Sub Setttings - Lack of Bass

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  • Club1820
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 269

    Sub Setttings - Lack of Bass

    Hello. I have a couple of questions regarding the settings for the sub on the 1068 pre/pro.

    I currently have my M&K VX-860 250 watt sub volume level set at Reference and also set to bypass its crossover settings in favor of the pre/pro. On the 1068 I have the crossover set at 80 for all the speakers and the speakers also set to small. All the speaker levels are also calibrated to the same level (sub is about 10dBs higher) via the RS SPL meter.

    Well, I just dont seem to get the "rattle" I am expecting when watching movies. The bass output is fine with music. The sub produces tight, clean bass and it blends very well with the main speakers. It rattles the house at volume 70 and higher. But no such luck when watching movies. ?????

    So I then experimented and raised the Sub level temporarily via the 1068 remote to "Max" while watching Superman Returns. Boom, there it was! My sofa shook in the opening scence when Superman arrived!

    I guess the easy answer would be - just set the Sub to "Max". But I figure something else must be going on. I'm pretty sure the Room has something to do with it since I just finished my basement and I dont have any room treatments up just yet. But like I said, it plays fine with music.

    So basically I am just wondering if my current settings on the sub & 1068 are fine or should I be setting them up differently?

    Thanks in advance!
    Rotel 1068, Rotel 1060, Rotel 1055, Rotel 1095, Rotel 956, Rotel RLC-1040, M&K VX-860 Sub, Whatmough M30s, Squeezebox 3
  • Kevin D
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Oct 2002
    • 4601

    #2
    Just set your Dolby Digital and DTS modes higher. You might try different placement of the sub as those certain frequencies you're looking for in the movies might be getting nulled out. But if +10 on the movie modes sounds good to you, don't fret it.

    Kevin D.

    Comment

    • Club1820
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2006
      • 269

      #3
      Thanks Kevin.

      Yes, I guess I can do that. Set the level higher for those modes. I just wanted to make sure I set everything up right but I guess your saying I did. Yes, I will at some point move the sub around to see what affect that has.

      So what is "normal"? If the sub is set to zero, should you be feeling it when watching movies and there are explosions, etc.? Or is it only that way if you set it up that way with a higher level on the sub? Or have a small room and large sub? Etc, Etc. ?

      Am I just a Bass Fiend?

      Thanks.
      Rotel 1068, Rotel 1060, Rotel 1055, Rotel 1095, Rotel 956, Rotel RLC-1040, M&K VX-860 Sub, Whatmough M30s, Squeezebox 3

      Comment

      • Kevin D
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Oct 2002
        • 4601

        #4
        I just checked out your sub, interesting design. Most of the small enclosure subs I've seen require large amounts of power to produce the same output as a larger enclosure. I question if the 250 watts is enough for what you are trying to accomplish. While I'm sure it sounds wonderful for music, I don't think it will have enough for the jaw-dropping LFE tracks. Look at the similar Velodyne DD12; same dimensions and driver size but 1250 watts of power.

        The 'Dynamic Headroom Maximizer Circuit' is going to limit the sub to what it's capable of and I think you're trying to push it past this point. It's basically going to hit a brick wall and stop producing more output (which is better the more distorted output). I doubt increasing the level above where the SPL meter says to put it is giving you more output, just a higher output relative to the other channels. While this will give you the low-end output you are looking for at lower levels, it's probably messing up the upper frequency blending you experience with music.

        Any chance you could test a different type of sub to check it's output? I highly recommend the SVS line of subs, and I think they still offer a trial period (if you can find one to fit in with your room).

        Kevin D.

        Comment

        • Iggurk
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2006
          • 114

          #5
          Hi!

          did you try to play with phase setting?

          Sub location is very important to, first thing to do it's to move it to diferent locations.

          Yves

          Comment

          • focus
            Member
            • Mar 2006
            • 39

            #6
            What kind walls do you have, some walls absorbes bass. And if so i would go for another sub. In my opnion two subs are always better than one very powerful.

            Comment

            • Club1820
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2006
              • 269

              #7
              Originally posted by Iggurk
              did you try to play with phase setting? Yves
              Yes, I used the RS SPL meter with the AVIA disc and tested the phase on the sub. I didnt seem to get any change in level no matter what phase setting I had. ??? Maybe 1-2 dB difference in the setting. Can this be right?

              I did this rather quickly at night so I will have to test it again but I think the phase setting is correct.

