Highway to Heaven, My 804's Experience.

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  • Opus007
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2007
    • 454

    Highway to Heaven, My 804's Experience.

    My local dealer looks to be closing its doors on the New Year so I found a new dealer within a 80 mile radius.Having the day off yesterday I took a trip down the highway and found my new dealer.My old dealer had a very small store and I was amazed at the size of the building when I got there.It was a old movie theater I was later to find out.Just walking in the door I was totally blown away.My old dealer has 2 listening rooms with not much of anything now a days.This new dealer had a show room with about 12 listening setups and 5 actual demo rooms for listing.He was a elder gentlemen and a very nice soft spoken person.He told me had been in business for about 40 years and even with the economy he is going to hang on as it is his life and passion.
    The first thing I noticed was a pair of B&W 803's setup with a McIntosh music server and pre and amp.But what I was interested in was the 804's .We went to a back listening room and he put on some jazz.Automatically I did not like these speakers.They where so thin in the bottom end it was terrible.They where playing through a NAD receiver and cdp.I then went and listened to the 803's with all the McIntosh gear and though it was so smooth ..well to me it was just too smooth but nice.I then listened to some paradigm speakers with a rotel pre and amp and all though nice just was not me.He was so helpful and only had 1 customer the whole 4 hours I was there and accommodated me in every way.Since I have the 683's I decided to give the pair he had a listen.I do not know why but I kept thinking about the 804's as those where the speakers I had come to audition and kept thinking about emig5m's review of his newly acquired 804's.Anyway He suggested we move the 804's to the room with the 683's which was not actually a room but a corner of the building with a front wall ,a side wall and a partial side wall, and open in the back.When we went to move the speakers He said I feel so stupid.It appeared that one of the jumpers for the lower end on left speaker was not connected.So after fixing that and moving them to where the 683's where I settled in for some more listening.I had brought the Best of the Scorpions cd and a Ozzie Osbourn .First though we put in some of his disks ,all jazz and listened to the 804's first.First thing I noticed was they where not thin anymore due to the jumper.My first real impression was one of awe.They had a amazing sound stage and music just sounded so life like and enthralling.The 804's drew me into the music.I did not listen to them long as I wanted to get a feel of the 683's again.The 683's and 804's where side by side so all we had to do was move the speaker cable from one to another.This demo was done on a NAD pre and amp.When I played the 683's the first thing I noticed was the bass.The 683's seemed to have more bass and it was extended.It also seemed to have a larger sound stage.The mids seemed clear but not as distinct and open as the 804's.The highs seemed a little harsher in certain passages especially on the rock music.So we swapped back to the 804's.After listening to the 683's with the same material I was blown away this time listening to the 804's.The mids where spot on and tonal quality was outstanding.The highs even with rock music did not have the edginess the 683's exhibited.The bass was clear and tight and more correct.The sound stage was different but actually better as with further listening what the 683's where doing was giving a extended bass that was muddier which seemed to make the 683's have a better sound stage but in reality is was just filling the room with more bass.After doing some more a/b between the 2 all I can say is the 804's present the music in a tonal quality that is enthralling and amazing.The 683's are a fine speaker and well worth their price but the 804's are worth their weight in gold.I have never been pulled into the music with 683's as I was with the 804's.Even when I got home and fired up my 683's I just could not get the sound of those sweet sound speakers out of my head.
    Since I run Rotel gear we also hooked the 804's up to a Rotel 1057 receiver to get a idea of what I can expect with my Rotel gear and again the 804's did not let me down and actually was better than with the NAD gear.
    My new high end store has everything a audiophile would want.Solid state,tubes,Rotel, McIntosh,Nad,B&W,and lots I never heard of nor could I afford.Just a amazing place and a amazing owner.We worked out a deal on the 804's and this weekend will give him a down payment and make payments till I have them payed off which will probably be February but I am hoping for January.Also the 804's where not broken in so I am hoping for just a tad more bass from them.They probably have 20 hours on them and I can either get that pair or new.
    Anyway that was my highway to heaven. :T
  • ShadowZA
    Super Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 1098

    #2
    Great review experience! The 804S's are fantastic indeed. Good luck with your payments and get ready to enjoy. :T

    Comment

    • miner
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 900

      #3
      I guarantee that once your 804s reach 100 hrs use you will be amazed at the quality of sound. I have the earlier N804 and just cannot come up with a reason to trade up. These just do it for me. I am using a Rotel RC-1090 pre and RB-1092 amp with them.

      Comment

      • boarder1995
        Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 68

        #4
        Thanks for the review Opus-double-O-7. What color do you have on the way?

        Miner - what do the N804 give up to the 804S? I know the marketing literature will say they improved this and that, but what tonal changes were made? Any personal experience with the older Nautilus versus newer S & D line?

