Rotel Announces RSX-1058 Receiver

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  • greggz
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2002
    • 317

    Rotel Announces RSX-1058 Receiver

    North Reading, MA—January 2007—Rotel Electronics, well-known for their affordable high-end audio and home theater components, plans to introduce a new five-channel surround-sound receiver at CES 2007 that offers a home-entertainment solution to those who demand a high level of performance and functionality without the expense of separate, multi-component home theater and multiroom audio systems.

    The RSX-1058 features 5x75 watts per channel, a high-performance video scaler for outstanding picture quality, four HDMI connections and the ability to play music simultaneously in four different rooms of the house.

    According to Mike Bartlett, Rotel’s Vice President and General Manager, “The new RSX-1058 is based on the proven design platform of the highly successful RSX-1057 receiver. The introduction of the RSX-1058 adds yet another level of sophistication and functionality, which makes it the perfect one-solution receiver for a whole-house entertainment system.”

    Important features integrated into the RSX-1058 include a high-performance video scaler that upsamples and optimizes all video sources (including, satellite, cable VCR and DVD players) for startlingly lifelike picture quality at up to 1080i resolution. Four HDMI inputs and one HDMI output provide advanced connections for newer source components and TV monitors.

    The RSX-1058 also has multiroom audio capability for homeowners who want to add music to up to four rooms of the house. Optional keypads and a power supply are available to remotely access the most used features of a FM Tuner, CD player, or other source component. Volume, mute, and on/off can also be controlled from anywhere in the house. In addition, the RSX-1058 incorporates a RS-232 interface to provide for software updates or remote computer control of the system in custom installation applications. An IR input can also be used as an alternative control option.

    Availability: First Quarter 2007
    Suggested Retail Price: $1999.00
    Gregg

    Our Home Theater
  • shadow 8
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2004
    • 153

    #2
    IMO, waaay overpriced. Saw an upcoming Sherwood Newcastle receiver with seven channels of 100 wpc, Four HDMI 3 inputs, and Audessey EQ for $1500 retail.

    Comment

    • Andrew M Ward
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2005
      • 717

      #3
      Originally posted by shadow 8
      IMO, waaay overpriced. Saw an upcoming Sherwood Newcastle receiver with seven channels of 100 wpc, Four HDMI 3 inputs, and Audessey EQ for $1500 retail.

      So because a Sherwood reciever is $1500 that makes the Rotel over priced?
      I'm confused? They are two very different companies with very different product requirements...

      Comment

      • scanido
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2006
        • 548

        #4
        I think it's overpriced as well for what you get. I was hoping Rotel would take the leap and have HDMI 1.3 to process all the new HD formats. Here's hoping the processors take a larger leap forward in technology!

        Comment

        • shadow 8
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2004
          • 153

          #5
          Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
          So because a Sherwood reciever is $1500 that makes the Rotel over priced?
          I'm confused? They are two very different companies with very different product requirements...
          Hardly very different companies. Sherwood Newcastle makes excellent separate components and good receivers and is a direct competiitor with Rotel. Rotel increased the price of the 1057 over 50% to add more video quality with the same audio amplification. As I noted in another thread, if you want seven channels of amplification on a Rotel receiver you are going to be looking at over $2500, which is the logical thing to do since the new audio codecs have seven channels and I assume adding these codecs is Rotel's justification for this huge price jump. The new NAD receiver with around 85 wpc for seven channels is going to sell for $2200. Five channels at $2000 is waaaaayyy too much money.

          Comment

          • Andrew M Ward
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2005
            • 717

            #6
            Originally posted by shadow 8
            Hardly very different companies. Sherwood Newcastle makes excellent separate components and good receivers and is a direct competiitor with Rotel. Rotel increased the price of the 1057 over 50% to add more video quality with the same audio amplification. As I noted in another thread, if you want seven channels of amplification on a Rotel receiver you are going to be looking at over $2500, which is the logical thing to do since the new audio codecs have seven channels and I assume adding these codecs is Rotel's justification for this huge price jump. The new NAD receiver with around 85 wpc for seven channels is going to sell for $2200. Five channels at $2000 is waaaaayyy too much money.
            Have you ever actually listeed to a Sherwood receiver?

            Comment

            • shadow 8
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2004
              • 153

              #7
              Yes I have. Do you sell Rotel as a dealer? You seem to accept w/o question Rotel's big price increase while discounting the competition. If that attitude is reflected by Rotel, they will lose a lot of customers to aggresive competitors who will offer equal or better products at a lower price. BTW I own a 1056 and 1095 and I am disappointed in this development since I was looking forward to the 1058, but not at the price being asked.
              Last edited by shadow 8; 11 January 2007, 22:50 Thursday.

              Comment

              • Andrew M Ward
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2005
                • 717

                #8
                Originally posted by shadow 8
                Yes I have. Do you sell Rotel as a dealer?

                Well,
                if you've actually listened to a Sherwood Reciever and like it, that sounds like what you should buy...