              Thanks.
              Rotel 1068, Rotel 1060, Rotel 1055, Rotel 1095, Rotel 956, Rotel RLC-1040, M&K VX-860 Sub, Whatmough M30s, Squeezebox 3

              Comment

              • Club1820
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 269

                #8
                Originally posted by focus
                What kind walls do you have, some walls absorbes bass. And if so i would go for another sub. In my opnion two subs are always better than one very powerful.
                I have newly installed Drywall with R13 insulation behind them.

                I've read different opinions on the net regarding 1 or 2 subs. Some dont recommend 2 subs but instead getting a larger, more powerful sub. Either way - both options for me would have to wait right now.

                Funds are kinda low right now due to the construction in my basement and the outlay for my system, including a Rotel RX-1052 Receiver and RC-1055 CD Changer for the living room. Apart from a full Rotel System for the basement.

                I still think that the room and perhaps location of the sub has alot to do with it. This is going to be a very slow process for me (testing, setting up everything just right). So hopefully in the end, after some room treatments, etc. It will sound good. ? :T

                Thanks for your help.
                Rotel 1068, Rotel 1060, Rotel 1055, Rotel 1095, Rotel 956, Rotel RLC-1040, M&K VX-860 Sub, Whatmough M30s, Squeezebox 3

                Comment

                • Club1820
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 269

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kevin D
                  I just checked out your sub, interesting design. Most of the small enclosure subs I've seen require large amounts of power to produce the same output as a larger enclosure. I question if the 250 watts is enough for what you are trying to accomplish. While I'm sure it sounds wonderful for music, I don't think it will have enough for the jaw-dropping LFE tracks. Look at the similar Velodyne DD12; same dimensions and driver size but 1250 watts of power.

                  The 'Dynamic Headroom Maximizer Circuit' is going to limit the sub to what it's capable of and I think you're trying to push it past this point. It's basically going to hit a brick wall and stop producing more output (which is better the more distorted output). I doubt increasing the level above where the SPL meter says to put it is giving you more output, just a higher output relative to the other channels. While this will give you the low-end output you are looking for at lower levels, it's probably messing up the upper frequency blending you experience with music.

                  Any chance you could test a different type of sub to check it's output? I highly recommend the SVS line of subs, and I think they still offer a trial period (if you can find one to fit in with your room).

                  Kevin D.
                  Kevin, thanks for taking that extra step and looking into my sub.

                  My understanding of the M&K Subs is that they rate the power output conservatively and they probably produce more than their stated output. At least this is what I have read around the net. ? But yeah, its no where near 1250 watts!

                  When I had the sub set to Max, I didnt notice any dimished blending with the other speakers and the upper frequencies. Although not sure if this would be noticeable so much with movies as it would be with music unless its just outright terrible. ?

                  Yes, alot of forum members seem to like and have SVS subs. But like I mentioned on my previous post, outlaying anything right now would be rather difficult. So I will just continue to tweak, and work with the room and sub to hopefully find what I am looking for. Until then, as you suggested - I will just raise the sub settings on DTS & DD.

                  Thanks again.
                  Rotel 1068, Rotel 1060, Rotel 1055, Rotel 1095, Rotel 956, Rotel RLC-1040, M&K VX-860 Sub, Whatmough M30s, Squeezebox 3

                  Comment

                  • Kevin D
                    Ultra Senior Member
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 4601

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Club1820
                    Until then, as you suggested - I will just raise the sub settings on DTS & DD.

                    Thanks again.
                    While I can sit her and tell you all day how it 'should' be.. It sounds to me like your sub sounds good for music and movies with the tweak on the mode levels. I wouldn't be too concerned and just enjoy it!

                    Kevin D.

                    Comment

                    • Club1820
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 269

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Kevin D
                      I wouldn't be too concerned and just enjoy it! Kevin D.
                      Well, that's the "Plan" for now. But I tend to be Obsessive about things and it will bug me till I get it right! But since I have two very small rugrats that dont really offer me alot of free time, it will have to do for the time being.

                      Believe me, right now its a hell of a lot better that being without any kind of home theatre/surround sound for about 7 years!!!

                      Thanks for all the help everyone! :T
                      Rotel 1068, Rotel 1060, Rotel 1055, Rotel 1095, Rotel 956, Rotel RLC-1040, M&K VX-860 Sub, Whatmough M30s, Squeezebox 3

                      Comment

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