        Comment

        • BlazeMaster
          Senior Member
          • May 2004
          • 644

          #5
          opus007
          where is this dealer that you spoke of? I live in SoCal as well, but gave up trying to audition B&W speakers in this area, none of them has a decent audition room to do these speakers any justice. The dealers that can do these speakers justice are pretty much all "by appointments only." When I lived in NorCal, every B&W dealer has a decent to great audition room and I was surprised when I moved to SoCal, that finding a decent audition room would be so hard.

          Comment

          • Opus007
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2007
            • 454

            #6
            Originally posted by BlazeMaster
            opus007
            where is this dealer that you spoke of? I live in SoCal as well, but gave up trying to audition B&W speakers in this area, none of them has a decent audition room to do these speakers any justice. The dealers that can do these speakers justice are pretty much all "by appointments only." When I lived in NorCal, every B&W dealer has a decent to great audition room and I was surprised when I moved to SoCal, that finding a decent audition room would be so hard.
            He is in San Bernardino .The owners name is David.It is on 474 West Orange Show Road right off the 215.And is called Inland Sound & Cinema.
            It is a wonderful place.If I was a kid it would be like going to Disneyland.
            Tell David that Shaun sent you his way.He will help you in anyway he can and not steer you wrong.Here is his website link http://www.inlandsound.com/

            Comment

            • Opus007
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2007
              • 454

              #7
              Originally posted by boarder1995
              Thanks for the review Opus-double-O-7. What color do you have on the way?

              Miner - what do the N804 give up to the 804S? I know the marketing literature will say they improved this and that, but what tonal changes were made? Any personal experience with the older Nautilus versus newer S & D line?
              Not sure of the color yet but leaning toward rosenut.

              Comment

              • timjclark
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2009
                • 104

                #8
                Hi Shaun,

                Thanks for the review. I have MD-640's and I'm looking to upgrade to either 804S or 803S's very shortly. Since I have the grandfather to your 683's, I would imagine that I'll have a similar experience. That will be the trick though is to compare the new speaker to something akin to what I have now. Having had the 640's for 19 years, they have broken in my ears to the 640 way of making music.

                Although I live in Atlanta, my regular audio store for the past 25 years has been in WI and I was rather shocked when I called the number last week only to find out it has been disconnected; the website is off the air. The last I talked with them was back in April when I purchased a Rotel RSP-1069 from them. It is VERY sad that the smaller shops are closing due to this economy. The bright side for me is that the store here in Atlanta is a bigger store who discounts.

                It sounds like Inland Sound is wonderful place!

                Best of luck with your 804S's!
                -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
                -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
                -Rotel: RSP-1069
                -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

                Office system:
                -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
                -B&W LM-1, AS-1

                Comment

                • Opus007
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 454

                  #9
                  Originally posted by timjclark
                  Hi Shaun,

                  Thanks for the review. I have MD-640's and I'm looking to upgrade to either 804S or 803S's very shortly. Since I have the grandfather to your 683's, I would imagine that I'll have a similar experience. That will be the trick though is to compare the new speaker to something akin to what I have now. Having had the 640's for 19 years, they have broken in my ears to the 640 way of making music.

                  Although I live in Atlanta, my regular audio store for the past 25 years has been in WI and I was rather shocked when I called the number last week only to find out it has been disconnected; the website is off the air. The last I talked with them was back in April when I purchased a Rotel RSP-1069 from them. It is VERY sad that the smaller shops are closing due to this economy. The bright side for me is that the store here in Atlanta is a bigger store who discounts.

                  It sounds like Inland Sound is wonderful place!

                  Best of luck with your 804S's!
                  It is a sign of the times.In the business I am in I have watched at least 10 customers go under.These where thriving businesses which I would of never thought would go under.
                  It is good that there are still some good places for us to go to audition.A 80 mile drive is nothing when the enjoyment is obtained that I seek.Also with the economy here in U.S. the way it is dealers are more apt to give a good deal.And it is a blessing to find a dealer with such knowledge and who will go the extra mile for you.

                  Comment

                  • emig5m
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 646

                    #10
                    I knew it was a matter of time before Opus got the 804S's. :lol: Might as well throw a down payment on a HTM3S while you're at it too because honestly, once you get the 804S's home, it's going to eat at you to have the matching center. The itch will get worse every day, and then you'll wind up getting it anyway. Might as well deal with the financial pain now all at once and get it over and done with, lol. :

                    Things I love about my 800 series is...
                    • They're neutral and very natural sounding. On well recordings, things just sound life-like and real.
                    • They image more 3D like the sound emits from all around the speaker and not so much a pin-point location.
                    • While sounding natural and smooth, they don't give up anything on subtle detail - they have tons of it. (I'm personally a detail freak - longtime headphone listener)
                    • Which all this combined makes them disappear more.


