Experience with Chord AMP with B&W

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  • stuofsci02
    Super Senior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 1241

    Experience with Chord AMP with B&W

    Hi All,

    I am in a bit of a dilemma. Over the years I have been happily/slowly upgrading away at my system. I currently have a set of 683's with HTM61 center.

    My electronics consist of a NAD T742 reciever and two NAD PE2200 power amps that I am using to drive the main speakers. All other speakers are being driven from the reciever.

    At some point I want to get to the 804S, but I realize that I need to upgrade my electronics first to get the advantage of the speaker upgrade. I also want to add the new HD decoding for DTS and Dolby as I am getting into Blu-Ray audio/concerts.

    With this in mind I set out to find some quality separates. I wanted a Pre/Pro and also a 5 channel power amp. Being that I had NAD gear I looked into the T175 and the T975 combo, and I just wasn't feeling that setup. I also looked at the Rotel RSP-1570 and RMB-1575 combo, and found them to be very nice. From my listening, the Rotel had great clarity and control of the speaker. Sounds stage was better then my NAD gear and I really enjoyed it. Best of all, it was right in my budget.

    I rarely buy things on the spot and so I went home to think more about it and read more reviews. When I came to this forum, I found that a lot of people had the 804S which is what I want to eventually get. I found that for many that were running Rotel gear with the 804s that they were planning to go for an even better amp to maximize the 804s. This left me feeling a little disturbed. I understand that you can always get better, but I didn't want the Rotel to be a stop gap solution where I would be opening my wallet again as soon as I got to the 804S.

    With that in mind I decided I needed to listen to a high end amp and compare the Rotel. The high end offering that my dealer likes with the B&Ws is Chord. My sales guy suggested the Chord SPM-650 which is 130 wpc stereo amp. The price point is just slightly less then the RSP-1570 and RMB-1575 combined. I hoped and prayed that I would not find the sound of the Chord a major improvement over the Rotel...

    My dealer setup a pair of 683's with the Rotel Gear again, and played me some of my own CD's, and some of their selection. Again it was very good. He then connected the Chord and played the same CDs.. I was blown away.. It didn't even sound like the same songs.. I was hearing sounds from parts of the room I didn't thing a speaker could touch. Every sound was so clear and precise. The separation was amazing. It was at that moment that I realized I could not buy the Rotel.

    Now I was feeling sick to my stomach. Not only was I going to have to dump a lot of coin, but I was only going to have a stereo amp, and no pre/pro, and no Dolby HD.

    Since I am planning to get to 804S, my dealer suggested we do the same tests with the 804s. He hooked the Rotel up to the 804s and played the same CDs.. I was shocked.. I prefered the 683's with the Chord to the 804S with the Rotel.. It was as if the Chord was bringing the 683's into a whole new arena of Hi-Fi. He then put the 804s onto the Chord, and it was again awesome (marked improvement over the 683's).

    Knowing now that I needed (as any man who likes toys needs) a high end Amp, I was worried that maybe 130 wpc would cause a problem.. My dealer put my mind at ease. He connected up a set of 801D and the Chord made them sing as well seemingly without effort.

    So here I am.. I know now that I need a high end Amp.. After looking around I can find no one on here using Chord gear. Also I can only find one magazine review and although they found it performed well they found it colds and lacking personality.

    It seems a lot of guys here run Classe, and I have not had a chance to hear that. The Classe dealer in my area is a couple of hours away. Is there something entry level that Classe has to compard to the Chord (Price point is $4800 dollars Canadian or about $4500 US).

    I deal with the owner at my Dealer. I asked him about the Classe and he indicated that it is very good stuff and that they had to pick either Chord or Classe for their high end stuff. He preferred the sound of the Chord stuff and felt it to be a better match with the B&W line. Since he wanted to believe %100 in what he was selling he picked Chord. So far he has spent about 6 hours with me auditioning different combinations of the Rotel and Chord and I am very satisfied I have auditioned them to the fullest.

