Possible FST driver issue?

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  • Hammie
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2005
    • 304

    Possible FST driver issue?

    I was listening to some music today and noticed the right side sounded louder and that voices were more prominent on that side.

    After close inspection of the speakers, I noticed what looks like fraying along the one edge of the FST driver on my 804 tower. I quickly examined the ones on my other tower and center. Neither of them have the same issue.

    I tried more songs. All of them seemed to be louder on the tower without this "fraying."

    The next thing I did was listen to the speakers at a close distance (within 6 inches) to see if I hear anything sonically different. To my surprise (however, it may be pyshcological), the one with the fray sounded quieter. I was like, "what the hell!" So, I pulled out my SPL meter and all my speakers are testing the same.

    I have not performed any tests with different cable nor have I tested different amp channels. I will do more of that once my new Emotiva cables arrive tomorrow.

    Here are some pics of what I am seeing. Hopefully, you see what I do.

    Without flash:





    With flash:







    Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I call the dealer and ask them?
    Panasonic TC-P65VT30
    Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
    Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
    Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
    B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
    Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
    My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
    Next Upgrade: Cables
  • Ronel S
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2005
    • 17

    #2
    Hi,

    Unsymmetrical placement of speakers, with respect to adjacent walls, affects imaging. Thus, a speaker which is near a wall or any reflective object, will sound louder than the other speaker placed in an open area, or near an sound absorbent element, e.g., curtains, etc. Perhaps, the issue have been existing earlier, but you might have noticed it only recently.

    Anything that is placed in between speakers, will affect imaging.

    Just my 2c.

    Comment

    • Hammie
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2005
      • 304

      #3
      Originally posted by Ronel S
      Hi,

      Unsymmetrical placement of speakers, with respect to adjacent walls, affects imaging. Thus, a speaker which is near a wall or any reflective object, will sound louder than the other speaker placed in an open area, or near an sound absorbent element, e.g., curtains, etc. Perhaps, the issue have been existing earlier, but you might have noticed it only recently.

      Anything that is placed in between speakers, will affect imaging.

      Just my 2c.
      But nothing has changed... They sounded fine last week when listening to them, but today they sounded... different. BTW, I'm very anal about the speaker placement and everything is as symmetrical as possible.

      And would they really sound louder/softer if I had my ear a few inches from the driver. I can understand from my listening position almost 8 feet away, but not within 6 inches.
      Panasonic TC-P65VT30
      Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
      Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
      Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
      B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
      Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
      My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
      Next Upgrade: Cables

      Comment

      • ChrisssB
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2006
        • 153

        #4
        Its something in the room or your ears.... One ear could be a bit "tired" due to loud noise (traffic, work etc). Even a nose cold...
        I can seen nothing wrong* in the photos and as you said they do measure the same (spl meter)
        Relax :-)

        EDIT * not anything that would affect the sound IMO.

        Comment

        • emig5m
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2008
          • 646

          #5
          All my FST mids in my 683's (both pairs, one demo and one new) and 804S's all had a couple of those little frays in the same spot so that's probably normal. I suppose you could swap speakers with each other and try to hear if it's the same that way.

          Comment

          • style
            Super Senior Member
            • Feb 2006
            • 1562

            #6
            Hi louhamilton,
            I have posed the same question at Classe / B&W:

            is a normal "work" made from the FST.
            No sound changing or other....

            Personally am a very meticulous and even if it does not cause
            no problem this irritates me a little....but is so nothing to do.

            only a new newer used they are "sometime perfect" .....

            if do you go listen music/ see movie with the grills off this point of the speakers go change color with the time! a new is very "yellow", in 3 moths for you is always like new but the sun, all what is in the air go to change this yellow....

            a contro/minus versus B&W? ....i dont think but make me not so happy...

            Style

            Comment

            • Ronel S
              Junior Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 17

              #7
              Louhamilton,

              Try other music materials, because, there are albums that some vocals, or instruments don't image in the center, but towards the other speaker. Due to this imbalance, you can have the perception that the speaker is louder than the other.

              Ronel

              Comment

              • Hammie
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2005
                • 304

                #8
                Originally posted by Ronel S
                Louhamilton,

                Try other music materials, because, there are albums that some vocals, or instruments don't image in the center, but towards the other speaker. Due to this imbalance, you can have the perception that the speaker is louder than the other.

                Ronel
                I've tried various materials. It first occurred with Led Zepplin, so I put in some John Legend, the Phil Collins, Pater Gabriel. All with similar results. Honestly, the music where I felt it was least noticeable was rap/hip hop :shrug:

                I'll wait for my new cables and tomorrow play around with them. I'll also test things by disconnect my external amp, swapping channels on my external amp, moving speakers from one side to the other. I'll try to exhaust all possibilities.