                BTW: I'm not a Rotel dealer, but I play one on TV

                anyway
                Some people really like how Rotel units sound and base a large percentage of their buying decision on sound quality and are willing to pay for that difference...

                As I've said before on this forum:
                Rotel has built a brand over 40 years, that has consistantly "Done less and cost more" simply based on audio performance... and succeeded

                8)

                Comment

                • calmac
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2005
                  • 110

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                  Well,
                  if you've actually listened to a Sherwood Reciever and like it, that sounds like what you should buy...

                  BTW: I'm not a Rotel dealer, but I play one on TV

                  anyway
                  Some people really like how Rotel units sound and base a large percentage of their buying decision on sound quality and are willing to pay for that difference...

                  As I've said before on this forum:
                  Rotel has built a brand over 40 years, that has consistantly "Done less and cost more" simply based on audio performance... and succeeded

                  8)
                  I think Andrew's point is very valid.Is Sherwood really as good in sound quality terms as Rotel?.The 1058 may well show audio performance improvements over the 1057 , no one knows at this point.The 1057 and 1058 are slated to run concurrently so consumers will still have choice.Unless you have a large room 7.1 is imo a waste of time and money and if you do have a large room you will probably need something more powerful to drive the main speakers anyway and so imo Rotel's decision to continue down the 5.1 line with it's receivers makes perfect sense if high sound quality is your main goal.
                  Gordon

                  Comment

                  • shadow 8
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 153

                    #10
                    There is no difference in audio performance between the 1056, 57 and 58 as far as I know. No digital amps, no new design preamp. It has a new video scaler and HDMI imputs.

                    Comment

                    • Kevin D
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 4601

                      #11
                      Originally posted by shadow 8
                      There is no difference in audio performance between the 1056, 57 and 58 as far as I know. No digital amps, no new design preamp. It has a new video scaler and HDMI imputs.
                      1058 does have a new DSP chip from TI.

                      Kevin D.

                      Comment

                      • slowrey
                        Member
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 53

                        #12
                        Not enough features for me to upgrade from an RSX-1057. I wish it did have HDMI 1.3 and had more features for the $1000 upcharge.
                        ____

                        Sean

                        Comment

                        • Andrew M Ward
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 717

                          #13
                          Originally posted by shadow 8
                          Hardly very different companies. Sherwood Newcastle makes excellent separate components and good receivers and is a direct competiitor with Rotel.
                          I tend to disagree,
                          Sherwood products can be purchased "on-line" from all kinds of places and they target a different customer for the majority of their sales.

                          Sherwood makes separates (true) but it's hardly their focus and they don't make their own amplifiers, they OEM them elsewhere...Two different companies with a completely different market focus

                          And if you check the dealer base, I don't believe Sherwood and Rotel sit on the same showroom or share one dealer in the USA...

                          I do understand completely that you're not going to buy a Rotel and that you're looking at buying a Sherwood, but I don't think you're a Rotel customer (generally speaking) because if you want "all the features" and blow-out prices and on-line availability as well as the fact that Rotel will go out of their way in the over expense of building their own amplifier section at the expense of "high profile features" and that is exactly the opposite of what Sherwood is doing

                          The good news is there’s something for everybody!

                          Comment

                          • calmac
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2005
                            • 110

                            #14
                            Originally posted by shadow 8
                            There is no difference in audio performance between the 1056, 57 and 58 as far as I know. No digital amps, no new design preamp. It has a new video scaler and HDMI imputs.
                            As no one has heard the 1058 it is impossible to know if there is any sound quality difference between it and the 1057 however it is conceivable that the 1058 uses different of better passive and active components it it's amp stages which would result in an improvement in sound quality.Just because the unit uses conventional amp technology rather than 'digital' doesn't mean that it won't have improved sound quality over it's predecessors.
                            Now as Kevin has pointed out the 1058 is using an upgraded processor over the 56/57 so this may improve sound quality and flexibility as with the 1066/1068.
                            As Andrew has pointed out Rotel's focus is on providing the best sound quality vs value for money with only ,in their eyes , the necessary connectivity, other companies are more focussed on providing extreme connectivity and features but this is usually at the expense of the quality of internal components and therefore sound quality .You pays your money ........ ect however for me sound and image quality will always be paramount and that's why on a restricted budget Rotel makes the most sense for me.
                            Gordon

                            Comment

                            • shadow 8
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 153

                              #15
                              We will see how good the 1058 will be but its too expensive for an entry level receiver IMO.
                              Last edited by shadow 8; 13 January 2007, 13:25 Saturday.

                              Comment

                              • Elvis
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2005
                                • 106

                                #16
                                Yikes,has the Rotel gang lost their mind?They were losing ground quickly as others far surpassed the advantage the 1056/7 had.Those units were ok at about $1100,to double that is pure crazy,glad I'm not a stock holder,or future buyer.I owned a few Rotel pcs. 1056/1068/1075/1095,they are almost worth their used prices,max.There are so many others that surpassed them a year or so ago that I moved on,I'm sure at these robbery prices more will.There is a long list of companies offering MUCH more at WAY less.Bye Rotel,nice to know you.