                    One thing that worried me about getting the 800 series (and spending that much money for them) is the talk about the 600's being more bassy. I like bass as much as mids and highs. It makes the sound, well, sound full. I was worried that they would sound too thin and make them seem bright. My personal experience is that the bass punch is about the same its just the 800's sound cleaner/tigher like they're better dampened and less peaky. But IMO they definitely don't sacrifice punch (or at least "full-ness").

                    Another thing was how some people talked about the 600's being sharper or brighter and the 800's being more laid back. That made me think that they might seem to have less detail and sound dull. This isn't the case at all. A better way to explain the 800's is that they sound more natural, life-like, and realistic, and all the fine detail is there but it's not like fake detail like when you take a cheaper system and try to extract or add detail by overly boosting the treble. They WILL show you every single bit of detail, and sadly every flaw which brings me to the only thing I can say I dislike about having the 800 series....

                    You'll now be more brick-walled by the recording quality and not speakers. You can hear such a wide range of recording qualities. Like say in a stock car system every single song on the radio sounds like the same quality of recording. Same dynamics, and everything. Now take them same songs and play them back on the something like the 800 series, now some of those recordings can just drop your jaw they're so clean, clear, dynamic, and realistic sounding. And then on the other hand some can sadly make it seem worse then the cheap car system since less is held back by the speakers and as much as they'll show every detail, they'll also show every flaw (kinda like watching VHS on a 1080P HDTV).

                    Opus mentioned he auditioned with Ozzy. I love Ozzy, I think I have every one of his CD's, but honestly, Ozzy wont reveal the full potential of the 800 series in my opinion. I think for rock Pink Floyd has much better recording quality than Ozzy.

                    I thought at this price point there would be definite buyers remorse. And when I get it, I get it bad! I actually brought back a vehicle that I purchased and had for an entire weekend to get my trade in back, hehe. I can honestly say that my B&W 800 series is one of the few real expensive things I've ever bought that's gave me the most happiness for my dollar. The newness just never wears off... that's one good sign that it was money well spent.

                    Comment

                    • Hammie
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 304

                      #11
                      Congrats on the 804's. I also love my Rosenut 804's.

                      I have recently moved from listening to a 2.1 to a 2.0 by going Direct instead of the Stereo setting with the sub enabled. Although I don't have the rumble of the really low-end bass, I've been extremely happy with the performance.

                      I also have a tentative approval from the wife to possibly upgrade to the 803D/HTM2D combo before my one year trade-up expires next September. So, we'll see if I still want to upgrade at that time. My dealer has been asking when I want a pair to demo in house to help move the decision with the wife along.

                      Anyway, congrats again and can't wait to hear your impressions once you get them home and into your setup.
                      Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                      Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                      Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                      Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                      B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                      Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                      My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                      Next Upgrade: Cables

                      Comment

                      • Opus007
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 454

                        #12
                        Originally posted by emig5m
                        I knew it was a matter of time before Opus got the 804S's. :lol: Might as well throw a down payment on a HTM3S while you're at it too because honestly, once you get the 804S's home, it's going to eat at you to have the matching center. The itch will get worse every day, and then you'll wind up getting it anyway. Might as well deal with the financial pain now all at once and get it over and done with, lol. :

                        Things I love about my 800 series is...
                        • They're neutral and very natural sounding. On well recordings, things just sound life-like and real.
                        • They image more 3D like the sound emits from all around the speaker and not so much a pin-point location.
                        • While sounding natural and smooth, they don't give up anything on subtle detail - they have tons of it. (I'm personally a detail freak - longtime headphone listener)
                        • Which all this combined makes them disappear more.


                        One thing that worried me about getting the 800 series (and spending that much money for them) is the talk about the 600's being more bassy. I like bass as much as mids and highs. It makes the sound, well, sound full. I was worried that they would sound too thin and make them seem bright. My personal experience is that the bass punch is about the same its just the 800's sound cleaner/tigher like they're better dampened and less peaky. But IMO they definitely don't sacrifice punch (or at least "full-ness").

                        Another thing was how some people talked about the 600's being sharper or brighter and the 800's being more laid back. That made me think that they might seem to have less detail and sound dull. This isn't the case at all. A better way to explain the 800's is that they sound more natural, life-like, and realistic, and all the fine detail is there but it's not like fake detail like when you take a cheaper system and try to extract or add detail by overly boosting the treble. They WILL show you every single bit of detail, and sadly every flaw which brings me to the only thing I can say I dislike about having the 800 series....

