Cables for 804S + tubes?

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  • Horacio
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2005
    • 142

    Cables for 804S + tubes?

    I'm starting my search into speaker cables for my 804S driven by McIntosh MC275 and would very much appreciate members' insight into what has work for them.

    We all know these threads weren't allowed until now, and this is sort of an experiment, so let's behave! :T
    Please note I'm not shooting for which is the best cable in the neighbouring 3 galaxies, nor we want to bash any products.
    Neither am I asking if cables make any difference or not.
    Let's try and keep it nice so we can share knowledge amongst us who believe cables make a difference and learn what has worked for others.

    It would help, though, to know if a recommendation is based on comparisons with other cables or not.

    Right now I'm using heavy gauge magnet wire emmulating anti cables and they sound better than heavy gauge PVC power cable used as speaker cables. Moreover, I'm biwiring and I did notice a significant improvement in the bass when twisting the pair going into the woofer and leaving the other pair untwisted. Yet I believe there should be room for improvement. I have heard of expensive Nordost, MIT S1, Cardas Golden Ref, and Tara Labs RSC as having worked well for others. What's puzzling is all these differ quite a bit in geomtry/principle...I was hoping a certain type would generally prevail over others. Oh well.

    Thoughts/input?

    Horacio
  • Opus007
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2007
    • 454

    #2
    I can not comment on cables for your system as mine differs considerably.See my sig.But I have tried Nordost Red Dwans and Blue Havens and they where to bright for my system.I tried Synergistic Reasearch Kaleidoscope Phase II's and although they sounded good I found them to be lacking but I just could not put my finger on where they where lacking but something seemed to be missing.Currently I have all MIT Shotgun S3 and they are around the 250 hour mark with another 100 hours before full break in and I must say they present a fuller sound stage and clarity,and musicality that I did not find with the others.
    But of course your system being different none of this applies to you but may help someone else.

    Comment

    • Opus007
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2007
      • 454

      #3
      Opps sorry I should of read your post more thoroughly as I am speaking about Interconnects.Disregard.

      Comment

      • george_k
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2004
        • 342

        #4
        Horacio, are you driving your 804 with a single 275? If so, can you comment on the sound, is the 275 capable at driving the speakers?

        Comment

        • Briz vegas
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 1199

          #5
          You can make the 804s sound this good :jawdrop: if setup well. I've had mine for about 3 years and I keep finding ways to improve the sound further.

          So you are happy with the sound but you are wondering if there is more to be had using different speaker cables?

          Can you post a picture of your current setup and describe it in more detail. It may improve the quality of the advice you get.

          I went from "off the reel" copper to Red Dawn then traded up to Nordost Frey. Each time I was happy to pay the price and trading up made it seem easier as the Frey are not cheap.

          $ for $ you can do better with other changes to the system but we all live with constraints. I'm currently looking at acoustic panels and have a borrowed set in my room right now. They make a good system sound fabulous. What I did notice is that the tonal balance improved alot with the room treatment. Some people use speaker cables to tune the system and some say that Nordost cables are bright. A non hifi owning friend heard my system for the first time last week and his comments were "wow it sounds so warm and immediate like the singer is in the room".

          If I was doing it again I would start with the room first. You may soon discover that those bright cables with the nice detail are actually not bright once you get rid of some of those room reflections. You may also be so happy with the sound that you can't be bothered to spend money on cables. Of course I have both and no regrets at all.

          I can't comment on geometry etc as I am not a technician but my ears have over 30 years hifi listening experience to draw on.
          Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
          Siamese :evil: :twisted:

          Comment

          • Horacio
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2005
            • 142

            #6
            Originally posted by george_k
            Horacio, are you driving your 804 with a single 275? If so, can you comment on the sound, is the 275 capable at driving the speakers?

            Hi George.

            The 275 drives the 804S extremely well. I previously had a Rotel 1080 (200 Wpc) and switched over to the 275 because the trebble was too bright and edgy, in my opinion, and was sort of expecting less bass from the 275 when compared to the 1080...after all its 75 Wpc vs. 200 Wpc. However I get more bass from the 275 than I did from the 1080, and the mids/trebble are far better of course.

            One knowledgeble member at Audio Asylum explained the 804S is overdamped and the 1080 has a hi damping factor and that's why the combination sounds lean. On the other hand the 275 has a low damping factor and according to him that's why the bass is fuller/nicer. Not sure if that's the explanation, but it sure sounds nicer!