                                Comment

                                • calmac
                                  Senior Member
                                  • May 2005
                                  • 110

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Elvis
                                  Yikes,has the Rotel gang lost their mind?They were losing ground quickly as others far surpassed the advantage the 1056/7 had.Those units were ok at about $1100,to double that is pure crazy,glad I'm not a stock holder,or future buyer.I owned a few Rotel pcs. 1056/1068/1075/1095,they are almost worth their used prices,max.There are so many others that surpassed them a year or so ago that I moved on,I'm sure at these robbery prices more will.There is a long list of companies offering MUCH more at WAY less.Bye Rotel,nice to know you.
                                  What utter nonsense , there are many companies offering lots of gimmicks ( more flashing lights and nobs ) but few companies offer anything like the sound quality for the money that Rotel do. Elvis perhaps the outpourings of the mass marketeers are better suited to your requirements but if you prize real sound quality at a reasonable price then your comments don't hold water.
                                  As for The Rotel only being worth it's second hand value then you must be listening to a different Rotel from me or have a very skewed perspective, because I hear very little that compares for the money.

                                  Comment

                                  • Elvis
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2005
                                    • 106

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by calmac
                                    What utter nonsense , there are many companies offering lots of gimmicks ( more flashing lights and nobs ) but few companies offer anything like the sound quality for the money that Rotel do. Elvis perhaps the outpourings of the mass marketeers are better suited to your requirements but if you prize real sound quality at a reasonable price then your comments don't hold water.
                                    As for The Rotel only being worth it's second hand value then you must be listening to a different Rotel from me or have a very skewed perspective, because I hear very little that compares for the money.
                                    You sure assume lots of stuff.The set I have now has less lights or knobs than any Rotel made,if that matters.It is anything but mass market,Rotel would be considered mass mrkt compared,but I'm not here to advertise.You really should demo more gear but that's your biz.Since I've owned several Rotel pcs.which were good pcs. in their time I feel very well qualified to compare.There are so many units at $2k or less that are fantastic w/loads of power and performance I wonder if Rotel is thinkin' let em eat cake.Well,enjoy the $2k 105x,I consider it a non starter at $2k,we'll see.

                                    Comment

                                    • shadow 8
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Aug 2004
                                      • 153

                                      #19
                                      I continue to be enthusiastic about the sound quality of Rotel and I am confident that the 1058 will sound great. However, an entry level receiver at $2K seems too high, esp with only five channels of amplification and stiff competition at less money. I suspect the successor to the 1067 will equal or exceed $3k. I would rather they simply added HDMI capabilty for HD-DVD and Bluray, leave out the scaler and come in at around $1500.

                                      Comment

                                      • Kevin D
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2002
                                        • 4601

                                        #20
                                        Keep in mind the 1058 is not their entry level receiver, the 1057 is at $1300.

                                        If you don't need the additional features, don't get the 1058.

                                        Kevin D.

                                        Comment

                                        • DrJRapp
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Apr 2003
                                          • 1204

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Andrew M Ward
                                          So because a Sherwood reciever is $1500 that makes the Rotel over priced?
                                          I'm confused? They are two very different companies with very different product requirements...
                                          Perhaps, but both are considered competitors in the entry level high end by the market. Yes the Rotel is overpriced, especially since it uses last year's 1080i video processing. Dah....What were they thinking? That's one reason why this once staunch Rotel customer and supporter now buys Anthem and Sherwood.
                                          Jerry Rappaport

                                          Comment

                                          • RebelMan
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Mar 2005
                                            • 3139

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by DrJRapp
                                            Yes the Rotel is overpriced, especially since it uses last year's 1080i video processing. Dah....What were they thinking?
                                            Probably the same thing other companies were/are thinking when they learned that 1080p has confused the general market place and failed to demonstrate any significant or tangible advantages or better yet that very few displays from yesterday, today and tomorrow can handle or properly process a 1080p input not to mention the sheer lack of broadcast content.
                                            "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                            Comment

                                            • Nolan B
                                              Super Senior Member
                                              • Sep 2005
                                              • 1792

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by DrJRapp
                                              Perhaps, but both are considered competitors in the entry level high end by the market. Yes the Rotel is overpriced, especially since it uses last year's 1080i video processing. Dah....What were they thinking? That's one reason why this once staunch Rotel customer and supporter now buys Anthem and Sherwood.
                                              Let me first say its nice to see you post again in this forum. I do want to ask why you suport Anthem and Sherwood over Rotel. Is it mainly due to the video side as you make reference too? Personally I would never go the route of Anthem or sherwood for video...or rotel for that matter.