                        You'll now be more brick-walled by the recording quality and not speakers. You can hear such a wide range of recording qualities. Like say in a stock car system every single song on the radio sounds like the same quality of recording. Same dynamics, and everything. Now take them same songs and play them back on the something like the 800 series, now some of those recordings can just drop your jaw they're so clean, clear, dynamic, and realistic sounding. And then on the other hand some can sadly make it seem worse then the cheap car system since less is held back by the speakers and as much as they'll show every detail, they'll also show every flaw (kinda like watching VHS on a 1080P HDTV).

                        Opus mentioned he auditioned with Ozzy. I love Ozzy, I think I have every one of his CD's, but honestly, Ozzy wont reveal the full potential of the 800 series in my opinion. I think for rock Pink Floyd has much better recording quality than Ozzy.

                        I thought at this price point there would be definite buyers remorse. And when I get it, I get it bad! I actually brought back a vehicle that I purchased and had for an entire weekend to get my trade in back, hehe. I can honestly say that my B&W 800 series is one of the few real expensive things I've ever bought that's gave me the most happiness for my dollar. The newness just never wears off... that's one good sign that it was money well spent.
                        emig5m
                        You know this is all your fault.Ever since I have read your review I have been wondering.But this is actually a good thing.My683's and HTM62 will be on audiogon by tomorrow to help offset some of the cost.Right now I have some older speakers and center channel setup till I can get my 804's home and this setup will do for now knowing what is coming.I have already thought about the HTM3s and also auditioned that so that is going to be in the works when I get the 804's.
                        I was going to give the dealer half this weekend but will be waiting till next weekend as I will be going down there to give one more listen and this time will be taking some Van Morrison,Pink Floyd,Sade,Smashing Pumpkins,and the Allman Brothers cd's.I have just got to have one more listen before I pull the gun on them.(Not to be meant as I am going to rob them.)I did call the dealer again today and he said no problem,Come on down.But I am 99% sure I will come away broke but happy knowing that soon those beauties will be in my house.
                        Oh and one more thing...please do not upgrade and write another glowing review as it is hard keeping up with you. ;x(

                        Comment

                        • emig5m
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 646

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Opus007
                          emig5m
                          You know this is all your fault.Ever since I have read your review I have been wondering.
                          Cool... I'll just fax this page over to B&W to collect my sales commission then, hehe. :B I'll take 45% off on a pair of 805S's to replace my 685's. Nah... I knew all of us 683 owners where "wondering". I was just the one to be the guinea pig and take the plunge, heh.

                          Originally posted by Opus007
                          I was going to give the dealer half this weekend but will be waiting till next weekend as I will be going down there to give one more listen and this time will be taking some Van Morrison,Pink Floyd,Sade,Smashing Pumpkins,and the Allman Brothers cd's.I have just got to have one more listen before I pull the gun on them.(Not to be meant as I am going to rob them.)I did call the dealer again today and he said no problem,Come on down.But I am 99% sure I will come away broke but happy knowing that soon those beauties will be in my house.
                          It will probably always be better once you get them home. You might not think it's a distraction, but a salesmen being there, heck, maybe even the 80 mile drive can be fatiguing enough to throw your concentration off. Once you get them in the comfort of your own home and be more relaxed and be able to listen to any and all of your music collection at your own leisure...it will be much better than being at a store.

                          Originally posted by Opus007
                          Oh and one more thing...please do not upgrade and write another glowing review as it is hard keeping up with you. ;x(
                          Actually, come to think of it, I am kinda "wondering" what a FST midrange sounds like in the Marlan head with the diamond tweeter over the 804S's FST in a cabinet and the aluminum tweeter. :rofl: I'm thinkin' a little more open and 3D mids with a little more transparent top-end. :B :

                          Comment

                          • miner
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 900

                            #14
                            Originally posted by boarder1995
                            Thanks for the review Opus-double-O-7. What color do you have on the way?

                            Miner - what do the N804 give up to the 804S? I know the marketing literature will say they improved this and that, but what tonal changes were made? Any personal experience with the older Nautilus versus newer S & D line?
                            I can't answer for sure but I believe the 804S had an upgraded crossover but I also think the drivers are the same. I have not compared the N to the S side-by-side.

                            Comment

                            • miner
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 900

                              #15
                              Originally posted by boarder1995
                              Thanks for the review Opus-double-O-7. What color do you have on the way?

                              Miner - what do the N804 give up to the 804S? I know the marketing literature will say they improved this and that, but what tonal changes were made? Any personal experience with the older Nautilus versus newer S & D line?
                              I can't answer for sure but I believe the 804S had an upgraded crossover but I also think the drivers are the same. I have not compared the N to the S side-by-side.

                              Comment

                              • boarder1995
                                Member
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 68

                                #16
                                Ok Miner. Thanks.
                                Ok Miner. Thanks.
                                Figured since you answered twice, I'd thank you twice! Oh, and I noticed you're in Katy...I'm in Houston, NW side. What B&W dealer you go to? Modia?