            Really a fantastic combination!


            Horacio

            Comment

            • Horacio
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2005
              • 142

              #7
              Hi Briz.

              I agree with you 100%. Both of us drive 804S with tubes and both are very happy.

              I am working on a few fronts regarding my setup, in this order of priority:
              • Room Treatments: been playing a lot with positioning with very good results. Reading a lot and understanding reflections and comb filtering, and I'm looking into building absorbing panels for the first reflection points plus thick carpet. Also planning to add DIY bass traps. All these in the living room, so the WAF is key and a significant negotiation as far as aesthetics go. This is by far where I´m focusing most of my efforts now. So again I agree with you!
              • Power supply: I have two dedicated lines, but el cheapo outlets and power cords. Re positioning of the system led to extending the lines, now with solid core, and looking into better outlets and later better power cords.
              • Vibration control: Also looking at building a new, very sturdy rack, plus some vibration control devices. This will be tackled after I finish the power lines and make further inroads into treatments.


              Only after these it is that I'm looking at speaker cables. I know the 804S and the MC275 are staying for a good while. Not sure about my pre and CD player, and hence interconnects.

              You asked about the rest of my system: rolled signal tubes in the MC275, REL Storm III (staying), Rotel RC1070 (pre) and Rotel RCD1072 (CD player). As far as electronics go, the likely next step would be to replace the pre with a good DAC with volume control, but that's over a year away at minimum. Interconnects are currently Nordost Black Night.

              I hope this helps.
              Looking forward to all comments.

              BTW: are you biwiring with the Frey? Did you compare the Frey to other speaker cables when upgrading?


              Regards,
              Horacio

              Comment

              • htsteve
                Super Senior Member
                • Sep 2004
                • 1216

                #8
                Horacio,

                You have an excellent plan. The acoustic treatments should be a decided improvement. And vibration control does help as well. This is what I've been doing this year, and I am quite happy with the results.

                Comment

                • Horacio
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2005
                  • 142

                  #9
                  Thank you Steve. I, too, have about a year's worth of work ahead of me.

                  I recall you drive your 800-series with Mc albeit solid state. What has worked for you?

                  Horacio

                  Comment

                  • htsteve
                    Super Senior Member
                    • Sep 2004
                    • 1216

                    #10
                    Horacio,

                    I started with an MC205 (5 X 200). This drove them quite well. However, based on past experience, a stereo amp for the mains was the way to go, even for an HT set-up. Stereo amps can simply deliver the current, bass and refinement to the mains that multi-channels cant do because they are sharing.

                    My dealer got an barely used MC252 (2 X 250) and made me a good deal. So that is what I am using. The added bass, impact and refinement that the 252 provides is quite excellent. Couple that with the room treatments and the 802D's are awesome performers.


                    I know the solid state Mac and B&W sound is smooth. So I can imagine 800 series with tubes is really SMOOOOOOOOOOTH.


                    Hope this helps.

                    Comment

                    • Horacio
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 142

                      #11
                      Steve,

                      Indeed, the combo sounds smooth. That's particularly good with the aluminum tweeters in the 804S. Diamonds, of course, are a different story.

                      What are you using as far as speaker cables go, for your mains?
                      BTW, I LOVE the 802D!

                      Horacio

                      Comment

                      • Horacio
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2005
                        • 142

                        #12
                        Thanks to all who submitted suggestions/experiences. I truly appreciate you taking the time.

                        I was expecting feedback from more people, though. Considering there are 186 replies to "which electronics to pair with my B&W" I thought more people would be interested in sharing their experiences with speaker cables & B&W, now that we are allowed to.


                        Please, please???

                        Comment

                        • Hammie
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 304

                          #13
                          Well, I don't have any tube amps. Maybe that is what is turning some people away from this thread.

                          I have 804s and use a Denon 3830 as my pre/pro and an Emotiva XPA-5 amp. I am using Monoprice 12/4 cables as my speaker wire. I bought some techflex wire sleeving and some Heat Shrink Tubing (HST) and created my own cables. I plan on upgrading my banana plugs, but here is what I am running. They are current in bi-wire configuration. I may do Bi-amp one day but do not have the room currently in my cabinet (WAF limitation).

                          Panasonic TC-P65VT30
                          Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
                          Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
                          Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
                          B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
                          Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
                          My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
                          Next Upgrade: Cables

                          Comment

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