                                              Comment

                                              • calmac
                                                Senior Member
                                                • May 2005
                                                • 110

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Elvis
                                                You sure assume lots of stuff.The set I have now has less lights or knobs than any Rotel made,if that matters.It is anything but mass market,Rotel would be considered mass mrkt compared,but I'm not here to advertise.You really should demo more gear but that's your biz.Since I've owned several Rotel pcs.which were good pcs. in their time I feel very well qualified to compare.There are so many units at $2k or less that are fantastic w/loads of power and performance I wonder if Rotel is thinkin' let em eat cake.Well,enjoy the $2k 105x,I consider it a non starter at $2k,we'll see.
                                                I can only make comment based on what you have said .I am not a mind reader!
                                                I spent nearly 20 years in hi-end retail and 30 as an enthusiast , I have probably compared more equipment than most consumers would do in several life times.
                                                If your new unit is as you say then it's probably a lot more expensive than anything Rotel make and and so one would hope it offered better performance for the money.Rotel are at the top of the mass market price range but their product approach and ideology have more in common with hi-end manufacturers , there is much competition below $2000 that provides better connectivity options but imo none that provide the level of sound quality.
                                                I took issue with what appeared to be several cheap shots at Rotel , If I misunderstood your comments then you have my apologies however in your reply YOU are making assumptions about my experience , which as pointed out are incorrect. I don't want to get into a slanging match because it's all just oppinion but just give me the same as you allow yourself in terms of accepting that I might have at least as much and probably more hands on experience as you.
                                                Gordon

                                                Comment

                                                • DrJRapp
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Apr 2003
                                                  • 1204

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by RebelMan
                                                  Probably the same thing other companies were/are thinking when they learned that 1080p has confused the general market place and failed to demonstrate any significant or tangible advantages or better yet that very few displays from yesterday, today and tomorrow can handle or properly process a 1080p input not to mention the sheer lack of broadcast content.
                                                  James
                                                  I think you've been reading far too many magazine articles. I suggest you go visit a retailer. 1080P is happening NOW! I was at Best Buy yesterday, and I'll tell you that 1080p LCDs, and DLP rear projectors are the current hot sellers, at least here on the eastern end of the country. I bought my Samsung 61" RPDLP in December.

                                                  Agreed, lack of program content is an issue, but even 1080i deinterlaced to 1080P over a 1080P monitor or pj is a significant improvement over 1080i. True 1080P content from Bluray is glorious.

                                                  Yup.... Rotel messed up with this one. I project it will have a very short lifespan, perhaps even shorter than the 1 year of the 1057.
                                                  Jerry Rappaport

                                                  Comment

                                                  • DrJRapp
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                    • 1204

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Vancouver
                                                    Let me first say its nice to see you post again in this forum. I do want to ask why you suport Anthem and Sherwood over Rotel. Is it mainly due to the video side as you make reference too? Personally I would never go the route of Anthem or sherwood for video...or rotel for that matter.
                                                    Good question. First major reason: build quality. I've had far too many Rotel hardware failures. Secondly , mostly in favor of Anthem, superior sound quality. (In my own opinion the Sherwood sounds equivalent to Rotel, and sometimes better...for less $$). Third is the Video. Both Anthem and Sherwood have had HDMI switching and audio capabilities in their line (receivers and pre-pros) for nearly a year. Now that there are more than a few HDMI audio/video sources around, this is a significant factor. ( I have 4 myself) External switching devices, even several of those in expensive separate video processors, don't work well and require extensive duplication of wiring to integate the audio back into the pre-pro or avr. Anthem has had 1080P upscaling and multi-channel pcm audio decoding in both it's Statement series and the lower end AVM series for a year next month. As of the time of announcement the RSX 1058 could not decode multi-channel pcm audio. This may probably follow down the road with a "firmware" update so that Rotel can once again boast about their upgradeability, which historically has turned into nothing more than adding features that technologically could have been there from the start, and fixing firmware glitches.

                                                    This brings us to my final, and most decisive, Rotel objection; Rotel's upgrade policy, or better stated, policy of obsolecence. Rotel boasts upgradeability but fails to deliver. I like the fact that Anthem AVM20 owers could have the processor replaced to make the unit an AVM 30 and now it can be hardware upgraded again to a state of the art AVM50. Less than 6 months after I purchased my first Rotel pre-pro (the RSP 1066) it was left behind with the introduction of the 1068. Wait and see...the 1098 and 1068 will both be left behind once Rotel introduces their HDMI replacements. Rotel's excuse (that they already exercised with the 1066) will be that the internal processor couldn't handle the load and needed to be replaced. This MAY be acceptable to some at $1K, but not at $2K. I feel more secure spending $6700 on my Anthem Statement prepro, than I did spending "only" $3000 on a Rotel RSP 1098 knowing that for a modest fee Anthem will update my Statement D2 to HDMI 1.3 from 1.2 (even if it means a new processor chip) when the time comes and I won't have to purchase a whole new pre-pro.