    So after all that, my question is:

    Does anyone else run Chord gear with B&Ws and if so what is the experience?

    Is there any other comparable products (similar price and quality) I should try?

    Does anyone else know of any other reviews of the Chord SPM lineup?

    Any other comments?

    I know in the end it is up to my ears and I think the Chord sounds great, but at the same time this is my first experience with anything in this price range.

    Thanks,

    Stuart
    Main System:
    B&W 801D
    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
    Oppo BDP-105
    Squeezebox Touch


    Second System:
    B&W CM7
    Emotiva UMC-1
    Emotiva UPA-2
    Oppo BDP-83SE
    Grant Fidelity DAC-09
  • Orb
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2008
    • 147

    #2
    Hi Stuart I own Chord gear for some time now and used them on both B&W old bookshelf CM2 and also 803s, and now with Wilson Benesch Discovery.
    I spent around 14-18 months trying different amps with the initial focus on stability of sound and also niggles (such as that possibly caused by certain musical traits, masking-hiss from Goldfrapp last album as an example being less tolerable on many amps for me, usually due to it not being differentiated that much from the music).
    Then I looked at the subjective enjoyment of the music for the narrowed down group.

    Overall I have to say I love how stable the sound seems from the Chord gear; not lean or lush but just normal, however what does stand out is just how fast these amps are, try an incredibly fast and complex dance track and its quite boggling.
    So in a way, there is some similarities between Chord and also Krell - and this is what the two primary dealers also say that I chat to.
    Unfortunately just like Krell, it can be a challenge in finding one of their good products at the lower entry.
    And here you will hear some say that the Chord gear really does not shine until you start to reach the mid-upper gear, SPM1200E.
    So at lower levels you would need to diffenteriate between what is the good and average Chord amps (to some anyway) by listening through the range.
    To see what I mean have a listen also to the SPM1200E even if not looking to purchase.

    One good bit of news though, if going power amps I would not consider the Chord preamps unless the cash does not worry you overly and can afford the CPA3000.
    I have owned from entry level to their mid-preamp and now upgrading to the CPA5000.
    Personally I think you can get better price-performance from another manufacturer until you hit their high end preamps.

    For bit of background I own the SPM1200E combined with CPA3000 preamp (which is being replaced with the 5000).

    If at some point your looking at DACs but lack of USB does not bother you (and if you go with Chord gear), the DAC64 seems to be designed perfectly for Chord amps (in terms of sound), owned DAC64 for awhile now and doubt I will change it in a long time.
    2nd hand prices of DAC64 have dropped pretty significantly since the QBD76 was released.

    As another suggestion, if you really enjoy the sound of the Chord, see if you can audition the Krell S-300i integrated amp.
    To me it is also a performance bargain.
    One area not sure if its possible for public to buy, Chord Electronics also sell pro amps that are a lot cheaper (downside is they have fans inside and support-terms&conditions are probably different), but this may be a way to reach the upper levels.

    Anyway I love the Chord gear; solid,dependable, and without the subtle tweaks to the sound while also being totally enjoyable.
    I guess like being in the studio.
    Here is a link with a pro review of one of their pro amps, very similar to the home mid-upper Chord amps.


    But if possible do yourself a favour and visit another B&W dealer that has alternative high end manufacturers to give yourself a reference point, and maybe surprise you with what you like

    Cheers
    Orb

    Comment

    • stuofsci02
      Super Senior Member
      • Nov 2009
      • 1241

      #3
      Thanks Orb,

      I definately agree that the things I liked about the SPM-650 was that it was so neutral and fast which seems to be a forte of Chord. For some, this may sound like it is lacking warmth and sounds clinical, but for me it sounds as if it is a more accurate reproduction.

