Comparing the new 18" drivers, the Adire Maelstrom and the BluePrint 1803

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  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    Comparing the new 18" drivers, the Adire Maelstrom and the BluePrint 1803

    Several people indicated interest in the new 18" driver designs, the Maelstrom from AdireAudio, and the Blueprint 1803 driver. So I thought it might be interesting to have a thread dedicated to how these driver compare/contrast, and might be used in different configurations.

    AdireAudio-Maelstrom



    Here are the T/S Parameters

    Re 3.4 ohms
    Le 3.5 mH
    Qms 19.11
    Mms 245 grams
    Qes 0.29
    Cms 0.24 mm/N
    Qts 0.28
    Rms 1.76 N*s/m
    Fs 20 Hz
    Sd 1180 cm^2
    Vas 460 liters
    BL 19.8
    Xmax 13.0 mm one way
    EBP 69
    SPL 92.9 dB @ 1W/1m
    No 1.22%
    Pmax 550W per voice coil; 1000W total to the driver
    Distortion <3%, 16 Hz - 200 Hz, @ 105 dB SPL

    BluePrint-1803



    Here are the published T/S parameters:

    Fs = 25.0 Hz
    Re = 3.6 Ohms
    Qms = 7.22
    Qes = 0.38
    Qts = 0.35
    Cms = 130.0 uM/N
    Mms = 300.0 grams
    Sd = 1217.0 cmsq
    Vas = 279.4 liters
    SPL = 92.1 dB
    X-max = 45mm p-p
    Power = 1000+ watts




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson
  • James W. Johnson
    Member
    • Jun 2001
    • 68

    #2
    Here is my take on the two drivers...

    The Blueprint driver has a smaller vas, more xmas, will probably be more attractive, but being a SVC it is limited in wiring configurations
    for anyone building a multiple driver sub this is a huge drawback.
    Anyone know of a good amp stable down to .66ohms ?

    For that matter down to 1.33ohms? .....

    We are even pushing it with two drivers
    which would be a 2 ohm load not including the dips that will probably go under 1 ohm anyways...


    Being that I like multiple driver subs I would be forced to purchase more amplifers to run a 4-6 driver subwoofer using the BP driver.

    On the other hand I could build a Maelstrom subwoofer and have several more wiring options
    but I do not think it is worth $225 when compared to the Tempest driver.
    The BP is well worth $225 (pre-order price) but it is very hadicapped being an SVC.
    pics

    Comment

    • James W. Johnson
      Member
      • Jun 2001
      • 68

      #3
      I should add...
      Based on my experience with the Tempest drivers IN MY OPINION the min. power needed for ea driver is 500watts, so I would not bother using the BP1803 unless I had a good 1000watts for ea driver, the Maelstrom has less x-mas so I would think the min. to be around 500-600 watts per driver .
      pics

      Comment

      • James W. Johnson
        Member
        • Jun 2001
        • 68

        #4
        Now that I have that out of the way.....

        A single BP1803 in 10cuft tuned low with a little EQing down low and a nice 1000-1500 watts would make a sweet HT subwoofer IMO, and probably would take alot to bottom out.
        The only reason I can think of to use the 1803 is if you need a sub that will not bottom out for the most demanding low end bass material, for most applications this driver is not necessary a Tempest or two are all that one needs.
        If you mostly listen to music then you would be wasting your money on this driver(unless you are into organ music or something)

        Now for me I have something like this in mind....
        First i'd want 3 amps capable of putting out 1500 watts a side @4 ohms
        I'd stuff 6 drivers in a 40cuft box and tune it low then I would EQ the living hell out of the low end to use every last drop of xmas these driver have.
        pics

        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10934

          #5
          James

          A couple of things

          1)Xmax of the Maelstrom 13mm is a true one-way measurement. The 1803 is showing peak-peak measurements, that isn't a true Xmax rating. They should either state a one way measured Xmax, or a peak to peak, they are different things. Here's a copy of an email were Pat from BluePrint talks about Xmax. They're using a formula not a measured distance.

          "Xmax is xmax. We define it similarly to Dumax, being the limit of 71% of the rest of the BL value. Easy enough to find for most drivers being the (VC windheight - gap height)/2. But this is true for short gap underhung geometries. Even given that definition, a 50mm windheight and an 8mm top plate probably won't yield 21 mm of Xmax... itll depend on the motor and other factors. For long gaps (16mm or more) the formula isn't so cut and dry. Given a 32mm top plate and a 32mm windheight, you would expect to have no Xmax (even hung) while measurements show that you have about 12-16mm of Xmax. So what gives? Well lots of things, but to cut my ever lengthening story short, the windheight is right at 52mm, yielding 22mm of Xmax."

          It might be a good idea to compare the DUXMAX values of the 1503 Xmax, to the posted ones to get a idea of how the 1803 compares.

          2)You're right regarding the single VC in the 1803. It would be better in your situation to go with either 4 or 8 1803's. Trust me when I say that 4 would shake down the walls of any house.

          3)The 1803 has an Fs of 25Hz, the Maelstrom has an Fs of 20Hz. This IMO is a significant difference. You could tune a ported box low with either but the best very LFE response will be from the Maelstrom.

          4)Have you run any software models with the 6 driver 40cu ft box? If so what tuning are you using. Also you must use a multiple ports 12" or so in diameter or you're going to have port compression. Also remember it's not possible to use EQ successfully much below the port tuning because the ports and the drivers start running out of phase.

          Understand I'm not choosing one driver over the other; just pointing out the differences, and how they will effect the design/performance.




          theAudioWorx
          Klone-Audio

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • James W. Johnson
            Member
            • Jun 2001
            • 68

            #6
            Hi Thomas,


            1)Xmax of the Maelstrom 13mm is a true measurement. The 1803 is showing peak-peak measurements, that isn't a true Xmax rating. They should either state a one way Xmax, or a peak to peak, they are different things. I'd guess the real Xmax is lower than 1/2 the p-p rating. Perhaps someone should email Pat at BluePrint and ask him to clarify this.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            If the BP driver is not 22.5mm xmas ea. way then I would not be interested in the driver at all.
            I know BP will at least post the Dumaxed xmas , and if you e-mail them with a request they will still give you the discount after the specs are up.

            2)You're right regarding the single VC in the 1803. It would be better in your situation to go with either 4 or 8 1803's. Trust me when I say that 4 would shake down the walls of any house.
            >>>>>>>>
            4 drivers would give you a 1ohm load and 8 would be .5ohms.
            I am well beyond wanting my walls shook, I want a
            subwoofer laxative.

            4)Have you run any software models with the 6 driver 40cu ft box? If so what tuning are you using. Also you must use a multiple ports 12" or so in diameter or you're going to have port compression. Also remember it's not possible to use EQ successfully much below the port tuning because the ports and the drivers start running out of phase.
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>.
            Porting such a large box with very low tuning
            would be messy but it could be done, I would use square porting but honestly I am just brainstorming a little bit...it probably won't happen , I would be better off building 2 or 3 subs.
            Basically I am back on the subwoofer thing because
            I sold the Big Pig (and made a decent profit )
            , I finally found out exactly how much it weighed because the buyer took it to a weighing station. No wonder this sub was such a bastard to move around , I was way off on the weight, I thought it was around 300lbs , it actually weighs 475lbs, anyways it was a bastard to build and I don't think I am up to the task again plus to do it right I am sure a 6 1803 driver sub would have to weigh a minimum of 1000lbs.
            pics

            Comment

            • James W. Johnson
              Member
              • Jun 2001
              • 68

              #7
              Hi Thomas, I missed your response in the other thread.....

              As far as your new sub, I certainly suggest building 6 individual boxes and stack them. A single box big enough for 6-18" would require access to a forklift!
              >>>>>>>
              I agree , not 6 enclosures but maybe 2 or 3.




              Also remember that the Fs of the BluePrint drivers are higher than things like Tempests. So if you want good LOW bass(meaning subsonic frequencies), you might want to consider using a sealed box design. That way it's possible to use EQ to boost the LFE and not run into issues with the driver and port being out of phase.
              >>>>>>>>>>>
              Now a sealed box is starting to sound very appealing, I could get the box(s) size down quite abit too.

              How loud would 6 or 8 of these drivers go in a sealed box(s)?
              What all do I need and what do I have to do to get MEGA low end output?
              pics

              Comment

              • Jack Gilvey
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2001
                • 510

                #8
                James,I've run the 1803 through a few of the Linkwitz transform spreadsheets, and the sealed box potential is endless. In such a box, with eq and enough power, the higher Fs of the driver does not come into play , it's just the Vd and power handling of the driver that determine its potential.

                As far as vented, my favorite so far is an EBS (?), 12ft.^3 tuned to 18Hz. Again, with enough eq and porting, the prodigious specs of the driver would allow you to boost to flat almost any rolloff resulting from tuning even lower, like 16Hz. As has been mentioned, port lengths begin to become an issue.

                Comment

                • ThomasW
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 10934

                  #9
                  Jack

                  It's not a good idea to try and boost the bass below the box tuning for ported subs. Why? Because below the tuning, the driver and the port slowly start working out of phase. So if EQ is applied, it increases the out of phase interaction.




                  theAudioWorx
                  Klone-Audio

                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                  Comment

                  • Jack Gilvey
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2001
                    • 510

                    #10
                    Yeah, what I was referring to is tuning rather low, like 16Hz, than applying boost to flatten it, like Hsu research does. Definitely don't want to boost a vented below Fb, where it's essentially unloaded.

                    Comment

                    • Jack Gilvey
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2001
                      • 510

                      #11
                      The Dumax results for the 1503 are in...

                      http://www.blueprintdrivers.com/news.html

                      Since it's the same motor, even if it loses a bit the 1803 looks to have over 6 liters of P-P Vd.

                      Comment

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