DIY kits...for mains...any recomendations?

[Pat]

After looking at all the links ThomasW posted for kits...I honstly don't know how to choose a kit.

Currently the mains I have are kind of frankenstiens. The only things that are original are the woofer and the enclosure, everything else has been replaced. Even the enclosure has been stiffend up a bit

The tweeters are Vifa D25SF-04 and the mids are a generic fiberglass mid from Parts Express or MCM Electronics, I can't remember which. Crossover parts were ordered from North Creek (Solen caps and air core inductors).

I actually don't mind how they sound...but can't help but think I can do better.

I keep telling myself that I will never buy a commercial speaker again...but I am thinking about just breaking down and buying some Dunlavy SC-I's.

Anyway sorry to ramble on...How can I figure out what I should build? Keep in mind this project is probably a good 6 months to a year away (I like to do lots of research:B).

Thanks




Pat's Page

[ThomasW]

Hi Pat

Hey how about a little help

What's the approx. budget?
What size cabinets.
Do you want di/bipolar?
Are you going to build the cabinet, or do you want something preassembled?

Just some ballpark info will go along way toward targeting a appropriate design.

We can SMOKE the Dunlavy design for a fraction of his price :B




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Pat]

We can SMOKE the Dunlavy design for a fraction of his price:B

Thomas...somehow I knew you were going to say something like that:B

What's the approx. budget?...let's say $3-500 per speaker...I don't have to build all 5 at once
What size cabinets?...Not Whisper size:B...um...let's say 1-2.5 cu.ft. (I have a capable sub, so they don't have to be full range)
Do you want di/bipolar?...No
Are you going to build the cabinet, or do you want something preassembled?...I can build the cabinet as long as it is not too intricate




Pat's Page

[ThomasW]

How about a monopolar ribbon? Something like these.

http://www.vmpsaudio.com/

Checkout the "monitor series"

BTW, we can scratch build them for less than the cost of the VMPS kits. I know where to get the ribbons at discount

Or does something a little more exotic interest you :B

http://www.bgcorp.com/products.html#FLOOR

Click on the "420" link. Now what you will see are diploes, but they can be build monopolar! Would they cost $1500ea? Not on your life!!!!




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Pat]

I am not opposed to a ribbon...but I don't think I have ever heard one.

Of all the kits you listed this one appealed to me the most. The price of the tweeter scared me off.




Pat's Page

[ThomasW]

The Ravens are a true "ribbon" tweeter. And reports are that they do indeed sound wonderful. A little fragile though.....

The B&G ribbons are more "stout". They are a magnetic-planar ribbon(not a true ribbon). We can get the 22" long one for the same price as the Raven #1.

The B&G RD-22c goes down to 150Hz. So a single 6.5" or 8" woofer as a filler driver to link up with the sub will do the job.

Just something for you to ponder :B

FIY, ribbons sound much like planar speakers. Tight, fast, with an "ease", not available from dones/cones.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Pat]

Sounds interesting

How would a 22" tall tweeter integrate as a center channel? I have a 50" RPTV, and currenly the center is on top of the tv angled down.
I am envisioning a 28"-35" tall speaker standing upright on top the the tv:?

What woofer would we be looking at?
Focal, Scan-Speak...???
My current center uses a 6.5 Vifa...




Pat's Page

[Bing Fung]

Thomas, I would follow you to HI-FI hell so long as you keep exposing and feeding me these awsome speaker designs. It's like I have been shown how to see.




Bing

[Pat]

Bing, I think you better get in line behind Joey and ME :B




Pat's Page

[Bing Fung]

Pat... I'm right behind you guys, pulling speaker cords LOL




Bing

[KennyG]

For the very top, it's hard to beat a good ribbon. They have a crystal clear finesse about them that's very sweet.

[ThomasW]

Pat

The 22" is a wide range driver not simply a tweeter like the Raven.