                                                    The Sherwoods benefit by being cheap enough to just replace: Sherwood's 872 receiver with somewhat equivalent specs to the Rotel 1058, but with "better" 1080P upscaling will only list at $1K... their upper level 972 version with more HDMI switching and control options will list at $1500. In reality the Sherwood Newcastle line's pricing policy is realy more CE than Rotel's entry level Audio/Videophile, however, it's build quality and performance, along with the "elan" of an old time high end audiophile moniker puts it on par with Rotel.
                                                    Last edited by DrJRapp; 15 January 2007, 08:55 Monday.
                                                    Jerry Rappaport

                                                    Comment

                                                    • shadow 8
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Aug 2004
                                                      • 153

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Kevin D
                                                      Keep in mind the 1058 is not their entry level receiver, the 1057 is at $1300.

                                                      If you don't need the additional features, don't get the 1058.

                                                      Kevin D.
                                                      Problem is the 1058 cannot decode PCM audio streams from blu ray and HD-DVD, which is both incredible and unaccepatable for a new product in 2007. Its just a 1057 with a video scaler as far as I can see. Entry level receivers from the major companies can do this.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • RebelMan
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                        • 3139

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by DrJRapp
                                                        James
                                                        I think you've been reading far too many magazine articles. I suggest you go visit a retailer. 1080P is happening NOW! I was at Best Buy yesterday, and I'll tell you that 1080p LCDs, and DLP rear projectors are the current hot sellers, at least here on the eastern end of the country. I bought my Samsung 61" RPDLP in December.

                                                        Agreed, lack of program content is an issue, but even 1080i deinterlaced to 1080P over a 1080P monitor or pj is a significant improvement over 1080i. True 1080P content from Bluray is glorious.

                                                        Yup.... Rotel messed up with this one. I project it will have a very short lifespan, perhaps even shorter than the 1 year of the 1057.
                                                        Jerry you thought wrong. It’s not what I’ve been reading but what I have been hearing from companies like Hitachi, remember them? I suggest that you speak to the manufacturer directly. I don’t rely on second hand information from retail outlets like BB or CC that mostly depend on part time help and students looking for party funds. Electronic devices like the iPod and the PS3 are “happening” not 1080p. 1080p isn’t new it just hasn’t caught on in any major way. Any displays the retailers are touting as “1080p” is a marketing blitz to make happen what hasn’t happened and won’t happen for years to come.

                                                        The myriad of 1080p faces only adds to the confusion. Which 1080p will it be sir? 1080p/30 or 60 or 24 or 48 or 72? Considering that a staggering number of displays cannot take a 1080p input or they cannot display a FULL 1920x1080p output and you’ll agree 1080p hasn’t made any inroads. There isn’t a single display on the planet that I know of that has an issue with 1080i. 1080i is happening. Toshiba knows it too! That’s why they released their A1, A2 and XA1 in this format. Eventually the A20 and XA2 will make their appearance on showroom floors, but until the masses join the fray 1080p is an unrealized dream at this point.

                                                        I am hopeful that the XA2 will support 1080p/24 but Toshiba couldn’t promise me that it will only that it could. Time will tell but until then my trusty 1080i will do nicely.

                                                        Some BD content is very nice but the majority of the transfers have much to be desired. I have seen plenty of scaled DVD content from the same transfers that would embarrass a few BD players.

                                                        BTW, the 1057 is still around and will be for quite some time.
                                                        "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                                        Comment

                                                        • DrJRapp
                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                          • Apr 2003
                                                          • 1204

                                                          #29
                                                          James

                                                          I don't rely on either part time salespeople or marketing "experts" from any manufacturor for my opinions, I rely on my own eyes and ears and what I see where the rubber meets the road at the retail level is an awakening to 1080P HD that has been inspired in part by Bluray's advertising 1080P as the true HD. People are asking questions and people are buying the 1080P sets and forgoing the 720P (1080i) . I just (an hour ago) came from Sound Advice (Tweeter) where the manager, who is a long time friend (and about 30 times more knowledgable in this industry as you and I combined) admitted it was time that even he jump on the 1080P bandwagon. He's buying the same Samsung 6188 DLP set that I bought for my family room.

                                                          You can continue to be proponent of obsolete technologies, a naysayer and ostrich if you like....no skin off my back...meanwhile while you spend your time affirming your opinions with the marketing types at Hitachi...I'll enjoying the heck out of my 1080P in my FR and looking forward to JVCs upcoming LYCOS 1080P PJ for my dedicated theater. Like I said earlier, a good scaler that scales 1080i to 1080p does improve the image immensly.
                                                          Jerry Rappaport

                                                          Comment

                                                          • RebelMan
                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                            • 3139

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by DrJRapp
                                                            James

                                                            I don't rely on either part time salespeople or marketing "experts" from any manufacturor for my opinions, I rely on my own eyes and ears and what I see where the rubber meets the road at the retail level is an awakening to 1080P HD that has been inspired in part by Bluray's advertising 1080P as the true HD. People are asking questions and people are buying the 1080P sets and forgoing the 720P (1080i) . I just (an hour ago) came from Sound Advice (Tweeter) where the manager, who is a long time friend (and about 30 times more knowledgable in this industry as you and I combined) admitted it was time that even he jump on the 1080P bandwagon. He's buying the same Samsung 6188 DLP set that I bought for my family room.

