For all the lazy speaker builders (me too!)

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15259

    For all the lazy speaker builders (me too!)

    Well, folks, one of our forum sponsers has added a very interesting new product series for those who like to build their own speakers, but don't like all the work, or the sometimes amateur looking cosmetics.

    Even I'm going to try a set of these, for the replacement project for my daughter... (actually, I have the cabnets for her, the first "protos" will be for me, in these new cabinets

    http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&&DID=7&CATID=48&Obje ctGroup_ID=603


    Click image for larger version

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    Parts Express has put many months of work into designing a new line of finished speaker cabinets that offer unique flexibility, highest-quality construction, and outstanding looks. We searched across America, and eventually overseas, to find a company that could make what we were looking for-- and we knew it as soon as the samples came in. The cabinet was just how we imagined it, with a world-class fit, finish, and build quality! As soon as our employees saw the cabinets they exclaimed- "I'll never build a speaker cabinet again!"
    Constructed out of 3/4" MDF with real wood veneers, the quality of these cabinets is outstanding. Each cabinet has 3/4" side and back panels with a 3/4" MDF "shelf" brace running vertically up the sides and across the top and bottom. The baffle is 1" MDF with a black satin finish and rabbeted construction. The rear of the cabinet features two 1/4" holes allowing the simple installation of our knock-in binding posts (#091-1245). The overall cabinet is extremely rigid and solid, with minimized panel resonance.
    The entire cabinet including the rear is covered in premium veneers with a butter-smooth finish. The gloss black cabinets feature a piano quality finish that is extremely glossy and reflective. The Beech cabinets feature a very light-colored, tight-grained wood veneer with a semi-gloss finish, making them fit into any contemporary decor. The Cherry finish is very rich with a relatively strong, wide grain and a semi-gloss finish, making them very elegant. It is important to note that these cabinets use real wood veneers, so some variations in grain and color will naturally occur between cabinets in the Cherry and Beech finishes.
    One of the most innovative features is the exclusive Baffle Replacement and EXchange (B-REX) system, which allows the front baffle to be easily removed for prototyping and construction. The satin black finish baffle has 4 pre-drilled holes for the included grills and guides. Concealed under the grill guides are 4 machine screws and matching T-nuts that secure the baffle to the cabinet, which can be installed or removed an infinite number of times. This is great for initial driver cutouts, allowing the work to take place on a piece of flat stock, rather than on a finished cabinet.
    Thanks to the B-REX system, if you are uncertain whether your speakers are complete, the machine screws by themselves can be used to hold the baffle in place. Once you are ready to finalize the design, they then act as clamps too hold the baffle in place while your glue is setting. Blank baffles are available separately, allowing further possibilities in terms of using a single cabinet for multiple pairs of drivers. As you can see, the versatility offered by the B-REX system is unmatched in any other pre-finished cabinet!
    This cabinet is sold individually and comes complete with baffle, hardware, grill guides, and grill. The front baffle is blank and comes pre-finished without any driver cutouts. All you need is binding posts, crossover parts, port tubes, damping materials, and your drivers to have a complete speaker that will rival the looks of the most lavish audiophile speakers.
    Cabinet Finish:
    Cherry Semi-Gloss
    External Dimensions:
    17" H x 10" W x 12.5" D
    Internal Dimensions:
    15.5" H x 8.5" W x 10.75" D
    Internal Volume*:
    .82 cu. ft.

    * Cabinet volumes have been slightly oversized to allow room for driver and port tube displacements

    THey have smaller and larger versions, in gloss black, cherry or beech; going up to 28 liter designs that might be good for smaller MTM's.

    No line array towers, though! :cry:

    And this is coming from a guy that just bought a new table saw.... :roll:

    Well, it will allow me to concentrate on the big, challenging projects- those pesky little "conventional" projects will be a lot simpler and quicker, as I can concentrate on the acoutical issues, which is my specialty, anyway.