The frequency response on the "small" B&G ribbon is 150Hz-18.5Khz. So it's both a midrange that goes pretty low, and a tweeter. If you think you'll need something above 18.5Khz. We can find a leaf supertweeter for a reasonable price. I'd check though many people, myself included can't hear that high.

If you want to "self-test" download the tone generator program that's in the first post in the "DIY resource thread". Start at 10Khz and go up, see what the upper limit of your hearing is.

I can't "post" the price on the B&G ribbons. So I'll send you info via email in the morning.

You can choose any woofer you want. I recommend one of the ScanSpeak drivers. They seem to have a little more punch, than the Etons. I haven't used any Focal woofers.

For a center channel, you lay it on its side. Go back to the B&G link and look at the "220" speaker. That's their center channel. We can copy it.

Bing

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. Welcome to the dark side! :B

Yes, I'll send you the B&G info as well




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Andrew Pratt]

Pat there's always the easy way out...buy a pair of the Magnepan MMG's for $500 with the 60 day trial period and upgrade plan Thanks Thomas for pointing me to these. I've only had them two days but so far they are fantastic.

[Pat]

Ok...so if we use the 22" B&G horizontally as a center, do we need a 6.5 driver on each end?

If that is the configuration then should it be identical for the L&R?...I am thinking yes...

Something like the R30 in-wall, minus the dome tweeter.




Pat's Page

[Pat]

Sure Andrew, now that I am thinking about DIY you have to throw the Maggies into the mix:?

Can you describe the difference in sound between your Energy's and the MMG's...I know it's difficult but please try




Pat's Page

[Bing Fung]

Thanks Thomas! When you say ribbons can be fragile.. In what way? Do they not tolerate over driving, or amp clipping?




Bing

[ThomasW]

Pat

No need for a woofer top and bottom. The main reason for MTM design is to have the drivers acoustically "couple". 22" is too far apart for this to occur.

I'd just make a mirror image pair. Ribbon on one side of the cabinet, woofer either under it if height isn't a problem or beside it if you want to keep the cabinet short.

There is no reason to use a dome tweeter with these. A leaf supertweeter is the way to go for the "mains". I wouldn't worry about HFE for the "effects" speakers.

Yes the "in-wall" mounting of the rears is a interesting option.

I'll send you a link to a personal site where someone is using a 7.1 (I think) setup with these drivers.
It will be send out later today. This in the only post I have time for this AM

Bing

"True" ribbons like the Raven, or Decca, are true tweeter. They aren't tolerant of any low frequency info. So they need steep XO slopes. Also they won't tolerate ANY amp clipping. They have replacement ribbons available they are about $25ea. The Magne-planar ribbons like the B&G are much more tolerant of LFE. They are in essence a tweeter, midrange, and semi-midwoofer, all in one.

TO ALL

The MMG's are the "Buy of the Century" @$500/pr. Nothing comes even close. But you need to understand they are more critical of room placement than a "box" speaker.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Andrew Pratt]

Pat "you got mail"

[Pat]

Thanks Andrew!




Pat's Page

[Andrew Pratt]

So pat have to managed to hear Maggies yet? Decided what you're going to do?

[Pat]

Nope...had to work last weekend...doesn't look good for this weekend either.

I really want to hear the maggies and something with a planar ribbon before I decide. I think I can get both of those done in Des Moines...I just have to find time to get there.




Pat's Page

[Pat]

Thomas or anyone...
Opinions on Newform Research?




Pat's Page

[ThomasW]

Hi

John Meyer's products get good reviews. I've never heard any.

They are a little pricy, $1040 for just the 45" ribbons. All are monopole only. 3db more efficient than the B&G models. The 30" ribbons cost as much as the B&G 50" "deals".

These tend to be tall, the 30" ribbon model (too short a sweet spot I think), is 61" tall. The 45" ribbon one is 75" tall. Depending on the distance from the listener, these speakers actually may need to be angled down for best results.

The actual layout of the speakers (ribbon stacked on top of box), seems to me, too prone to the ribbon getting accidentally damaged.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio