Can I Use My Amp Bridged?

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  • Bing Fung
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 6521

    Can I Use My Amp Bridged?

    Hello all, I have a Luxman M02 Power amp that is rated to 150W per channel @ 8ohms. It is bridgable to 320W mono @8 ohms.

    The amp is not rated for 4 ohm operation though I have driven 4 ohm speakers with it, no problems.

    My sub driver is an Infinity Kappa 4 ohms, I wanted to use the Luxman bridged to drive the Kappa sub, but have been told that the amp may not be able to handle the current draw of the 4 ohm speaker in bridged mode. This is due to the fact that the Amp will actually be asked to perform as if it was a 2 ohm load in BTL Bridged mode.

    I was told that with both channels driving a 4 ohm load that it reduces the the resistance further of each channel, creating this 2 ohm situation.

    Can I use this amp?




    Bing
    Bing
  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    Can you find the impedance "curve" of the driver? If so, it will make this question somewhat easier to answer. Remember the speaker's impedence will vary with frequency, it's not really "fixed". So if the "curve" has some big dips, then it may be too much for the amp, especially if it's being driven hard.

    I'd recommend not bridging until you have specific data on the driver. I'd also suggest that you contact Luxman and see what they say.

    This is the only real problem with using SVC woofers and stereo amps.




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • Bing Fung
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 6521

      #3
      Hi Thomas, I do not have Impedance curves for the Kappa but have asked Infinity if they are available via e-mail. Hope they get back to me.

      I went to the Luxman site and it is under renovations. It stated that they cannot field most requests until the new site is up...

      This all may be moot point at this time for I just did a quick test to see if I could live with out the Lux Bi-amping my mains... I cannot! It's amazing how much more punch my system has with the Denon driving the tweeters and the Lux driving the Mids and Bass. Either that or I like the sound of the Luxman more than the Denon. On top of that I just sold my Energy sub so I'm free to purchase a power amplifier.

      Have you any recommendations that I should look at in the$300 range?

      What are your thoughts on the plate amplifier solution like the KG-5230 from Madisound?
      Free support for loudspeaker projects, sourcing OEM speaker building supplies, and passive crossover design. We sell raw speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, subwoofer, midrange drivers, full range drivers), speaker kits, amplifiers, capacitors, resistors, and inductors.





      Bing
      Bing

      Comment

      • ThomasW
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 10934

        #4
        Bing

        The only plate amp I'd recommend is the one SVS is using

        Here's a link to the former suppliers site.



        Try following the instructions on the page. Here's link to the factory he talk about.



        If that doesn't work out then email SVS and see if they will sell you one themselves.

        This website is for sale! svsubwoofers.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, svsubwoofers.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!


        Also I'm slightly leary of the KG amps in general. They don't get very good "press" on the more hardcore audio forums, and then there's this item on one of their amps.






        theAudioWorx
        Klone-Audio

        IB subwoofer FAQ page


        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

        Comment

        • Bing Fung
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Aug 2000
          • 6521

          #5
          Thanks Thomas, I have sent an e-mail to Tom and Ron.

          What about component amps like the fitek (which also don't like to be bridged into one sub) or a Carver?




          Bing
          Bing

          Comment

          • Lexman
            Super Senior Member
            • Jun 2000
            • 1777

            #6
            Oh yeah, word of advice, don't try and run 4 ohm speakers after bridging! Doing this effectively changes the load to something more like 2 ohms! The way you get additional power is the amp makes itself think it's seeing a 4 ohm load. That is how you achieve more watts than the amp can produce at 8 ohms. At least, that's the gist of what I have heard and read.

            I flat out wouldn't recommend bridging to begin with, especially NOT with a 4 ohm load.

            Lex





            <A HREF="http://www.catcables.com" <IMG SRC="http://www.htguide.com/lexman/other/sm_logo.gif"

            Comment

            • John Holmes
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 2703

              #7
              Lex,
              This 4ohm load has been a concern of mine for some time. My amp has boast that it will handle from 8ohm to infinity. But logic tells me that everything has it's limit. Because my amp is only rated at 60wpc @4ohm, I have not to date tried a 4ohm bridge. I have however done an 8ohm bridge which it did well with. Am I just being paranoid? If the manufacturer says it can do it should I trust that?




              "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
              "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

              Comment

              • ThomasW
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 10934

                #8
                Bing

                Read this post


                It appears RCM is accepting orders from individuals.

                I suggest avoiding plate amps altogether. With the exception of the RCM unit they are usually quite poorly made.