                                                            You can continue to be proponent of obsolete technologies, a naysayer and ostrich if you like....no skin off my back...meanwhile while you spend your time affirming your opinions with the marketing types at Hitachi...I'll enjoying the heck out of my 1080P in my FR and looking forward to JVCs upcoming LYCOS 1080P PJ for my dedicated theater. Like I said earlier, a good scaler that scales 1080i to 1080p does improve the image immensly.

                                                            Speak for yourself Jerry, lol. I certainly hope that your salesman/manager is a knowledgeable AV guy, after all he makes his living convincing people of what they really don’t need. In any event, I don’t believe the feedback you are receiving from a couple of retailers is any indication of 1080p’s influence on the market. Have you forgotten what time of year it is? I think the upcoming SuperBowl game is the real driving force behind the surge in HDTV’s (as it is every year) and your trusty DISH-811 will be airing that content in 1080i not p. Any questions the majority of people have about 1080p comes from curiosity, at best, not geniuine interest. Face it, you and I are an exception to the rule when it comes to cutting edge technology. Most people could care a less about T2 in BD. Most people are interested in HD sports programing and/or games.

                                                            As much as I respect Samsung’s DLP’s, the HL-S6188 is still using a wobulated 960x1080 DLP chip, not a true 1920x1080 chip which has yet to be introduced in any RPTV. DLP’s do have the advantage of being cheap if making compromises to video performance is your thing. Fortunately, I know better than to subject my eyes to hotspots, off-axis drop outs, spinning wheels and judder artifacts. I’ve been spoiled by SED, a REAL 1080p HDTV. Until you’ve seen one for yourself you haven’t seen the promise land. My trusty Pioneer PDP-6070HD plasma display will have to do until then but I had (have) every intention of getting a SED until Toshiba postponed it, yet again! Blasted.

                                                            I advocate 1080p when it is implemented and present correctly. I don’t profess obsolescence but I do condone quality and maturation. I’m just not as delusional as some about the realities of what constitutes TRUE HD. When the right time comes to take the leap I will. 1080i is good enough and it avoids unecessary short stepping. As long as you are a happy tappy its all good. LOL.

                                                            Were probably digressing a bit, sorry mods. Nice to see you again Jerry!
                                                            "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Kevin D
                                                              Ultra Senior Member
                                                              • Oct 2002
                                                              • 4601

                                                              #31
                                                              While a perfectly appropriate conversation, it's getting a little too far off for Club Rotel. If everyone would like to continue discussing 1080p, I'll be glad to move the appropriate messages to a dedicated thread elsewhere in the message board.

                                                              Otherwise please start a new thread or move to PM's..

                                                              Thanks,

                                                              Kevin D.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Andrew M Ward
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Apr 2005
                                                                • 717

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by RebelMan
                                                                As much as I respect Samsung’s DLP’s, the HL-S6188 is still using a wobulated 960x1080 DLP chip, not a true 1920x1080 chip which has yet to be introduced in any RPTV. DLP’s do have the advantage of being cheap if making compromises to video performance is your thing. Fortunately, I know better than to subject my eyes to hotspots, off-axis drop outs, spinning wheels and judder artifacts.

                                                                I advocate 1080p when it is implemented and present correctly.

                                                                So true!

                                                                HDMI 1.3
                                                                &
                                                                1080P

                                                                Both largly misunderstood... and it just makes people angry when you "correct" them about these things, it's like an addiction to the hype...

                                                                CES was it's usual Buzz word factory self

                                                                Comment

                                                                • calmac
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • May 2005
                                                                  • 110

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by DrJRapp
                                                                  Good question. First major reason: build quality. I've had far too many Rotel hardware failures. Secondly , mostly in favor of Anthem, superior sound quality. (In my own opinion the Sherwood sounds equivalent to Rotel, and sometimes better...for less $$). Third is the Video. Both Anthem and Sherwood have had HDMI switching and audio capabilities in their line (receivers and pre-pros) for nearly a year. Now that there are more than a few HDMI audio/video sources around, this is a significant factor. ( I have 4 myself) External switching devices, even several of those in expensive separate video processors, don't work well and require extensive duplication of wiring to integate the audio back into the pre-pro or avr. Anthem has had 1080P upscaling and multi-channel pcm audio decoding in both it's Statement series and the lower end AVM series for a year next month. As of the time of announcement the RSX 1058 could not decode multi-channel pcm audio. This may probably follow down the road with a "firmware" update so that Rotel can once again boast about their upgradeability, which historically has turned into nothing more than adding features that technologically could have been there from the start, and fixing firmware glitches.