                                So, some dealers are letting you take them home? I've asked one here and even offered to pay FULL price to demo the demo pair at my house - nope. I can buy a pair new and try them, but I'd have to take a 10% hit if I return. Not what I want to do. I'll re-ask and indicate others do it and if they want my business then that's what it'll take.

                                Marlan head...mmmmm, tasty. Otherwise known as the bowling ball speakers by my wife.

                                Comment

                                • Opus007
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2007
                                  • 454

                                  #17
                                  Uh oh...I should never read reviews dagnabit.I think I may have to go re-audition on Saturday.I did like the amazing sound of the 804s .....but I did feel a little lacking in the bass but thought it due to the low hours on the speakers. Have been reading reviews and it seems the lack of bass is a trait of the 804s.I did listen to a pair of 803s when I was there but was not pleased with them and I am thinking that was due to the all McIntosh gear powering them which to me was just way to layed back.So I thinking I may have to go give the 803s another listen and compare them to the 804s.The thing is I do like my bass.And even though the 683's bass at times is over powering I do like that.I could live with having to pay the extra 1500 especially if it would keep me from second guessing myself all the time.What a dilemma.

                                  Comment

                                  • timjclark
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Apr 2009
                                    • 104

                                    #18
                                    Hey Opus,

                                    I am thinking the same thing about bass on the 804S VS 803S based on reviews. My plan is to audition both of them side by side to get a real understanding of them. Coming from my 640's, I suspect the 804S will be a bit shyer on the bass. If all goes well, I'm taking Monday off to spend some quality time with the 804/803s.

                                    I have no clue (or budget yet) for upgrading my center channel. I wonder if I'd be better off with a virtual center with the 804/803 as opposed to using my LCR3 until such that time I can afford to do it right. Of course doing it right means changing my furniture under the TV which I just bought this spring - DOH!
                                    -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
                                    -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
                                    -Rotel: RSP-1069
                                    -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

                                    Office system:
                                    -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
                                    -B&W LM-1, AS-1

                                    Comment

                                    • Opus007
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2007
                                      • 454

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by timjclark
                                      Hey Opus,

                                      I am thinking the same thing about bass on the 804S VS 803S based on reviews. My plan is to audition both of them side by side to get a real understanding of them. Coming from my 640's, I suspect the 804S will be a bit shyer on the bass. If all goes well, I'm taking Monday off to spend some quality time with the 804/803s.

                                      I have no clue (or budget yet) for upgrading my center channel. I wonder if I'd be better off with a virtual center with the 804/803 as opposed to using my LCR3 until such that time I can afford to do it right. Of course doing it right means changing my furniture under the TV which I just bought this spring - DOH!
                                      Some think using phantom a center is the way to go.I personally think not.The HTM3s would be a perfect match for the 803s or 804s.But keep in mind that it is a monster.
                                      I can not live with lean bass so thus my thinking of moving up to the 803s.I do not like using a sub with music.A lot will disagree but to me it actually subtracts from the listening experience.So if the 803s will give me bass I can live with and keep the amazing sound of the 804's then I will go with the 803s.If not I may and probably will be looking at alternatives and I do not mean moving up to the D series.I just do not understand why it is so hard to get it all right in one package especially at this price point.But...what may be right to me may not necessarily be right.

                                      Comment

                                      • Opus007
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Nov 2007
                                        • 454

                                        #20
                                        Well I just found out no work today so I am off to the dealer and will report back this evening as this is eating at me.

                                        Comment

                                        • sikoniko
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2003
                                          • 2299

                                          #21
                                          either way you go, you'll want to order a pair of sound anchor stands for the speakers. It will help with bass, soundstage and tighten the sound up.
                                          I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                                          Comment

                                          • htsteve
                                            Super Senior Member
                                            • Sep 2004
                                            • 1216

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by sikoniko
                                            either way you go, you'll want to order a pair of sound anchor stands for the speakers. It will help with bass, soundstage and tighten the sound up.
                                            I agree. I have them under my 804S's and it does help with bass and soundstage.


                                            Hope this helps.

                                            Comment

                                            • emig5m
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Aug 2008
                                              • 646

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Opus007
                                              Some think using phantom a center is the way to go.I personally think not.The HTM3s would be a perfect match for the 803s or 804s.But keep in mind that it is a monster.
                                              I agree with you here. When ever I've tried a phantom center it always sounds like some cheesy half-assed DSP. Sounds like something is out of phase or time. I'd rather use my old HTM61 with my 804S (which I have) then use a phantom center. But this is probably the fault of the DSP chip then the concept.

