Slow work takes time, lots of time

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15261

    Slow work takes time, lots of time

    For those who have followed certain posts, such as

    One more spin of the M8 box, this picture may be informative- just call me the tortise.

    Click image for larger version

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    Regards,

    Jon




    Earth First!
    _______________________________
    We'll screw up the other planets later....
    Last edited by theSven; 26 August 2023, 10:32 Saturday. Reason: Update image location and remove broken url
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    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....
  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    #2
    Jon, need not tell me about the time of quality work, lol. Sometimes I spend way to much time on a cable, but by gosh, it's gonna be right, or it just ain't gonna be at all, ya know?

    the box is looking good there,
    Lex
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

    Comment

    • Patrick Sun
      Super Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 1380

      #3
      So, Jon, you don't quite subscribe to the "keep drivers as close as possible on the front baffle" theory, eh?




      PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs
      PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15261

        #4
        Hi Pat,


        Well, not exactly- there are a host of issues. In general, I do subscribe to the rule of thumb that the distance between the driver centers shouldn't exceed about 13,560/F-xover. For a 1250 Hz crossover, this is about 10-1/2". This is also a good guideline to use for MTM configurations, regarding distance between the driver centers for the "M"s. Rarely followed. If followed properly, it is possible to make a good MTM lay down center channel.

        Also, not visible from these pictures, there's a rear firing port, who's internal flare is in the area between the woofer and tweeter. The tweeter literally has a subenclosure, made from oak 1X6, because I don't like relying on a plastic tweeter panel for the LF enclosure integrity.

        Then there are issues about locating the drivers re the baffle, and staggering the distances both horizontally and vertically to distribute the tweeter and the midwoofer ripples in resopnse from edge diffraction effects. This usually mandates using some kind of golden mean ratio; BDS has been a good tool to check that out for a given baffle size before finalizing the layout. The cabinets are mirror imaged, and I think they work best with the tweeters towards the outside.

        You can have diffraction from the effects from the woofer if the tweeter is too close to it.

        Here's the same cabinet after some experimentation with optimizing the panel diffraction control to cut down on the HF ripple; the diamond cutout for the tweeter was pretty effective; reduced several peak/dips by 2 dB.


        Click image for larger version

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        The key to sound in many cases is not just the on axis response, (though that's important), the off axis response between 15 and 30 degrees is quite important to the sound field for a wide sweet spot.

        The Vifa XT is a little quirky measuring, but I have to say I like how it sounds; here are the 15 and 30 degree response of the cabinet pictured above, with a gating window for the MLS measurement which limits the LF response to a 200 Hz corner frequency.

        Click image for larger version

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        The system has a very good vertical window (due partly to the steep crossover, plus the low crossover frequency), from -10 degrees to +20 from the design axis (which reflect the expected usage between sitting and standing, and expected stand height).

        Reverse connection (which is actaully positive phase, since this is an 8th order L-R acoustic response) shows pretty much the expected response on the design axis; I can get it steep by moving up slightly...

        Click image for larger version

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        This is version 4 of this project (BJM: "This time for sure!"); I don't think I'm going to tweak this design anymore; I'm pretty happy with how this one sounds (finally!), and I cleaned up some of the construction issues, too.

        Time to move on to something else, maybe something a little weirder!

        Best regards,

        Jon




        Earth First!
        _______________________________
        We'll screw up the other planets later....
        Last edited by theSven; 26 August 2023, 10:34 Saturday. Reason: Update image location
        the AudioWorx
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        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10934

          #5
          Kind if gives a new definition to 'patch work quilt' doesn't it??????

          theAudioWorx

          Klone-Audio
          Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:11 Sunday. Reason: Update text

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 15261

            #6
            It sure does! :LOL:

            I've got one big piece of the felt left right now, and I thought I'd save it for the "finished" cutouts, and use scraps for the "experiemental" stage.