    These will be done with that two way concept I mentioned earlier, with the HiVi D6 woofer....

    Image not available

    The first pair, (for me) will also use one of the sets of Hales tweeters I have (yeah, I know, I'm cheating)

    Image not available

    Subsequent sets will use the Vifa Xt, who's impedance curve, sensitivity, and response are surprisingly similar, though still different enough to require crossover tweaks, of course.

    Click image for larger version

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    So, guys and gals, if you're all thumbs with veneer or a big saw, that's no excuse any more for not turning out a nice looking set for the family room or bedroom (we need something bigger in the living room, according to Jon!)


    Best regards,

    Jon




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    Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:44 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image links
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  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    Its great to see cabinets like this been made available to the masses...it should allow for more people to build DIY speakers at home.
    Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:45 Sunday. Reason: Update text

    Comment

    • Steve Goff
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2002
      • 186

      #3
      Jon,

      Various medical problems have kept me from following through on my surround sound speaker, as discussed in another thread. Would any of these enclosures work with the version Thomas suggested, which used the Woodstyle WD830? It looks like this box would be slightly smaller, but that the Q might still be acceptable.




      Steve Goff
      Steve Goff

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15259

        #4
        Sorry to hear you've had some medical difficulties- I can feel for you, given my recent back problems.

        As long as bass extension isn't required, the 1 cu foot could be adapted to this without much problem; the ease of construction, especially with removable front baffles, should be a real plus. They also have a nice beech version available.

        Now I've got a honey do for my girl friend, because she doesn't like the M8's - "too big". Something in one of the smaller sets, hooked up to one of those all in one electronics things is the size she wants, like the desktop/shelf top mini hifi systems- the Denon preamp and monoblocs I gave her are too much, and she doesn't care about the sound very much.

        She really wants something more alike those desktop HiFi systems with a built in CD player and two little speakers.... she likes the beech cabinets in that new thread I started, so I guess there will be a new mini speaker project or two soon.


        :LOL:

        ~Jon




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        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
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        Comment

        • Dennis H
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Aug 2002
          • 3791

          #5
          Do you think an M8 will fit in any of those? The widest one is 10" and that looks marginal with the rounded front corners.

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 15259

            #6
            The volume would be on the small side for a "normally tuned" M8; though if used with subs < 80 Hz, no problem. We did a mini wall mount M8 for ThomasW with about this volume, sealed, custom crossover, reduced baffle step comp, etc., for his bedroom; they worked quite nice. They'd be fine for surround speakers, or used with a sub.

            Problem is, that HiVi driver is actually an 8.5", so it leaves VERY little on the edge. Now, since they are 1" thick baffles, it might be possible to route them a little deep, recess the woofer re the edge, I don't know.... I'll look at the set when I get them in, and see how the details are, whether it might be possible.

            The first design I'm planning for this 22 liter version (0.75 cu ft) is a 6-1/2"/7" two way, using the HiVi D6 (big voice coil, neodynmium magnet, T/S parameters suited to going "deep" in a smallish box, but not very efficient).

            My guess is you'd want around 50-100 watts to get them lit off well, and they could well justify a 200-300 watt ch. amp with wide dynamic range program material... yeah, I know, that's kind of bizarre for a 22 liter two way, but they've got the Xmax, they've got the VC power handling (think Dynaudio style). Something like my Palladium monoblocks would be cruising easy to drive them... :B

            But in return for this lowish sensitivity (84 dB/watt) and current hungry nature (6 ohm woofer, 4 ohm tweeter), they should crank down into the mid 30's flat, WITH JUST A 22 LITER BOX! That should be good for a few giggles, as in, "Ah, no, I don't have the sub turned on- those little guys are all that's playing....

            I'll try to find and post my Unibox analysis later this week. If these pan out, I'll do a thread on them with the construction, crossover, and results.

