Sub to go with 802D,804S

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • ray5
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 444

    Sub to go with 802D,804S

    Hi Guys,
    I am waiting for my 804S to arrive and join the 802D and HTM2D which are the fronts. They will come with Rotel 1572 to drive them. My fronts are driven by Rotel 1091 and 1092.
    I need advise about a sub. My room is 24 ft by 22 ft with 13 ft ceilings and the back opens into the dining are( I know, far from ideal!)
    This is general family area and not dedicated HT room. What subs would be adequate for this sized room and system? I have exhausted my resources so can't afford a 800 series sub.
    Thanks,
    Ray
  • sunshdw
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 92

    #2
    Well depending on what B&W sub you're looking/talking about, how about the JL fathom 112?? 1k cheaper than the 855 and will hammer just as hard. There has been a couple used F113's on audiogon too
    Magnepan,ARC,VTL,Transparent Audio ;x(

    "The term "audiophile" means essentially nothing -- it's a self-anointed status that entails no credentials, qualifications or certifications. It means "hobbyist," nothing more, and anyone can lay claim to it. Ironically, I've come to recognize that "audiophiles" represent a group that will believe almost anything"

    Comment

    • SoundEngine355
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2008
      • 313

      #3
      Velodyne DD12 or DD15
      SoundEngine355

      -------------------
      [Music] B&W 800D | Classe CDP202 +M400s | Velodyne DD15

      Comment

      • KahunaCanuck
        Senior Member
        • May 2008
        • 222

        #4
        The ones the other guys listed are great, but still expensive. I love my SVS PC13 Ultra, lots of power for your room and still reasonable, even brand new. I also have their Sub Eq1 that controls your bass. Look up SV Sound...you will be happy.
        Kahuna's Theatre

        Comment

        • btf1980
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2007
          • 704

          #5
          Another vote for JL Audio Fathom f112, or the f113 if your finances can spring it. It's something serious.
          A camera, passport, good music, good food and good company is all I need.

          Comment

          • style
            Super Senior Member
            • Feb 2006
            • 1562

            #6
            Hallo,

            I had the RB1092 for the L&R, RB1091 Center and another RB1092 for the rear
            with the 803D, htm2D and 805S rear...Yes you need the sub.

            Now with the Classe the sound is very different (5x200w) and the sub is not soo
            indispensable....I can have a real music/sound without sub, I can life without too!


            Sorry but buecouse the 804s for the rear??? wait but go with all in Diamont 8O :W do't wasted your money for the 804s....a CM9 make the same work ops:

            Style

            Comment

            • MikeFL52
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2007
              • 118

              #7
              Originally posted by KahunaCanuck
              The ones the other guys listed are great, but still expensive. I love my SVS PC13 Ultra, lots of power for your room and still reasonable, even brand new. I also have their Sub Eq1 that controls your bass. Look up SV Sound...you will be happy.
              +1, Maybe even get two for less than the price of an f113

              Comment

              • ray5
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 444

                #8
                Originally posted by KahunaCanuck
                The ones the other guys listed are great, but still expensive. I love my SVS PC13 Ultra, lots of power for your room and still reasonable, even brand new. I also have their Sub Eq1 that controls your bass. Look up SV Sound...you will be happy.
                Thanks. The options are expensive except SVS. I have no experience with cylindrical subs. What's the difference except for looks?
                Ray

                Comment

                • KahunaCanuck
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2008
                  • 222

                  #9
                  I actually have one of each...I would get the cylinders only in the future, I ordered the box first. They are both big, but the useful space the cylinder takes up is much less. Performance wise they are identical.
                  Kahuna's Theatre

                  Comment

                  • Hammie
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 304

                    #10
                    I agree. You can't go wrong with SVS. The bang for your buck is ridiculous for what you get. I love my SVS. I wish 2 would fit into the WAF.
                    Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                    Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                    Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                    Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                    B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                    Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                    My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                    Next Upgrade: Cables

                    Comment

                    • 1oldguy
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 459

                      #11
                      Hi ray

                      I have a New ASW855 if your interested.
                      A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.

                      Comment

                      • ray5
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 444

                        #12
                        Originally posted by 1oldguy
                        Hi ray

                        I have a New ASW855 if your interested.
                        PM me with your price etc.
                        Ray

                        Comment

                        • dmccombs
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 306

                          #13
                          Originally posted by sunshdw
                          Well depending on what B&W sub you're looking/talking about, how about the JL fathom 112?? 1k cheaper than the 855 and will hammer just as hard. There has been a couple used F113's on audiogon too
                          I have your exact combination of speakers (802D, HTM2D, 804S), and I agree with Sunsdw. I went with the JL fathom 112 and have been quite pleased. The closed enclosure sub give a nice tight bass that is good for music and movies.