            You ought to see the tweeter L-Pads, too; they're array's of 12.5 ohm resistor in parllel for the input leg, and 15 ohm resistors in parallel for the shunt leg; I can adjust the impedance in small steps by adding or removing another resistor in the parallel set. Of course, it give pretty high power handling, too. But when you have an input leg that's attenuating a bit over half the tweeter power, it should have close to the tweeter power rating, even though duty cycle is low- so that's about 48-60W of resistor continuous power handling.

            The balance is pretty much where I want this set to be; a little more on the analytical tool side (for listening and evaluating to other stuff); not slightly "warm", like the MkII's were in the midrange. There pretty close to the balance of the "bedroom/boundary" mini m8's we did for you, as far as how these sound away from a wall, vs. how the mini-M8's sound and measure on the wall from 60 Hz up.

            For ref, the tweeter zobel is on the back of the tweeter back enclosure, the tweeter crossover in on the back panel just above the binding cup entry, and the woofer crossover is on the bottom of the enclosure.

            -Juan




            Earth First!
            _______________________________
            We'll screw up the other planets later....
            the AudioWorx
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            In Development...
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            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15261

              #7
              Got number two finished today, and some more of the photo work completed. The MkII's have been pressed into temporary duty as stands (oh the ignominy!).

              Stereo is sweet- female voices float in space in a most heavenly way... bottom is solid and well defined... I think these are keepers. :B

              Now where did I last put the Arvo Pärt plans...




              Earth First!
              _______________________________
              We'll screw up the other planets later....
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
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              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
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              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
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              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15261

                #8
                Last update, probably-

                The "final felt" is done, some additional measurements have been made, and it's time to put this one to bed. Or rather, spin a disk on them, and enjoy the "fruits of labor".

                Image not available


                Among the final measurements, the impedance curve. These may not be speakers for some receivers, as through most of the treble, and in the midbass, they're solidly four ohms.

                Click image for larger version

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                But they sound nice on an amp with some current...


                Regards,

                Jon




                Earth First!
                _______________________________
                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:10 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                the AudioWorx
                Natalie P
                M8ta
                Modula Neo DCC
                Modula MT XE
                Modula Xtreme
                Isiris
                Wavecor Ardent

                SMJ
                Minerva Monitor
                Calliope
                Ardent D

                In Development...
                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                Obi-Wan
                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                Modula PWB
                Calliope CC Supreme
                Natalie P Ultra
                Natalie P Supreme
                Janus BP1 Sub


                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • Jack Gilvey
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2001
                  • 510

                  #9
                  Beautiful, Jon. Not very SET-friendly, eh? Now I just need some idiot-proof plans to get started.

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15261

                    #10
                    ThomasW is officially in charge of beta testing "idiot proof plans"...

                    I've been improving in that department, just ask him about the last crossover layout diagrams I did in PowerPoint, using pictures of the crossovers, and overlaying all the component designators, etc!

                    But he put together the set of crossover's for Pete's MkIII's, no glitches or problems- everthing worked as expected.

                    Because I'm writing an article about these, a detailed contruction plan won't be published on the web. But if you're really intereseted in these, just contact either of us by email, and we'll get you setup with the info you need. I'm about a week a way from completing the first draft, and I could mail you a CD to look over- you could even be a beta tester for the article, if you'd like!

                    And I agree- I wouldn't describe these as SET friendly either- both because of the impedance curve (due to the tweeter, nominally 4, but closer to 3 ohms!, and the midwoofer impedance minima for an 8 ohm driver hits close to 4.) With a non loop feedback solid state amp (output Z about 0.2 ohms), they seem well behaved, so with conventional amps and even longish speaker cables, they should be OK.

                    Updated Sunday evening-

                    Cleared a lot of the junk out of my living room, and did a full tilt room "alignment", positioning the speakers for optimum calculated boundary interface, and locating my listening position based on RPG room analysis..... wow! As Jonatha says in the song playing right now, "we will burn the old house down!" Now I remember why I go to all this trouble and effort!

                    Regards,

                    Jon




                    Earth First!
                    _______________________________
                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
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                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • Jack Gilvey
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2001
                      • 510

                      #11
                      Thanks, Jon, I'd love to look over that cd. All that thick felt and the tweeter cutout remind me of my old Spica TC-60s, which had a sort of chevron-shaped hole in the felt around the tweeter.

