Sunosub III update 11/26/00

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  • Patrick Sun
    Super Senior Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 1380

    Sunosub III update 11/26/00

    Okay, hopefully this is my last installment before I get my Tempest drivers.

    November 11-21, 2000 (these 3 upcoming photos are amended from my Nov. 1, 2000 post)

    I applied about 6 coats of alternating clear LACQUER, wetsand with 400 grit and then 600 grit, black LACQUER, wetsand with 400 grit and 600 grit. Then I decided to try something that another HTFer, Julian Data, did to get a really nice finish. I renewed my efforts on the table top.

    Photo 77 : Here are the new ingredients: 1500 grit wetsandpaper, Meguire's Show Car Glaze, Rubbing Compound, and tack cloth.

    Photo 78 : I use the 1500 grit wetsandpaper to try to flatten the surface as much as possible.

    Photo 79 : I then load up some rubbing compound on some wet down cloth.

    Photo 80 : I apply the rubbing compound. I wasn't able to truly buff the rubbing compound as well as I should, so I found myself with lots of scratchy streaks. This part was a failing on my part, if I could have truly power buffed out the rubbing compound, I'm sure I would have gotten good results.

    Photo 81 : I press on and apply some of the Meguire's Show Car Glaze on a cloth.

    Photo 82 : I apply the glaze on the table top. but once I was done, I saw a nice shiny finish, but underneath there are still the scratchy streaks.

    So since I wasn't too crazy about the scratches, I decided to punt and go back to wetsanding with the 1500 grit, got the surface as flat as I could, and then I applied 2 thick coats of clear lacquer. Here are the final results:

    Photo 83 : No camera flash, here is the reflection of my garage door opener on the ceiling.

    Photo 84 : No camera flash, here is the reflection of a table lamp I was using while working at night.

    The top isn't anywhere perfect, but I can live with it. Using the 1500 grit did help in getting it a tad more smoother and shinier, so it wasn't wasted effort.

    So here's what I learned: Never, ever, use ENAMEL paint underneath any LACQUER paint. It's a road paved with bad intentions. You must absolutely have good air flow when you spray LACQUER paint, that stuff will give you a headache if you inhale too much of it. Also, I'll be letting the table top's painted surface "harden" for 3 months before I wax it to get the final shine of the surface.

    Also, I must confess: I've played the game of golf, but I've never cussed as much as I did when I saw what ENAMEL paint does when it interacts with LACQUER paint. I was cussing under my breath for quite a few days as I work to try and salvage the top. But I felt better once I moved to use the other side. It did go better once I figured out what I was doing.

    Hopefully my Tempest drivers will show up soon so I can finish my Sunosubs!

    ----------

    November 26, 2000

    Okay, here's some updated photos of what I've been doing. Still no Tempest Drivers, most likely I'll get them on December 1st.

    These are miscellaneous bits and pieces that needed to be done.

    Photo 85 : I drill the hole for the roller caster for the each of the 3 legs.

    Photo 86 : Here's all 3 legs with their roller caster inserted in the newly drilled hole.

    Photo 87 : I spray paint the leg mounts in black to keep the whole bottom endcap the same color.

    Photo 88 : I received a flared port kit from Adire Audio, but it's too long with the added section, totalling 30" of length.

    Photo 89 : To get 24" of port length (23" of true port length), I needed to cut off 6" off one of the sections. I measure off the length and wrapped a piece of paper as a guide for me to cut the tube.

    Photo 90 : Here's the sawed off section.

    Photo 91 : Here's what it'll look like inside the sonotube later on.

    Now here are the photos for the bottom endcap preparation from routing out the port hole, drilling in needed screw holes, and painting the endcap. I decided to preserve as much MDF surface area, so the port hole will be just a bit larger than the width of the 4" unflared port section. I plan to assemble the port from the inside of the endcap.

    Photo 92 : On the inner bottom endcap, I make some circles in the best spot for the port to give me an idea where everything is laid out.

    Photo 93 : On the outer bottom endcap, I put the outer flared port in position and use that to find the center that I'll need for route out the port hole.

    Photo 94 : I carefully line up both layers and drill the pilot hole all the way through so I have the center hole for the inner endcap too.

    Photo 95 : Here's the port hole for the outer endcap layer, I made it around 5" wide and will be sanding out some flare in the MDF for the port to fit in the hole snugly.

    Photo 96 : Here's the port hole for the inner endcap layer, I made it just over 4" wide so the port will fit snugly and preserve MDF surface area.

    Photo 97 : After some sanding and elbow grease, I flare out the outer layer's port hole.

    Photo 98 : Testing for fit of the flared port kit opening.

    Photo 99 : I placed the leg mounts in position, and marked where the screws needed to be, and then I drilled holes for all the leg mounts as a marker for the holes later on.

    Photo 100 : Using the flare to make the holes for it.

