Odd Question: Best non-B&W Center to go with 802D

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  • auth
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 2

    Odd Question: Best non-B&W Center to go with 802D

    Alright alright, I know this is about as bizarre a question as can be asked but here goes-

    I currently have a nice 2 channel music setup with simply two 802Ds. I'd like to start to watch movies with these speakers also but don't really have the space to add an HTM2D or HTM1D. The movies would be Blu-Ray so I'd like to assemble a few extra speakers, going as budget conscious as possible (the budget is somewhat tight at the moment) in order to enjoy my movies as intended with surround sound.

    There may not be a real answer to this question, but are there any center speakers out there (preferably ones that aren't too deep) that would 'work' (I know it won't be perfect or near perfect) in this situation? Obviously the two constraints are budget and size--the HTM2D is simply too deep and too tall to fit in my room so even if I did decide to buy one, trying to shoehorn it into the space I have available would be extremely difficult if not impossible without major changes elsewhere.

    The room is on the small side, so beyond trying to find a 'decently' matching center, I guess the alternative would be to go the extreme cheap route with a set of 5 small monitor speakers and a receiver to power them but would that really be the 'better' solution in this case?

    And yes, I know the question is relatively insane and may just end up going the HTM2D route and 'trying' to make them work, even if it means greatly sub-optimal positioning of it in the room, but in any case I appreciate any and all responses and thank you for your help!
  • Antus
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 141

    #2
    this is indeed a strange question. do you even consider HTM3s or HTM4S? they are both smaller, especially HTM4s.

    another choice are CM2 center, i won't recommend go anything below that. otherwise, the sound matching would be a problem.

    Comment

    • Race Car Driver
      Super Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 1537

      #3
      Ive used Klipsch for centers in the past with my N802s. They work fine for movies, usually you are not too critical for movies, its all about the wow, bang boom!
      B&W

      Comment

      • wgriel
        Senior Member
        • May 2006
        • 241

        #4
        This is just my opinion, but I'd rather go with a phantom center than a big mis-match. Of course, ymmv and all that.

        Comment

        • auth
          Junior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 2

          #5
          Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far.

          Again, the main constraints are space (primarily) and budget. Obviously I'd love to get an HTM1D, or heck, another 802D, however it's a pretty small room and I simply don't have the space (even for an HTM2D or any of the B&W 800 series centers, they're all too tall and/or deep to fit on the stand my TV is on).

          That said, I'm basically trying to 'cheat' in a sense and try to get away with the cheapest solution to get a 'pretty good' 5.1 setup for movies when i watch them to at least take advantage of surround sound and the latest lossless movie soundtracks, while still having the 'best' setup for 2 channel music.

          Is it just a case of, if the center isn't timbre matched at all, don't bother caring and just go as cheap as possible (without resorting to total junk) because nothing will be truly comparable to begin with?

          In terms of dimensions, I'd like to keep the height lower than 8 inches and the depth less than 9 inches, width is non-constrained. I know those are pretty tiny #s, but that's what will "fit" without doing some extreme reconfiguration that may be at the detriment to 2 channel listening (which is my priority) and to TV placement (not a lot of options here--can't mount it on the wall).

          So I guess the options are-

          1. Re-configure room for an HTM2D or 1D, both of which are massive stretches of my budget that I'm not even sure I'd want to do even IF I could fit them easily.
          2. Find a 'passable' center channel that would fit the above dimensions to just plop down on my TV stand and some other surrounds (which I don't care too much about 'matching' for).
          3. Just buy 5 separate, smaller, cheaper speakers (probably under $1k) and a receiver to power them and just use those for movies and try to fit them into the room without compromising 2 channel music listening.
          4. Demolish house, build dedicated theater....ok this one is me just dreaming

          Thanks again for any and all help/advice.

          Comment

          • GregLett
            Senior Member
            • May 2005
            • 753

            #6
            Originally posted by wgriel
            This is just my opinion, but I'd rather go with a phantom center than a big mis-match. Of course, ymmv and all that.
            I agree with wgriel. I am currently not using a center in my HT setup. Two fronts, sub and surrounds. I would say get the best center or no center.
            Greg

            Comment

            • emig5m
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2008
              • 646

              #7
              Definitely get the matching center to your speakers and make it work. If you have the 802D you obviously care about your sound quality, heh. I currently can't wall mount (window directly behind TV) so I modified an old aquarium stand to hold the TV and center speaker:






              Get the matching center, you'll find a way to make it work once you get it...

