dry to the touch, not sitting overnight or anything. Then I put the veneer piece on, use a veneer roller to make sure there's no air bubbles (or to get them out; slit with a razor blade if needed), then use the iron from the center out. I use a black and decker iron (well, I couldn't find a DeWalt or Bosch set on high, with cotton sheet between the iron and wood to be sure I don't scorch the wood. If the veneer is a species that has any tendency to bubble, I follow with a "cool" iron to keep the pressure on while it's setting. The idea is that you melt the PVA on both the wood and the cabinet together. The second iron can be helpful to keep them in flat, intimate contact while cooling, and prevent the formation of bubbles.

                      It's easier than it sounds. I've done contact cement work in the past; never again.

                      OTOH, the real wood honcho's around here may chime in with different comments; remember, I'm just the wires and sparks guy...

                      ~Jon
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                      Comment

                      • Doug Fraser
                        Member
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 62

                        #12
                        Jon:

                        That does sound easy. I am going to give it a try on a test piece in the next several days. I have access to 2 irons - I like the cool down technique.

                        I will trim the veneer and see how easy it is to get rid of the residue on the waste side of the cut.

                        Regards,
                        Doug Fraser

                        Comment

                        • Dennis H
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 3791

                          #13
                          With the PVA and iron method, you could melt the center part to stick it in position, trim the edges and then iron the whole thing down. You could do the same thing with contact cement if you leave paper under the edges until they are trimmed. Either way, trim it before the edges are stuck down. Your paint should stick to PVA just fine (it makes a good MDF primer) but probably not so well to contact cement. You'd need to clean up the excess contact cement with lacquer thinner if you go that way so PVA would probably be easier. As always, practice on some scrap wood.

                          Comment

                          • PMazz
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2001
                            • 861

                            #14
                            I cut and paste this whenever the need arises....


                            As an alternative to contact cement, try ironing on with yellow glue.
                            1. Prep substrate (should be perfectly flat and clean).
                            2. Cut veneer 1/2"-1" oversize OR....
                            2a. You can apply the glue to an entire sheet of veneer, let dry and then cut to size.
                            3. With a foam roller cover, apply coat of yellow glue mixed with a little water (to let it roll on easier) to the substrate (I usually just pour a little glue on the surface and roll it around)
                            4. Roll on a coat to back of veneer using push-pins or tape to hold it down flat. Make sure no glue gets on face of veneer!
                            5. Substrate may need second coat, especially edges. You want the material to be built up on the
                            surface.
                            6. Let dry.
                            7. Position veneer on substrate (it will not adhere without heat).
                            8. Using household iron set at medium high, proceed to iron on the veneer, starting at center and working out. Keep the iron moving slowly so as not to burn the veneer. (trial piece good idea to get the feel for it). Use edge of wood block to keep pressure on it as you iron.
                            9. Trim as usual.
                            10. Before glueing adjacent sides, apply masking tape to the edge of the veneered side where it
                            meets the raw face that will be getting glue next. Again, make sure no glue gets on the face of any of the veneer!!! (this applies to using contact cement also)

                            A couple of big advantages are:
                            Bond strength.
                            Ability to position veneer.
                            Surface will be FLAT when you're done. Contact cement is much more difficult to control, and really isn't recommended for unbacked veneer.


                            Pete
                            Birth of a Media Center

                            Comment

                            • Ten 99
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 133

                              #15
                              Veneer suggestion...

                              I know it's a day late, and a dollar short...

                              How much trouble would it be for you to reconstruct the cabinet, but not to attach the front and rear baffles? It seems to me that if you made your box without attaching the front or rear baffles that you could then veneer the box, and use a flush trim router bit as suggested above.

                              Next you could attach your baffles with some corner sets that align it to the cabinet firmly where it won't "walk" on you. It would be a good idea if the baffles were slightly oversized at this point. Since the baffles won't walk, use a flush trim bit to true the over sized top and bottom of the baffle to the veneered box. I would highly suggest that you have an oversized router base plate - like one that you can see and even purchase here at www.patwarner.com Use a roundover bit to your likes that has a pilot roller to do the sides of the baffles.