                                              Originally posted by Opus007
                                              I can not live with lean bass so thus my thinking of moving up to the 803s.
                                              huh... I'm just not hearing the 804S as being leaner in the bass. If the 804S is lean, then the 683 is lean. I know it's not my smaller room because the dealers room was three times the size and the bass sounds the same as in my room - nice and full. Could it be the lack of a nice high current amp? I noticed a increase of bass when I went from the Yamaha's AVR amps to a Emotiva XPA-5 with the 683.

                                              Originally posted by Opus007
                                              I do not like using a sub with music.A lot will disagree but to me it actually subtracts from the listening experience.
                                              You just haven't yet learned to seamlessly integrate a sub... I was the same way, anti-sub for 2-channel music. I thought it was distracting and sounded out of place (which it did at that point) until one day I actually took the time to learn to integrate a sub. It honestly wasn't easy for me, reason why I was so anti-sub for 2-channel music for so long. But after I finally got it for the first time, it got exponentially easier every time afterwards (moving the room around/changing gear/etc.)

                                              A test CD with a sine wave sweep and a SPL meter will help tons with getting the level match between the crossover points. My sub also has a built in auto EQ which helps. I have my sub integrated so seamlessly now that I can change the crossover frequency a couple steps up and down, and turn it on and off and almost not be able to tell any difference until there's something playing with really deep and strong bass or sub-sonic bass. Most music bass sounds nearly the same between my 804 and sub (even 50% of rap music). I CAN feel the bass from my 804S's alone. Even in the dealers demo room that is three times the size, the bass sounded pretty much the same - nice and full sounding. They where running on Conrad Johnson gear.

                                              Originally posted by Opus007
                                              So if the 803s will give me bass I can live with and keep the amazing sound of the 804's then I will go with the 803s.If not I may and probably will be looking at alternatives and I do not mean moving up to the D series.I just do not understand why it is so hard to get it all right in one package especially at this price point.But...what may be right to me may not necessarily be right.
                                              I wouldn't buy ANYTHING until there's no doubt about the purchase. When I heard the 804S, I knew they where the speakers for me. Color choice is what held me back a day from hearing them to ordering them, heh. Take your time, you'll find your speakers...

                                              Comment

                                              • miner
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Mar 2005
                                                • 900

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by boarder1995
                                                Ok Miner. Thanks.
                                                Ok Miner. Thanks.
                                                Figured since you answered twice, I'd thank you twice! Oh, and I noticed you're in Katy...I'm in Houston, NW side. What B&W dealer you go to? Modia?

                                                So, some dealers are letting you take them home? I've asked one here and even offered to pay FULL price to demo the demo pair at my house - nope. I can buy a pair new and try them, but I'd have to take a 10% hit if I return. Not what I want to do. I'll re-ask and indicate others do it and if they want my business then that's what it'll take.

                                                Marlan head...mmmmm, tasty. Otherwise known as the bowling ball speakers by my wife.
                                                Don't know why it posted twice. Yes, Modia; they are the only B&W dealer in town I believe. I am using a ASW800 sub with my N804 and the combo works well. The N804 will take aboout 100 hrs. to break in properly.

                                                Comment

                                                • Opus007
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Nov 2007
                                                  • 454

                                                  #25
                                                  Well I got half way to the dealers and got called into work so had to turn around and got off work just a little while ago so will try again this weekend
                                                  Emig5m....I agree 100 % about taking my time.I just need another good listen.It is a lot of money at least for me and I just need to be sure.I had put my 683's up on the Agon and had a local buyer but canceled the add due to uncertainty.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Opus007
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Nov 2007
                                                    • 454

                                                    #26
                                                    Well almost made a decision today without another listen.I was going to take the drive and give another listen but other things came up so I called the dealer and he could tell I was still undecided and did not want me to rush into it.He suggested next weekend and during the week he will run them in for me and put some time on them.So next Saturday I will decide.
                                                    A long week it will be.....

                                                    Comment

                                                    • emig5m
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                      • 646

                                                      #27
                                                      Heh, I was in same exact boat. I kept thinking back and forth and back and forth for about a month. Almost bought two separate pairs on Audiogon before finally ordering new after finally being able to listen to them at a dealer. I know exactly what you mean about it being a lot of money and wanting to be sure. Been there, done that. Just like me, you have upgraditis, and even though you haven't purchased them yet, there's almost no turning back now, I can tell. You'll basically be driving yourself nuts until you have them. Post pics when you get them! :B

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Opus007
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Nov 2007
                                                        • 454

