Bryston or Moon Simaudio amps for 803d or 802d?

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  • toronto416
    Junior Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 5

    Bryston or Moon Simaudio amps for 803d or 802d?

    I am interested purchasing a high quality 2 channel stereo system. I have a large collection of classical and jazz cds in my 14 x 20 foot library (and no TV!).

    I am interested in supporting high quality Canadian audio manufacturers (where possible), and Bryston and Simaudio Moon products stand-out (at different price points).

    I have listened to many systems, and the speakers that I am considering are either the B&W 803d or 802d. The 803d is a more realistic consideration and probably better considering room size.

    I would consider the following systems with the 803d or he 802d:

    System 1:
    speaker: B&W 803d
    amplification: Moon i-7 integrated (or 700i?), (or Moon P-7 + W-7), or Bryston BP-26 + 4B SST.
    source: Moon SuperNova or Bryston BCD-1 CD player

    System 2:
    speaker: B&W 802d
    amplification: Moon P-7 + W-8, or Bryston BP-26 + 14B SST
    source: Moon SuperNova or Bryston BCD-1 CD player.

    Do the above combinations make sense, and are the electronics appropriately matched to the above speakers?

    Unfortunately there are no dealers in Ontario that carry both Moon Simaudio and B&W, but there are several that carry both Bryston and B&W. As a result I would have to go all Bryston or all Moon Simaudio. Moon Simaudio is probably a cut above Bryston, and more expensive, but would it be a better way to go with the 803d or 802d speakers?

    I look forward to your suggestions.

    Regards,

    Mark
  • SoundEngine355
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2008
    • 313

    #2
    Both are excellent products.

    Its going to be upto the sonics you prefer.

    803D is going to have less low-end compared to the 802D, but nothing a small subwoofer cannot fix.

    Cannot tell you which one, you need to listen to both. Best bet is to loan the Sim/Bryston products and goto a B&W dealer to test.
    SoundEngine355

    -------------------
    [Music] B&W 800D | Classe CDP202 +M400s | Velodyne DD15

    Comment

    • style
      Super Senior Member
      • Feb 2006
      • 1562

      #3
      Hi toronto416,

      My personal chioce will be for the Moon P7 and power ampli W7 is the better choice., weel will be MY CHOICE.

      for the player you can have and save money) a very great unit for a price not high like the Supernova....

      Speaker: the 803D or 802D is not easyto say. i have a 803Dand i'm very happy.
      the 2d or the 3d you don't can make a error.

      Style

      Comment

      • vinylmeister
        Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 37

        #4
        I auditioned both the 803D and 802D, one thing was clear for me. If you like to listen to a "slap that bass", the 802D is the choice and this was my choice.
        You may want the add the CLASSE CA-2200 and CP-500 on your list as well
        Marantz SA-11S2 -> Cardas Golden Presence -> Classe CP-500 -> Cardas Quadlink -> CA-2200 -> Cardas Quadlink -> B&W 802d

        Comment

        • style
          Super Senior Member
          • Feb 2006
          • 1562

          #5
          The Cp500 from Classe (and I have a SSp800 Classe,I love Classe) is not at the level from the Moon!


          The CA2200 I agree too :T but the pre CP500 is a "entry level" vs. the Moon!!



          toronto, you muss listen and decide what is good FOR YOU, what you prefer....

          Style

          Comment

          • Freddie40
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2009
            • 152

            #6
            I have a Bryston BP26 (with DAC) and a 4BSST2 with Matrix 802 Series 2.. Excellent sound. However, you must go out and listen for yourself to pick the best Amp and speakers.

            Dave
            Crystal Clear Music Tweaked Mac Mini / Yosemite -> JRiver 20 -> Ayre QB9DSD -> Bryston BP26DA -> Bryston 4BSST2 -> B&W 802Di | Transparent Reference XLRs, Transparent Super Speaker Cable, Maple Shade USB cable, Crystal Clear Music Power Cords

            Comment

            • joetama
              Senior Member
              • May 2006
              • 786

              #7
              I'd go the Moon path.

              I got a Moon P3 a while back and was totally thrilled by it. I will tell you that it seems Moon Power Amps are rather expensive. You might want to check out two Classe CA-M400. Why? That would give you more power than the W7 or W8 and I'm pretty sure you can get two CA-M400 for the price of one W8. As for the W7 I don't think it would be enough power to give you the dynamic headroom with those speakers if you play them at volume.
              -Joe

              Comment

              • htsteve
                Super Senior Member
                • Sep 2004
                • 1216

                #8
                mark,

                First of all, welcome to the forum!

                I would not let the size of the 802d's be a deciding factor between that and 803D's. I have 802D's in an 11 X 16 room and they sound wonderful. They sounded very good when they first went into the room. They sound even better now with room treatments and the spike kits.

                As for amplification, the 802D's love lots of current, so whatever amp you get should deliver lots of current. The more the better.


                Hope this helps.
                Last edited by htsteve; 20 October 2009, 07:14 Tuesday.

                Comment

                • toronto416
                  Junior Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 5

                  #9
                  Many thanks for all the helpful advice!

                  You are quite right to suggest another great Canadian audio company - Classe.

                  The CDP-102 CD player, CP-500 pre-amp and CA-2200 amp would be a nice complement to the 803d, and this would fit a more realistic budget than an 802d based system.

                  I was surprised to read in Stereophile review that the Classe 200 Wpc amp "was a nigh on perfect partner to the B&W 802d". And I thought that the 802d would need at least the CA-M400 400 Wpc Classe monoblocks!

                  In my city I have the opportunity to visit one B&W dealer that carries Classe, and another that carries Bryston. Unfortunately Simaudio is not well represented here, and certanly not by any B&W dealers, and I have only seen (and heard) their i-7 integrated amp and SuperNova CD player with Spendor speakers.

                  I will arrange to audition the 803d and 802d with Classe electronics, which may be slightly better than Bryston?

                  Best regards,

                  Mark

                  Comment

                  • Oddiophile
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 173

                    #10
                    Mark,

                    I went from a pair of Krell 350 monoblocks to a pair of Classe CA-M400s for my 802Ds and the Classe pair blew the Krells away. It should not be surprising as Abbey Road Studios uses CA-M400s with their 800Ds (biamped) and, of course, Classe and B&W are part of the same holding company and each product is tested with the other.

                    I don't know much about the Moons but the Bryston's might be an interesting case. The top of the line in the SST series, the 28B SST, received an incredible review by Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound (http://www.avguide.com/review/brysto...ower-amplifier) and so I would have high hopes for the 14B. My gut feeling is that the Classe would be the best match but certainly the Bryston would be worth checking out.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Jim

                    Comment

                    • toronto416
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 5

                      #11
                      I have arranged to audition B&W 802d and Sonus Faber Cremona M speakers (driven by Classe electronics) this coming week-end.

                      It would probably be more appropriate to compare the Cremona M to the 803d, but the dealer only has the 802d or 803s available. I have compared the 804s to the 803d (driven by Bryston electronics), and much preferred the 803d. Hence I would not consider the 803s at all given that the 803d is not that much more expensive.

                      From what I have read about the 802d and the Cremona M, it should be an interesting comparison. Let the games begin!

                      Regards,

                      Mark

                      Comment

                      • style
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 1562

                        #12
                        Hi toronto416,

                        you go listen a "hard speakers" like B&W and a speakers very mellow, soft....

                        The SonusFaber is a great speakers but (FOR ME) or you like one or the other.

                        The sonusFaber is very mellow, with jazz will be very good :T

                        But they are very different like nicht & day. we wait your feed back.


                        Style

                        Comment

                        • wgriel
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2006
                          • 241

                          #13
                          Personally, I'd go with the Simaudio: I think they pair brilliantly with B&W. On the other hand, at this price point it's worth listening comparatively because you may not like what I like.