            Nothing like X-treme audio... one extreme or another! :W

            ~Jon




            Earth First!
            _______________________________
            We'll screw up the other planets later....
            the AudioWorx
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            In Development...
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            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
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            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • EMT
              Member
              • Aug 2000
              • 44

              #7
              The first design I'm planning for this 22 liter version (0.75 cu ft) is a 6-1/2"/7" two way, using the HiVi D6 (big voice coil, neodynmium magnet, T/S parameters suited to going "deep" in a smallish box, but not very efficient).

              My guess is you'd want around 50-100 watts to get them lit off well, and they could well justify a 200-300 watt ch. amp with wide dynamic range program material... yeah, I know, that's kind of bizarre for a 22 liter two way, but they've got the Xmax, they've got the VC power handling (think Dynaudio style). Something like my Palladium monoblocks would be cruising easy to drive them...

              But in return for this lowish sensitivity (84 dB/watt) and current hungry nature (6 ohm woofer, 4 ohm tweeter), they should crank down into the mid 30's flat, WITH JUST A 22 LITER BOX! That should be good for a few giggles, as in, "Ah, no, I don't have the sub turned on- those little guys are all that's playing....

              I'll try to find and post my Unibox analysis later this week. If these pan out, I'll do a thread on them with the construction, crossover, and results.
              Jon, this sounds like a very interesting project. Will be very curious to see how it turns out.

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15259

                #8
                I'm curious to see, too!


                I found the basic Unibox modeling file I prepared; this is the predicted response, with a 22 liter cabinet tuned to 35 Hz, using a port with 2.5" ID, and the walls lined. This is for a nominal power level of 25 watts, and the predicted 1 meter anechoic response is just under 100 dB; this is near the worst case Xmax limits at the 38-44 Hz area, and 32 Hz; port velocity is well withing reason.

                If you model the box lightly stuffed, the response is about 2 dB further down below 50-60 Hz, and the transient response is better damped, so I think that would be the best way to go, considering the lift you can get from room boundaries anyway. Even for a "high SPL" HT system, this speaker could be crossed over as low as 50 Hz with good results.



                Click image for larger version

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                Regards,

                Jon




                Earth First!
                _______________________________
                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:45 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                the AudioWorx
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                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • Brian Bunge
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Nov 2001
                  • 1389

                  #9
                  Jon,

                  Which cabinets do you plan to use for the smaller speakers? What type of alignment are you looking at?

                  Brian

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15259

                    #10
                    Yvonne hasn't really decided which size she'll tolerate- I'm trying to get her to go with the 0.5 cu foot. Anything smaller and we're looking at shifting over to a 5 of some kind.

                    Using that small a box with the D6, we're looking at a box tuning of about 44 Hz, port length about 9", with an F3 of 42 Hz, which is still pretty respectable....

                    So, it would do low E on a four string bass guitar pretty flat. For half a cubic foot, not bad.

                    -Jon




                    Earth First!
                    _______________________________
                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • JonMarsh
                      Mad Max Moderator
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 15259

                      #11
                      Very minor update... I ordred a set of the 0.75 cu. ft cabinets, and a pair of the D6 drivers this weekend. Hopefull will have them by the beginning of next week. I'll report on the build quality and my impressions...


                      Regards,

                      Jon




                      Earth First!
                      _______________________________
                      We'll screw up the other planets later....
                      the AudioWorx
                      Natalie P
                      M8ta
                      Modula Neo DCC
                      Modula MT XE
                      Modula Xtreme
                      Isiris
                      Wavecor Ardent

                      SMJ
                      Minerva Monitor
                      Calliope
                      Ardent D

                      In Development...
                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                      Obi-Wan
                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                      Modula PWB
                      Calliope CC Supreme
                      Natalie P Ultra
                      Natalie P Supreme
                      Janus BP1 Sub


                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 15259

                        #12
                        Parts are arriving.

                        After checking these boxes out, I'm pretty sure it will be a rare time when I'm building small enclosures from scratch for myself in the near future... :banana: What these pictures don't do justice to is the fit and finish, the fine satin lacquer finish that "screams" quality, and if you saw these, would make you think they were probably from a $2K pair of European build speakers...


