b&w 683 problem please help!!!

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  • otothesg
    Junior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 4

    b&w 683 problem please help!!!

    I have acouple of questions for people who might know a bit more than me,
    1. my equipment is a denon 2808ci with a emotiva xpa-5, b&w 683 fronts htm-2 center and dm601 s3 for rears. and a outlaw lfm-ex
    My question is I had all this equipment with just the denon set at lfe plus main with the crossover for the sub set at 80hz. with the music I would not need the sub woofer and I could listen to the music at -20 and it would be very loud. Last week I added an emotiva xpa-5 and while playing some songs I heard some popping noise coming from the woofers at -26 volume, I immediately turned down the volume and the noise went away , I am assuming the speakers were getting distorted. My question to this is the xpa-5 to much for the speakers, because adding the amp has really helped when listening to normal levels but I am afraid of turning it up and messing up the speakers. Thank you and sorry for the long story.
  • audioqueso
    Super Senior Member
    • Nov 2004
    • 1930

    #2
    Two things.
    One, the unit measure on the Denon is relevant to the power out-putted.
    Example: -20 on the Denon may mean XX%. XX% out of Denon's 110watts does not equal the same as the XPA-5's 200watts.
    Two, it may or may not be too much power for the 683s. But the part I'm curious about is, are you getting distorted with analog or digital connections to your Denon? Meaning, a DVD player connected to your Denon via analog RCA may clip. The same DVD player connected via optical/digital coax on the Denon may not because the Denon is controlling that. If you are hearing distortion with devices connected via analog connections, when it distorts, it will be much more apparent with the new extra amount of amplification.
    B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

    Comment

    • otothesg
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 4

      #3
      Thank you for your quick reply. I have a ps3 connected to the denon via hdmi. I feel the volume is the same, the difference I feel with the amp is deeper bass and clearer sound. I could be wrong meaning the amp is louder at 26 making the speakers distort faster.

      Comment

      • audioqueso
        Super Senior Member
        • Nov 2004
        • 1930

        #4
        I have a pair of B&W 600 S3 in my bedroom. I can try hooking them up to the XPA-5 and see if I get the same results. That way, we can see if it's too much power for the 600 series. However, I think I've seen someone on this forum that has their 683's with some high power amps. I'll let you know.
        B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

        Comment

        • Kal Rubinson
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2006
          • 2109

          #5
          Originally posted by audioqueso
          Two things.
          One, the unit measure on the Denon is relevant to the power out-putted.
          I would say it was relative to the power output.

          Example: -20 on the Denon may mean XX%. XX% out of Denon's 110watts does not equal the same as the XPA-5's 200watts.
          Not quite. It has also to do with the sensitivity of the power amps (and speakers). Thus, the numbers are relative only within a single component.
          Kal Rubinson
          _______________________________
          "Music in the Round"
          Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
          http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round

          Comment

          • emig5m
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2008
            • 646

            #6
            The XPA-5 is not too powerful for the 683s - I've played mine loud enough to where you couldn't even hear your own voice with no distortion or distress to the speaker (albeit in a small room - but it's a well dampened room). I've also used the XPA-5 with the little 685s full range with no problem. Do you use a lot of bass boost? If you really want ear deafening volumes to perhaps fill a large room maybe you should just trade in on the new Cerwin Vegas with twin 15" woofers per cabinet, heh, that is, if you can deal with the ugliness of them. :rofl:

            Comment

            • otothesg
              Junior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 4

              #7
              I did notice it was with a song that had a lot of bass, maybe that could have created the problem. I dont see where I can control the bass on the denon 2808ci?

              Comment

              • jericho
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2004
                • 280

                #8
                If the sub is popping, there may be something with the electronics inside.
                I have had this problem twice, with the ASW-855 and the 825.
                Was caused by changing the wire at the back of the sub, while I forgot turning it off.
                Probably the mass connection got in contact with the positive what caused the dammage.
                Hope you can solve you're problem

                Regards

                Comment

                • audioqueso
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Nov 2004
                  • 1930

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kal Rubinson
                  I would say it was relative to the power output.
                  Oops... I did mean to type relative. haha

                  Originally posted by Kal Rubinson
                  Not quite. It has also to do with the sensitivity of the power amps (and speakers). Thus, the numbers are relative only within a single component.
                  I'm not sure what you're really say. That doesn't really make sense. Why did you write "not quite" and then added "also"? Are you disagreeing or agreeing with me? 8)

                  What I'm saying is that if you take a dB measurement with the Denon alone at say... -20 (whatever that may mean to the Denon unit), then measure again at -20 using the XPA-5, the reading WILL be lower (louder).
                  So what I'm saying is that whatever distortion he is hearing, it may have been in his system before, but he hears it now because it's being amplified more.