                Thanks, guys!
                Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                Next Upgrade: Cables

                Comment

                • ChrisssB
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2006
                  • 153

                  #9
                  louhamilton: try with some mono recording

                  Comment

                  • SoundEngine355
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 313

                    #10
                    When you do further testing, only used the HF/MF binding posts and not the LF and listen to hear if there is a difference.
                    SoundEngine355

                    -------------------
                    [Music] B&W 800D | Classe CDP202 +M400s | Velodyne DD15

                    Comment

                    • style
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Feb 2006
                      • 1562

                      #11
                      Sorry but is really stupid....IS NORMAL!!!!
                      Your speakers dont' are always like the first day in look and in sound too!

                      but in sound they are not different left from right!!
                      -> well with the time the muss have a better sound vs. new! is sooo simply.. ops: ops:

                      Comment

                      • dknightd
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 621

                        #12
                        Originally posted by emig5m
                        I suppose you could swap speakers with each other and try to hear if it's the same that way.
                        That is really the only way to tell. Pick something where you think the problem is obvious. Then mark where the speakers are, and switch them around.

                        My guess is it is your imagination. but I could be wrong. Please let us know what you find.

                        Comment

                        • Hammie
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 304

                          #13
                          Well, here is an interesting resolution. My issue went away today.

                          Here's why. New IC's. I had been using Blue Jeans Cables Surround Audio cables. Since I bought my Emotiva amp, they sent me a code to get 25% off their cables. I ordered some and they came today. I changed nothing except for the cables. The sound is fixed. As a matter of fact, I feel the speakers sound better. The mid's sound clear and detailed. As I did a couple A/B tests, I noticed the BJC cables would cause the mid's to almost sound as if they were getting clipped. I also noticed that the highs do not sound as shrill (not that I thought they did before the new cables. It was just an observation).

                          I really like the sound that is coming from my system now.
                          Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                          Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                          Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                          Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                          B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                          Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                          My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                          Next Upgrade: Cables

                          Comment

                          • emig5m
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 646

                            #14
                            Originally posted by louhamilton
                            Well, here is an interesting resolution. My issue went away today.

                            Here's why. New IC's. I had been using Blue Jeans Cables Surround Audio cables. Since I bought my Emotiva amp, they sent me a code to get 25% off their cables. I ordered some and they came today. I changed nothing except for the cables. The sound is fixed. As a matter of fact, I feel the speakers sound better. The mid's sound clear and detailed. As I did a couple A/B tests, I noticed the BJC cables would cause the mid's to almost sound as if they were getting clipped. I also noticed that the highs do not sound as shrill (not that I thought they did before the new cables. It was just an observation).

                            I really like the sound that is coming from my system now.
                            Ouch. And I had just replaced my monoprice cables with Blue Jeans.... (because I was getting a hum with half the monoprice cables). Maybe just a one in a million defective cable? Because everything is sounding good here. What cables did you go with?

                            Comment

                            • Hammie
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2005
                              • 304

                              #15
                              Originally posted by emig5m
                              Ouch. And I had just replaced my monoprice cables with Blue Jeans.... (because I was getting a hum with half the monoprice cables). Maybe just a one in a million defective cable? Because everything is sounding good here. What cables did you go with?
                              I went with the Emotiva X-Series cables.

                              Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                              Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                              Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                              Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                              B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                              Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                              My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                              Next Upgrade: Cables

                              Comment

                              • style
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Feb 2006
                                • 1562

                                #16
                                A life from a speaker is 6 month. ca. 8O

                                that's right? from all your "opinion" this is the juice.

                                Comment

                                • MikeFL52
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2007
                                  • 118

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by louhamilton
                                  Well, here is an interesting resolution. My issue went away today.

                                  Here's why. New IC's. I had been using Blue Jeans Cables Surround Audio cables. Since I bought my Emotiva amp, they sent me a code to get 25% off their cables. I ordered some and they came today. I changed nothing except for the cables. The sound is fixed. As a matter of fact, I feel the speakers sound better. The mid's sound clear and detailed. As I did a couple A/B tests, I noticed the BJC cables would cause the mid's to almost sound as if they were getting clipped. I also noticed that the highs do not sound as shrill (not that I thought they did before the new cables. It was just an observation).

                                  I really like the sound that is coming from my system now.
                                  To be honest my guess is that the interconnect related to that speaker was not seated correctly and when you changed them you seated the new cables better. This has happenned on occasion with me and I have always managed to trace it down to correct IC seating. You can check the blue jeans cables with a resistance meter to see if they are all the same, but my guess it was the seating.

