Inexpensive Digital Crosssover/EQ

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  • intelonetwo
    Member
    • Jan 2003
    • 48

    Inexpensive Digital Crosssover/EQ

    Ok folks I will have my Phoenix C's cabinets completed by Sunday. The next step is finding an inexpensive Digital XO/EQ until I can afford a better one like the the dbxDriverack or Berhinger ULTRA-DRIVE PRO DCX2496.

    The Phoenix C which by the way stands for Cheap, uses two Dayton Audio 8" woofers PE# 295-310 along with a Tang Bang tweeter PE# 264-822 in a MTM arrangement. Everything else is standard Phoenix construction based on original design to be found at http://www.linkwitzlab.com.

    My question is can I use a Behringer Ultra-Curve Pro DSP8024 as the ONLY crossover in the system feeding a separate amplifier? This system is to be actively amplified. Am I correct in assuming that I do not have to build a traditional passive XO to drive the speakers and using only the Behringer Ultra-Curve Pro as a crossover?

    Another note: I would like to tweak the tweeter XO and Mid-range XO'er to get t just right in my room, so have a Digital XO/EQ is wanted, correct?

    Thanks for the input.




    MI-II-CENTS
    ______________
    The TailWind Generation I
  • sfdoddsy
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2000
    • 496

    #2
    Nope, the Ultracurve has no crossover capabilities. You could cludge something together using them but you would need three of them or more.

    Are you doing a full Phoenix or just the main panel, ie 3 way or 2 way?

    If you are doing just the main panel, you could use a Behringer CX2310 crossover, which is under $80. Then you need to find a way to EQ the mids. This may sound odd, but the Behringer MX602A mixer has up to 15dB of EQ available at 80Hz, which is enough. They cost $60, so you would be up for a total of $140.

    I have both units and have being using them like this to test center and surround speakers. It works, but is obviously not ideal.

    If you are looking at doing a full Phoenix system, I don't know of any combination of a 3 way crossover and a four channel parametric EQ which would be appreciably less than a Driverack or a the new Behringer as they are amazingly cheap for what they do.

    Alternatively, www.americanmusical.com offers terms on the dbx Driverack, so you make three payments of $166 monthly.


    Steve




    Steve's DIY Dipoles
    Steve's OB Journey

    Comment

    • intelonetwo
      Member
      • Jan 2003
      • 48

      #3
      Steve,
      Presently I am only doing the main panels. But Next weekend I plan to start/finish the Phoenix matching dipole H-Frame subs using either the Madisound 1252DVC that Link Witz recommends or a Dayton Audio 12" which retails for $25 ea. They are still available from Madisound (at least they are still in the catalog!) for $48. Later this week I will try to post a picture of the design I have drawn out. It features the main Phoenix panels hanging from two "Arms" which are connectted to the H-Frame subs. Checkout http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/primaluce_e.html for a rough idea of what I am talking about. Those Primaluces are nice speakers to.

      So I guess the short answer is Yes I will using a full Phoenix system. The dbxDriverack or Behringer are the olny pieces of equipment I will need, so I guess I must pop for one or the other. I guess now the only question is which one? The Behringer does not have room EQ am I correct? This seems like an asset for a system like the Phoenix. The dbx has all the Behringer does except what features? Furthermore, can you add a room EQ unit to the Behringer later? If so then maybe the Behringer is Ok.

      I will be posting some pictures of the initial panel construction later this week. Then again after the drivers come in and are mounted.

      The amplifier I will be using is just basic amplifier from either Rotel, Harman Kardon, or Elan as these models provide about 45-65 watts per channel x 6 or 8 depending on which one I go with.

      Any thoughts on inexpensive amplification? If I was savvey enough I would explore building and using the Tripath or silimiar digital amplifier chip since they are both inexpensive ( ? ) and efficient.




      MI-II-CENTS
      ______________
      The TailWind Generation I

      Comment

      • sfdoddsy
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2000
        • 496

        #4
        I've not tried out the Behringer and am not even sure it is available yet. The differences seem to be that the Behringer is cheaper and has digital inputs, while the dbx has the room EQ feature.

        I'd pick the dbx, but Iguess I'm biased.

        Steve




        Steve's DIY Dipoles
        Steve's OB Journey

        Comment

        • Dennis H
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Aug 2002
          • 3791

          #5
          The Behringer has 96kHz processing, more flexible signal routing, more flexible parametric/shelving EQs (put them where you need them), and PC control software. The dBx has a 1/3 octave EQ with automatic adjustment using a mic. All nice features. Choose your poison.

          Comment

          • sfdoddsy
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2000
            • 496

            #6
            From playing with the Behringer software, the parametric options are similar. The dbx has a total of seven bands of parametric EQ available as well as the 1/3 octave graphic.