                          Comment

                          • toronto416
                            Junior Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 5

                            #14
                            Other speakers that I will audition in addition to the B&W 803d are the PMC PB1i, Sonus Faber Cremona M - and out of patriotic duty, the Totem Mani-2 (though I am having trouble finding a dealer in the GTA who is interested in an audition!). We are limited not only by what we consumers can afford, but also by what dealers can afford to have us demo.

                            I find it sad that I cannot audition the Totem Mani-2, or Simauidio Moon Evolution P-7, W-7, or W-8 electronics, or compare Classe, Simaudio and Bryston to each other. There is one Classe dealer in Toronto, and they do not carry Bryston or Simaudio. There is one Simaudio dealer, and they do not carry Classe or Bryston. The one Simaudio dealer does not demo P-7, W-7 or W-8 components. You get the picture...

                            About the only cross-comparison that I can do is to listen to the 803d with Bryston at one dealer, and then listen to the 803d with Classe at another dealer. The only way to add Simaudio to the list is to buy a pre-amp and amp sight unseen!

                            I find it hard to believe that in Canada's largest city, Canadian high-end audio components with incredible international reputations are simply not well represented or even stocked by dealers who represent them (Totem Mani-2, Simaudio Moon Evolution series pre-amps & amps, Classe etc...). Bryston is a notable exception - they actually care about penetrating and supporting the local market, and that certainly will impact consumer buying decisions.

                            It doesn't matter how many glowing reviews other manufacturers receive in the American and British audio mags - if you can't even see (never mind listen to) their products, you are not going to buy them.

                            If we consumers are to support our own Canadian audio industry, that industry has to invest in being represented and make the effort to support consumers and our passion for excellence.

                            Regards,

                            Mark

                            Comment

                            • Orb
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 147

                              #15
                              Hi Mark,
                              I think a lot of what your seeing is that a dealer is usually tied into a distributor, it may be different over there but here in the UK the good dealers I know are tied to their distributor.
                              So while they may have a diverse range, it does not necessarily match our requirements; I am lucky that my main 3 dealers are diverse as two deal with different distributors while the 3rd dealer is large enough (6 shops and a very good turnover) to purchase as a distributor itself (or so it seems).

                              I guess your only option is like what I did, find a maximum of 2-3 dealers that have an extensive range due to an excellent distributor and enough cash to have a large in-store stock.
                              A way to do this is to check out the manufacturers website you are interested in, see who their distributor is and also see what dealers they both list.
                              Eventually you will have a process of elimination, which can be further reduced by phoning each dealer to get a feel of what they are like.

                              If you already been through this, sorry it is such a bad situation in Toronto

                              Comment

                              • wgriel
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2006
                                • 241

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Orb
                                A way to do this is to check out the manufacturers website you are interested in, see who their distributor is and also see what dealers they both list.
                                Eventually you will have a process of elimination, which can be further reduced by phoning each dealer to get a feel of what they are like.

                                If you already been through this, sorry it is such a bad situation in Toronto
                                That's how I'd approach it: send an email to Simaudio, Totem and anyone else that you are interested in and ask them if they have dealers in the GTA. Toronto must be the biggest market in Canada, so I'd be completely shocked if they are not represented somewhere.

                                Comment

                                • 1oldguy
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 459

                                  #17
                                  HI Toronto

                                  I have the following for sale

                                  802D Used for 14 Hours
                                  803D never used
                                  Htm2D Never Used
                                  ASW855 Never used
                                  and 5 Bryston 7B's ...2 opened and 3 sealed

                                  I would let the whole thing go for a decent offer.
                                  A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                                  Comment

                                  • toronto416
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Oct 2009
                                    • 5

                                    #18
                                    I visited two dealers yesterday with some classical, jazz, (and with my son in tow some Beatles) CDs that would challenge any system and bring out its magic as well as its flaws.