      I have always enjoyed what I refer to as a "British" sound which I find to be more neutral then Canadian and US manufacturers. This is much of the reason I like my B&W's so much, and one of the reasons I was looking at Rotel and now Chord. I had been avoiding brands such as Bryston as I had spoken with people who found the match with B&W too be a bit bright which for me is a no no. I have heard the same for Krell also, although I have also heard the opposite.

      I think I have definately jumped in over my head though, and now am thinking to hard. I am out of my element, and I feel like I did the first time I heard a good Hi-Fi setup. Knowing I have heard something great, but not fully understanding why or where it stands. Now I have a lot of catching up to do.

      Three years ago I would have thought anyone spending ~$5000 on just a stereo amp was crazy. Maybe I still do.

      Even with a entry level Chord I am stretching my audio budget, but I know that I would rather spend now then upgrade and never be happy. Now that it has been a few days since I listened to the Chord I am even wondering if I imagined that it was so good.

      I did listen to a 480 wpc Chord. Not sure the model, and was duely impressed, but I found the style to be similar and I listed to it on 801D speakers. I am not sure the 683's would do the amp any justice.

      I have checked other B&W dealers and the one that was a Classe dealer is now a Chord dealer so that does not help.

      Here are the other brands that I could go an audition in my area that also have B&W speakers:

      Bryston
      Krell
      Classe (I found one other place)
      Parasound

      I suppose I just need to do more listening.

      Thanks,

      Stuart
      Main System:
      B&W 801D
      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
      Oppo BDP-105
      Squeezebox Touch


      Second System:
      B&W CM7
      Emotiva UMC-1
      Emotiva UPA-2
      Oppo BDP-83SE
      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

      Comment

      • Orb
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2008
        • 147

        #4
        Yep you summed up the Chord nicely, another thing that I find pretty special about the Chord is that it sounds stunning whether played quiet or loud, and on a pretty tough speaker for low level playing - Wilson Benesch Discovery.

        I agree with the mindset as well of keeping an open mind about what you heard and to question it, this helps to offset some of the bias we may have for a product.

        But when spending at top of ones budget, the most beneficial aspect is to give yourself a cooldown period of 1-2 weeks, hear a few other amps that are cheaper and also same price.
        On top of that I would not restrict yourself to one style of amp sound, I love both the Chord and also Musical Fidelity hybrid integrated amp; both are pretty special IMO but bring different things to the party.
        The Chord for me can play all music, but I must admit for some music I do enjoy the lush strings the MF can present.
        Just remember to keep an ear out for niggles as that is what we tend to forget when making our purchasing decision (focus on what we liked and not balance it with the negatives even though we may comment on them we do not use them in the final decision).

        For a subtle difference to Chord if possible Classe is worth a listen, I would also recommend that Krell integrated I mentioned.
        The downside is that I find Krell dealers are not usually B&W - in my region anyway.

        Sometimes avoiding the hasty decision can make us feel better about our purchasing decisions, even if you do still eventually go with the Chord as is your initial instinct
        Keep us all informed how the search goes and if any questions feel free to ask.

        Oh, another product incredibly similar to Chord SPM1200E but just a shade less especially at low levels is the Lyngdorf TDAI2200.
        In UK its a pretty good price but I got a feeling it may be pricey outside of here, but you get heck of a lot of technology for its price, especially if only connecting digital sources such as CD-players and take the room perfect option, just mentioning this as you can save money on the Lyngdorf if you do not need the analogue section for things such as turntables.

        Cheers
        Orb

        Comment

        • Audio_ElF
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2007
          • 271

          #5
          Slightly anecdotal ... but before Bowers and Wilkins linked up with Classe, Abbey Road studios used Chord amplification with their (N-series) 800 speakers.

          Eloise

          Comment

          • Orb
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2008
            • 147

            #6
            Yeah, part of the reason I would say is down to build quality and what seems durability.
            Not sure if Chord were a Pro amp manufacturer before home-consumers, its interesting the pro amps are in the same chassis but with fans.
            Make me wonder if the pro amps came 1st.
            But with quite a lot of respected studios using Chord amps its a pretty good endorsement, ah even with Classe amps in Abbey Road there were still Chord in some of their smaller studios (think more specifically mastering).