                              Now remove your baffles, and do you painting finish, while also doing your finish to the veneers. When the finishes are thoroughly dried and to your likings, it can glue (attach) the painted baffles to the veneered box with clamps. It is a good idea to use some type of non-marring surface between the box and the clamps. Maybe take an old leather belt, and cut it up into pieces that you can put between the box and the face of the clamps.

                              I know this doesn't really help with boxes that have the baffles attached. Sometimes, I believe you might be better off simply redoing the boxes, rather than trying some method of making these surfaces blend which will probably require more time, patience, cursing, mistakes, more cursing, etc.

                              Good luck!

                              Chris

                              Comment

                              • JonMarsh
                                Mad Max Moderator
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 15259

                                #16
                                Very nice description, Pete. If we ever get around to putting a construction tips FAQ together, we'll have to use this. I've never tried a foam roller; I'll have to give that a whirl when I finish up the M8ta's.

                                I've seen so many veneer jobs done with contact cement, which is harder to get a consistent thickness with, that had a definite case of the wavey's when finished. There was a lot of that at the Northern CA DIY two years ago...

                                Thanks for chiming in!


                                ~Jon
                                the AudioWorx
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                                Comment

                                • Doug Fraser
                                  Member
                                  • Apr 2004
                                  • 62

                                  #17
                                  Thanks everyone for your comments - much appreciated.

                                  You have convinced me to give the PVA method a try. This weekend I am going to test it.

                                  Chris, you comments are very timely. I originally planned to attach the baffle and back after glue up of the case however during the glue up phase I realized that as I had inset the front and back of the speaker between the sides and top/bottom and there was a possibility the width and height of the speaker could change slightly depending on clamping pressure. The issue was that I had already pre cut biscuit slots in the front and back of the case to accept the baffle and back and I was afraid that the baffle and back would not line up properly given the potential for a small variance in the width and height depending on clamp pressure. Next time I am going to cut the front and the back full size (so it is not inset between the sides and top/bottom). This way the biscuit slots will maintain alignment and not be dependent on clamp pressure. Additionally, I will cut the baffle and back slightly oversize and then trim the edges with a flush trim bit after the veneer is installed.

                                  Thanks for the Pat Warner web site. I will check it out. I have been using my circle cutting jig as an extended base plate but it doesn’t have a handle like the ones on the web site.

                                  One other question. When flush triming the veneer that overhangs the case edge should one put masking tape on the edge to help prevent tear out?

                                  Regards,
                                  Doug

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 15259

                                    #18
                                    If I was to put anyting on the veneer, it would be veneer tape, not masking tape. You can get that at places like Rockler and Woodcraft stores, or other specialty wood shops, or over the internet.

                                    ~Jon
                                    the AudioWorx
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                                    Comment

                                    • Doug Fraser
                                      Member
                                      • Apr 2004
                                      • 62

                                      #19
                                      I need to make a trip to my neighbourhood Lee Valley store.

                                      I suspect this is the stuff:

                                      Shop Woodworking Hand & Power Tools Collection on Lee Valley. Browse our selection of Reliable Tools for any Woodworking project.



                                      Regards,
                                      Doug

                                      Comment

                                      • cjd
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2004
                                        • 5568

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Ten 99
                                        Next you could attach your baffles with some corner sets that align it to the cabinet firmly where it won't "walk" on you.
                                        DADO! Such an obvious application where this is THE way to go I have not seen.