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by emig5m
                                                        Heh, I was in same exact boat. I kept thinking back and forth and back and forth for about a month. Almost bought two separate pairs on Audiogon before finally ordering new. I know exactly what you mean about it being a lot of money and wanting to be sure. Been there, done that. Just like me, you have upgraditis, and even though you haven't purchased them yet, there's no turning back now, I can tell. You'll basically be driving yourself nuts until you have them. Post pics when you get them! :B
                                                        Unfortunately you are right and I have gone and made my decision.After reading your post about the bass not being shy and sitting here listening to 683's and thinking about the 804's i know I will be giving the dealer half of the money next weekend.I just can not enjoy the 683's like I had been.I listen and think to myself, wow that sounds good but the 804's sounded better.So I just put the 683's back up for sale on the A...gon.Also some interconnects to help me off set the cost.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Opus007
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Nov 2007
                                                          • 454

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by sikoniko
                                                          either way you go, you'll want to order a pair of sound anchor stands for the speakers. It will help with bass, soundstage and tighten the sound up.
                                                          Are these the ones you are talking about http://www.soundanchors.com/page34.html

                                                          Comment

                                                          • htsteve
                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                            • Sep 2004
                                                            • 1216

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Opus007
                                                            Are these the ones you are talking about http://www.soundanchors.com/page34.html
                                                            Yes.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • ZX10 Guy
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Mar 2005
                                                              • 198

                                                              #31
                                                              I think the difference between the S and N 800s are the following: different crossover setup, Rohacell woofers, and the tweeters. In the case of the tweeters, I think they're a derivative of the Signature tweeters. I know for a fact that the tweeter housing is very different between the N and the S. I also seem to recall a slight change in the FST drivers too.

                                                              With regard to the 803S and the 804S, if you're doing purely two channel with no sub, the the 803S would probably be a better choice. In other configurations, I feel the 804s with a sub is going to be a superior setup. If one is considering the 803S, I feel you're better off with saving and stepping up to the 803D.

                                                              Bass. I found my N804s to have pretty good bass. What converted me over to using subs was when I initially paired my N804s with a Velodyne HGS12II. I didn't realize the extension I was getting from the N804s could be a lot better. The bass was somewhat extended but to me was a bit loose and boomy. Adding the sub, locked in the bass extension and to me added to the higher end bass clarity as the woofers weren't pumping as much during loud listening sessions. I now use my N804s with a HGS15II and a DD18.

                                                              The phantom center vs an improperly placed/sized center has been debated ad nauseum. I'm in the camp that if you cannot get a center with the same driver compliment as your left/right mains along with PROPER placement, then you're better off with a phantom. For me uniform tonal quality/balance across the entire front soundstage is monumental. This doesn't even touch the battle over whether horizontal centers are acceptible or not. I ended up with a N HTM1 but if I were to do it all over again, I would have another N804 as my center. As good as the HTM1 is, I can hear slight tonal differences between the HTM1 and the N804 mains. At a minimum, I would say the HTM3S is the only center you should consider but only if you plan on proper placement. Shoving the HTM3S into a cubby hole in an entertainment center is not proper placement.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • timjclark
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Apr 2009
                                                                • 104

                                                                #32
                                                                Hey Opus,

                                                                Where are you at with your speaker upgrade?

                                                                With the new 800's confirmed, this seems like the time to buy the outgoing models. I'll be getting off the fence within the next couple of days and pulling the trigger myself. On what I do not yet know as I have not been to the dealer to listen to the 804S vs 803S.
                                                                -B&W: 803S, HTM4S, M-1
                                                                -Proceed: CDD, PDP, PRE, AMP-2, AMP-3
                                                                -Rotel: RSP-1069
                                                                -Sony: PS3, KDF-E42A10

                                                                Office system:
                                                                -Arcam DV-89, AVR100
                                                                -B&W LM-1, AS-1

                                                                Comment

                                                                • dan87951
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Nov 2005
                                                                  • 379

                                                                  #33
                                                                  I have had a couple of pairs of N804's and were never impressed with them. I found them lacking substance and bass. A buddy of mine has a new pair of 804S's and they completely blew my N804's away. THe 804S's have the Signature tweeter and the upgraded bass driver which really improve bass. Side by side the 804S beat out the N804 in just about everything. The biggest thing we noticed was the improvement in bass. The Nautilus 804's always sounded bright to us. The 804S is what the 804 should have been in the first place! I honestly feel if your are spending $4500 on 804S's spend the extra $1500 and get the 803S's. I'm a big fan of the 803S's especially if you have a bigger room to fill. I know alot will dissagree and say go for the 803D but $15 hundo extra is alot easier to swallow than $45 hundo extra for 803D's. You also won't have to worry about those crazy 1k tweeters! Good Luck with whatever you choose!
                                                                  dan87951
                                                                  audio guru

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • boarder1995
                                                                    Member
                                                                    • Sep 2009
                                                                    • 68

                                                                    #34
                                                                    The 804S has a good punch to the bass, but no where near the depth of the 803S. Side-by-side it was very apparent the 803S really sounds much bigger. That made it easy to step up personally. The 805S, although not great at the bass punch or depth, really didn't fair too poorly compared to the 804S and actually sounded more similar to the 803S regarding midrange tonality. I thought that was odd considering the 804 and 803 share more in common than the 805 does.