                        Here's the goods. The front panels are removable initially, so that they can be routed and cut for drivers, then glued back on for final assembly.

                        Here's a pic of one of the cabinets with the front removed- note the internal bracing to all sides....

                        Image not available

                        These are available in Beech (shown), Cherry, and Piano black.

                        Here's a shot of the front panel laying down- notice the dadoed backside; this is 1" MDF. The finish isn't quite piano smooth, but it's surprisingly close for a front panel.

                        Image not available

                        Here's a backside view- yes, it's finished. Setup for through the wood binding posts, I may install cups anyway. I don't like posts sticking out the back....

                        Image not available

                        And here's the drivers again which I'll be using in the first set. Yes, the midwoofer DOES have a 3" voice coil; but it also has a pretty wide clearance space behind the cone, plus a flat spider. Magnet is neodymium.

                        Image not available

                        Oh, and I think I've found a tweeter that will roughly match the Hales for future projects, too, with similar enough characteristics it will almost be a drop in... ScanSpeak D2904. Just don't look at the cost....


                        Best regards,

                        Jon




                        Earth First!
                        _______________________________
                        We'll screw up the other planets later....
                        Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:47 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image links
                        the AudioWorx
                        Natalie P
                        M8ta
                        Modula Neo DCC
                        Modula MT XE
                        Modula Xtreme
                        Isiris
                        Wavecor Ardent

                        SMJ
                        Minerva Monitor
                        Calliope
                        Ardent D

                        In Development...
                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                        Obi-Wan
                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                        Modula PWB
                        Calliope CC Supreme
                        Natalie P Ultra
                        Natalie P Supreme
                        Janus BP1 Sub


                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

                        • Dennis H
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 3791

                          #13
                          Nice boxes, Jon! Question time (of course.) :LOL:

                          What's the radius on the front corners. Looks like maybe 1/2"? Is the max driver size about 1" smaller than the panel width?

                          Is that front panel pretty stiff? Looks like you could just use some weather stripping and screw the fronts on until you got your ports tuned, your XO tweaked and your stuffing adjusted. Then you could glue them on or maybe just leave them. They look like a tweaker's dream with that removeable front panel.

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15259

                            #14
                            The front radius is about 1/2". For experimenting and tuning, you might not even need the weather stripping- the clearances are quite snug, and just screwing them down, there would be a small Q loss, but possibly not that much. Maybe just a little rubber cement on the back lip...

                            There definitely a tweaker's dream, if only because you can remove the front and do all the work, and you can even buy additional front panels- so you could experiment with a couple of different layouts.

                            This set will not have much experimentation or tweaking, for better or worse- don't have the time. The driver layout is simulated in BDS, the box tuning with Unibox, and I'll do measurements (with the panels NOT glued in) with CLIO then fine tune the crossover with LspCAD. The crossover design is 85% done already, based on preliminary measurement data in test boxes. It's a bit of a departure for me, being based on a series crossover concept from LC Audio, with some significant changes... it's about keeping the component count down so it will fit in a small enclsoure. Also, in another "experiment", I'm going to be trying some Whispermat acoustic foams with barrier septums.

                            Whispermat is designed to absorb, attenuate, and dampen noise. Combines dense, limp flexible, non-lead loaded barriers with Hushcloth.



                            Click image for larger version

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                            This stuff will be going in both the big guys I'm working on and this "babies". We'll see how it works out.