                  otothesg,
                  I will add one thing regarding the XPA-5 though. Use good interconnect cables. I'm not saying it is your cables, but something interesting I came across with my XPA-5 is that it caused a buzz with lots of cables. I've been using some DH Labs cable for years now. It didn't like it. I went through my box of junk, grabbed some $5 RCA cables. It didn't like it. I tried some Monster cables, some Blue Jeans cable, some Sony stuff... it didn't work. All of them gave the XPA-5 a buzz/hum. With the same cables, connecting a Marantz DVD player to a Marantz receiver, it worked fine. The XPA-5 didn't like it though. I thought it was a grounding problem, but it wasn't. Then I tried the stock dongle cable from my RME soundcard... no problem. No buzz or humm. I bought some Van Den Hul cables... no problem. I don't know why, but for some reason the XPA-5 seemed to have been picky with cables. Just an idea.
                  B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                  Comment

                  • audioqueso
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 1930

                    #10
                    Originally posted by emig5m
                    The XPA-5 is not too powerful for the 683s
                    Well, there you have it. So you're safe with your concern about too much power. :T
                    B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                    Comment

                    • otothesg
                      Junior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 4

                      #11
                      I will try with some new cables, but I did an experiment today and I tried a song with very little bass and I had the volume at -10 with the xpa-5 and the speakers were fine, I turned down the volume to -40 and put the song that I had heard the distortion from. I turned up the volume little by little and about -26 I started hearing the popping sound again , I did notice the excursion from the woofers was very extreme. I must say that the new amp can really move the woofers with songs that have a lot of bass and that is what is causing them to distort. I will have to be careful wiith bass heavy songs, I will have to rely on the sub to do a bit of more work. Thank you guys for your help.

                      Comment

                      • emig5m
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 646

                        #12
                        Originally posted by otothesg
                        I will try with some new cables, but I did an experiment today and I tried a song with very little bass and I had the volume at -10 with the xpa-5 and the speakers were fine, I turned down the volume to -40 and put the song that I had heard the distortion from. I turned up the volume little by little and about -26 I started hearing the popping sound again , I did notice the excursion from the woofers was very extreme. I must say that the new amp can really move the woofers with songs that have a lot of bass and that is what is causing them to distort. I will have to be careful wiith bass heavy songs, I will have to rely on the sub to do a bit of more work. Thank you guys for your help.
                        What do you consider a bass heavy song? I've played those car bass CDs through my 683s booming the bass (for fun) and didn't distort them. Although I'm not looking to win a SPL competition, but they where able to boom pretty good! I keep a close eye on woofer excursion when getting to know and learn the limits of a new speaker and never even came close to how some people beat on their B&Ws from videos posted on Youtube.

                        Originally posted by audioqueso
                        otothesg,
                        I will add one thing regarding the XPA-5 though. Use good interconnect cables. I'm not saying it is your cables, but something interesting I came across with my XPA-5 is that it caused a buzz with lots of cables. I've been using some DH Labs cable for years now. It didn't like it. I went through my box of junk, grabbed some $5 RCA cables. It didn't like it. I tried some Monster cables, some Blue Jeans cable, some Sony stuff... it didn't work. All of them gave the XPA-5 a buzz/hum. With the same cables, connecting a Marantz DVD player to a Marantz receiver, it worked fine. The XPA-5 didn't like it though. I thought it was a grounding problem, but it wasn't. Then I tried the stock dongle cable from my RME soundcard... no problem. No buzz or humm. I bought some Van Den Hul cables... no problem. I don't know why, but for some reason the XPA-5 seemed to have been picky with cables. Just an idea.
                        That's crazy. I also had a hum problem with the XPA-5 and a certain set of cables. Could it be the higher gain of the amp? The weird thing is I could unplug the pre/pro from the wall socket and it would still hum until I totally unplugged the cables from the pre/pro.

                        Comment

                        • audioqueso
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 1930

                          #13
                          Originally posted by emig5m
                          The weird thing is I could unplug the pre/pro from the wall socket and it would still hum until I totally unplugged the cables from the pre/pro.
                          Same exact symptom. I could have the speakers connected to the XPA-5, XPA-5 connected to interconnect cable, and interconnect cable connected to nothing... and it would cause a buzz/hum. But the weird thing is that the stock cable that came with the RME soundcard looks like a regular $5 RCA cable, and it worked perfectly fine. I turned up the volume to max (no music playing), and had no hum at all. Yet, the generic RCA cable, Monster cable, BlueJeans, and ny all had buzz/hum. The Van Den Hul cable does not have any buzz/hum.
                          B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720

                          Comment

                          • dknightd
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 621

                            #14
                            that popping noise you are hearing from your woofers might be the voice coil hitting at the end of its travel. Perhaps you have one CD with ALOT of low bass energy. (or if you are using a turntable, perhaps you have a low frequency resonance that is causing problems)

                            Comment

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