                Separate "component" amps are really the best solution. They are more useful for most applications. Their single drawback is not having an a built-in crossover.

                Low buck power amps (semi-pro and pro), all use fan cooling. The fan is cheaper to mfgr than good heatsinks. So one must be willing to relocate the amps to a closet, or live with the fan noise. Other than this one issue, these amps are the best "bang for buck" for sub use.

                Avoid amps that don't "like" to be bridged if bridging is your intent. The easiest solution would probably be to buy a monoblock.

                If you haven't already bought the infinity driver, then change to a DVC unit. This will make life much easier.


                John H

                8 ohms to infinity usually means, 8 ohms and HIGHER not lower. The very nature of this statement is somewhat suspect




                theAudioWorx
                Klone-Audio

                IB subwoofer FAQ page


                "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                Comment

                • Patrick Sun
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 1380

                  #9
                  Thomas, I have a question on putting an amp in a closet (if the fan noise is a problem: should I worry about airflow if there is no ventilation in a closet (except that the bottom of the door)? I can hide my yet-to-arrive new amp in the closet that is right behind my Sunosub, but was wondering about the lack of ventilation (but it's about - guessing - a 20"x20"x80" enclosure).

                  Otherwise, I go down one door and will put the amp in the laundry room (but it'll be a shame to hide my new purty amp...).




                  PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs
                  PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10934

                    #10
                    Patrick

                    Putting an amp in a closet usually isn't a problem. Especially if you can leave the door slightly ajar. Now if the closet is packed with clothing, it's a different story

                    With the semi-pro and pro fan cooled amps, heat generally isn't an issue for HT use. They just aren't driven all that hard.




                    theAudioWorx
                    Klone-Audio

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • Patrick Sun
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Aug 2000
                      • 1380

                      #11
                      Thomas, thanks, it's a totally empty closet (well, if I have to move the Sunosub to get something out of it, it's pretty inconvenient). I think I'll put the amp on top of a milk crate if I put it inside a closet. I actually do keep the door ajar because I get a buzz if I keep it closed.

                      I must think about putting some rollers on the Sunosub I...

                      Has anyone put rollers on the legs of their sonosubs for use on carpeted floors?

                      Ooops, Bing, sorry about hi-jacking your thread.




                      PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs
                      PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs

                      Comment

                      • ThomasW
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 10934

                        #12
                        Patrick

                        I have ALL the amps for my HT in a dedicated closet. I bought an in-line fan, and some flexible air duct, 8" dia. At the top of the closet I installed what is actually a wall grill for furnace outlet, but am using as the cosmetic cover for the outlet to the fan. The flexible air duct is in the attic and the fan is on the end of the run. Several feet from the closet. I installed a wall switch and turn it on when I power up the amps.

                        Now this was a necessity for me because the primary amps for the ESLs (2 Aragon 8008BB's) are of a class "A" topology so they are HOT. At idle they draw 1200 watts each. :B




                        theAudioWorx
                        Klone-Audio

                        IB subwoofer FAQ page


                        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                        Comment

                        • Lexman
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Jun 2000
                          • 1777

                          #13
                          John, wise decision. No way would I bridge with a 4 ohm load. Their are only a very few amps designed to handle a 2 ohm load. One is the Levinson #33 I believe.

                          Great thread guys and very active!

                          Lex





                          <A HREF="http://www.catcables.com" <IMG SRC="http://www.htguide.com/lexman/other/sm_logo.gif"

                          Comment

                          • Bing Fung
                            Ultra Senior Member
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 6521

                            #14
                            That's good news on that link Thomas!

                            Yes, I have purchased the driver already. I'm in a hard place that I have no more room on my rack for another amp, and thought of the plate solution. I though I could use the Luxman to power the sub, but after listening to my system with out the Lux Bi-amping my mains, I found I could not live with out it in my lineup, so it will maintain it's current duty.

                            I will have look around e-pay to see what component amps are available. I hear the Carver's are good for this duty. Even if I'm to only use one channel.

                            The plate solution would fit my current state the best, but it does limit my future options.

                            Pat, no highjacking here, just rolling along :W




                            Bing
                            Bing

                            Comment

                            • John Holmes
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 2703

                              #15
                              Thanks ThomasW and Lex.

                              It seamed strange to me that the manual would make such a statement right after " The Fosgate Audionics 560 High Current Amp will handle any load from 8 to 1ohm" It just didn't add up. I do love the sound of this amp but no 4ohm bi-amp for me!