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 15261

                        #12
                        Hi Jack,

                        Cool, doesn't hurt to have another set of eyes looking at this to refine it a bit. I'll contact you about a mailing address in about a week! Plus the NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) for your lawyer to look over....

                        Regards,

                        Jon




                        Earth First!
                        _______________________________
                        We'll screw up the other planets later....
                        the AudioWorx
                        Natalie P
                        M8ta
                        Modula Neo DCC
                        Modula MT XE
                        Modula Xtreme
                        Isiris
                        Wavecor Ardent

                        SMJ
                        Minerva Monitor
                        Calliope
                        Ardent D

                        In Development...
                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                        Obi-Wan
                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                        Modula PWB
                        Calliope CC Supreme
                        Natalie P Ultra
                        Natalie P Supreme
                        Janus BP1 Sub


                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

                        • gil
                          Junior Member
                          • Dec 2000
                          • 27

                          #13
                          Jon,

                          Nice job!
                          I was actually considering the Scan7 kit from SpeakerCity until I tried the Polk Lsi-9 which I am quite pleased with. Have you had the opportunity to audition the new Polk LSi series and can you comment on the sonic characteristics between your DIY XT25/HiVi 2-way and the Polks? Also, how similar would you venture to guess that the new Rocket 2-way would be to your design?

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15261

                            #14
                            I haven't had a chance to audition the Polk series, though I did see their ads trumpeting the neodynium version of the XT25 tweeter (it's main advantage is that it's sheilded).

                            I just heard about the Rocket series from AV123 a few days ago. The information on the web site isn't very detailed; the most similar would probably be the RS550, which uses two 6-1/2" woofers.

                            The six's go up a little higher before the cone peak, which would make a conventional crossover easier to implment- say, a standard 4th order Linkwitz Riley. However, the total Sd of the two HiVi sixes is about 1/2 of the 8" (which is actually an 8.5"), and the Xmax of the six is 1/2 that of the eight! (major drawback) Add that to the fact that the six only costs about 10% less than the eight, and it wasn't an attractive proposition, from a "value engineering" perspective. I use an elliptic filter in the crossover which realizes an 8th order L-R acoustic transfer function for the first 50 dB of attenuation; (crossover is at 1.25 kHz) it has a fairly large vertical window, and great off axis response laterally- you'd never believe this is an 8" two way. Since the midwoofer is down about 50 dB at the resonant peak, it's not a factor in the performance. Enclosure Fs at 32 Hz, somewhat overdamped, makes for very nice, deep, clean in room response with music.

                            I'm designing an MTM version of this for a couple of friends who want basically the same thing in a floor standing tower with even higher SPL and LF output. But my next personal project is the dipole speaker using these in an MTM for the range above about 225 Hz, and dual 11's as dipole woofers below that.

                            Regards,

                            Jon




                            Earth First!
                            _______________________________
                            We'll screw up the other planets later....
                            the AudioWorx
                            Natalie P
                            M8ta
                            Modula Neo DCC
                            Modula MT XE
                            Modula Xtreme
                            Isiris
                            Wavecor Ardent

                            SMJ
                            Minerva Monitor
                            Calliope
                            Ardent D

                            In Development...
                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                            Obi-Wan
                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                            Modula PWB
                            Calliope CC Supreme
                            Natalie P Ultra
                            Natalie P Supreme
                            Janus BP1 Sub


                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • Jack Gilvey
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2001
                              • 510

                              #15
                              Cool, doesn't hurt to have another set of eyes looking at this to refine it a bit. I'll contact you about a mailing address in about a week! Plus the NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) for your lawyer to look over....
                              Sounds like a plan. I did chuckle a bit at the thought of these eyes refining your work. As if.

                              Comment

                              • Mark K
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2002
                                • 388

                                #16
                                Looks great Jon,

                                I'm looking forward to seeing the review in Audioxpress. Curious to see your xover design as well. I am impressed if you've mastered the low end of the xt25.