                                    At the first dealer I auditioned the B&W 802d and the Sonus Faber Cremona M driven by Classe electronics (CDP-100, CP-500, CA-2200). I was surprisingly underwhelmed, given that I had previously heard the 803d driven by Bryston electronics at another dealer (BCD-1, BP-26, 4B SST), and found that system wonderfully engaging. Perhaps the 802d's were being undernourished, but I guess I will be crossing Classe off my list. There is only one Classe dealer in my city, and I was surprised that he had a CDP-100 on hand, a CD player that was replaced with the CDP-102 about 5 years ago. I guess he was hoping I would not notice, but also by compromising with the source, I was not hearing the speakers at their best.

                                    The SF Cremona M is an interesting but ultimately flawed speaker. In some respects it was as good or even better than the 802d, but ultimately was not its match (I had hoped to compare the SF Cremona M to the B&W 803d, which is a closer match than the 802d). The Cremona M's treble and midrange reproduction was wonderfully clear, articulate and smooth, and its reproduction of the ambience of the recordings superlative, but its base was muddy, unclear and a little boomy. I have now heard that speaker at 2 different dealers in two different systems and I had that same impression both times. I am sure that with careful system matching, there is some magic to be had with them, but I will cross them off my list. When the left hand of the piano sounds much less clear than the right, that is a big problem...

                                    As I mentioned, the 803d driven by Brystom electronics sounded wonderful (as did the PMC PB1i in the same system yesterday). I will go back to compare both speakers in the same sitting.

                                    Another combination that sounded wonderful was the Spendor S9e driven by SimAudio Moon elctronics (SuperNova CD player, Moon Evolution i-7 integrated amp). Unfortunately the one SimAudio deaer in my city does not have any Evolution series pre-amps or amps on hand (P-7, W-7, W-8), and they do not carry B&W or Bryston.

                                    How would the 803d sound with SimAudio vs. Bryston electronics? It is not a comparison that is even possible in my city.

                                    The search continues....

                                    Regards,

                                    Mark

                                    Comment

                                    • aarsoe
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2004
                                      • 795

                                      #19
                                      One word of advice. Be very careful about making any judgments on how things sound in any unfamiliar environment. 9 out of 10 times it will sound different in your home.

                                      This should especially be considered when proven combination's don't sound right...

                                      Comment

                                      • sikoniko
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2003
                                        • 2299

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by toronto416
                                        At the first dealer I auditioned the B&W 802d and the Sonus Faber Cremona M driven by Classe electronics (CDP-100, CP-500, CA-2200). I was surprisingly underwhelmed, given that I had previously heard the 803d driven by Bryston electronics at another dealer (BCD-1, BP-26, 4B SST), and found that system wonderfully engaging. Perhaps the 802d's were being undernourished, but I guess I will be crossing Classe off my list. There is only one Classe dealer in my city, and I was surprised that he had a CDP-100 on hand, a CD player that was replaced with the CDP-102 about 5 years ago. I guess he was hoping I would not notice, but also by compromising with the source, I was not hearing the speakers at their best.
                                        Mark
                                        I think the CDP-100 is a better CDP than the 102. I compared it against the Ayre and even the dealer preferred the classe CDP, and he did not sell the product.

                                        As for the rest, I'm curious to know what you did not like about it? The CP-500 is the entry level 2 channel preamp, so I would say that you should not give up on classe based on that. While I find that bryston is very good, it is also rather forward. I do think, based on spec's, that the bryston sp-3 will be the closest competitor to classe's ssp-800.

                                        Out of curiosity, how was speaker placement? did the dealer allow you to adjust the speakers? I find that in-store demo's are flawed simply by where they place the speakers in the show room. I often find myself having to reposition them in order to hear what the speakers are really capable of, especially with speakers with marlan heads.
                                        I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                                        Comment

                                        • Glenee
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2006
                                          • 253

                                          #21
                                          If you can listen to one close. Try a AYON CDP Incredible.

                                          Comment

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