Rotel upgrade help please...

[Troy.S]

I’m very new to home theater and higher quality audio components. I must admit I don’t know much about audio equipment. I often can’t follow some of the conversations on this and other forums when they get very technical. I don’t even have a good understanding of how separate components fit / work together such as a pre amp and amp or using a receiver as a pre amp etc….

I’m ready to upgrade my current receiver which is an Onkyo TX-SV444. I have NHT speakers 2.5s front L/R, Audio Center I, Super One rear channels and Sub Two sub) will not be upgrading these for some time. I don’t typically trade equipment often; tend to hang on to things until they give out. On a recent and rare trip to a local audio store I was introduced to Rotel products. I was very impressed by the look-feel-sound of them. I also like the idea of separate components as opposed to all in one for issues such as upgrading and obsolescence. My questions are…

Does anyone know of a good resource to get up to speed on audio components, how they’re used and what this means to sound quality?

For getting into some of the Rotel equipment on a budget, is buying used a good option on some components? and not on others?

Where is a good place to look for used equipment?

As my needs are 50% music 50% HT, what are some recommendations for specific components?

I’ll stop here for now. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Troy.S




Troy.S

[SayersWeb]

I don’t even have a good understanding of how separate components fit / work together such as a pre amp and amp or using a receiver as a pre amp etc…

Think of a receiver as an amp, preamp (has the input jacks, and switching circuitry plus volume control, etc.), and a surround sound processor all rolled up into one. Lately, even "separates" often roll the preamp & surround processor into one often referred to as a pre/pro. Then you just connect an external amp and have the complete package.

Modern receivers often have "preamp outputs" which allow you to treat the receiver as a pre/pro. Basically you skip the onboard amplifiers and use external ones. This is because the onboard amps are usually less powerful and don't have the quality in sound that the external ones can provide.

I’m ready to upgrade my current receiver which is an Onkyo TX-SV444. I have NHT speakers 2.5s front L/R, Audio Center I, Super One rear channels and Sub Two sub) will not be upgrading these for some time. I don’t typically trade equipment often; tend to hang on to things until they give out. On a recent and rare trip to a local audio store I was introduced to Rotel products. I was very impressed by the look-feel-sound of them. I also like the idea of separate components as opposed to all in one for issues such as upgrading and obsolescence. My questions are…

Does anyone know of a good resource to get up to speed on audio components, how they’re used and what this means to sound quality?

These types of forums are a great start. The question of sound quality is very controversial. Some people buy the cheapest of receivers and speakers and are quite happy. Others find that they need big speakers and big sound to make them happy. Others find these bigger speakers and sound are not accurate or smooth enough. Others find..... Get my point?

The most important thing is to find what sounds good to you (and anyone else in your family that will share the system). It doesn't hurt to use other's opinions to get a general idea of where to start looking.

I've been upgrading audio (and more recently video) equipment for about 25 years now. When I upgrade a component it sounds great but then shows the weaknesses of the other components, so then I want to upgrade them too. It just goes on and on, with usually a few good years between major upgrades.

For getting into some of the Rotel equipment on a budget, is buying used a good option on some components? and not on others?

Where is a good place to look for used equipment?

http://www.audiogon.com

http://www.audioweb.com

As my needs are 50% music 50% HT, what are some recommendations for specific components?

Certain things are great to buy used.... amplifiers are a good example. This is a mature technology that doesn't change much. Something you probably want to buy new is a surround processor. This technology changes every few months. To get the latest formats you will probably have to buy new.

If I were you, I'd come up with a long range plan that involved an upgrade path. Many people start with a receiver that has the latest formats and has pre-amp outputs for expansion. Then when your budget allows you can buy a quality 5 or 7 channel amp. You will still use the receiver as the pre/pro, but now will have an amp that will give you much better sound. Get the best amp that you can afford. I just bought a used ATI 2505 for $1200 (lists at $2700), it sounds incredible and will last for years.

Then when your budget allows, you can upgrade to a high quality pre/pro to match up with your amp. This is when you move the receiver to the bedroom or den (or sell it). Just remember that a pre/pro will need upgrading every few years, but at the same time it is a huge factor in the quality of your sound. It also needs to do an excellent job of handling/switching video. So, you need to buy a quality unit. I just bought a Rotel RSP-1066 and it is quite excellent.

Of course, along the way you will probably want a high-def video display. Hmmm... maybe a progressive scan (PS) DVD player that also handles DVD Audio and SACD. Maybe a nice satellite dish system and a PVR (Tivo)..... :P

Just come up with a plan, read as much as possible, visit local shops and see as much as possible, and refrain from impulse buying. Every time I have bought home theater gear on impusle (without thorough research) it has been the wrong decision.