                                Out of curiosity, have you tested the neo version of the xt25? The specs don't look quite the same.


                                mark k.
                                www.audioheuristics.org

                                Comment

                                • JonMarsh
                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 15261

                                  #17
                                  Hi Mark!

                                  No, I haven't tested the neo version yet, though given some requests I've had for a "baby" sheilded speaker (think M8n shielded driver), I should get around to that soon. I'd better get a pair on order!

                                  Regards,

                                  Jon




                                  Earth First!
                                  _______________________________
                                  We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                  the AudioWorx
                                  Natalie P
                                  M8ta
                                  Modula Neo DCC
                                  Modula MT XE
                                  Modula Xtreme
                                  Isiris
                                  Wavecor Ardent

                                  SMJ
                                  Minerva Monitor
                                  Calliope
                                  Ardent D

                                  In Development...
                                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                  Obi-Wan
                                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                  Modula PWB
                                  Calliope CC Supreme
                                  Natalie P Ultra
                                  Natalie P Supreme
                                  Janus BP1 Sub


                                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                  Comment

                                  • Andrew Pratt
                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 16507

                                    #18
                                    I think I'm going to build a set of book shelf's for my second zone some time this fall. These are about the right sized for that I was thinking...any ball park idea on cost to build?
                                    Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:12 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image and update text

                                    Comment

                                    • JonMarsh
                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 15261

                                      #19
                                      ThomasW figured out that the total cost including purchased cabinet shells was around $600-700; I've never checked that, I like blissful ignorance! (I've built four versions of this speaker in the last 8 months...)

                                      The woofers and tweeters are available from PE, the tweeters are also available from Madisound. Woofers are about $100 ea, tweeters about $55 ea. Figure a skosh over $300.

                                      The woodstyle cabinet shell is available from Madisound. If you roll your own cabinets from scratch, subtract about $200. There's also a bit of 1X6 oak, and some 1X3 in the internal reinforcement- sourced from Home Despot. I use epoxy for all gluing, which is expensive, but I get it from Walmart, who's about 60% of the price of a typical hardware store.

                                      Crossover and internal wiring- I used GE polypropylene caps, Solen caps, and either home wound inductors or Solen inductors. Not a trivial expense- biggun's are about $10 each to buy, about half that to wind (I have a coil winder stashed in Tom's basement)

                                      I also replaced the binding post on the DB cups with vampire solid brass gold plated posts, and used Cardas 13 AWG and 15 AWG wiring internally- remember, I was shooting for a bookshelf to compete with Avalon Eclipses- which go for about $9K a pair new. Theses suckers, BTW, are HEAVY! I've got to get a new scale, but I'm pretty sure they're close to the same as my Palladium amps, which are 70 lb each....

                                      BTW, the version shown here does NOT go on a bookshelf- with it's 32 Hz over damped ported LF alignment, it's optimized for room placement out from the walls, typical being about 2 meter from rear wall, 1.3 from side wall, and woofer about 0.8 meter from floor. This produced great imaging and smooth, deep in room bass response. We've also done a smaller version sealed, with a Q of about 0.5 to 0.57; that works better closer to the walls. If a small sealed alignment is used, and a sub is planned, it can be put right on the wall, but with changes in the crossover with regards to baffle step compensation.

                                      If you're seriously interested in building these Andrew, drop me an email.

                                      Regards,

                                      Jon




                                      Earth First!
                                      _______________________________
                                      We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                      the AudioWorx
                                      Natalie P
                                      M8ta
                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                      Modula MT XE
                                      Modula Xtreme
                                      Isiris
                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                      SMJ
                                      Minerva Monitor
                                      Calliope
                                      Ardent D

                                      In Development...
                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                      Obi-Wan
                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                      Modula PWB
                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                      Comment

                                      • Andrew Pratt
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 16507

                                        #20
                                        Jon trust me when the times right you'll hear from me I will likely start with a more simple and affordable set for upstairs then use the skills I learned there to build more for the HT room...at least that's the plan so far.
                                        Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:12 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                        Comment

                                        • Andrew Pratt
                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Aug 2000
                                          • 16507

                                          #21
                                          Step one is complete...I've purchased and started cutting the wood for the box's Now when are those woofers going to be in stock...
                                          Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:12 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                          Comment

                                          • JonMarsh
                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 15261

                                            #22
                                            Waiting for goodies to arrive is like being a kid waiting for Xmas....


                                            :LOL:

                                            -Jon




                                            Earth First!
                                            _______________________________
                                            We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                            the AudioWorx
                                            Natalie P
                                            M8ta
                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                            Modula MT XE
                                            Modula Xtreme
                                            Isiris
                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                            SMJ
                                            Minerva Monitor
                                            Calliope
                                            Ardent D

                                            In Development...
                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                            Obi-Wan
                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                            Modula PWB
                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                            Comment

                                            • Andrew Pratt
                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                              • Aug 2000
                                              • 16507

                                              #23
                                              well at least in this case I have some nice box's to play with
                                              Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:12 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                              Comment

                                              • JonMarsh
                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 15261

                                                #24
                                                A few folks have wondered how I have these setup, given my recommendations for room/boundary positioning-

                                                I can summarize roughly with some ratios from the three nearest boundaries- floor, side wall, rear wall- you can pick the distances you prefer for each one, and if necessary grow them slightly in proportion:

                                                0.75 M floor
                                                1.21 M side wall
                                                1.96 M rear wall


                                                Here's a pic of mine setup on their stands:


                                                Click image for larger version

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                                                Not recommended around big pets or small people! These are Studio Tech SC24 stands, and are quite solid; they're very heavy *before* you fill the four supporting columns... actually, the bases are more stable than they probably look in the picture, due to the camera angle.

                                                Regards,

                                                Jon




                                                Earth First!
                                                _______________________________
                                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:13 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
                                                the AudioWorx
                                                Natalie P
                                                M8ta
                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                Modula MT XE
                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                Isiris
                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                SMJ
                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                Calliope
                                                Ardent D

                                                In Development...
                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                Obi-Wan
                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                Modula PWB
                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                Comment

                                                • Andrew Pratt
                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 16507

                                                  #25
                                                  Jon I have mine sitting on my subs so that puts the base of the M8a at 31". The box's themselves are 5 feet from the back wall and 3 feet from side walls....does this seem right? I tried to place them as close to the Cardas formula as I could given room placement parameters. I can't move them in from the side wall much more since they have to flank the TV. Though the TV is recessed almost a foot front the front plane of the M8a's to try and limit the effect it has on soundstage. On that note since the tweeters are off set would you suggest i place them closer or father away from the side walls?
                                                  Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:14 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                                  Comment

                                                  • JonMarsh
                                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 15261

                                                    #26
                                                    Hi Andrew,

                                                    I run the tweeters towards the outside; this gives the flattest response on the low end of the tweeter range toward the inside, which is better, considering there will be more listeners towards that direction than towards the wall!

                                                    Your overall setup sounds fine- I wouldn't worry about getting them quite out to the dimensions I cite because you're not using them full range, but with a sub. BTW, what's your crossover point?

                                                    Mine (with ports) are running full range, hence the setup I describe.

                                                    Happy listening!

                                                    BTW, I just got the Norah Jones CD, been meaning to do this for a while- it's a nice late evening kind of piece.

                                                    Best regards,

                                                    Jon




                                                    Earth First!
                                                    _______________________________
                                                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                    the AudioWorx
                                                    Natalie P
                                                    M8ta
                                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                                    Modula MT XE
                                                    Modula Xtreme
                                                    Isiris
                                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                                    SMJ
                                                    Minerva Monitor
                                                    Calliope
                                                    Ardent D

                                                    In Development...
                                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                    Obi-Wan
                                                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                    Modula PWB
                                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Andrew Pratt
                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 16507

                                                      #27
                                                      Mine are sealed so they're crossed over at 80 for now.
                                                      Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:14 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Dennis H
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                        • 3791

                                                        #28
                                                        Just a FWIW, the golden mean (.618 ) is very close to 5/8 (.625). I find the math for 5/8 easier to do in my head when I'm using a tape measure and grunting 200 pound boxes around. :LOL:

                                                        Comment

                                                        • JonMarsh
                                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 15261

                                                          #29
                                                          Yeah,

                                                          Myself, I can't hardly think at all when grunting 200 lb boxes around! And with the pulled muscle in my right buttock, moving one of the X1 bass bin's last weekend was nearly impossible! (they check in at about 200 lb). :roll:

                                                          Fortunately completed M8's are only a svelte 72 lb or so! :LOL:

                                                          Good tip though, Dennis!

                                                          -Jon




                                                          Earth First!
                                                          _______________________________
                                                          We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                          the AudioWorx
                                                          Natalie P
                                                          M8ta
                                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                                          Modula MT XE
                                                          Modula Xtreme
                                                          Isiris
                                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                                          SMJ
                                                          Minerva Monitor
                                                          Calliope
                                                          Ardent D

                                                          In Development...
                                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                          Obi-Wan
                                                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                          Modula PWB
                                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Andrew Pratt
                                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 16507

                                                            #30
                                                            I'm not sure what my M8a's weigh in at fully dressed but they're 75lbs if not a little more....problem is the sub's they sit on are 220 liter monsters that are built the same way the M8a's are...all I know is they're a b!tch to move...doesn't help they're spiked as well :?
                                                            Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:14 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link

                                                            Comment

                                                            • JonMarsh
                                                              Mad Max Moderator
                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                              • 15261

                                                              #31
                                                              Got another call from the AudioXpress folks today- they need me to tweak up a few figures that need to be printed in black and white- and they need it soon, because the three part article is going to roll out in the September issue of AudioXpress.

                                                              arty:


                                                              Regards,

                                                              Jon :B




                                                              Earth First!
                                                              _______________________________
                                                              We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                              the AudioWorx
                                                              Natalie P
                                                              M8ta
                                                              Modula Neo DCC
                                                              Modula MT XE
                                                              Modula Xtreme
                                                              Isiris
                                                              Wavecor Ardent

                                                              SMJ
                                                              Minerva Monitor
                                                              Calliope
                                                              Ardent D

                                                              In Development...
                                                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                              Obi-Wan
                                                              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                              Modula PWB
                                                              Calliope CC Supreme
                                                              Natalie P Ultra
                                                              Natalie P Supreme
                                                              Janus BP1 Sub


                                                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Eduardo
                                                                Moderator emeritus
                                                                • Jun 2002
                                                                • 1258

                                                                #32
                                                                congratulations Jon. :dothewave:

                                                                I can't wait till I can read the article.




                                                                http://home.nc.rr.com/ejimenez

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Lex
                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                  • 27461

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Jon, those stands remind me of my extrema stands a bit, structurally. now, what I want to know, is what is that peeking out from behind it? Looks like an ayre amp to me! :bluezoned:

                                                                  Lex
                                                                  Doug
                                                                  "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • JonMarsh
                                                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                    • 15261

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Looks like an ayre amp to me!
                                                                    But of course, Lex! You weren't expecting, umm, maybe, a SET? :E Or a Crown K2? :banana:

                                                                    Though I think I might like a K2 for my HE15 sub, my Aragon Palladiums make great sub amps... 600W at 8 ohms, 1 kW at 4. But they don't have the grace or refinement I crave in the upper mids and highs...

                                                                    ~Jon




                                                                    Earth First!
                                                                    _______________________________
                                                                    We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                                    the AudioWorx
                                                                    Natalie P
                                                                    M8ta
                                                                    Modula Neo DCC
                                                                    Modula MT XE
                                                                    Modula Xtreme
                                                                    Isiris
                                                                    Wavecor Ardent

                                                                    SMJ
                                                                    Minerva Monitor
                                                                    Calliope
                                                                    Ardent D

                                                                    In Development...
                                                                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                    Obi-Wan
                                                                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                    Modula PWB
                                                                    Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                    Natalie P Ultra
                                                                    Natalie P Supreme
                                                                    Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Lex
                                                                      Moderator Emeritus
                                                                      • Apr 2001
                                                                      • 27461

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Nice amp Jon, I didn't know you had gotten that! I knew you lusted after it, but didn't know it came true.