                                                                  This brings us to my final, and most decisive, Rotel objection; Rotel's upgrade policy, or better stated, policy of obsolecence. Rotel boasts upgradeability but fails to deliver. I like the fact that Anthem AVM20 owers could have the processor replaced to make the unit an AVM 30 and now it can be hardware upgraded again to a state of the art AVM50. Less than 6 months after I purchased my first Rotel pre-pro (the RSP 1066) it was left behind with the introduction of the 1068. Wait and see...the 1098 and 1068 will both be left behind once Rotel introduces their HDMI replacements. Rotel's excuse (that they already exercised with the 1066) will be that the internal processor couldn't handle the load and needed to be replaced. This MAY be acceptable to some at $1K, but not at $2K. I feel more secure spending $6700 on my Anthem Statement prepro, than I did spending "only" $3000 on a Rotel RSP 1098 knowing that for a modest fee Anthem will update my Statement D2 to HDMI 1.3 from 1.2 (even if it means a new processor chip) when the time comes and I won't have to purchase a whole new pre-pro.

                                                                  The Sherwoods benefit by being cheap enough to just replace: Sherwood's 872 receiver with somewhat equivalent specs to the Rotel 1058, but with "better" 1080P upscaling will only list at $1K... their upper level 972 version with more HDMI switching and control options will list at $1500. In reality the Sherwood Newcastle line's pricing policy is realy more CE than Rotel's entry level Audio/Videophile, however, it's build quality and performance, along with the "elan" of an old time high end audiophile moniker puts it on par with Rotel.
                                                                  Hi Jerry .I am sorry to hear that you now have such a negative opinion of Rotel as I used to follow your upgrading adventures in Rotel land with interest.
                                                                  While I can understand your frustration with Rotel's 'Non-upgradeable' upgradeable pre's I do think it unfair to compare Rotel's product to something that costs over twice the price.I have had a number of reliability issues with my Rotel gear too but I don't think they are any worse than comparable product like NAD and most of the issues have been easily resolved or the equipment replaced.
                                                                  Gordon

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • DrJRapp
                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                    • 1204

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by calmac
                                                                    I do think it unfair to compare Rotel's product to something that costs over twice the price.

                                                                    Gordon
                                                                    I don't hate Rotel....I've just learned there is much better gear out there for not too much more $$.

                                                                    True, other brands have their issues also, I'd be the last to deny that since it took 3 Anthem D2s to get one that is 100%. This is the cost of being an early adopter I suppose. However, recent experience with Rotel was far worse with 4 out of 10 pieces needing replacement or repair. None of these pieces were newly introduced products either, nor were they anywhere near as complex.

                                                                    You may have missed the point. The unit that costs twice the price is far more cost effective than one that needs to be totally replaced every two years. And, with that cost effectiveness comes, vastly superior audio performance, XLR and HDMI connectivity and a highly advanced video scaler that on it's own is worth the cost difference. All this in a nice integrated simple to use package, with comparable support. I understand that not everyone can afford (or want to) to invest twice as much, so for those people Rotel has an audience. If they start to push their pricing up too fast, they may well loose that audience.

                                                                    And, at last look an AVM30 cost about the same as a RSP1098, and the AVM50 with a highly advanced Gennum VXP 1080P video scaler only costs about 20% more.
                                                                    Jerry Rappaport

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Aussie Geoff
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Oct 2003
                                                                      • 1914

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Enough Please !

                                                                      Originally posted by Kevin D
                                                                      While a perfectly appropriate conversation, it's getting a little too far off for Club Rotel. If everyone would like to continue discussing 1080p, I'll be glad to move the appropriate messages to a dedicated thread elsewhere in the message board.

                                                                      Otherwise please start a new thread or move to PM's..

                                                                      Thanks,

                                                                      Kevin D.
                                                                      Kevin asked nicely... This is off topic. No more 1080p posts here so I am creating a new thread in the Home Theatre forum....

                                                                      Geoff

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Elvis
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Jan 2005
                                                                        • 106

                                                                        #36
                                                                        While Jerry has a good point I'll mention that even at the same price($2k 105x)there are lots of choices that simply leave it in the dust for power,sound,function.I don't know that's even up for debate,though some will.When you could get a 1056 at a little over $1k or a Denon at a little less then Rotel had an advantage(sound).But...if you double that price they can't compete with what's available,including several highly rated separates sets.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Nick M
                                                                          Ultra Senior Member
                                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                                          • 5959

                                                                          #37
                                                                          All my gear is Rotel right now, but I have to say that this thing is going to fall on it's face rather hard without the A/V processing capabilities for the next generation of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. I would also agree that the price is excessive. People will shop Sherwood Newcastle, and I guess I will be recommending SN to friends/family if this is all Rotel can come up with.

                                                                          Bigtime Bummer... :roll:
                                                                          ~Nick

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • calmac
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • May 2005
                                                                            • 110

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by DrJRapp
                                                                            I don't hate Rotel....I've just learned there is much better gear out there for not too much more $$.