    Photo 101 : Finish with drilling holes for the flare.

    Photo 102 : Now it's time to glue the layers together.

    Photo 103 : Now both layers are one.

    Photo 104 : I make sure the layers are glued tightly by placing lots of weight on the bottom endcap.

    Photo 105 : It's time to paint. Here's the start of the priming the inner side of the endcap.

    Photo 106 : I prime the outer side of the endcap.

    Photo 107 : I start painting the inner side with black lacquer spray paint. I apply 2 coats with drying time between coats.

    Photo 108 : I then flip the endcap over and paint the outer side with the same black lacquer spray paint. This is the first of many layers.

    Photo 109 : I wetsand with 400 and 600 grit for the first 2 layers of paint, and then I used 1500 grit for the next couple of layers of paint.

    Photo 110 : I then apply a coat of clear lacquer (shown), and then wetsand with 1500 grit again, and finally just lathered on 2 thick coats of black lacquer paint for the final coat.

    Photo 111 : No camera flash, here's a shot of the shine. Not awesome, but for the bottom endcap that will rarely be seen, it's good enough.

    Photo 112 : With camera flash, here's another shot of the paint job.

    Photo 113 : No camera flash, one last parting shot of the paint, not great, not terrible.

    Okay, now I'm at the point where I sit and wait for the Tempest driver once again. I need the driver so I can drill in the mounting screws. Once that happens, I can nail in and caulk the bottom endcap to the sonotube and really get Sunosub III completed.

    Stay tuned!




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  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    Pat

    Looks very nice

    Might suggest using a punch or nail to break the painted surface before you drill screw holes for the various components. This should prevent to paint from chipping when the drill bit grabs the painted surface




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • Patrick Sun
      Super Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 1380

      #3
      Thomas, good tip! I'll remember to knock in a nail the width of the screw if possible.




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      • Patrick Sun
        Super Senior Member
        • Aug 2000
        • 1380

        #4
        (Note, I deleted some of the evaluation comments and incorporated them in the post made below in my final set of photos).

        Once I get all my construction photos in order, I'll share them with you all. Here's a sneak peak at the final product (more or less):

        Photo A - shot with flash showing top endcap.

        Photo B - shot with no flash showing top endcap.

        Photo C - shot of the bottom endcap.

        Photo D - shot showing the Tempest driver and a mischevious kitty (Fred) who's thinking about sit on yet another one of my drivers...

        I can't wait to put together Sunosub II (waiting on my 2nd Tempest) next week. It's a larger sub (10 ft^3 internal volume, tuned to 16Hz with three 4" wide ports 36" long, using one Tempest driver).




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        • Andrew Pratt
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 16507

          #5
          Pat is that a single 4" flared vent you're using?




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          • Patrick Sun
            Super Senior Member
            • Aug 2000
            • 1380

            #6
            Yup. It's nowhere optimal, and a big compromise, but for HT, it's a decent design. For music, it's okay, but I need to fine-tune it somemore. DanW volunteered to send me the flared port gratis, so I took him on the challenge to build Sunosub III with it.




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            • Lexman
              Super Senior Member
              • Jun 2000
              • 1777

              #7
              Nice photo documentary. (yawn) lol.

              Another tip for drilling holes where paint is concerned is to apply masking tape over the area you plan to drill. Also a good tip for drilling formica. This also gives you a good surface to draw on.

              Lex

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              • Patrick Sun
                Super Senior Member
                • Aug 2000
                • 1380

                #8
                November 30, 2000

                Oh happy day! My Tempest driver finally arrives.

                Photo 114 : Here's a shot of the Tempest, with my cat Fred used as point of reference (he weighs around 14 pounds).

                Photo 115 : A side shot of the Tempest. I'm guessing it weighs about 15 pounds or more.

                Photo 116 : Time to get back to work - On the bottom endcap, I start drilling in the driver mounting holes. Just a word of caution, I would route out a 13.75" wide hole for the driver, not 14" wide, if I were to do this again.

                Photo 117 : I drill out holes for the flared port.

                Photo 118 : I drill out holes for the terminal cup.

                Photo 119 : Here's a final look at all the holes that needed to be drilled for bottom endcap.

                Photo 120 : The legs are screwed into the leg mounts of the bottom endcap.

                Photo 121 : The t-nuts I'll be using require their holes to be slight larger for a depth not more than 1/2". That explains the masking tape on the drill bit.

                Photo 122 : Heres's a shot of t-nuts, and the application of glue around the holes to keep it snug and tight.

                Photo 123 : I then hammer in the t-nuts for all 8 holes.

                Photo 124 : Once all the t-nuts are hammered, I apply glue all around the edges fo the t-nuts and the wood to seal it in.

                December 1, 2000

                I let the glue dry a day before resuming work.

                Photo 125 : I screw in the terminal cup.