                          Comment

                          • ray5
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 444

                            #14
                            Thanks guys. What are the things to look for when evaluating a sub i.e specs?
                            Ray

                            Comment

                            • Horacio
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 142

                              #15
                              Originally posted by dmccombs
                              I have your exact combination of speakers (802D, HTM2D, 804S), and I agree with Sunsdw. I went with the JL fathom 112 and have been quite pleased. The closed enclosure sub give a nice tight bass that is good for music and movies.
                              Actually, common wisdom points to closed enclosure subs to go best with closed enclosure speakers and open-box speakers to go best with open-box subs. Cone behavior after the signal is gone match more closely to each other.

                              The 800-series is open box, so open-box subs should generally match better. I'm not saying the closed enclosure ones will sound bad, as two posters previously pointed it does work for them. However you might get better integration with open boxes. Take a look at the REL ST series (Studio, Stadium, Storm) used at Audiogon.

                              I guess one sub crossed over around 35 Hz should suffice with 802D as fronts.

                              I hope it helps.

                              Horacio

                              Comment

                              • ray5
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 444

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Horacio
                                Actually, common wisdom points to closed enclosure subs to go best with closed enclosure speakers and open-box speakers to go best with open-box subs. Cone behavior after the signal is gone match more closely to each other.

                                The 800-series is open box, so open-box subs should generally match better. I'm not saying the closed enclosure ones will sound bad, as two posters previously pointed it does work for them. However you might get better integration with open boxes. Take a look at the REL ST series (Studio, Stadium, Storm) used at Audiogon.

                                I guess one sub crossed over around 35 Hz should suffice with 802D as fronts.

                                I hope it helps.

                                Horacio
                                Thanks. Can you elaborate the concept of open and closed box systems?
                                Ray

                                Comment

                                • dmccombs
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Sep 2006
                                  • 306

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Horacio
                                  Actually, common wisdom points to closed enclosure subs to go best with closed enclosure speakers and open-box speakers to go best with open-box subs. Cone behavior after the signal is gone match more closely to each other.

                                  The 800-series is open box, so open-box subs should generally match better. I'm not saying the closed enclosure ones will sound bad, as two posters previously pointed it does work for them. However you might get better integration with open boxes. Take a look at the REL ST series (Studio, Stadium, Storm) used at Audiogon.

                                  I guess one sub crossed over around 35 Hz should suffice with 802D as fronts.

                                  I hope it helps.

                                  Horacio
                                  I am not one to go against common wisdom... Oh wait, yes I am, sometimes... :B

                                  I used to have an open SVS sub in my system with the B&W speakers. I could sometimes hear a slight "huff" type sound form the sub. It was subtle, but it was there. I went to the closed JL Audio 12" sub and it sound much tighter and cohesive to my ears. So in my experience, the closed sub with open speakers was a better match.

                                  In all fairness though I went from a mid-level SVS sub to a higher-end JL sub. One would expect there to be some improvement even if I had gone with a high-end open sub.

                                  Despite common wisdom, I will go with my limited hands on experience and recommend the JL sub. Other Audio folks have listened to my system and commented that they never heard a sub integrate so well when listening to music (I use the sub with 5.1 sources). A lot of this is because of the SMS-1 EQ I used to setup the sub, but part is that tight sounding 12" sub matches well with my 802Ds.

                                  Comment

                                  • amdan
                                    Member
                                    • Sep 2006
                                    • 72

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by ray5
                                    Hi Guys,
                                    I am waiting for my 804S to arrive and join the 802D and HTM2D which are the fronts. They will come with Rotel 1572 to drive them. My fronts are driven by Rotel 1091 and 1092.
                                    I need advise about a sub. My room is 24 ft by 22 ft with 13 ft ceilings and the back opens into the dining are( I know, far from ideal!)
                                    This is general family area and not dedicated HT room. What subs would be adequate for this sized room and system? I have exhausted my resources so can't afford a 800 series sub.
                                    Thanks,
                                    Ray
                                    Hi Ray,
                                    I have an 800 series sub (ASW 825) on sale on audiogon for half price if you are interested. It is an excellent sub and in as new condition. I bought it because I thought I needed more bass for my music only system. However, I then found that the lack of bass was due to one of my system tweaks. Once the tweak was removed the bass (actually mid-bass; it was the kick drums that were the problem area) was perfect. So the sub is now surplus to needs and taking up space in the garage. If you are aiming for a music only system I would recommend going without the sub but given that you are creating a HT system they may be necessary.
                                    Good luck with your search.
                                    Regards.

                                    PS. Could you please pm me soon if you are interested. I am intending to put it on eBay over the next few days. Thanks.

