As if Jon's skull weren't big enough.....!

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  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    As if Jon's skull weren't big enough.....!



    The speaker in the lower right hand corner is the much talked about M8aMKIV.

    Run out and buy several dozen copies of the magazine to boost sales and Jon's ego :T :T :T

    Seriously though, the article is a treatise on proper loudspeaker design. Should be required reading for the DIY crowd or anyone that want's an understanding of the who/what/where/why/how of loudspeaker design.

    Note that the article is in 3 parts the Sept issue has part 1




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson
  • PMazz
    Senior Member
    • May 2001
    • 861

    #2
    Congrats!!!

    I hope you guys still remember your roots after you're stars.

    Seriously, couldn't have happened to nicer folks. I'll look for the mag.

    Pete
    Birth of a Media Center

    Comment

    • Pat
      Super Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 1637

      #3
      Very cool! :T

      I'll try to find one around here.




      Pat's Page
      Pat's Page

      Comment

      • Hank
        Super Senior Member
        • Jul 2002
        • 1345

        #4
        Will Jon still write to us? Will he remember the little people?

        Congratulations Jon! Nice to see a Poohbah published! Thomas, I haven't seen the mag yet - did you contribute to this project? You should be published too - perhaps a cabinet construction article, as you are talented.

        The Grand Poohbahs deserve recognition, not only for their skills and talents, but also because they are NICE guys with seemingly non-inflated egos.

        I'm having a proud moment.

        Comment

        • Andrew Pratt
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 16507

          #5
          Cool I have to have that magazine given I built the M8a's. Congrats Jon on it finally being published:T




          Comment

          • Brian Bunge
            Super Senior Member
            • Nov 2001
            • 1389

            #6
            Pretty damn cool! Is the issue out yet? I haven't received mine but I may have let my subscription expire. The one thing I hate is that the notices they send never tells you exactly when the subscription is up and since they start sending notices damn near 6 months ahead of time I'm never sure.

            Comment

            • ThomasW
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 10934

              #7
              Brian

              I haven't received by issue either. I'm guessing they put the cover on their website. but haven't mailed out the mag yet.




              theAudioWorx
              Klone-Audio

              IB subwoofer FAQ page


              "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15261

                #8
                Well, even I'm curious to see it, though I reviewed their edits and supplied updated materials on some graphics just recently!

                It's hard to believe that this project started two years ago- when the first M8 set was built for my (at that point) suddenly former boss, who was required to move to Detroit or be without a job. Eventually he got another job at Infineon back here in San Jose, after six months in Detroit. Work sure is fun, isn't it, folks?

                Motto: slow work takes time. Magazine articles take even longer...


                And I still haven't done the final "tweaks" on the MkII version; been meaning to get around to that for over a year!


                Best regards,

                Jon




                Earth First!
                _______________________________
                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                the AudioWorx
                Natalie P
                M8ta
                Modula Neo DCC
                Modula MT XE
                Modula Xtreme
                Isiris
                Wavecor Ardent

                SMJ
                Minerva Monitor
                Calliope
                Ardent D

                In Development...
                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                Obi-Wan
                Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                Modula PWB
                Calliope CC Supreme
                Natalie P Ultra
                Natalie P Supreme
                Janus BP1 Sub


                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • Hank
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 1345

                  #9
                  And I still haven't done the final "tweaks" on the MkII version; been meaning to get around to that for over a year!
                  Methinks I perceive a follow-up article.

                  Comment

                  • Davey
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 355

                    #10
                    I received my copy yesterday and just finished reading the article. I learned a lot. Excellent work Jon.

                    Davey.

                    Comment

                    • ThomasW
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 10934

                      #11
                      Hank,

                      I helped others build some of the M8aMKIII&MKIV's and proof read the early drafts of the article. But that's the extent of my direct contribution. The articles are exclusively Jon's baby.




                      theAudioWorx
                      Klone-Audio

                      IB subwoofer FAQ page


                      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                      Comment

                      • Dennis H
                        Ultra Senior Member
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 3791

                        #12
                        Will the article ever be on their web site or elsewhere in the public domain? I don't have access to the magazine here in my small town.