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • pazu
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Nov 2009
                                                                      • 77

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Hi everyone.

                                                                      I've a pair of 803S and I love the sounds of these loudspeakers.

                                                                      In my hifi system, it was necessary to wait 300 hours before getting the best sound.

                                                                      The sound is similar than 804S, but with more impressive bass frequency.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • emig5m
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Aug 2008
                                                                        • 646

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by ZX10 Guy
                                                                        Bass. I found my N804s to have pretty good bass. What converted me over to using subs was when I initially paired my N804s with a Velodyne HGS12II. I didn't realize the extension I was getting from the N804s could be a lot better. The bass was somewhat extended but to me was a bit loose and boomy. Adding the sub, locked in the bass extension and to me added to the higher end bass clarity as the woofers weren't pumping as much during loud listening sessions. I now use my N804s with a HGS15II and a DD18.
                                                                        Where do you crossover at to the 804? On my system I'm torn between 80Hz and 60Hz but really can't hear much of a difference between 60 and 100Hz. I have to drop down to 40Hz or up to 110+ to start to hear a truly noticeable difference. It sounds about the cleanest and most transparent set at 60Hz though. The manual for the Sunfire even mentions something about 60Hz being the best to crossover at (I don't think the Sunfires handle higher frequencies well hence why they probably recommend 60 instead of the 80Hz THX standard.) To me it starts to lose it's tightness and get a little boomy after 60Hz and I definitely wouldn't crossover above 80Hz with it. Funny how my ear and what the manual says seem to match up - some consistency for a change!

                                                                        Although my Yamaha's auto eq does set it to 80Hz, it just sounds the most transparent at 60Hz to me (a sine wave sweep reveals a pretty much perfect crossover blend and pretty flat frequency response - well I do have a little dip around 50Hz but it's not too bad). Even though my sub has a auto EQ, I do use a sine wave sweep to make sure I'm getting the flattest response possible and the best blend with the sub and mains. Funny thing is with the 804S by themselves I can easily hear 25Hz out of them with the sine wave sweep...it's just doesn't have the authority, punch, and weight behind it that the powered sub has, heh.

                                                                        It's funny you mention the N804 as boomy and loose because my 804S is the least boomy and tightest speaker in the bass I've ever owned, heh. It's really tight and dampened to me. Now the 683 is more boomy and loose, and some people might even prefer this (rap/hip hop music is where I might prefer the 683's boomier bass - the 804S just doesn't give you the resonated 'boom' much, it's very tight and dampened to me, but not lacking, hard to explain, mainly different, heh).

                                                                        I assume Opus007 didn't get his 804S's or else he would of been back to tell us. When buyers remorse kicks in hard BEFORE you make the purchase, it wasn't meant to be.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Charlieu
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Oct 2008
                                                                          • 55

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by emig5m
                                                                          Where do you crossover at to the 804? On my system I'm torn between 80Hz and 60Hz but really can't hear much of a difference between 60 and 100Hz. I have to drop down to 40Hz or up to 110+ to start to hear a truly noticeable difference. It sounds about the cleanest and most transparent set at 60Hz though. The manual for the Sunfire even mentions something about 60Hz being the best to crossover at (I don't think the Sunfires handle higher frequencies well hence why they probably recommend 60 instead of the 80Hz THX standard.) To me it starts to lose it's tightness and get a little boomy after 60Hz and I definitely wouldn't crossover above 80Hz with it. Funny how my ear and what the manual says seem to match up - some consistency for a change!
                                                                          It's really room and placement dependent. I've played with it over time with a couple of receivers using different settings. I found myself always gravitating back to a 60Hz crossover. I recently picked up an Anthem prepro which uses ARC. This room correction system automatically picks what it believes is the best crossover. In my case, it picked 60Hz. At least my computer and I agree on one thing.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Opus007
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Nov 2007
                                                                            • 454

                                                                            #38
                                                                            As a update you can see my sig has gone back to the 683's.After getting a new rotel rsp 1069 (my other one was defective) I am now truely enjoying the 683's.If I do upgrade it will be sometime next year and I may just hold out to see what the new 800 series is going to offer.I know there will be deals and are deals on the 804's now but I am thinking of saving for the 803 with the new diamond tweeter.But for the price jump it will have to be a vast improvement.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • tyreman
                                                                              Junior Member
                                                                              • Dec 2009
                                                                              • 29

                                                                              #39
                                                                              I run 4 804's and 2 600 series rears
                                                                              They are great the 804's....no doubt about it.

                                                                              Comment

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