            Cheers
            Orb

            Comment

            • IceG
              Junior Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 29

              #7
              I have been using Chord amps with B&W speakers for ten years now. I find it an excellent combination, reliable and not at all fatiguing.

              Set-up is an SPM1200E with N802s front and two channels of an SPM1600 with Matrix802S3s rear.

              What would I change? Add another SPM1200E to bi-amp as the N802s love that (previously tried with the 4 channels from the SPM1600).

              What alternatives? Big Meridians especially the 557, 558 and 559 or the Brystons.

              Comment

              • stuofsci02
                Super Senior Member
                • Nov 2009
                • 1241

                #8
                Thanks for all the advice guys!

                Orb, I am with you on the cool down. I want to make sure I get this one right. I have been reading some really good reviews on the Parasound Halo stuff, so I owe it to go and listen. My shop carries the Halo too and I am sure they would have no problem spending some more time with me ops:. I might want to hear the Halo JC1 monoblocks and the A51 (5 channel).

                Audio_ElF, I was thinking the same thing when I was listening. Also at the George Lucas Skywalker Ranch on their B&Ws.. It would be nice to have a little slice of Abbey Road in my house. Even if it is only the 683's for now.

                IceG, sounds like a beautiful setup. I bet if I had that going I would never leave home.

                Thanks,

                Stuart
                Main System:
                B&W 801D
                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                Oppo BDP-105
                Squeezebox Touch


                Second System:
                B&W CM7
                Emotiva UMC-1
                Emotiva UPA-2
                Oppo BDP-83SE
                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                Comment

                • Orb
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 147

                  #9
                  Stuart,
                  definitely have a listen to the Parasounds as thats pretty cool you got a dealer carrying those, I would had loved to hear them myself
                  If possible I would compare their premium Halo (JC1 and A21) to their New Classic line.
                  Just remember though need to balance what you like with possible niggles you pick up on; I think this is why some get the itch with replacing their amps-speakers as eventually its the niggles that gets the better of them.

                  And glad that it sounds like your having fun with the process of looking to buy

                  Cheers
                  Orb

                  Comment

                  • stuofsci02
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Nov 2009
                    • 1241

                    #10
                    I like the term niggles... I will definately watch out for those..

                    I'll let you know how it goes.. Thanks again!
                    Main System:
                    B&W 801D
                    Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                    Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                    Oppo BDP-105
                    Squeezebox Touch


                    Second System:
                    B&W CM7
                    Emotiva UMC-1
                    Emotiva UPA-2
                    Oppo BDP-83SE
                    Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                    Comment

                    • stuofsci02
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 1241

                      #11
                      Just as an update.. I went and auditioned the Parasound A51 with my speakers and it sounded very nice, but the Chord blew me away everytime I heard it.. The real kicker was Mark Knopfler's new album Get Lucky.. By far and away the Chord was the winner for my ears.. I got a nice price on it so I pulled the trigger...

                      I was definately hoping that I would not have to buy the Chord and would prefer something else... It absolutely provided the worst bang for the buck of anything I listened to. But in the end it was like a pretty girl I couldn't get out of my mind.. No matter how bad she treats me, I am in love with that sound..

                      Cheers

                      Stuart
                      Main System:
                      B&W 801D
                      Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                      Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                      Oppo BDP-105
                      Squeezebox Touch


                      Second System:
                      B&W CM7
                      Emotiva UMC-1
                      Emotiva UPA-2
                      Oppo BDP-83SE
                      Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                      Comment

                      • Orb
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 147

                        #12
                        Gratz on the new amp Stuart :T
                        And glad you got the chance to listen to the Parasound as well, well another positive about the Chord we never mentioned is that it is sooooo easy to carry and position
                        Hey would it be great if Chord did a cheap version of their products without all the aluminium casing and design - would save at least £1,000 just there, ah we can dream of the cheap Chords as I feel same as you; it is not the cheapest bang for your bucks but it pulled me in as well.