                            Regards,

                            Jon




                            Earth First!
                            _______________________________
                            We'll screw up the other planets later....
                            Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:49 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                            the AudioWorx
                            Natalie P
                            M8ta
                            Modula Neo DCC
                            Modula MT XE
                            Modula Xtreme
                            Isiris
                            Wavecor Ardent

                            SMJ
                            Minerva Monitor
                            Calliope
                            Ardent D

                            In Development...
                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                            Obi-Wan
                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                            Modula PWB
                            Calliope CC Supreme
                            Natalie P Ultra
                            Natalie P Supreme
                            Janus BP1 Sub


                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • JonMarsh
                              Mad Max Moderator
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 15259

                              #15
                              Well, made some progress on this puppy today, too, though I took a detour from my original plan. I found a pair of Vifa XT's around the house that I'd forgotten about, and since these are SUPPOSED to be entered in the "BUDGET" category of the N. CA DIY meet, using some tweeter that would take close to $200 to replace with a fully functional equivalent isn't probably really Kosher...

                              The large field plate/voice coil assembly of the D6 complicates the available rear space for venting into the enclosure, so, given the 1" thick baffles, I decided to go with some rear baffle relief.

                              Image not available

                              There's more meat to the baffle left than might appear to be the case in this photo; also, there's now pretty good rear clearance on the driver. Love those Bosch 45 degree bevel bits!

                              Here's what the final layout looks like, which is mirrored left to right. Other than glueing the front panel in, THE ENCLOSURES ARE FINISHED!

                              Yup, 2 hours worth of routing and trimming, to have a speaker ready to assemble.




                              Click image for larger version

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                              No, the baffles aren't bent, it's just lens distortion because I took the picture in a real close up with the lens backed out.

                              Acoustical tests scheduled for Monday evening.


                              Regards,

                              Jon




                              Earth First!
                              _______________________________
                              We'll screw up the other planets later....
                              Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:51 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                              the AudioWorx
                              Natalie P
                              M8ta
                              Modula Neo DCC
                              Modula MT XE
                              Modula Xtreme
                              Isiris
                              Wavecor Ardent

                              SMJ
                              Minerva Monitor
                              Calliope
                              Ardent D

                              In Development...
                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                              Obi-Wan
                              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                              Modula PWB
                              Calliope CC Supreme
                              Natalie P Ultra
                              Natalie P Supreme
                              Janus BP1 Sub


                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                              Comment

                              • JonMarsh
                                Mad Max Moderator
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 15259

                                #16
                                Last night I took a bit of time to take finish mounting the absorptive foam and a set of drivers in a test box, took some driver data, and put LSPCAD to work- but not for very long. I also almost completed the first set of crossovers last night, and wrapped up assembly of the 2nd network test board this AM.

                                Here, you see the box undergoing test with the "provisional" crossover...

                                Click image for larger version

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                                And below you see the response in room, using RTA, with virtually no tweaking from the LSPCAD design (well, OK, I changed one resistor... so sue me!) (No, sue Ingemar!) :LOL:


                                Image not available


                                For an "in room" RTA curve, this is pretty righteous. The LF driver needs a little break in- the Fs is about 10 Hz higher than spec. But the low component count (for me) crossover is working pretty well, though be warned it doesn include a full tweeter zobel, but using a high DCR coil and modifying the cap value slightly to keep costs down.

                                I've been listening to Jacque Loussier Trio "Play Bach" on the one speaker while working on assembling the other crossover; so far, I'm pretty pleased with what I'm hearing. This set will be going to my duaghter; their are other interseted parties for HT apps requiring small cabinets for mains and surrounds.

                                I haven't known of any manufacturer using this HiVi D6 woofer, which I think is a pretty interesting unit. But scanning through my newest copy of Sterephile, I come across an ad from Totem Acoustics for their "Forest" model. The driver looks like the D6, with it's large dust cap and 12 mounting holes. Checking the specs on the web site, they also site a 3" voice coil, another common characteristic. BTW, a pair of the Forests are $3000. So that should put this little project in perspective, with a materials cost well under $600.