            The Behringer allows more bands of parametric EQ depending on how much processing power is left over from the crossover selection. When I put in the same crossovers as I use with the dbx, I get about the same number of EQ pints available. But it is slightly more flexible in that you could assign them all to the bass if you wanted, I guess.

            Interestingly, the software of the Behringer applies almost exactly to the dbx, so you could play with settings on the Behringer and simply transfer them manually cross to the dbx.

            Well, it was interesting to me.






            Steve's DIY Dipoles
            Steve's OB Journey

            Comment

            • intelonetwo
              Member
              • Jan 2003
              • 48

              #7
              What is the benefit of having digital outputs? Does'nt the Driverack has PC control software?

              Dennis: What do you mean about the parametric/shelving EQ (put them where you need them)?

              So the real benefits as I see them are a bit more signal processing features, digtal output and 96khx processing?




              MI-II-CENTS
              ______________
              The TailWind Generation I

              Comment

              • Ricky
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2000
                • 226

                #8
                Hi Thomas!

                Hope all is well. Glad to see you are building your own speakers, and Steve is right there with you.

                On inexpensive amplification, you can get the brand that Steve uses: Fosgate 4100 60x4 and 4125 75x4 amps that go for $300-400 each. There's a 4125 for sale in this forum now.

                Ricky

                Comment

                • Brian Bunge
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Nov 2001
                  • 1389

                  #9
                  Have any of you guys used the Behringer Super-X PRO CX3400? I need a 3-way stereo unit and was considering this since it's only $129. I'll be using it with a pair of MTM mains atop some ACI SV12 subs and then a new dedicated LFE sub. I'd like to use crossover points of 60Hz and around 120Hz or so.

                  What do you guys think about this unit?

                  Brian

                  Comment

                  • intelonetwo
                    Member
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 48

                    #10
                    Hi Ricky,
                    Whats up man. Long time no hear from you. I know you have been doing the internet thing for awhile now, but we havent crossed paths since our very informative and fun meeting in San Fransico. We should plan a meeting like that again in the near future.

                    Yes I am building my own speakers again, however this time they are not traditional box type speakers, as I do not have the interest, time, ears (tired of blouted, inaccurate sound quality in consumer speakers) and/or money to build a box speaker. The Open-Baffle design allows me to quickly design and manufacture a baffle to mount the speakers, then enjoy them, with the majority of time being spent on designing, testing, revising the speakers.

                    The amplifier that are catching my eye currently are the Harman Kardon PA-2000, which sport 4 channels x 45 watts, for only $269 at http://www.soundcity.com. I need 2 of these amplifiers (8 channels) to amplifiy both Open Baffle Panels and both H-Frame Subwoofers (2 woofers each) in a vertical amplification arrangement. (Please correct me if I mixed up horizontal and vertical amplification).

                    i have no experience with any of the Behringer products. Sorry.




                    MI-II-CENTS
                    ______________
                    The TailWind Generation I

                    Comment

                    • sfdoddsy
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2000
                      • 496

                      #11
                      The Behringer has digital inputs (not outs) so you can keep everything digital. Trouble is you need a prepro with digital outs, ideally for all sources, and only Meridian and Theta have that.

                      Both the Behringer and dbx have parametric EQ that can be applied to any frequency.

                      The Driverack PA doesn't have PC control software.

                      Cheers

                      Steve




                      Steve's DIY Dipoles
                      Steve's OB Journey

                      Comment

                      • intelonetwo
                        Member
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 48

                        #12
                        Just thought I would let everyone know that I just order my Dayton AUdio 12" woofers from Parts Express #295-320. They should work out nicely in an H-Frame or W-Frame arrangement.
                        This weekend I plan to build to the H-Frame woofer to mount the woofers on.

                        Also I ordered the Vifa TC18WG-35-09, 7" midrange PE# 299-239, and Peerless tweeter 811815, PE# 277-408. These coupled to the H-frame woofers should give a nice full range output.

                        The entire project costs just under $250.00 for drivers not including materials and labor.

                        Does anyone have an angle (good price) on the Behringer or dbx unit?




                        MI-II-CENTS
                        ______________
                        The TailWind Generation I

                        Comment

                        • intelonetwo
                          Member
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 48

                          #13
                          Just thought I would let everyone know that I just order my Dayton AUdio 12" woofers from Parts Express #295-320. They should work out nicely in an H-Frame or W-Frame arrangement.
                          This weekend I plan to build to the H-Frame woofer to mount the woofers on.

                          Also I ordered the Vifa TC18WG-35-09, 7" midrange PE# 299-239, and Peerless tweeter 811815, PE# 277-408. These coupled to the H-frame woofers should give a nice full range output.

                          The entire project costs just under $250.00 for drivers not including materials and labor.

                          Does anyone have an angle (good price) on the Behringer or dbx unit?




                          MI-II-CENTS
                          ______________
                          The TailWind Generation I

                          Comment

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