DIY mains

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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    DIY mains

    Okay Thomas now that i've got your attention for a bit I'm thinking of trying DIY mains to replace my current Energy C-2's. I think I'd like to keep the size reasonable (smaller towers or bookshelf) for now...possibly MTM. So lets say we have a small budget of $250 for the drivers and crossover. For the box how good are the pre made box's at Parts Express? I might be able to get them made for me locally so all options are open at this time unfortunatly as much as I'd dearly love to build the box's myself I don't have the place to do it (building a SonoSub was hard enough in an apartment!) So my I'm all ears...




  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    Andrew

    My "advice" for a DIY speaker(other than sub)"newbie" is if you have access to a local knowledgable speaker guru and a woodshop, then go for it.

    But if you don't, then consider one of the following options.

    1)Checkout the kits from the various speaker companies. These are the easiest and most "foolproof" of all the possibilities. (I'll put some links to the better known kit companies on the DIY resource thread later today)

    2)Copy one of the zillions of "How I made this" speaker building project websites. Here you'll hopefully get a proven design that works well.

    3)Decide on a mix of drivers that fit your budget and performance expectations. Then have one of the speaker supply companies do a "LEAP" design for the crossover.

    Remember full-range speakers or limited LFE range speakers are significantly more complicated than subs. So there is much greater potential for botching the design and ending up with an underperforming product.

    Precut kit "blanks" are a mixed blessing. They are usually reasonably priced and VERY convenient. But shipping MDF long distances is EXPENSIVE compared to buying 4'X8' sheets locally. And the shipping will usually atleast double the cost of the kit. So I'd suggest having a local shop do the woodworking for a price.

    Although I haven't heard them I'm quite impressed with the Avatar/Adire Audio dual 8" 2-way MTM kits like Mike Knapp built. Although limited in its performance due to keeping the kits inexpensive, the design is very well thought out. Also since the woofers are shielded this is a big plus. Additionally the plans are available to build designs either sealed 24" tall or ported/transmission line 48" tall. This gives plenty of flexibility and the "upgrade" potential of simply building the larger box when space permits. The $140ea price is also attractive.




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • Andrew Pratt
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 16507

      #3
      Thanks Thomas I was looking at the Avatar kits already and thought the smaller sealed option might not be a bad option. Like you say I could always build new boxes for them later...




      Comment

      • Andrew Pratt
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 16507

        #4
        Thomas I've been looking through those DIY kits you listed and I came across these R58 It seems the ribbon speaker is available for approx $400 Cdn. What would be involved in making that bottom portion of this speakers? I just found out the Scan Speak drivers they used are $175US each from Madisound. Would there be cheaper alternatives to these that would still sound good?

        There's always the Module 30 kit but I don't think I want a ribbon that tall (too easily damaged with pets and kids)




        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10934

          #5
          Andrew

          Welcome to the world of real high-end audio!

          First you need to check with John Meyer. The last correspondence I had with him, they weren't offering the 8" unit do to demand for the larger units. This I understand can change and they might be making them again.

          There are 2 issues with this system

          1)the "smaller" ribbons don't go very low as a result the XO point ends up right in the middle of some of the most important frequencies. This can be a problem.

          2)5" drivers IMO don't go low enough period. And there is great potential for there to be "hole" in the frequency response between the mains and the sub. For a good "marriage" between mains and a sub, the mains should have good output to one octave below the crossover point. So if you use 80Hz as the XO point the mains need to have good output to 40Hz. This would be problematic for most 5" drivers, even ones as good as the ScanSpeak "Revelator" series. The NFR site says they go down to 100Hz! oops not low enough

          Using "lesser" woofers isn't a wise idea. Systems like this are VERY reveling and offer cutting edge performance. So putting say a $50ea woofer with a $200 ribbon is a bit like buying a Porsche without an engine, then getting a Toyota motor. Not all that bad but............

          You could do it and then later upgrade to a better woofer, however then the XO has to be totally redesigned. So in essence you start from scratch again.

          You might consider going the otherway. Buy a great woofer, and a "good" regular dome tweeter. Then later when money permits get the ribbon. Using this stratagy minimizes the "throw-away" factor because tweeter XO parts are relatively cheap. And you don't need to rebuild the woofer box.

          Also notice the R58 has an efficiency of 86db/1 watt/1 meter. This is very low. These speakers are probably GREAT nearfield low output monitors. They might be "wanting" for HT playback.

          I'm not positive but I believe NFR use simple sealed boxes, even if they are ported, building them is no big deal.

          Remember the saying "there's no replace for displacement" The larger the cone area the better the speaker (usually )




          theAudioWorx
          Klone-Audio

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • Andrew Pratt
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 16507

            #6
            Thanks thomas...okay so if I went with the Magneplanar MMG aren't these also not very efficent? How much room do these need to work properly? How sturdy is the screen ie is it pretty fragile or fairly strong?




            Comment

            • ThomasW
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 10934

              #7
              Sorry for "rambling" but here's another option to consider if you like "esoteric" speakers.

              Magnepan is the leader in high value, high quality, flat panel audiophile speakers for stereo and multi-channel use.


              Run a pair of these with your current sub, should sound pretty good, $500USD. When you want to upgrade trade them in before 1 year, get full credit towards bigger models, or give me a "buzz" and I'll show you how to "marry" them with the woofer portion of the Whisper for something really wild.




              theAudioWorx
              Klone-Audio

              IB subwoofer FAQ page


              "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

              Comment

              • Andrew Pratt
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 16507

                #8
                Well those MMG's look like just the ticket for me...you da man Thomas.




                Comment

                • ThomasW
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 10934

                  #9
                  The MMG like all Magnepans and other planar speakers are fairly low efficiency. As a matter of fact they are lower than the NFR ribbons, but they can handle far greater amounts of power so with a good sized amp they will play "fairly" loud.

                  The benefit with "planar" type speakers is the fact that they have a large mount of radiating area. It can usually be measured in sq ft as opposed to sq in with cones.

                  Maggies have a very distinctive "sound", not to everyones liking. The nice thing about the MMG "deal" is the ability to return them, if they aren't your cup of tea




                  theAudioWorx
                  Klone-Audio

                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                  Comment

                  • Andrew Pratt
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 16507

                    #10
                    Thomas I know its totally personal but how would you describe the MMG sound? You know I think you've openned the vault here these Magneplaner speakers sound exactly like what I'm looking for...I'm pretty sure I'm going to try the MMG's.




                    Comment

                    • ThomasW
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 10934

                      #11
                      It's hard to describe an "experience". Planar speakers have an "openness" or "air" about them. They are revealing of the source driving them.

                      In general they throw a wider/deeper sound stage than piston type speakers. Which is better planar or cones, is an apples vs oranges type of debate.

                      I tend to avoid characterizing any speaker as "bright" or "laid-back" or whatever. A lot of people do make these kind of characterizations, but I try not to. Primarily due to the fact that the room where they are placed, has such an impact on the performance.

                      You'll probably want to checkout this forum
                      Discussion forum for all planar speakers, electrostatics, ribbons and planars including Magnepan, Martin Logan and others.

                      MUG=Maggie Users Group




                      theAudioWorx
                      Klone-Audio

                      IB subwoofer FAQ page


                      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                      Comment

                      • Bing Fung
                        Ultra Senior Member
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 6521

                        #12
                        Andrew, are you looking to upgrade to some maggies? Way to go!




                        Bing
                        Bing

                        Comment

                        • Andrew Pratt
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 16507

                          #13
                          Bing it will happen just as soon as find a buyer for my C-2s.




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