                                                                      Congrats if that's the case!

                                                                      Lex
                                                                      Doug
                                                                      "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Lex
                                                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                                                        • Apr 2001
                                                                        • 27461

                                                                        #36
                                                                        and Flip to a new page!

                                                                        Lex
                                                                        Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:15 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken image link
                                                                        Doug
                                                                        "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Hank
                                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                          • 1345

                                                                          #37
                                                                          And your point is?...

                                                                          What is that monster looking power amp thing in your sig? No doubt one of those Golden Ears esoteric, outrageously-priced monsters...

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • JonMarsh
                                                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                                            • 15261

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Hi Lex,

                                                                            You must have missed this post in 2001, or others since then, discussing comparisons, etc.

                                                                            Link not available

                                                                            My V5 is two years old, but doesn't mean I don't love it any less. I wouldn't be talking up something I'm not extensively familiar with. You may notice it was even in my No. Cal. DIY speaker meet report, because I took it there for the demo's.



                                                                            Click image for larger version

Name:	V-5_Front2_S.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	94.8 KB
ID:	948579


                                                                            The M8's pictured at the beginning of this post are in my bedroom HT, now, used with a Sony receiver :W and HTPC plus my NEC XM29 presentation monitor (Toshiba Microfilter picture tube). They cast a deeper, wider soundfield than the WMTMW three ways they replace, which used Scanspeak kevlar woofers, MB dome mids, and MB tweeters. Dark Angel and Buffy never sounded so good!


                                                                            Regards,

                                                                            Jon




                                                                            Earth First!
                                                                            _______________________________
                                                                            We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                                            Last edited by theSven; 27 August 2023, 09:16 Sunday. Reason: Remove broken link and udpate image location
                                                                            the AudioWorx
                                                                            Natalie P
                                                                            M8ta
                                                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                                                            Modula MT XE
                                                                            Modula Xtreme
                                                                            Isiris
                                                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                                                            SMJ
                                                                            Minerva Monitor
                                                                            Calliope
                                                                            Ardent D

                                                                            In Development...
                                                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                            Obi-Wan
                                                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                            Modula PWB
                                                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Lex
                                                                              Moderator Emeritus
                                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                                              • 27461

                                                                              #39
                                                                              I guess I mis-read before, I thought the Ayre V5 was what you wanted, maybe you were talking about the newer model.

                                                                              Hank pretty much as usual, I have no point, lol. I just thought Jon had added this without even saying a word.

                                                                              My feature gif is a Mark Levinson 336. Just a little 2 channel amp. Thanks for noticing.

                                                                              Lex
                                                                              Doug
                                                                              "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • JonMarsh
                                                                                Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                • Aug 2000
                                                                                • 15261

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Actually, at this time, my Ayre is boxed up to be sent back to the factory for an update! So it will be a newer model pretty soon.... 8)

                                                                                ~Jon




                                                                                Earth First!
                                                                                _______________________________
                                                                                We'll screw up the other planets later....
                                                                                the AudioWorx
                                                                                Natalie P
                                                                                M8ta
                                                                                Modula Neo DCC
                                                                                Modula MT XE
                                                                                Modula Xtreme
                                                                                Isiris
                                                                                Wavecor Ardent

                                                                                SMJ
                                                                                Minerva Monitor
                                                                                Calliope
                                                                                Ardent D

                                                                                In Development...
                                                                                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                                Obi-Wan
                                                                                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                                Modula PWB
                                                                                Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                                Natalie P Ultra
                                                                                Natalie P Supreme
                                                                                Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Lex
                                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                                                  • 27461

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Cool Jon! I can't wait to hear your response on the upgrade.

                                                                                  Lex
                                                                                  Doug
                                                                                  "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                                                                                  Comment

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