                Photo 126 : To help seal the port, I put 3/8" wide compressible weather stripping on the port's underside.

                Photo 127 : The port is now screwed into the endcap.

                Photo 128 : The underside of the endcap shows all the screws and nuts for the terminal cup, port, and leg mounts.

                Photo 129 : I use some muscle to get the sonotube onto the bottom endcap, and notice I use a blanket to minimize scratches later on.

                Photo 130 : I bought some black ribbon material from Joann's Fabric Store, it was 61" in circumference, a little stretchy, and fit my 24" wide sonotube with ease.

                Photo 131 : To make sure the sonotube is mated to the endcap, I nail in lots and lots of nails around the perimeter, my guess about 50 nails.

                Photo 132 : Then it's time to caulk the inside edge. This is not fun at all. I call it "Blind Man Caulking" since I had to apply some caulk on my finger and stick my hand through the driver hole and feel my way around the edges to apply the caulk.

                Photo 133 : Here's a shot of my internal caulk work. Plenty messy, it is.

                Photo 134 : And one more fabulous shot of my caulking. Notice the port hasn't been assembled yet (it would have been near impossible if it were in place before I caulked).

                Photo 135 : Time to make the cables to connect the driver to the terminal cup. I need 2 sets of cables for each voice coil of the Tempest. I will be able to jumper them externally from the dual-input terminal cup.

                Photo 136 : I use a terminal crimper, and I crimp a notch on the top side of the terminal connector after threading 3/8" of bare wire into the connector. I also use black electrical tape to denote one wire being the negative wire. I am using 12 gauge wire, and got the 12 guage terminal connectors from Home Depot (they come 6 in a package).

                Photo 137 : Here are both sets of cables all terminated and labelled.

                Photo 138 : This is a close-up of the terminated cables. Notice the notch in the yellow connector is on the top side. This will provide a snug and tight connection.

                Photo 139 : Here's a shot of the cable connected to the underside of the terminal cup.

                Photo 140 : Now it's time to put the flared port together. I use epoxy to glue the ports and the rings together.

                Photo 141 : Epoxy is a bit yucky to mess with, but here's the result, one flared port sectioned together. If you look closely, the last section is taped together with black electrical tape in case I want to be able to take apart the port and cut it down in length.

                Photo 142 : I put the port inside the enclosure, and I do epoxy the section near the flare outer port opening to the rest of the port. I don't have much clearance at the top, but the flare helps. My vent mach will probably be off the charts, but if I need to, I can cut down the port.

                Photo 143 : Here are all the bags of polyfill I got from Wal-Mart. I wind up using only 3 of the 4 bgs for 72 ounces of polyfill inside the enclosure.

                Photo 144 : This is how I felt after Thanksgiving meals. I was able to use 3 of the bags.

                Photo 145 : I then line the driver hole with 3/8" compressible weather stripping. This is to minimize air leaks.

                Photo 146 : Now it's time to screw in the driver to the bottom endcap. To make it easier, I move the enclosure and the driver separately into my living room (I had been working in my garage up until this point). I do this due to weight considerations.

                Photo 147 : Ta-Da! The driver has now been screwed into each of the t-nuts. That's Pooh, my kitty in the background sniffing the weather stripping backing.

                Photo 148 : After adding the wheels for each leg, I turn the sub right side up and position it in my usual sub space. It stands 36" tall without the table top.

                Photo 149 : I fold in the ribbon material at the bottom edge to get a cleaner edge. I haven't decided how to permanently attach the ribbon material to the outside of the sonotube. The table top has been place on the top, but it isn't fastened to the top yet. I may just use velcro strips because using dowels would affect the top endcap's integrity. Like the shine of that table top?

                Photo 150 : To get a shot of the shine, I didn't use the camera flash for this shot of the sub.

                Photo 151 : One shot showing the side view and the height of the sub.

                Okay, that's how to build a sonosub with the Tempest driver.

                Here's some of my comments in regards to how Sunosub III performs in my Home Theater setup:

                Sunosub III: the details: around 6 ft^3 internal volume, tuned to around 16Hz using flared 4" precision port 23" long from end to end, with 1 Tempest driver, filled with 72 ounces of polyfill to offset less than optimal internal volume, 25.5" of internal length of 24" wide sonotube, one 3/4" internal top endcap layer, one 1" internal bottom endcap layer (3/4" MDF layer and 1/4" plywood layer).

                My reaction: Holy Smokes! I'm really amazed at what this little beast can do! On my Sunosub I (2 Shiva's, tuned to 19Hz with 24" long 8" wide port, 12 ft^3 of internal volume), I would get some minor pops when I played the DVDs/LDs with really strong low frequency content, like TPM AC-3 LD, and dts Haunting DVD.