                                    Comment

                                    • dknightd
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Mar 2006
                                      • 621

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by amdan
                                      However, I then found that the lack of bass was due to one of my system tweaks. Once the tweak was removed the bass (actually mid-bass; it was the kick drums that were the problem area) was perfect.
                                      I can't help wondering what the tweak was. Do you mind telling us (so perhaps we can avoid the same thing)? Thanks

                                      Comment

                                      • amdan
                                        Member
                                        • Sep 2006
                                        • 72

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by dknightd
                                        I can't help wondering what the tweak was. Do you mind telling us (so perhaps we can avoid the same thing)? Thanks
                                        And embarass me publically?

                                        Just joking. In my defence I was single mindedly pursuing the goal of 'in the room' presence of vocalist and instruments - the sort that you get with valve systems. Ferrite beads help tremendously with this. My theory is that the more top end you damp the better the 'in the room' presence. I went crazy with the ferrite beads and whilst I achieved my goal, I didn't notice that I lost some PRAT and the 'kick' in kick drums. The bass became a little lost and undefined. I have since done some research and discovered that the 3000 to 5000 Hz range is important in the impact of kick drums. The excessive ferrite beads overdamped this range hence my 'bass' problem. Removing them from the speaker cables eliminated the problem. However, I still have them on my interconnects and power cable to the CDP. I believe I have now achieved the best balance between the two goals - 'in the room presence' and bass impact.

                                        Comment

                                        • ray5
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Dec 2008
                                          • 444

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by amdan
                                          Hi Ray,
                                          I have an 800 series sub (ASW 825) on sale on audiogon for half price if you are interested. It is an excellent sub and in as new condition. I bought it because I thought I needed more bass for my music only system. However, I then found that the lack of bass was due to one of my system tweaks. Once the tweak was removed the bass (actually mid-bass; it was the kick drums that were the problem area) was perfect. So the sub is now surplus to needs and taking up space in the garage. If you are aiming for a music only system I would recommend going without the sub but given that you are creating a HT system they may be necessary.
                                          Good luck with your search.
                                          Regards.

                                          PS. Could you please pm me soon if you are interested. I am intending to put it on eBay over the next few days. Thanks.
                                          Just sent you a PM.
                                          Ray

                                          Comment

                                          • Horacio
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Jan 2005
                                            • 142

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by ray5
                                            Thanks. Can you elaborate the concept of open and closed box systems?
                                            Ray
                                            Certainly: open or vented boxes are speakers (and subs) with an opening in the cabinet (those holes in the 800-series with the golf-ball like surface that allegedly reduces noise). The holes help boost the bass output (aka volume) at the expense of their tightness, so it's a practical solution for small diameter woofers. When the cones are released from an electrical signal coming from the amp, they get back to the "zero" position with a certain behavior.
                                            Closed boxes do not have those holes, thus when the cone moves due to an electrical signal they have to move air inside the box that cannot flow as easily bacause it's a sealed box...so bass output is lower but very tight.

                                            You should not read this as one is better than the other one, but rather that they are different, and hence chances are the same design type at a given price point will be a better match.

                                            Not going to get into a useless JL vs REL argument as it wouldn't change anybody's mind and wouldn't help you. take a look at reviews and forums and make up your own mind, and listen if you get a chance. I believe both a very good products (for that matter, so are the higher end Velodyne, I believe).

                                            My two cents.
                                            Horacio

                                            Comment

                                            • RNKC
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jun 2005
                                              • 197

                                              #23
                                              I recently purchased an ASW855 on Audiogon to complete my system. After a few months using it, I must say I still like it. The benefit of using a B&W sub is that it will seamlessly match the rest of your B&W system.

                                              An ASW825 is likely sufficient for your room, but you might not regret the 855 either. Consider this - you have 802D up front right now. Sonically speaking (i.e. money aside), would you be happier with 801D or 800D up front, or would those speakers be too much for the room?

                                              If you think you can reasonably accommodate larger fronts, you could similarly get away with a larger sub too.

                                              Comment

                                              • dknightd
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Mar 2006
                                                • 621

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by amdan
                                                I have since done some research and discovered that the 3000 to 5000 Hz range is important in the impact of kick drums. The excessive ferrite beads overdamped this range hence my 'bass' problem. Removing them from the speaker cables eliminated the problem.
                                                Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

                                                Comment

                                                • ray5
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Dec 2008
                                                  • 444

                                                  #25
                                                  Hi Guys,
                                                  Got the Fathom F112 home! Haven't hooked them up yet but they sound really good and what excursions!
                                                  Ray

                                                  Comment

                                                  Working...
                                                  😀
                                                  😂
                                                  🥰
                                                  😘
                                                  🤢
                                                  😎
                                                  😞
                                                  😡
                                                  👍
                                                  👎
                                                  Searching...Please wait.
                                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                  An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                  There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                  Search Result for "|||"