                                  Comment

                                  • Hammie
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Oct 2005
                                    • 304

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by MikeFL52
                                    To be honest my guess is that the interconnect related to that speaker was not seated correctly and when you changed them you seated the new cables better. This has happenned on occasion with me and I have always managed to trace it down to correct IC seating. You can check the blue jeans cables with a resistance meter to see if they are all the same, but my guess it was the seating.
                                    Excuse my ignorance, but how would I test them?
                                    Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                                    Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                                    Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                                    Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                                    B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                                    Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                                    My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                                    Next Upgrade: Cables

                                    Comment

                                    • MikeFL52
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Oct 2007
                                      • 118

                                      #19
                                      A resitance meter or multimeter that can measure resistance. It simply applies a small volatage across the wire and measures the resistance. If they are all the same then it was not the cacbles. I have one and they are pretty handy to have if you have a lot of cabling, you can pick them up pretty cheap at Radio Shack or Amazon.

                                      Comment

                                      • Hammie
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2005
                                        • 304

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by MikeFL52
                                        A resitance meter or multimeter that can measure resistance. It simply applies a small volatage across the wire and measures the resistance. If they are all the same then it was not the cacbles. I have one and they are pretty handy to have if you have a lot of cabling, you can pick them up pretty cheap at Radio Shack or Amazon.
                                        Okay, I have a multimeter, but it does not seem to register anything when try it.

                                        Where do I put the probes when trying to measure it? Also, what settings should I set the MM at?

                                        Sorry if I'm sounding thick. I just want to make sure I do this correctly.
                                        Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                                        Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                                        Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                                        Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                                        B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                                        Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                                        My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                                        Next Upgrade: Cables

                                        Comment

                                        • MikeFL52
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Oct 2007
                                          • 118

                                          #21
                                          Make sure that the battery is good, then just apply it across the center to center and you should get a reading in ohms. Make sure that you have it switched to the ohm sign.

                                          Comment

                                          • Hammie
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Oct 2005
                                            • 304

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by MikeFL52
                                            Make sure that the battery is good, then just apply it across the center to center and you should get a reading in ohms. Make sure that you have it switched to the ohm sign.
                                            I get zero for all the cables.

                                            - Battery is new
                                            - Setting is at 200 on the Ohms
                                            - Touching the probes on the center prongs of the RCA cable.
                                            - Initial result varies but always ends in zero after about 3-8 seconds
                                            Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                                            Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                                            Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                                            Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                                            B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                                            Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                                            My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                                            Next Upgrade: Cables

                                            Comment

                                            • MikeFL52
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Oct 2007
                                              • 118

                                              #23
                                              I have no idea why you should get zero resistance. All cables have some resistance.

                                              Comment

                                              • aarsoe
                                                Senior Member
                                                • May 2004
                                                • 795

                                                #24
                                                Unless you have something much better than the average multimeter, you will always see 0 ohm, as you will need to be close to 1 kilometer to get just a single ohm or two as resistance.

                                                Comment

                                                • style
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Feb 2006
                                                  • 1562

                                                  #25
                                                  Hooolééé!!!!!

                                                  that TOTALY normal, each B&W800 see like this out!!!!

                                                  only NEW, just received from the dealer youhave a "perfectin optical" FST but look good and yours after houres of listing sound great!

                                                  style

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Hammie
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Oct 2005
                                                    • 304

                                                    #26
                                                    Interesting you would say it is normal.

                                                    I was at my dealer yesterday ordering my new surrounds and they told me it was not normal and I have two replacement FST drivers being ordered.
                                                    Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                                                    Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                                                    Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                                                    Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                                                    B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                                                    Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                                                    My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                                                    Next Upgrade: Cables

                                                    Comment

                                                    • emig5m
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Aug 2008
                                                      • 646

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by louhamilton
                                                      Interesting you would say it is normal.

                                                      I was at my dealer yesterday ordering my new surrounds and they told me it was not normal and I have two replacement FST drivers being ordered.
                                                      Are you serious? Are you getting new drivers because of the frays? Are they being replaced for free under warranty? All of my B&W's with the FST mids has had those same exact frays. At first when I had the 600 series I seriously had thought that they bin picked the best kevlar cones for the 800 series and any ones with slight defects such as fraying but not enough to effect the sound went to the lower end models. I was shocked that my 800 series also had the same fraying on the drivers - I had expected perfection with a speaker of this price. I'm not really nitpicky like that, but come on, for the price of these things they should be "perfect". Well at least the sound is perfect. :lol: Like I said, I'm not uber nitpicky with stuff like this, they sound stellar, but it's just the idea of the price and that they're B&W's flagship lineup/series.

                                                      Comment

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