                I tested TPM, and everywhere that I got pops/bottoming out (the Jedi ship getting blasted, Pod Race toward the end of the race, and some spots) with Sunosub I, I got no such pops or bottoming out with Sunosub III with the single Tempest driver. That made me very happy.

                I couldn't totally crank it up since it was around midnight when I was listening to stuff, but I will tomorrow just to see how hard I can push it. But at relatively low (normal DVD/LD listening levels) I was getting up to 106dB during the Pod race at my normal seating area about 11 feet from the speaker/sub. My dual Shiva would pop at this volume level in the past.

                The next day, I tested the space dogfight fight at the beginning of Lost In Space DVD, and it played through it without a hiccup.

                It also survived the dts version of The Haunting DVD (for my purposes) with peaks hitting 109dB from my seating position (and even then I needed to be listening at insane volumes, probably with a reference level of 80dB) from 10-11 feet away, I normally wouldn't even listen to DVDs at this level, but I was curious to push the sub a little harder than normal.

                Here's a graph I made from some measurements today of Sunosub III:

                Click here.

                The nearfield measurement shows a F3 around 22-23Hz (using 103-104dB as the average SPL level), you can see where the Fb of 16Hz show up in the dip near 17.5Hz on the 1m measurements. Remember, this particular enclosure isn't optimal, so I expected the low end F3 not to reach 20Hz, and I was right. If I tuned higher, I might have gotten it, but I would sacrifice driver protection, and I just would rather have driver protection (from bottoming out the driver) over a few dB's down really low.

                I made the near field measurement by playing a 22Hz tone, placing the SPL meter right near the dustcap of the driver, and turning up the volume until it was near 93dB (totally arbitrary dB number, you can use any useful SPL, like 75dB if you wanted to, but I wanted some separation between the near field and the 1m measurement for the graph.

                I got the 1m measurement by playing some pink noise and raising the volume to get 75dB on my SPL meter, and then left the volume setting alone, proceeded to play bass tones from my BassZone CD and recorded the values with the SPL meter 1 meter away from the sub.

                My room absolutely pumps up the high end bass in the 56-89Hz range (hopefully a Behringer Feedback Destroyer will show up soon so I can do some peak taming).

                This design is a compromise brought upon by its limitation of enclosure space. I had this last piece of sonotube lying around, and I knew using the Tempest with this piece of sonotube would be a compromise. I would say that it would make a welcome addition for a HT setup but I wouldn't use it for a music setup (the rhythmic thumping would call attention to port noise and chuffing much sooner than any DVD would over the long haul).

                Hope this helps people get off their duffs and build their own sonosub, with the right tools, they are easy to make and you'll be surprised at the quality of bass you can get with a lot less money. Also, the pride of building with you use in your HT is another plus.

                I can't wait to put together Sunosub II (waiting on my 2nd Tempest) next week. It's a larger sub (10 ft^3 internal volume, tuned to 16Hz with three 4" wide ports 36" long, using one Tempest driver). I expect this sub to work well for HT and music.




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                • ThomasW
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 10934

                  #9
                  Pat

                  That actually looks pretty good for a big tube with a 4" diameter port. The flare is obviously doing its job. You're getting a good boost from room gain so the port "gamble" payed off.

                  Should be a great sub for HT




                  theAudioWorx
                  Klone-Audio

                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                  Comment

                  • Patrick Sun
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 1380

                    #10
                    Thanks, Thomas,

                    I knew going in that this sub wouldn't be "great" but definitely serviceable. I wonder if I'll even like it when I BFD the room gain out of the sub's response. My butt was tingling from playing the dts Haunting DVD this afternoon at insane listening levels. Heh.




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                    • Brian Steeves
                      Junior Member
                      • Nov 2000
                      • 24

                      #11
                      I can't wait to put together Sunosub II (waiting on my 2nd Tempest) next week. It's a larger sub (10 ft^3 internal volume, tuned to 16Hz with three 4" wide ports 36" long, using one Tempest driver). I expect this sub to work well for HT and music.
                      Your gonna love it! Mine is 10.5ft3 tuned to 18hz and it is amazing!




                      She said,"you're gonna put that thing WHERE!"
                      She said,"you're gonna put that thing WHERE!"

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                      • Patrick Sun
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 1380

                        #12
                        Sunosub II will require more work because I will have to get the bottom endcap's painting done before I even start on the top endcap's paint job (I remember Brian's story of getting cloth prints in his painted top endcap.)




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                        • John Holmes
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 2703

                          #13
                          Very nice Patrick! Good job.




                          "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                          "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

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                          • Patrick Sun
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 1380

                            #14
                            Thanks John. Now I'm in the waiting mode for paint to thoroughly dry in this cold weather for Sunosub II. I've decided not to rush the paint job this time. Right now, it's mainly waiting for the bottom endcap's paint to dry so I can screw in the driver without messing out the paint job. Besides, it gives me more time with Sunosub III.




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