                                                                            True, other brands have their issues also, I'd be the last to deny that since it took 3 Anthem D2s to get one that is 100%. This is the cost of being an early adopter I suppose. However, recent experience with Rotel was far worse with 4 out of 10 pieces needing replacement or repair. None of these pieces were newly introduced products either, nor were they anywhere near as complex.

                                                                            You may have missed the point. The unit that costs twice the price is far more cost effective than one that needs to be totally replaced every two years. And, with that cost effectiveness comes, vastly superior audio performance, XLR and HDMI connectivity and a highly advanced video scaler that on it's own is worth the cost difference. All this in a nice integrated simple to use package, with comparable support. I understand that not everyone can afford (or want to) to invest twice as much, so for those people Rotel has an audience. If they start to push their pricing up too fast, they may well loose that audience.

                                                                            And, at last look an AVM30 cost about the same as a RSP1098, and the AVM50 with a highly advanced Gennum VXP 1080P video scaler only costs about 20% more.
                                                                            Yep , apologies ,I did misunderstand what you were saying.I can see your point ,where the funds are available.When I started selling Rotel many years ago in the UK their marketing slogan was 'budget esoterica' or something similar and they did provide very good value for money however I have always been aware that there is much better around if the money is available.In Australia there is imo very little that compares in the price vs performance stakes.I have heard the latest crop of Denon, Yamaha and all the rest and while some do a great job in terms of connectivity and ht effects processing I don't feel that these more mainstream brands come close in terms of fidelity particularly with regard to 2 and multi-ch music playback.
                                                                            Oh well ,we will just have to see what the next few months bring and hope that reliability issues are a thing of the past.
                                                                            Best wishes ,
                                                                            Gordon

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • TommyV
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Feb 2007
                                                                              • 425

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Does anyone know if this new unit will recieve audio over the HDMI inputs?

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • shadow 8
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Aug 2004
                                                                                • 153

                                                                                #40
                                                                                No it will not if you are talking about PCM from the new hi def codecs.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Kevin D
                                                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                  • 4601

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by shadow 8
                                                                                  No it will not if you are talking about PCM from the new hi def codecs.
                                                                                  It's actually undetermined at this point. The first beta's Rotel NA received wouldn't do it, but the final version isn't finished yet.

                                                                                  Kevin D.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • TommyV
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Feb 2007
                                                                                    • 425

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    I personally wish they would have left the video scaling off and just added the extra inputs and audio capability. What video chip are they using anyway?

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • apodaca
                                                                                      Member
                                                                                      • Jun 2006
                                                                                      • 63

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Having HDMI inputs on a receiver without any audio capability is a waste period. As is having a scaler for only 1080i. With 1080i content already available, 1080p TVs being the future at least in sizes over 50 inches, and the fact that most of these dont deinterlace 1080i content correctly or do proper 3:2 pulldown a 1080p scaler is a logical product. Sometimes I wonder if Rotel engineers ever get out of their labs and see what is going on in the world. Sound quality is excellent but they are way way behind the times in terms of processors.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • shadow 8
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Aug 2004
                                                                                        • 153

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by apodaca
                                                                                        Having HDMI inputs on a receiver without any audio capability is a waste period. As is having a scaler for only 1080i. With 1080i content already available, 1080p TVs being the future at least in sizes over 50 inches, and the fact that most of these dont deinterlace 1080i content correctly or do proper 3:2 pulldown a 1080p scaler is a logical product. Sometimes I wonder if Rotel engineers ever get out of their labs and see what is going on in the world. Sound quality is excellent but they are way way behind the times in terms of processors.
                                                                                        Good points. We will see if Rotel makes the necessary changes in the 1058, but unlike some, I see no real chance they will add LPCM capability. Other companies have had this feature for around a year now, and the 1057 was brought out as a interim component with video HDMI capability only. Yet when they show the 1058 at CES it does not include HDMI audio support for hi def codecs. Incredible!

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • basementjack
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Dec 2004
                                                                                          • 191

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Guys, I love rotel as much as the next guy, and my 1056/1075 has served me well, but this whole thing reminds me of the Dolby ProLogic to Dolby Digital switchover -

                                                                                          nobody wants a pro logic only product these days.
                                                                                          no matter how 'good' it is, because it's no longer 'relevant'

                                                                                          This audio over HDMI is the exact same thing -
                                                                                          I already love my rotel - I'm not going to replace it because I want better analog, dolby, or DTS sound. I'm going to replace it becuase I want to hear the sound of the new formats.

                                                                                          So after I score an HD-DVD player and a PS3, I know I'll start to get the itch to use the full spectrum of sound they are both capable of.
                                                                                          I can only hope that I'm doing that in 2008 or 2009, and that those features will have made their way into a <$1500 'entry' level rotel.
                                                                                          If not they leave me no choice...

                                                                                          Comment

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