              Comment

              • htsteve
                Super Senior Member
                • Sep 2004
                • 1216

                #8
                Originally posted by auth
                In terms of dimensions, I'd like to keep the height lower than 8 inches and the depth less than 9 inches, width is non-constrained.

                Thanks again for any and all help/advice.

                I also recommend staying with B&W for a center. Mismatching is not a great way to go. The dimensions you give are indeed pretty small. Here are a couple of ideas for a nice starter center channel.



                Will fit height wise. A bit deeper at 12", but I'm hoping you can overhang (like the picture that emig5m showed).




                A bigger version of above. Again height works, but some overhang would be needed.




                This fits your dimension very nicely (it can be flipped on it's side to go horizontal). LEase expensive option.

                A CM series speaker: Size is similar to the 600 series, but the performance will be better.




                If you can post a picture of your space, that might help spark some ideas.

                Hope this helps.

                Comment

                • Re-Animator
                  Junior Member
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 1

                  #9
                  Originally posted by GregLett
                  I would say get the best center or no center.
                  I totally agree with that. Your 802Ds will give you a better center image than any small speaker.

                  Comment

                  • Hoopofficial
                    Member
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 44

                    #10
                    I run with no center as well. Depending on the with of your mains, a center is not needed IMHO. Primary purpose of the center is to center dialogue. If you have the speakers properly setup, they should image superbly and the center is not needed. If they are very wide then invest in the correct center. I can't imangine that you will be happy with a "bastardized" center channel.

                    Comment

                    • Kevin D
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 4601

                      #11
                      You can always do a Signature 8NT in-wall in a custom made box. That would be the closest match and fit the specs.

                      Kevin D.

                      Comment

                      • Race Car Driver
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 1537

                        #12
                        auth,

                        As an owner of a pair N802s for about 6 years now and having several setups in the past here are some of the speakers I have shared with my two N802s.

                        Center
                        B&W NHTM1
                        B&W NHTM2
                        Klipsch C-2
                        Klipsch RC-62
                        A few other Klipsh speakers
                        Some small BlueRoom speakers

                        Surrounds

                        B&W SCMS
                        B&W NSCM-1
                        Klipsch S3
                        Klipsch RS-42
                        Klipsch RS-52

                        Subs
                        B&W ASW825
                        B&W ASW855
                        Klipsch Sub 12
                        Klipsche RW-12D
                        Blueroom bass stations

                        I have powered all the speakers listed above off of Aragon and Bryston amps and even two different Yamaha 140x7 receivers (yes even currently the N802s are powered off a receiver..)

                        I have been in the very same situation as you, having large speakers like the 802s and just wanting to add a surround experience. I will say that mixing and matching for movies should not be as big of a concern.

                        Opinions on the centers I have used? Yes, obviously I liked the HTM1 the best! Of course I miss it, but I like to try new things and when I sold it I told myself I could always get another. The Klipsch RC-62 center was a "bigger" center and did just fine filling in at a fraction of the cost! Sure it was no HTM1, but watching movies was more enjoyable than just 2 speakers. Why did I sell it? I was able to get all my money back and decided I wanted to go with a "bigger" B&W center some day.

                        Same goes for surrounds, as much as I loved the "matching" B&W surrounds, however for movies the klipsch surrounds kicked the B&W ass. Why? Because they were designed to be surrounds. Did the B&W look "better"? Yep, were the awesome speakers? Yep. Would I get another pair? Maybe, depends on what I was wanting them for.

                        As far as the subs go, I was damn impressed with the B&W ASW825. The 855 was too big for my room I think and the 825 sounded alot better! But take a $4000 example of the B&W ASW 855 subwoofer and compare it to a much cheaper $800 Klipsch RS-12d sub, Id take the Klipsch 10 times out of 10. It sounded better in my room and cost quite a bit less!

                        My point here (not being a klipsch brand push or anything, just happen to try a bunch of those) is that I understand exactly what you are wanting. You have two rather large amazing speakers and want to be able to enjoy a surround experience without breaking the bank or having to have a huge theater to do it in. If you want to get surround experience (insert your favorite brand and price point here) and enjoy what its all about! It will be much better than watching it with 2 channel stereo...