                                Regards,

                                Jon




                                Earth First!
                                _______________________________
                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:52 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link
                                the AudioWorx
                                Natalie P
                                M8ta
                                Modula Neo DCC
                                Modula MT XE
                                Modula Xtreme
                                Isiris
                                Wavecor Ardent

                                SMJ
                                Minerva Monitor
                                Calliope
                                Ardent D

                                In Development...
                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                Obi-Wan
                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                Modula PWB
                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                Natalie P Ultra
                                Natalie P Supreme
                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                Comment

                                • Dennis H
                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                  • Aug 2002
                                  • 3791

                                  #17
                                  I haven't known of any manufacturer using this HiVi D6 woofer
                                  Unless you count HiVi/Swans themselves. They seem to use the D series in all their "high end" speakers lately. Generally D8 in mains and D6 in centers and surrounds.

                                  Images not available
                                  Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:53 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image links

                                  Comment

                                  • JonMarsh
                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 15259

                                    #18
                                    Or how about these puppies?

                                    Click image for larger version

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                                    It's been ages since I've been on the Swan site, so my info is obviously out of date- but then, you'd expect them to be using them! Other guys, it's as if they don't exist- yet, the behavior is quite decent, build quality seems good. These replace a set my daughter and I built when she was 12- that's almost seven years ago, using a Scanspeak Kevlar 7 and Seas H400 tweeter. The D6 is considerably cleaner in the mids than the Scanspeak, though it's still not quite the equal of a good metal cone driver...


                                    Both pairs built and buttoned up. Probably going to adjust the stuffing a little in the next day or so...

                                    Click image for larger version

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                                    They sound pretty nice on the stuff I've listened to so far, like Jacque Lousseir Trio, Michael Hedges, etc. This set is voiced for where my daughter will place them (fairly close to the wall), so they're a little thin out where the stands are in my living room, but pretty nice. Especially for the amount of work. I'll probably do another set later this year optimized for my preferences...

                                    ~Jon




                                    Earth First!
                                    _______________________________
                                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                    Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:54 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                                    the AudioWorx
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                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                    Comment

                                    • Hank
                                      Super Senior Member
                                      • Jul 2002
                                      • 1345

                                      #19
                                      Do they offer an explanation for incorporating so many screw holes. Interesting that they sound cleaner than Scan-Speaks - could be a real *find*.

                                      Comment

                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 15259

                                        #20
                                        Do they offer an explanation for incorporating so many screw holes. Interesting that they sound cleaner than Scan-Speaks - could be a real *find*.

                                        Not that I've ever seen published, or stated in the spec sheet. Now, it does make possible a very secure mounting to the front panel- which never hurts. Maybe you don't need as many as 12, but I've always wondered why the ScanSpeak 7's only have 6. That seems a little low.

                                        What seems to help this driver, aside from the Neodymium magnet which makes possible an unusual pole piece arrangement and large voice coil assembly, is that it seems to be unusually well behaved in the upper regions. I'm purely speculating, but I think with the three inch voice coil, the center dome is working a lot like you'd expect for a 3" dome mid with a polypropylene dome; the remainging cone area doesn't have that much span, (from the junction of dome and VC), and maybe it should be easier to keep under control (considering "normal" voice coil sizes, the radius of the cone is more like what you'd see in a 5").

                                        The measured impedance curve was free of glitches, which is a good sign. The surround seems to be well damped and well behaved. It's not an inexpensive driver, but as 7" drivers go, it seems to have pretty nice bang for the buck. I know the ScanSpeak Revelator woofers are all the rage these days in some circles, but I have trouble getting past the first glitch in the impedance curve at 800 Hz... and the price, too! $183?

                                        After doing some listening evaluations last night, I think I know where I'd like to tweak this version; on the train to work today, I used LspCAD to work out some subtle mods to the tweeter and woofer zobels that may accomplish what is needed. We'll see tonight. If this gets it close, then I'll build another pair with a fully revised crossover for more serious evaluation.

                                        Interesting, if distracting!

                                        ~Jon




                                        Earth First!
                                        _______________________________
                                        We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                        the AudioWorx
                                        Natalie P
                                        M8ta
                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                        Modula MT XE
                                        Modula Xtreme
                                        Isiris
                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                        SMJ
                                        Minerva Monitor
                                        Calliope
                                        Ardent D

                                        In Development...
                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                        Obi-Wan
                                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                        Modula PWB
                                        Calliope CC Supreme
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                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment

                                        • Andrew Pratt
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 16507

                                          #21
                                          How would you compare the sound of these to the M8a IV's?
                                          Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:54 Sunday. Reason: Update text

                                          Comment

                                          • JonMarsh
                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 15259

                                            #22
                                            The "tone target" is pretty similar, but keep in mind these are 1/2 the size, not as efficient, don't go quite as low, and so far are still a bit less refined in the upper midrange to presense range. Also, with the lower component count crossover, shallower slopes, and smaller woofer, they won't play as loud for similar distortion levels. (most folks don't realize that the swept area of a 6-1/2 is about half that of a typical or larger 8" woofer (the HiVi M8a is actually an 8.5").

                                            They almost cost as much in materials as a pair of M8's built from the Woodstyle boxes, also. About 80-85%. Their attraction is compact size, and unusual power handling and bottom end for a speaker that small.

                                            As I mentioned, this set was built to replace a similar size speaker built with ScanSpeak Kevlar 7" woofers, Seas 1" aluminum tweeter, and a modified Woodstyle cabinet. I'd say this set matches the bass performance of the older speaker, but actually excels in the midrange to HF performance. And at a lower total cost. And they're attractive and easy for my 18 year old daughter to carry around! :B

                                            Different goals and priorities, all in all.

                                            You could take this design further, such as an MTM in a bigger box, but it get's pretty expensive in comparison to the return. Let's say you want to extend the LF and dynamic range-

                                            4 D6 will set you back $386- expensive compared to the woofer complement of an M8, but not so bad compared with ScanSpeak 18W/8531 Revelator 7's. It might just be possible to shoe horn these 7's into the 9" wide 1 cu. foot "MTM" version of this cabinet; a pair is $190. Then, to upgrade the tweeter power handling, assuming a similar crossover topology, the tweeter better be upgraded to something like the ScanSpeak D2904- just under $400 a pair. It's either that or a more complex crossover, to protect the Vifa.


                                            Image not available


                                            ~Jon




                                            Earth First!
                                            _______________________________
                                            We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                            Last edited by theSven; 03 September 2023, 12:55 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link
                                            the AudioWorx
                                            Natalie P
                                            M8ta
                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                            Modula MT XE
                                            Modula Xtreme
                                            Isiris
                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                            SMJ
                                            Minerva Monitor
                                            Calliope
                                            Ardent D

                                            In Development...
                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                            Obi-Wan
                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                            Modula PWB
                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                            Comment

                                            • S Smith
                                              Junior Member
                                              • Aug 2003
                                              • 1

                                              #23
                                              FYI:

                                              Jon,

                                              PE no longer stocks the D6. Appears it has been replaced with the D6.8 which shows to have slightly better specs.

                                              Comment

                                              • JonMarsh
                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 15259

                                                #24
                                                Hmmm, curuious. I 've noticed some cutback on them with what they carry from HiVi; they don't have the M6a anymore either.

                                                The D6 is a roughly 6 ohm speaker; the D6.8 is 8 ohms, and as expected, somewhat less sensitive. For a single cabinet system, especially with four hom tweeters like the Hales or the Vifa XT25, the added sensitivity of the D6 is an advantage. Sorry to see they've dropped the D6.

                                                Of course, I'm still waiting from them to start carrying the M12! When that happens, I figure I better buy all the ones I need, in case it's not "popular" and they decide not to carry it for very long, either!

                                                Regards,

                                                Jon




                                                Earth First!
                                                _______________________________
                                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                the AudioWorx
                                                Natalie P
                                                M8ta
                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                Modula MT XE
                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                Isiris
                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                SMJ
                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                Calliope
                                                Ardent D

                                                In Development...
                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                Obi-Wan
                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                Modula PWB
                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                Comment

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