                                        C
                                        diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

                                        Comment

                                        • Ten 99
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Apr 2004
                                          • 133

                                          #21
                                          Doug,

                                          I can tell you that the more cutting flutes the trim bit has, and the sharper the carbide, the better. If you make a habbit of doing veneers, you might do yourself a good favor to have a nice flush trim bit that you ONLY use on veneers, and a seperate one for all other stuff. If you are running your cuts in the same length as the grain (parallel to it), then you will have much less tendancy to have tearout. If you are running perpindicular to the grain, you will have much great tendancy for tearout. This is also largely mitigated or emphasized by the species of wood (size of fibers, openess of the grain, etc). Some here might tell you (and I wouldn't be inclined to argue) that when cutting perpindicular to the grain, you might get better results using a very sharp razor/xacto/knife edge of some sort, and working patiently and slowly to make a good sharp cut. I have seen where some will use the edge of the substrate that the veneer is mounted to and score the veneer from the backside several times to cut through the fibers and make a nice clean snap cut. Some of this may just take some practice. I do know that it is highly unlikely that if you built 30 sets of boxes that were veneered, that your first pair would have nearly as good of results as your last pair. There are just some little things that you learn that most of us would have hard time putting into words. I know that you will do a good job. But patience is your friend here. Don't get into too much of a hurry and make a mistake because you just wanna get it done. You'll cuss yourself for it later. DAMHIKT.

                                          Comment

                                          • Doug Fraser
                                            Member
                                            • Apr 2004
                                            • 62

                                            #22
                                            Ten 99

                                            I do have a new flush trim bit (2 flutes) and I was planning to use it to cut perpendicular to the gain at the ends of the speaker box. I also have a knife that uses standard disposable scalpel blades from Lee Valley.



                                            Given the info here, I will now consider cutting perpendicular to the veneer grain with the knife.

                                            It seems to me the key will be to test, test, test my technique and look at the results.

                                            The other thing I am going to test is the use of a 3/16" straight bit to trim the edges of the veneer next to the front and back baffle. This way I can initially cut the veneer slightly oversize and then trim to the desired width. I will set the depth of the bit to about 1/4" so that a shadow line is created that gives the impression that the baffle is floating. I am quite comfortable using a router and confident I can get the accuracy required.

                                            Regards,
                                            Doug

                                            Comment

                                            • technimac
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Feb 2005
                                              • 233

                                              #23
                                              Local veneer supplier in B.C.?

                                              Doug,
                                              I'm also from White Rock and am looking for a good supplier for quality veneer. I haven't tried P.J White, but think maybe they'll carry some stock. HD has none (at least when I looked for it there recently). Do you have a line on a local supplier for veneer?
                                              Yeah, I'm very interested in the "iron-on" PVA glue method as well and have learned a lot just reading this thread. Thanks to all the other veneer gurus here for their helpful suggestions.
                                              Cheers, Bruce
                                              Last edited by technimac; 24 February 2005, 21:01 Thursday.
                                              "While we're at it" - the four most dangerous words in Home Improvement

                                              Comment

                                              • JonMarsh
                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 15259

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Ten 99
                                                Doug,

                                                I can tell you that the more cutting flutes the trim bit has, and the sharper the carbide, the better. If you make a habbit of doing veneers, you might do yourself a good favor to have a nice flush trim bit that you ONLY use on veneers, and a seperate one for all other stuff. If you are running your cuts in the same length as the grain (parallel to it), then you will have much less tendancy to have tearout. If you are running perpindicular to the grain, you will have much great tendancy for tearout. This is also largely mitigated or emphasized by the species of wood (size of fibers, openess of the grain, etc). Some here might tell you (and I wouldn't be inclined to argue) that when cutting perpindicular to the grain, you might get better results using a very sharp razor/xacto/knife edge of some sort, and working patiently and slowly to make a good sharp cut. I have seen where some will use the edge of the substrate that the veneer is mounted to and score the veneer from the backside several times to cut through the fibers and make a nice clean snap cut. Some of this may just take some practice. I do know that it is highly unlikely that if you built 30 sets of boxes that were veneered, that your first pair would have nearly as good of results as your last pair. There are just some little things that you learn that most of us would have hard time putting into words. I know that you will do a good job. But patience is your friend here. Don't get into too much of a hurry and make a mistake because you just wanna get it done. You'll cuss yourself for it later. DAMHIKT.
                                                What he said, and then some. I ONLY use my triple flute trim bit for wood veneer, and in doubt, I buy a new bit. When working with veneer, having new sharp cutting edges (whether router or knife) is invaluable.