                        I say ignore the B&W "purists" here. Its your pocketbook and your room. If you go a cheaper route now you can always upgrade. Its no sin to mix and match. :T


                        Flame suit on :
                        B&W

                        Comment

                        • emig5m
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 646

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Race Car Driver
                          I say ignore the B&W "purists" here. Its your pocketbook and your room. If you go a cheaper route now you can always upgrade. Its no sin to mix and match. :T


                          Flame suit on :
                          Well I mixed and matched for years and enjoyed every movie I watched, but there's something to say when you have matched up speakers. The sound stops coming from pin-point locations and sounds more like real life "spacial" sound. When I got my first matched up system I really learned how much better and realistic it sounds when you're timbre matched and instead of the sound coming from these five pin-point locations, it's just there, all around you, from everywhere.... (this is not a flame by the way :lol: )

                          Comment

                          • Race Car Driver
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 1537

                            #14
                            Originally posted by emig5m
                            Well I mixed and matched for years and enjoyed every movie I watched, but there's something to say when you have matched up speakers. The sound stops coming from pin-point locations and sounds more like real life "spacial" sound. When I got my first matched up system I really learned how much better and realistic it sounds when you're timbre matched and instead of the sound coming from these five pin-point locations, it's just there, all around you, from everywhere.... (this is not a flame by the way :lol: )
                            I agree timber matching is important. I also agree matched componets is ideal, however sometimes that cant be an option. There are always sacrifices that are made.

                            When I had my N802, NHTM1 and NSCM1's the multi channel music was very nice to listen to, I enjoyed it very much. But the Klipsch surrounds did a much better job IMO for movies.

                            I guess having several different setups from a full matched B&W setup to a mix matched B&W/Klipsch 7.2 setup I can say that its not as bad as everyone thinks. The large B&W centers sure are nice, if you can swing it space and money wise go for it. However having a nice 8 series 2 channel setup and wanting to add some cheaper smaller non matched speakers to get the surround experience is possible and it can be enjoyable. Hell, if the D series center is too spendy and you can squeeze the room Id say get a NHTM1 if the money is there.

                            Just remember, you have two 802Ds, that is always a good thing. 8)
                            Last edited by Race Car Driver; 26 November 2009, 12:54 Thursday.
                            B&W

                            Comment

                            • vinylmeister
                              Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 37

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Race Car Driver
                              Just remember, you have two 802Ds, that is always a good thing. 8)
                              I fully agree with this statement, since I have the two 802D I got rid of all the home cinema speakers. The 802D's put the voices exactly in the center where my TV has been setup. I guess that a seperate center speaker is only needed when your tv-screen is off-center :-(
                              Marantz SA-11S2 -> Cardas Golden Presence -> Classe CP-500 -> Cardas Quadlink -> CA-2200 -> Cardas Quadlink -> B&W 802d

                              Comment

                              • Glenee
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 253

                                #16
                                If you have to use something smaller and need Speaker matching adjustability the Aerial CC3B center will get"er Done.

                                Comment

                                • timjclark
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Apr 2009
                                  • 104

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by emig5m
                                  Definitely get the matching center to your speakers and make it work. If you have the 802D you obviously care about your sound quality, heh. I currently can't wall mount (window directly behind TV) so I modified an old aquarium stand to hold the TV and center speaker:

                                  Get the matching center, you'll find a way to make it work once you get it...
                                  Emig5m,

                                  I am guessing that you have your HTM3S protruding out the front of your stand to let the tweeter have some breathing room as opposed to being space confined with the depth of the speaker, right? Can you speak to the differences that you heard by having the speaker out the front?

                                  How far out is your speaker from the front edge of the stand? Do you have something supporting the base of the speaker?

                                  The reason that I ask is that I just installed a new HTM4S under my TV and have it flush to the front of my stand. My previous center channel was a LCR3 and I'm not hearing a huge improvement yet. The 4S only has about 8 hours of usage so far, so that is probably a factor as well.

                                  Thank you. Sorry for the thread tangent, but this picture spoke to me...
                                  -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
                                  -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
                                  -Rotel: RSP-1069
                                  -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

                                  Office system:
                                  -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
                                  -B&W LM-1, AS-1

                                  Comment

                                  • DM3000 Owner
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jun 2006
                                    • 475

                                    #18
                                    I am a hard core 2 channel listener.