Oh, and don't get too caught up in it. Remember, the main objective is to enjoy audio and video, not collect the ultimate dream system to impress others.




Sayer - Musical Creations and Home Page

[Troy.S]

SayersWeb:
Thanks for the information. It's a great help! A follow up question. When buying used equipment, does the warranty transfer to the new owner if there's any time remaining or is it not transferable? In your experience, do the audio shops that handle Rotel work with you to handle problems even if the product isn't from their shop? Perhaps this is very dependant on the shop...
Thanks again, I appreciate your help!




Troy.S

[SayersWeb]

SayersWeb:
Thanks for the information. It's a great help! A follow up question. When buying used equipment, does the warranty transfer to the new owner if there's any time remaining or is it not transferable? In your experience, do the audio shops that handle Rotel work with you to handle problems even if the product isn't from their shop? Perhaps this is very dependant on the shop...
Thanks again, I appreciate your help!

Glad to be of help.

Rotel will not allow transfer of the warranty. I'm not sure how other manufacturers handle it. I've bought a good amount of used gear (for my HT and my music studio) over the years and have had very good luck. It's a tradeoff of how much $$ you can save versus the risk of buying used.




Sayer - Musical Creations and Home Page

[fyonn]

heya troy

just to make sure you're clear on what someof these components do, I thought I'd run over them anyways.

at the start of the chain you have your sources. cd player, tuner, tape deck etc (lets skip digital sources and lp's for now). they have 2 phono outputs (ie stereo LR) which produces a "line level signal". tihs basically means that the signal coming out of them is roughly equivalent between a tnuer/cd/tape.

then you have a preamp. a preamp typically takes several line level inputs (from your analogue sources),allows you to select one to play and allows you to change the volume, ie reduce the signal in strength. this produces a line level output.

a power amp take a line level input (from your preamp, or even directly from a cdplayer if you like, although I wouldn't do that unless your cd player has it's own volume control, otherwise things will be mighty loud . anways, it takes a line level input and amplifies it to be storng enough to drive speakers.

a surrond sound processor takes an input, 'processes' it and has an output, often more that just stereo. these often (but not always) have digital inputs so that they can accept things like dolby digital.

a DAC is digital to analogue converter. your cd player will have a DAC in it to convert the digital data coming off the CD into an analogue signal suitable for amplification. most cd players also have a digital output as well.

a modern surround sound receiver, like your onkyo (if it is what I think it is) is most of these components all put together in one box. it'll have a pre-amp, several power amp's. several dac's (so it can take digital inputs, a surround sound processor with digital inputs and most probably, a tuner too. there's a good chance it'll have "pre-out's" which mean that it'll have 6 (if it's a 5.1 system) or 8 (if it's a 7.1 system) outputs that you can connect to your own poweramp's if you don't want to use the ones in the receiver.

it is usually beneficial to seperate these things out. I used to have a pioneer receiver which powered all my speakers. it did pretty well at this but my main LR speakers are kef reference 1's which aren't the easiest of speakers to drive (in fact, I think they are pretty hard). when I found a 5 channel power amp cheap in a shpo's second hand pile (a sony tan9000es) I bought itand the first thing I noticed when I hooked it up to my system (via the pre-out's on my pioneer) was that the amp's were alot more capable of coping with the difficult load my speakers presented and I suddenly had a lot more bass in the system.

I then sold the pioneer and bought a rotel 1066 pre/pro (ie preapm/ processor and dac in one) and I've been very happy.

has that helped?

dave

[Andrew Pratt]

Great to see a new Roteler being helped along. Welcome to our world

[Troy.S]

Dave:
Thanks a bunch for the info! This is all starting to make sense...




Troy.S

[Danbry39]

Troy,

I just wanted to add that, in my opinion, separates just sound better than any receiver I've heard, although I readily admit I haven't heard every quality receiver there is. When I shifted from a receiver to separates, I first bought an outboard, dedicated power amp and that simply blew the amp of my Onkyo out of the water. To me, that was the biggest improvement. You spend a good deal of time listening to music. That's where the pre/pro comes in. Somehow, the two channel sound coming out of separates is much, much better, at least to my ears. Since I got my separates and my new very special, to me, CD player, I listen to around 5 hours of music a day. Before, just with my receiver, I listened to maybe half that a week. I'm an older fellow who grew up with 2 channel systems, but Audio/Video 5 channel receivers never delivered the goods in two channel nearly as well as my current system does, albeit I did have to spend more money.




Keith