                              Thanks again guys!




                              "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
                              "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

                              Comment

                              • Andrew Pratt
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Aug 2000
                                • 16507

                                #16
                                As much as I agree that a dedicated "real" amp would be the best if you're interested in a plate amp I understand Adrie (Avatar) is in the process of releasing a 300 watt plate amp. No idea of cost but it might be worth emailing Dan to find out the specs on it. If Dan's had a hand in it you know it must cut the mustard.




                                Comment

                                • Andrew Pratt
                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 16507

                                  #17
                                  opps my first double post




                                  Comment

                                  • Patrick Sun
                                    Super Senior Member
                                    • Aug 2000
                                    • 1380

                                    #18
                                    Over at the HTT, Dan Wiggins said it was a 250W plate amp they were getting ready to roll out, but still ample for most applications.




                                    PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs
                                    PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs

                                    Comment

                                    • Bing Fung
                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                      • Aug 2000
                                      • 6521

                                      #19
                                      Thank for the leads guys... I didn't have much luck finding an amp on Ebay. Most are out of my price range. and some you can tell are going to go for more than they are worth.




                                      Bing
                                      Bing

                                      Comment

                                      • ThomasW
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 10934

                                        #20
                                        Bing

                                        Recheck that link to HTF. He received the RCM amp from Germany and the total cost was $250




                                        theAudioWorx
                                        Klone-Audio

                                        IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                        Comment

                                        • DanWiggins
                                          Junior Member
                                          • Sep 2000
                                          • 6

                                          #21
                                          Andrew/Patrick,

                                          The amp is 250W into 4 ohms, at 0.1% THD. S/N is greater than 105 dB @ rated output. Detachable power cord, variable XO frequency (40 to 160 Hz), variable phase (0 to 180 degrees), variable gain (30 dB window). High/low level inputs and outputs (passive XOs on the outputs). Basic plate amp, heat sink, black anodized.

                                          They're being built right now; we should have the run in roughly 8 weeks, after shipping. Cost is pegged at under $200; probably between $170 and $180, actually.

                                          Dan Wiggins
                                          Adire Audio

                                          Comment

                                          • ThomasW
                                            Moderator Emeritus
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 10934

                                            #22
                                            Hey! Who was that masked man? 8)




                                            theAudioWorx
                                            Klone-Audio

                                            IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                            Comment

                                            • Lexman
                                              Super Senior Member
                                              • Jun 2000
                                              • 1777

                                              #23
                                              Yeah, they will let anybody into this place, huh? :? Lol.

                                              Welcome to HTGuide.com Dan! :B

                                              Lex





                                              <A HREF="http://www.catcables.com" <IMG SRC="http://www.htguide.com/lexman/other/sm_logo.gif"

                                              Comment

                                              • Bing Fung
                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                • Aug 2000
                                                • 6521

                                                #24
                                                Thanks Dan, would you have preliminary dimemsions I could plan for? ie, mounting depth, cut out width & height.

                                                Thanks again,




                                                Bing
                                                Bing

                                                Comment

                                                • Patrick Sun
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 1380

                                                  #25
                                                  Hey Hey Hey! DanW is in da house! Welcome to the HTG! Thanks for the info on the plate amp (I almost wish I knew this before I bought the amp I have coming in anytime now...)




                                                  PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs
                                                  PatCave; HT Pix;Gear;DIY Projects;DVDs; LDs

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Bing Fung
                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                    • 6521

                                                    #26
                                                    Anyone have a feel for the M1 Monoblocks made by Soundstream? Apperently it is the same amplifier that is made for Marantz as the MA 700 mono block.

                                                    300w @4ohms ,0.05db THD 20Hz-20 kHz, 113db s/n ratio.




                                                    Bing
                                                    Bing

                                                    Comment

                                                    • JohanK
                                                      Member
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 49

                                                      #27
                                                      Bing, I use the Madisound KG5230 plate amp with good results. It drives two 12" Eclipse drivers run in parallel for a 3 ohm nominal load (isobarik push-pull sub).

                                                      Are the M1 monoblocks on Soundstream's website? Thanx.




                                                      Comment

                                                      • Bing Fung
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                        • 6521

                                                        #28
                                                        No they are not on Soundstream's site. It's kinda strange for my friend has this THX certified Soundstream stereo amp that is 1/2-1/4 rack height, has some huge power rating like 1000W mono into 2 ohms.

                                                        here is a photo of the M1




                                                        Bing
                                                        Bing

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