                        Comment

                        • ThomasW
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 10934

                          #13
                          Dennis,

                          We can't provide copies of the article as long as it's being offered by AudioXpress. And they sell back issues for many, many ears. so that limits public domain availability.

                          A single issue is $7.00 over the counter, and this is a 3 part article so $21 for the whole thing. You can subscribe for $35/yr




                          theAudioWorx
                          Klone-Audio

                          IB subwoofer FAQ page


                          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                          Comment

                          • Jack Gilvey
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2001
                            • 510

                            #14
                            Congrats! I think I can find this at Border's books...

                            Comment

                            • Dennis H
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Aug 2002
                              • 3791

                              #15
                              Thanks Thomas. I've been traveling/moving a lot lately (listening to headphones - yuck) so I can't handle a subscription. I'll probably just order the single issues.

                              Comment

                              • Mark K
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 388

                                #16
                                Jon,

                                Great part 1. Bummer that we have to wait for installments 2 and 3. I'm curious to see how it measures to see how well these "eclectic " xovers work.

                                As a starting point, can I just use the topology you referred to in the article and use a 6th or 8th order LR target in LspCAD?

                                You know, maybe I could use this topology to pull off 1.75k-2k with the xt19, which, as you know, is the superior tweeter :tomato:
                                www.audioheuristics.org

                                Comment

                                • Brian Bunge
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2001
                                  • 1389

                                  #17
                                  I received my issue today! Very nice article so far. One of the best I've read on designing a speaker the 6 or so years I've had a subscription. I can't wait to get the next two issues! 8)

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 15261

                                    #18
                                    As a starting point, can I just use the topology you referred to in the article and use a 6th or 8th order LR target in LspCAD?
                                    Yup, that's pretty much exactly what I do- optimizing from about 1 octave in the passband away from the corner frequency, to about the -36 dB point past the corner. Then, sometimes a little hand tweaking for the crossover notch frequency, and to tune the Q of the notch to minimize the bounce back.

                                    Yes, I'm a bit curious to hear what an XT19 sounds like with a good midwoofer someday, too! :yesnod:


                                    ~Jon




                                    Earth First!
                                    _______________________________
                                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                    the AudioWorx
                                    Natalie P
                                    M8ta
                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                    Modula MT XE
                                    Modula Xtreme
                                    Isiris
                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                    SMJ
                                    Minerva Monitor
                                    Calliope
                                    Ardent D

                                    In Development...
                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                    Obi-Wan
                                    Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                    Modula PWB
                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                    Comment

                                    • ThomasW
                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 10934

                                      #19
                                      I just received the Oct issue with part II of the article. Lots more direct hands on how-to info in the part




                                      theAudioWorx
                                      Klone-Audio

                                      IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                      Comment

                                      • Brian Bunge
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Nov 2001
                                        • 1389

                                        #20
                                        Thomas,

                                        Yep, I just got mine on Saturday. Another great article. I don't quite understand Jon's reasoning for going with a 45 degree chamfer for the port's through hole though. I just cut the port hole to 5.25" for a 3" flared port and then use a 1/2" rabbeting bit to cut the recess to flush the flange up with the cabinet. Makes for a nice, tight fit.

                                        Brian

                                        Comment

                                        • PMazz
                                          Senior Member
                                          • May 2001
                                          • 861

                                          #21
                                          Jeez, I just found the first part 3 days ago.

                                          BTW, good stuff Jon. Now I can brag "The guy that wrote this article helped me with my speakers".

                                          Pete
                                          Birth of a Media Center

                                          Comment

                                          • JonMarsh
                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 15261

                                            #22
                                            Hey, thanks for the kind words- glad you feel that way. But you do a pretty bang up job on your own...

                                            Any updates or fine tuning to your dipole rig?

                                            Best regards,

                                            Jon




                                            Earth First!
                                            _______________________________
                                            We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                            the AudioWorx
                                            Natalie P
                                            M8ta
                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                            Modula MT XE
                                            Modula Xtreme
                                            Isiris
                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                            SMJ
                                            Minerva Monitor
                                            Calliope
                                            Ardent D

                                            In Development...
                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                            Obi-Wan
                                            Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                            Modula PWB
                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                            Comment

                                            • ThomasW
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 10934

                                              #23
                                              Brian

                                              Jon's technique just used the 45degree bit to create a better match between the hole in the baffle and the slope of the port flare.




                                              theAudioWorx
                                              Klone-Audio

                                              IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                              "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                              Comment

                                              • PMazz
                                                Senior Member
                                                • May 2001
                                                • 861

                                                #24
                                                Any updates or fine tuning to your dipole rig?
                                                I installed the 600 Hz xover mod to the XM-9. Haven't measured yet. I'm having too much fun listening.

                                                I've also been wondering if the wings extending from the front baffle have affected the response. My ears tell me the smaller wings of the old baffle sounded better.

                                                One of these days I'll get it right.

                                                Pete
                                                Birth of a Media Center

                                                Comment

                                                • ThomasW
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 10934

                                                  #25
                                                  I've also been wondering if the wings extending from the front baffle have affected the response.
                                                  The wider the wings, the lower the frequencies that they reinforce. Asymetrical/tapered baffles spread the reinforcement over a wider range of frequencies.




                                                  theAudioWorx
                                                  Klone-Audio

                                                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                                  Comment

                                                  • PMazz
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • May 2001
                                                    • 861

                                                    #26
                                                    I'm wondering if the wider wings may also change the dipole radiation pattern? Just a guess, but there's more going on, I think, then just a response anomaly. Maybe it has to do with having the ribbon offset to allow room for the Daytons?

                                                    Pete
                                                    Birth of a Media Center

                                                    Comment

                                                    • ThomasW
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 10934

                                                      #27
                                                      Your old system with the bottom mounted woofer had a symetrical dispersion pattern due to the symetrical shape of the baffle. The new design with the line array of midwoofers will have an asymetrical dispersion because of the baffle is wider on one side compared to the other.




                                                      theAudioWorx
                                                      Klone-Audio

                                                      IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                                      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                                      Comment

                                                      • PMazz
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • May 2001
                                                        • 861

                                                        #28
                                                        Thanks Tom. I've got more questions....naturally, but I've hijacked this thread long enough.

                                                        If we keep going Jon's skull may start to shrink back down to size.....and we can't have that.

                                                        Pete
                                                        Birth of a Media Center

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Davey
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Jan 2003
                                                          • 355

                                                          #29
                                                          Pete,

                                                          Do you have a photo of your system with the wider wings? I couldn't find it in the original thread.

                                                          Wider wings will definitely change the polar response. It will widen. The rear wave adds with the front at off-axis angles so you'll get more reverberant energy even though the on-axis measurments might look good. EQ'ing the polar response is not possible since it would affect the on-axis response.

                                                          Varying the baffle shapes/width to keep the polar response uniform is the essence of dipole design. This is something Linkwitz has been investigating and experimenting with for quite awhile. I'm just a neophyte, but I'm really starting to appreciate how tricky this is.

                                                          I think the basic design of dipoles is just so much superior to anything else that even if you don't do it optimally it's still better than most everythng else.

                                                          Cheers,

                                                          Davey.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • PMazz
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • May 2001
                                                            • 861

                                                            #30
                                                            Davey, let's continue this in my thread on the LAs.

                                                            Thanks

                                                            Pete
                                                            Birth of a Media Center

                                                            Comment

                                                            • John Holmes
                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                              • 2703

                                                              #31
                                                              Hey, Congrats Jon on being published!




                                                              "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                                                              "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                                                              Comment

                                                              • JonMarsh
                                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                • 15261

                                                                #32
                                                                Thanks John! It was a lot of work, but a lot of fun, also.

                                                                In Houston yeseterday and today, on business... sure could use some vacataion days to work on the M8ta's! ThomasW has a special name for those, but it's not very politically correct...

                                                                Regards,

                                                                Jon




                                                                Earth First!
                                                                _______________________________
                                                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                                the AudioWorx
                                                                Natalie P
                                                                M8ta
                                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                                Modula MT XE
                                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                                Isiris
                                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                                SMJ
                                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                                Calliope
                                                                Ardent D

                                                                In Development...
                                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                Obi-Wan
                                                                Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                Modula PWB
                                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                Comment

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