                                    After a long time of thinking of a way to cram in an HT I decuided to go with an all in wall surround system using Klipsch speakers after hearing them at a friends house. I really want my living room to look nice and not hacked together. If I decide to say, replace the front three with a matched set, it is simply a matter of unhooking a few wires, and if I sell the house it has a nice built in system that can be powered a a cheap receiver by the next owner. The in-walls blend in so well that you do nto even notice them.

                                    Comment

                                    • emig5m
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Aug 2008
                                      • 646

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by timjclark
                                      Emig5m,

                                      I am guessing that you have your HTM3S protruding out the front of your stand to let the tweeter have some breathing room as opposed to being space confined with the depth of the speaker, right? Can you speak to the differences that you heard by having the speaker out the front?

                                      How far out is your speaker from the front edge of the stand? Do you have something supporting the base of the speaker?

                                      The reason that I ask is that I just installed a new HTM4S under my TV and have it flush to the front of my stand. My previous center channel was a LCR3 and I'm not hearing a huge improvement yet. The 4S only has about 8 hours of usage so far, so that is probably a factor as well.

                                      Thank you. Sorry for the thread tangent, but this picture spoke to me...
                                      The only two ways I've tried is what you see in the pic (I modified my makeshift TV/aquarium stand to fit and angle the speaker like you see in the pic as soon as I got the speaker home) and sitting on top of the stand with the display removed. I expected to maybe hear a big difference with the center sitting on top with the TV removed having it more level with the mains and your ears but not too much of a noticeable difference there. I think as long as you can have the drivers out of the front as much as possible (mine is 3.5" out from front for the tweeter and 5" at center of the midrange) and angle more towards your ear you should be fine.

                                      Under the base of the speaker is two layers of that non-slip rubbery stuff that you buy in rolls and cut to fit what ever you want (most people use it for shelving or keeping throw rugs from slipping on hard wood flooring - actually the stuff I'm using is specifically for keeping rugs from slipping on flooring because I bought the roll with a rug and it's twice as thin as the regular shelving stuff hence why I'm using two layers instead of one). I would imagine having the speaker drivers totally on the inside of a cubby would sound like if your put you head inside a cardboard box and talked it would sound very boxy and constrained.

                                      Comment

                                      • timjclark
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Apr 2009
                                        • 104

                                        #20
                                        Thanks Emig5m!
                                        I would have thought with the speaker sticking 5" out from the front of the shelf, that you would have needed to extend the shelf itself to keep the speaker supported...

                                        I'll see how far forward I can get my htm4s tonight and see if it makes a material difference. My rack is an open air rack on all 4 sides, so my only concern is really above the tweeter. Right now, there is about 1" space between the tweeter and the shelf above.

                                        I sure wish I had the room (and budget) for the htm3s, but I think the 4s is going to be just fine for my needs...
                                        -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
                                        -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
                                        -Rotel: RSP-1069
                                        -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

                                        Office system:
                                        -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
                                        -B&W LM-1, AS-1

                                        Comment

                                        • Relentless
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jul 2007
                                          • 317

                                          #21
                                          I don't think the HTM2D is deeper then the 802D's, can you fit it between the mains if you put it on a stand in front of the display?
                                          I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive safely at death...
                                          Lou

                                          Comment

                                          • aarsoe
                                            Senior Member
                                            • May 2004
                                            • 795

                                            #22
                                            If space is an issue I would recommend to take a look at the XT center. Not to far off sound wise + small and good looking.
                                            However you will need something powerful to drive it. As any smaller unit it will require more power to make the same sound - volume wise as your 802D's. But the XTC will do the job if you have those constraints and add a few extra DB's on the setup compared to the ideal surround settings..

                                            Comment

                                            • emig5m
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Aug 2008
                                              • 646

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by timjclark
                                              Thanks Emig5m!
                                              I would have thought with the speaker sticking 5" out from the front of the shelf, that you would have needed to extend the shelf itself to keep the speaker supported...
                                              Oh ok... I thought you meant what I use under the speaker base for dampening between the speaker and shelf and not the shelf itself. Basically what I did is unbolt and take the bottom shelf off and re-drill new holes with the shelf hanging out from the front and angled up. Here's another pic I already have uploaded that shows the shelf sticking out underneath the speaker:

                                              Comment

                                              • tyreman
                                                Junior Member
                                                • Dec 2009
                                                • 29

                                                #24
                                                I haven't got a center
                                                Tried it and went between with and not.

                                                Comment

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