                        Here is hoping you get many hours of enjoyment.
                        Cheers
                        Orb

                        Comment

                        • IceG
                          Junior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 29

                          #13
                          Hey Stuart, good choice and great that you like the outcome.

                          Try the Chord with 805s. Don't believe standmounts can do bass? It's a great combination. I probably wouldn't recommend it for a system primarily for home cinema (home theater) but, for music, I reckon it would show your 683s something to think about and be easier on the wallet than 804s

                          BTW, going the other way, I auditioned some pre-diamond 803s once and reckon they are easily the equal of the Matrix 802S3s so may be a good second-user alternative to new 804s as well as easier to place than 802s.

                          And I once tried my teeny-weeny kitchen Mission 760is on the SPM1200E.....not loud but £120 speakers with an £7.5k amp can and did sound very good.

                          Comment

                          • Orb
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 147

                            #14
                            Stuart,
                            now that you have the Chord amp, in the future I would strongly consider the DAC64 if the fact it is missing USB does not bother you.
                            Prices have dropped pretty well now that the QBD76 has been out a little while, the build quality is so good I would not be overly concerned purchasing 2nd hand, and the sound really is that good with Chord amps.

                            One consideration if eventually you do try and listen to the DAC64, bear in mind there has been several iterations of it, so there will be subtle engineering differences between an older one and say a DAC64 that is 18 months old (the most up to date has two digital inputs used together for higher sample frequencies).
                            Other changes I am not sure on but may include changes to the software code, overall think there are 4 or 5 versions of DAC64.
                            But if you get the chance one day have an audition of the DAC64, it will compliment your amp nicely

                            Cheers
                            Orb

                            Comment

                            • stuofsci02
                              Super Senior Member
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 1241

                              #15
                              IceG,

                              Very good points.. I really like the 805s and I know my wife would like it even more. I definately believe the two-way book shelf can handle its own. After all it was my Uncles B&W DM 602 that got me into this whole mess. I heard those as a teenager and knew what I liked..

                              I also had a set of Tannoy Fusion 2 bookshelf speakers about the same size as the 805 and I really liked those too. It could definately fill the room. In fact I sometimes as a joke bring out my Tannoy Mercury F1's ($200 Canadian Dollars = about 75 pounds.) and set them up as mains for a day or two. These things are tiny and really cannot be criticized for what they are. I find them quite a speaker for the price. http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Tanno...ury-F1-Custom/

                              The one thing I don't like about the 805 is that because the midrange/bass drive pulls double duty there is no FST driver. I love that FST midrange driver. Of course the 805 makes up for it in cross over and cabinet design. I would love to own a pair, but I think the 804S is the exact size of my 683S and should do everything I need and then some..
                              Main System:
                              B&W 801D
                              Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                              Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                              Oppo BDP-105
                              Squeezebox Touch


                              Second System:
                              B&W CM7
                              Emotiva UMC-1
                              Emotiva UPA-2
                              Oppo BDP-83SE
                              Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                              Comment

                              • stuofsci02
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Nov 2009
                                • 1241

                                #16
                                Orb,

                                Its funny you mention this. I was looking at that last night as a possible next step.. Pretty expensive though. As a cheap alternative I have heard good things about Cambridge Audio dacmagic.. My Uncle has one so I might borrow it..
                                Main System:
                                B&W 801D
                                Emotiva USP-1 Pre-Amp
                                Chord SPM-650 Stereo Amp
                                Oppo BDP-105
                                Squeezebox Touch


                                Second System:
                                B&W CM7
                                Emotiva UMC-1
                                Emotiva UPA-2
                                Oppo BDP-83SE
                                Grant Fidelity DAC-09

                                Comment

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