                                                It is skilled labor, as Chris points out, and experience shows as in any other endeavor. Especially when you're starting out, patience is your ally.
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                                                Comment

                                                • Doug Fraser
                                                  Member
                                                  • Apr 2004
                                                  • 62

                                                  #25
                                                  technimac:

                                                  I purchased the Cherry veneer from Windsor Plywood just off the Fraser Highway in Surrey. It's nothing fancy, just basic veneer but OK for this project. You are welcome to come over and see what I am doing. If you are interested, send me a Personal Message and we can discuss futher. I live in Amble Greene just off 16th Ave.

                                                  Regards,
                                                  Doug

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Doug Fraser
                                                    Member
                                                    • Apr 2004
                                                    • 62

                                                    #26
                                                    Results of Veneering.

                                                    Based on the info here I completed my first attempt at veneering my speaker boxes this weekend. I would give myself a grade of 7 out of 10.

                                                    I am building the North Creek Okara II with the upgraded cross over. The boxes are a copy of what George posts on his web site.

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                                                    I used Lepages Bondfast glue. I added about 10% water and used a scraper to spread a thin coat on the MDF and veneer. Using the iron on method I ran into problems with bubbles. I now understand why the iron method is recommended. I managed to reheat the veneer and then smooth out the bubbles.

                                                    The biggest problem I had was getting a smooth cut on the ends of the veneer.

                                                    Here are my questions.

                                                    - How much glue should one apply? Very thin so that when it is dry the glue is almost imperceptible? or a thin layer so that the MDF is effectively white when the glue is wet? Can hide glue be used with the iron on process?

                                                    - How dry should the glue be before ironing on the veneer? Dry to the touch or slightly tacky?

                                                    - I used a new scalpel blade in my knife when I trimmed the end of the veneer. I scored the veneer from the back and then snapped it off. The edges were slightly ragged. I didn't try the flush trim bit in a router. How do you get the cut smooth with no tear out?

                                                    - I applied masking tape to cover the front and back baffle. After the veneer dried I used a 1/8 router bit to route in a shadow line. This worked very well. The veneer (cut slightly oversized) that overlapped the tape (that defined the margin between the baffle and the veneered body of the speaker) came off very easy when I removed the tape and there was no tear out on the veneer.

                                                    - I used a Mohawk (nane of the company) Xylene based wipe on stain. I have used this before and there is no blotching on Cherry. It dries really fast (in about 15 min at 70 degrees F)

                                                    Here is a picture of the two cabinets

                                                    Click image for larger version

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                                                    Here is a picture of the North Creek woofer cross over.

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                                                    Here is a picture of the speakers with stain and spray lacquer (from a can).

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                                                    The baffles (front and back) will be painted black with truck bed liner.

                                                    Regards,
                                                    Doug
                                                    Last edited by theSven; 14 August 2023, 13:38 Monday. Reason: Update image location

                                                    Comment

                                                    • opt-e
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 190

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Doug Fraser
                                                      Based on the info here I completed my first attempt at veneering my speaker boxes this weekend. I would give myself a grade of 7 out of 10.
                                                      Doug, do you have any final pictures of your cabinets with the baffles painted?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Blaine
                                                        Member
                                                        • Jan 2007
                                                        • 38

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by opt-e
                                                        Doug, do you have any final pictures of your cabinets with the baffles painted?
                                                        Well I don't know Doug, but his lack of an answer makes me imagine a scenario such as I might encounter... the painting process fell apart so bad that the speakers ended up in the firepit with a quart of gasoline, and no type of woodwork will ever again be attempted.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • plumber
                                                          Junior Member
                                                          • Aug 2011
                                                          • 2

                                                          #29
                                                          looks good, do you get any cracks ?

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